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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26839471 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
chromosoma
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April 27, 2014, 05:09:22 PM

So, should we say hello 300$ mark?=)
wachtwoord
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April 27, 2014, 05:10:36 PM

So Blitz (and others): do you have any better ideas? If so, I'm all ears Smiley

My idea is to consider the Metcalfe Value model (V ~ N2).  It makes no attempt to extrapolate into the future; however, it does show that the bitcoin market cap has grown in proportion to the square of what I refer to as the generalized user base over 4 years and over 1,000,000% change in price.

This should make Oda and Blitz happy, since this is not a predictive model (in time).  However, it provides support for Risto's exponential growth model because bitcoin's generalized user base has actually deviated less from true exponential growth than bitcoin's market cap has.  

FIGURE SNIPPED

The question of price then becomes one of adoption.  Will bitcoin continue to be useful to a growing number of humans?

Peter, I told you before I really really like your model. Mostly because this is about fundamentals and not price. When you value a company the stock price is not a factor at all (only for determining to buy or not). The main (and inherent) weakness with your model is that the only data we have to estimate the value of a number of transactions per day because you had to bootstrap this using Bitcoin's own price history. There's no other example in history to refer to.
akujin
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April 27, 2014, 05:11:12 PM


 Grin
darklight
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April 27, 2014, 05:12:48 PM

Yawn. It often dips on Sundays
p0peji
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April 27, 2014, 05:12:55 PM

So, should we say hello 300$ mark?=)

That would be awesome.
podyx
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April 27, 2014, 05:15:44 PM

What's the reason for the dumps?
p0peji
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April 27, 2014, 05:16:04 PM

What's the reason for the dumps?

China ban?
N12
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April 27, 2014, 05:17:58 PM

Okay I read the article:

* It starts with a whole section about the US IRS. There are more countries in the world than the US who tax it differently. So it's off to a poor start.
* It get's better, but only by only focusing on the next quarter (3 months). Therefore this article is a totally different animal than the trend line: the article is short term, the trend line is long term
* The section about miners is purely speculative and doesn't use any data. Do miners sell more coins then before? I don't know and neither does the author (he merely speculates)
* The author agrees the reasons the price is depressed now (more merchants) is bullish long term
* The same applies for the buying going on off exchange. The thing with a constant supply and rising demand is that int he end the supply runs out.
* The price range in the end is completely pulled from his ass. Tbh I would predict the exact same price range as him for one simple reason: the future is most likely to be same as the present. I once saw a study which concluded that if you predict the weather for tomorrow to be the same as today all year long you outperform all weather forecasts worldwide. The same applies here.

Thanks for the article though. An interesting read none-the-less.
It was just an example that I was recently impressed with. Merril Lynch and Goldman Sachs have written more elaborate analysis. I just want to express that linear regression is neither a fundamental or a technical really, it's just a statistic. Actual trendlines are the way to go if you want to show a trend, in my view, because they can be invalidated. Hell, moving averages work well too, and you can use two different moving averages for their crossovers.
podyx
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April 27, 2014, 05:22:04 PM

Maybe I should remove my 425 bids

Should I? Cool
KeyserSoze
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April 27, 2014, 05:23:47 PM

It looks really bad for you, this mocking contempt for maturity, realism, and rationality.

You're talking about Risto here? This is comedy gold!
bitcoinsrus
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April 27, 2014, 05:24:52 PM

bitgeek
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April 27, 2014, 05:25:28 PM

What's the reason for the dumps?

China ban?
Which ban? They are banning bitcoin every 2-3 weeks since December, get over it.
p0peji
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April 27, 2014, 05:25:34 PM

Wasnt there a certain some1 on here who said that we would not visit 435$ again?
p0peji
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April 27, 2014, 05:26:08 PM

What's the reason for the dumps?

China ban?
Which ban? They are banning bitcoin every 2-3 weeks since December, get over it.

The butthurt is strong in this one  Grin
Peter R
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April 27, 2014, 05:28:36 PM


We're still pretty early into the adoption (and usage), and it's too early to say with certainty if we can use that data unfiltered to estimate the user base (I know, I know, "popular addresses excluded").


It doesn't actually matter.  

What my model does is defines two abstract unmeasurable quantities called the "generalized user base," N and the "value of bitcoin", V.  I then define that these two variables satisfy the Metcalfe Model, V ~ N2.

Everything is exact so far and I haven't made any assumptions.  Then I ask: "is this model useful?"  

To answer this question, I look for observable proxies for both N and V that are measurable.   Reasonable proxies for N include "unique address used per day" and "transactions per day excluding popular addresses," but one could also consider subscribers at r/bitcoin or users at bitcointalk.com.  In fact the more proxies for N that show self-consistency, the stronger my model becomes.  A reasonable proxy for V is the market cap of bitcoin.  

It has already been shown the the model is useful, and that it is in fact reasonable to infer that bitcoin's value grows as the square of its generalized user base.  Realizing that I am using the terms "bitcoins value" and "generalized user base" in a technical way, the task moving forward in time is to find ways to estimate N that simultaneously support the Metcalfe model without stretching the common-sense meanings of the words "value" or "user base."  If we have to stretch common-sense too far, then the model will no longer be useful.  


This is how we make progress in theoretical physics.  A good example is Newton's Second Law: f = m a.  A lot people think that this is some discovery about a "fundamental law of the universe," but it is actually just a definition.  The net force acting on an object is defined by humans to be equal to the product of the object's mass and acceleration.  You could equally create another "law" that says f2 = m v, where v is velocity and f2 is "force 2.0."  Both are correct by definition, but only one is useful.  If you calculate the "force 2.0" of gravity, you'll get a complex mess; whereas the "force" of gravity is an elegant equation.
TeeBone
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April 27, 2014, 05:29:00 PM

Maybe I should remove my 425 bids

Should I? Cool

Yeah, move them to 402-412. It's going much lower eventually, but that's a safe bet.
oda.krell
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April 27, 2014, 05:31:54 PM

Alright... Let me be clear that I'm not gloating. I really wouldn't mind seeing a reversal either finally.

That said, the situation is starting to look pretty different from July 18 (which I guess some of us were hoping for)... Back then: bottom, sharp rally, sharp drop, found support, next rally. This time, it's more like: Bottom, quick rally, sharp drop, little support, fizzle out.

We need fresh fiat. Maybe I'll start walking around with a sandwich board in town that says 'Invest in Bitcoin now' :/
p0peji
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April 27, 2014, 05:32:06 PM

Maybe I should remove my 425 bids

Should I? Cool

For a quick buck maybe, but I would not hold on to them for too long.
wachtwoord
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April 27, 2014, 05:32:34 PM

What's the reason for the dumps?

China ban?
Which ban? They are banning bitcoin every 2-3 weeks since December, get over it.

The butthurt is strong in this one  Grin

Indeed: what ban?

wachtwoord
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April 27, 2014, 05:34:07 PM

Maybe I should remove my 425 bids

Should I? Cool

For a quick buck maybe, but I would not hold on to them for too long.

For a quick buck I don't know, but for long term hold it's perfect
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