Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

Wrong thread prof.  You remember when I used to bitch at you about researching the Bitcoin technology rather than concentrating exclusively on the market price?

Right. Never mind.

[JorgeStolfi]

To be honest, I'm not sure what function the "Camera dei Deputati" plays in the Italian government though.

Like the US House of Representatives (lower house of Parliament).

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Ivanhoe]

For anyone that can understand Italian, here is a youtube of a bitcoin hearing by the Italian government.  I think the live part is over, but this just happened today.  If it still says "live" then you will need to rewind and skip the history part to get to the hearing.

Diretta canale satellitare della Camera dei deputati:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5h-KfwC4aI

Can you write a summary for the non italians?

I'll try.  It's like 3 hours long. I missed it live, so I'll report back when I'm done watching it.

It starts out with explaining what bitcoin, the blockchain, mining, wallets, altcoins, open source, supply and demand, decentralized, the usual gold analogy, the usual negatives (silk road, volatility, and such), and etc.

One of the speakers talked a lot about volatility in price, and it sound like he is setting up a website to discuss possible solutions for addressing it.

The next speaker did a pretty good job of comparing the beginnings of the internet to bitcoin.  He discusses email and message passing, along with cryptography and the inability to counterfeit bitcoins.  So, of course, the next speaker talks about mining, mining pools, double spend, and the 51% attack.

One of the speakers urged that in Italy the less they try to regulate the better it will be.  He suggested that there will probably be regulation from other sources like the EU in general, and that Italy should not need to add anything.  To counter this someone that is running an exchange said this is music to his ears, but he still would like some guidance on how to handle KYC/AML in Italy.

It looks like this is "just gathering evidence for consideration of the government concerning future legislation," like JayJuanGee had guessed.  Overall, it sounds very positive to me.  The conversations are more like "bitcoin is comming, lets embrace it and see how the EU in general decides to regulate it."  I have the same warm and fuzzy feeling I had at the end of the senate hearings in 2013.

(It looks like whoever created the stream forgot to stop it, so it's just streaming garbage from the station that it was broadcast from and you can't rewind it.  Hopefully, someone will post a proper edit of it.)


TL;DR: It's basically the same as the senate hearings in 2013, but in Italy.  To be honest, I'm not sure what function the "Camera dei Deputati" plays in the Italian government though.

Grazie mille!

[smiley123]

To be honest, I'm not sure what function the "Camera dei Deputati" plays in the Italian government though.

Like the US House of Representatives (lower house of Parliament).

Thanks, I learned something new.

[JayJuanGee]

I won't get tired of posting this: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/doomsday-cult-of-bitcoin.html

You do NOT really support any argument that supposedly bitcoin is a cult by citing a 2 month old article that argues that bitcoin is a cult by stating that bitcoin is a cult.   It is just a stupid-ass argument to suggest that bitcoin enthusiast are following blindly and that they are true believers and that they are in a fantasy... blah blah blah.    The arguments are denigrating, superficial and selectively attempting to paint a picture with little to no evidence, besides maybe some anecdotal evidence and also some feelings that bitcoin feels like a cult.     

The involvement of people in bitcoin did start with technological people, yet there already exists more variations in the profiles of adopters, and those adopter profiles are going to become more and more varied as more and more adoptions takes place.. .it is just a phenomenon that is evolving, as you should know better, rather than spreading this superficial information.

[aminorex]

Does someone know why the Chinese exchanges are constantly higher than any others?

Chinese people are smarter

[pjviitas]

I just went all in LTC

[darlidada]

I just went all in LTC

Its not too late to change your position and go allin on monero. Gains are way more sure and way higher. Quote me back a few days after the coin has been added to mintpal!

[thezerg]

By the way, how does the pool make sure that each member is actually trying out all the nonces that he is supposed to try?

The member has to submit each one to the pool in order to get credit for it.

But how can the pool check that the submitted (failed) hash is correct for that nonce, without redoing the work? 

No you cant vfy that miner checked particular nonces time and net bw efficiently.  But u can vfy miners hash rate.  Dunno how it actually works but one soln is to have miners submit solutions found of lower difficulty. Ave number of solns found or best soln within a time period can give you average hash rate of 5hat miner.

[nrd525]

Seems pretty negative.  Could be really negative if someone pulls it off and publicizes the results.
http://www.coindesk.com/eavesdropping-attack-can-unmask-60-bitcoin-clients/

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Here we go again with these bullshit assertions that bitcoin believers or enthusiasts are some how engaging in religious and/or cultish behaviors....

You are ridiculous Blitz.. to be coming up with and spreading this baloney.. and you are supposed to be a moderator, no?  That's what it says next to your name... and avatar...

By the way Blitz... since you are a moderator and in the "know,"  can you make it so that I can have an avatar too?  (after I just insulted you... he he hehe?   )

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

HELLO!!!!!

Even though 0% and 1% were presented as current potential bank interest rate options, NO one, with any kind of financial astuteness above the level of a drunken teenager, should reasonably be considering keeping large sums of moneys in any bank account(s) for two years.. that seems to be very financially irresponsible, unless there is some kind of explanation concerning why that seems to be a necessary or prudent course of action.

Ok, you think you got it all figured out but you have no fucking idea of what you are talking about ( at least in my case)..... I don't know how old you are or what kind of a life you have but when you have a family and kids you tempt to chose the safest way to make sure they will have a roof and food and a good education for as long as you can... now if you think leaving potential profits in a high risk investment like Bitcoin without making any risk management is the way to go then you do it, I believe otherwise.

Yes, you have already inadequately made your case for your supposed cashing out strategy and your tactics by NOT explaining what you are doing with very much specifics, and then when I suggested that you are lacking any kind of meaningful plan (b/c I do NOT know it) you have gotten on the defensive by suggesting that I do NOT know your details (that you have refused to provide).  

Of course, I do NOT know your particular case b/c you did NOT describe your case in advance, but merely began to brag that you are cashing out half your BTC stash... etc. etc.. and that you will be living in la la land for 2 years etc etc which makes nearly NO sense at the current time..  at least your explanation so far makes LITTLE to NO sense.. except that you seem to be acting out of desperation and you want a quick pay out.. in other words you seem to be panic selling.. and fine.. NOTHING wrong with that... if that's what floats your boat.

I didn't invest the first time I knew about Bitcoin it took me a while to understand what the hell it is and to be honest I didn't invest because of the technology, I didn't give a fuck about it, I invested (risked my initial investment) because of the fair potential of making huge profits out of it, it seemed like free money for me.

Yeah, you got in way before me, so good for you.  You have experienced some good luck, and good timing and it is good that you were able to figure it out quickly that you were going to invest.

now in case Bitcoin will fail which is possible I will have some time to figure out things before it is all fucked up, if you have all your funds in Bitcoin and no liquid cash in the bank then good luck if anything wrong happens, in fact I always keep enough cash in my bank account just in case, but IMHO investing all your funds in stocks and metals... and being over optimistic about it is just stupid.

Currently, I only have 5-10% of my total investment in BTC, so I would NOT have taken such a high risk in the first place to put a large portion of my money into BTC... and maybe that is why you are getting a quick pay out b/c you bet and your bet went the right direction.  I am more of a long term planner, and I employ dollar cost averaging over a variety of investments.  I only began to read about bitcoin in November 2013, and then I began investing at that point..... slowly.. .. anyway, I have been adding more to my portfolio recently.. so yes, we are in different places concerning our respective portfolios.

beside, invest only what you can afford to lose, at this point I would hate my self if I lost 100% instead of 50% got it now ? risk management...

Yep.. I follow that philosophy too concerning NOT over extending myself regarding my investments.. and I have NO problem with my investment plan(s) regarding BTC or the level of my investment and/or diversification.

As you likely realize from reading this response, I still stand by my previous comment(s).... concerning your plan, and I have been fairly tolerant in giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning your plan(s) and why you did  it.  You have NOT really explained, except to take a preachy tone to suggest that somehow I am NOT understanding the sophistication of you methodology.  If you read my various previous responses, then likely you would understand better the crux of the issue regarding your seeming to bail out of half of your BTC at a weird time... and that seems to be your assessment of the situation.. so all the more power to you. 

[justusranvier]

But how can the pool check that the submitted (failed) hash is correct for that nonce, without redoing the work? 

Pools require miners to submit shares, which are solutions that do not meet the difficulty criteria for the Bitcoin blockchain itself, but do meet some lower target established by the pool instead.

A miner might need to calculate billions of hashes (not sure what share difficulty looks like these days) before they find a valid share.

This means the pool operators only have to duplicate a tiny fraction of the work of the hashers.

[adamstgBit]

Seems pretty negative.  Could be really negative if someone pulls it off and publicizes the results.
http://www.coindesk.com/eavesdropping-attack-can-unmask-60-bitcoin-clients/

dont go looking for FUD you'll find it, what you want is to put all your monies in bitcoin and step back for 2 years  

[aminorex]

Seems pretty negative.  Could be really negative if someone pulls it off and publicizes the results.
http://www.coindesk.com/eavesdropping-attack-can-unmask-60-bitcoin-clients/

What? Bitcoin isn't anonymous?  Oh noes!

Sheesh.  What rock have you been under for the past 5 years?

For all your public financial transactions there is bitcoin.  For everything else there is monero.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

2-I firstly use my logic and then the values that I took from my religion ( I am not a Muslim fanatic BTW, I am far from being a Muslim when it comes to sharia but I still have many values from being an Arab Muslim ) 

Surely, each of us have various religious and/or ethical and/or perceived legal boundaries that will cause us to place limits on how far we will go to personally profit.. or whether we attempt to manipulate or influence the behavior of others or to merely make ourself (ves) as a role model for others to emulate.  To the extent that you are allowing various kinds of beliefs about the impropriety of earning interest or participating in forms of usury, these kinds of concepts and limitations seem to be much beyond the considerations of a lot of others participating in this thread and forum.  Surely, you can apply these kinds of concepts to yourself and proclaim to your self that you are a moderate all that you want; however, if you are incorporating these ideas into your approach(es) about bitcoin and/or your future planning concerning your bitcoin proceedings, it seems likely that most people here are going to be merely distracted by these kinds religious limitations concerning interest and whether one kind of investment is ok .and another kind of investment is NOT., based on religious beliefs...   In my humble bumble opinion, that just seems too personal to be muddying up the thread with those kinds of personal considerations.

I didn't give any advice or any guidance about any investment, I decided upon my personal beliefs, but only when you insisted about knowing I told you, as far as I am concerned it is still a personal choice that somehow you don't like !!!! so next time you start writing about how my believes and my values and my personal choices doesn't fit your logic or the thread logic you must remember that they involves me and only me and they don't effect your life or the life of anyone except me.... got it ? this is where our freedom of choice comes from and no one should cross the lines. your freedom stops when others freedom starts.

I'm NOT imposing anything on you, and this happens to be a public thread.  I also have NOTHING against you.  I will maintain; however, that you seem to be missing various details in your explanations, and accordingly, we seem to agree that several of the specifics of your investment plans (to the extent that any plan exists) may NOT be applicable to too many other people b/c financially, they have NOT been explained very well.    Yet, they may be fine and dandy for you.   I have NO problem wishing you Good luck with your choices.

[JayJuanGee]

This is a nice read for those who do not grasp the issue of concentration of power into one mining pool.

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/13/time-for-a-hard-bitcoin-fork/

Excerpts:

But the fact is, this is a monumental event. The Bitcoin narrative, based on decentralization and distributed trust, is no more. True, the Bitcoin economy is about as healthy as it was yesterday, and the Bitcoin price will likely remain afloat for quite a while. But the Bitcoin economy and price are trailing indicators. The core pillar of the Bitcoin value equation has collapsed.

Worse, GHash has a well-known track record of actually engaging in double-spend attacks even when they did not command a majority of the hashing power. GHash used its hashing power to attack a gambling site that accepted 0-confirmation transactions. In essence, they would make a bet, as in red-or-black in roulette, and if the virtual roulette wheel spin came out the wrong way, they would cancel their losing bet and place a new one. This is outright theft: GHash stole from a gambling operator.

I was led to believe by the starry-eyed bull tards that it's all nothing but FUD.

And in November 2013 I was led to believe by the douche who wrote the article (Emin Gün Sirer) that Bitcoin should be dead and buried by now.

Bitcoin is broken. And not just superficially so, but fundamentally, at the core protocol level. We're not talking about a simple buffer overflow here, or even a badly designed API that can be easily patched; instead, the problem is intrinsic to the entire way Bitcoin works. All other cryptocurrencies and schemes based on the same Bitcoin idea, including Litecoin, Namecoin, and any of the other few dozen Bitcoin-inspired currencies, are broken as well.

Specifically, in a paper we placed on arXiv, Ittay Eyal and I outline an attack by which a minority group of miners can obtain revenues in excess of their fair share, and grow in number until they reach a majority. When this point is reached, the Bitcoin value-proposition collapses: the currency comes under the control of a single entity; it is no longer decentralized; the controlling entity can determine who participates in mining and which transactions are committed, and can even roll back transactions at will. This snowball scenario does not require an ill-intentioned Bond-style villain to launch; it can take place as the collaborative result of people trying to earn a bit more money for their mining efforts.

http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/

The guy has a history of spreading baseless bullshit to garner clicks. Just like the case of Professor Bitcorn, trolling Bitcoin seems to be good for an academic CV.

Yes, and Blitz seems to add to the same FUD by circulating it and suggesting that there may be some validity to it.

[JayJuanGee]

JayJuanGee will you show some mercy, and shut the fuck up? PLZ! kthx byebye

I must be crowding you out of the meaningful bitcoin  conversation.. sorry about that, dude...

NOT    

[JayJuanGee]

Hey Blitz.... I am very excited to notice that you got rid of that misleading definition of FUD from your signature ... that is great!!!! 

In order that we can better understand the meaning of your statement, above, are you now back to using the commonly accepted meaning of FUD?  That is "fear, uncertainty and doubt"?

Dude, I know bitcoins can't buy everything but please do get a sense of humour.

Dude.. .I should have put a smiley face...     However, my comment above to Blitz was mostly serious... with only a very slight sense of humor.. so therefore I did NOT put any smiley face..   I'm gonna try to watch more TV and that might help...