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Question: Price Target for Nov. 30, 2024:
<$75K - 1 (2.4%)
$75K to $80K - 1 (2.4%)
$80K to $85K - 1 (2.4%)
$85K to $90K - 7 (16.7%)
$90K to $95K - 12 (28.6%)
$95K to $100K - 5 (11.9%)
>$100K - 15 (35.7%)
Total Voters: 42

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26492343 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JorgeStolfi
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October 29, 2014, 05:13:22 PM


Look closely, that's a fake beartrap. Made in China?  Grin
Walsoraj
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October 29, 2014, 05:17:40 PM

Anyone else starting to suspect that Jorge is The Great Manipulator, suppressing the price with over 100k coins?
noobtrader
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October 29, 2014, 05:18:20 PM

Anyone else starting to suspect that Jorge is The Great Manipulator, suppressing the price with over 100k coins?

anything is possible
fonzie
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October 29, 2014, 05:20:44 PM

Anyone else starting to suspect that Jorge is The Great Manipulator, suppressing the price with over 100k coins?

Old news...
Walsoraj
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October 29, 2014, 05:24:33 PM

Anyone else starting to suspect that Jorge is The Great Manipulator, suppressing the price with over 100k coins?

anything is possible

Maybe even PROBABLE. As an academic, he has a vested interest in seeing bitcoin fail!
Capt Drake
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October 29, 2014, 05:26:07 PM

Anyone else starting to suspect that Jorge is The Great Manipulator, suppressing the price with over 100k coins?


Actually he is Gerge Soros  Kiss
sleger
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October 29, 2014, 05:26:12 PM

some idiot on bitfinex is offering 61btc swap at 0.013% when he can get 0.031% from demand...

And another idiot does not know how the swaps market work or can not read that the offer is for 2 days whereas the demand is for 30 days... Maybe, just maybe, he might need his coins back sooner than 30 days...
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October 29, 2014, 05:28:00 PM

As far as the rumors say Jorge was the one that originally invented bitcoin, but someone drugged him, stole his code and destroyed every backup of it.
That´s what they on the street at least. He seems to be on a vengeance now. Can´t blame him for that.
cbeast
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October 29, 2014, 05:29:36 PM

By the way, while I belive that bitcoin will not survive in the long term, I would not risk any prediction for the price in middle term.  It may even go back to the 1000$ range or more, who knows.  All I will risk saying is that, unless and until a large new market opens, the price will probably keep falling towards the pre-bubble level of ~120$ (or even ~20$, if the Feb/2013 bubble too was made in China).
The markets are already there. It's a few bureaucrat luddites pissing in the soup that keep the doors closed. When the media starts loving bitcoin it will come back.
Bittings
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October 29, 2014, 05:30:47 PM

It should be noted also that no one should expect a balanced view of the market/Bitcoin from people who define their identity on Bitcoin being a failure either. Someone who claims they have no stake in the game, and is skeptical of Bitcoin (to the point of having it included in every post) should be viewed in the same light you are projecting on the these "salesmen". That is all.

Touché.  However, the stakes are very different...

Draper invested 18 M$ to buy the 30'000 BTC at 600$/BTC or so.  On paper, he lost at least 4 M$ so far.  SMBIT may have sold almost 100 M$ in shares (at the then-current price) and therefore earned at least 2 M$ in fees, but has sold very little for the last 6 months.  For them (and other bitcoin investors and entrepreneurs), convincing people that bitcoin will go to the moon means millions of dollars.  They  will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in BloombergTV and advertorials in Forbes to push that view.

On the other hand, skeptics like me, Krugman, "Prof Bitcorn", and millions others out there will not earn or lose a dime, whetever happens to bitcoin.  (Actually, IIRC, Prof Bitcorn said that he does own some BTC.)  We will only have to deal with bruised egos (but economists like Krugman and Bitcorn are quite used to being wrong).  Apart from that, skeptics have no reason to try to influence the price; and they will not spend even 10$ to have their opinion published.

By the way, while I belive that bitcoin will not survive in the long term, I would not risk any prediction for the price in middle term.  It may even go back to the 1000$ range or more, who knows.  All I will risk saying is that, unless and until a large new market opens, the price will probably keep falling towards the pre-bubble level of ~120$ (or even ~20$, if the Feb/2013 bubble too was made in China).

Everybody has an angle I suppose, which is why its dangerous to listen to anyone on this forum, or in life for that matter.

However as far as stakes go, Draper and his like are multi-millionaires/billionaires, their paper loss of a couple million is probably not keeping them up at night. But you are right it is in their best interest to see the prices rise.

And if we are to worry about paper losses, the skeptics have more to lose than their untarnished egos. For example, you have been around these parts since December of last year, you've had plenty of time to accumulate some bitcoins for sub $1000/$600/$300 prices. Your lack of buying over the past year means you've forgone the chance to reap the benefits of a sudden bubble to say $6k. That's a 10x increase in paper gains you are betting on not happening. Which I would guess would have more impact to your life than the loss of a couple million would to the Draper family. Fear of missing out is as good a reason as any to try to influence the price down for a skeptic.
Walsoraj
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October 29, 2014, 05:34:38 PM

As far as the rumors say Jorge was the one that originally invented bitcoin, but someone drugged him, stole his code and destroyed every backup of it.
That´s what they on the street at least. He seems to be on a vengeance now. Can´t blame him for that.

Sounds like a logical sequence of events. I agree.
cbeast
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October 29, 2014, 05:35:42 PM

As far as the rumors say Jorge was the one that originally invented bitcoin, but someone drugged him, stole his code and destroyed every backup of it.
That´s what they on the street at least. He seems to be on a vengeance now. Can´t blame him for that.

Sounds like a logical sequence of events. I agree.
Wasn't he going to call it NapCoin?
empowering
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October 29, 2014, 05:40:47 PM

It should be noted also that no one should expect a balanced view of the market/Bitcoin from people who define their identity on Bitcoin being a failure either. Someone who claims they have no stake in the game, and is skeptical of Bitcoin (to the point of having it included in every post) should be viewed in the same light you are projecting on the these "salesmen". That is all.

Touché.  However, the stakes are very different...

Draper invested 18 M$ to buy the 30'000 BTC at 600$/BTC or so.  On paper, he lost at least 4 M$ so far.  SMBIT may have sold almost 100 M$ in shares (at the then-current price) and therefore earned at least 2 M$ in fees, but has sold very little for the last 6 months.  For them (and other bitcoin investors and entrepreneurs), convincing people that bitcoin will go to the moon means millions of dollars.  They  will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in BloombergTV and advertorials in Forbes to push that view.

On the other hand, skeptics like me, Krugman, "Prof Bitcorn", and millions others out there will not earn or lose a dime, whetever happens to bitcoin.  (Actually, IIRC, Prof Bitcorn said that he does own some BTC.)  We will only have to deal with bruised egos (but economists like Krugman and Bitcorn are quite used to being wrong).  Apart from that, skeptics have no reason to try to influence the price; and they will not spend even 10$ to have their opinion published.

By the way, while I belive that bitcoin will not survive in the long term, I would not risk any prediction for the price in middle term.  It may even go back to the 1000$ range or more, who knows.  All I will risk saying is that, unless and until a large new market opens, the price will probably keep falling towards the pre-bubble level of ~120$ (or even ~20$, if the Feb/2013 bubble too was made in China).



Tim Draper and Marc Andreesen et al have got nothing better to do than waste their time , their effort and their reputation and money on something like Bitcoin. I mean after the failure they have made of everything in their lives, maybe they should just stick to selling cut and shut cars?  did you see how those guys have been attached to every scam going on the internets for the past twenty years,  I even got a 419 scam letter that came from Tim Draper, or as he called himself "Masta Tim"

I am assuming they are putting their money, time, effort into Bitcoin because they think it is a bad idea and that it will never go anywhere and because they think it will fail, and well they were bored, an what the heck lets give this Bitcoin a shot,  as that is how they and businssmen generally conduct themselves.

I bet what they thought was:

" I know!! my career and reputation mean nothing to me , nor my money or time, so what I want to do is invest my hard earned money and my time, on something that I think is a terrible idea, has no future, and that will never work, that provides no benefit, and that I think people will hate! Nevermind that I could enter many many forms of industry on the planet and make fortunes with less risk."

and then they probably thought

 "what I will do is get involved in a scam that I do not believe in, and maybe con a load of stupid people... hmm I will set it up so it only works for a few months a year top and then retire because I dont care about anything but a few meazely bucks I can make scamming a few people for a few months. If only I could just retire and earn more money than most people make in a lifetime from my current investments and just the interest on the money I already hold"

I am sure that the Lawskys and the George Osbornes of the world are only looking for attention too, and are wasting their departments and their own time and effort and money and resources that could be better used elsewhere, making plans for regulations for something that is not ever going anywhere.

Hint for Jorge:
"actions speak louder than words"
"putting their money where their mouth is"

Also hint for Jorge: that new market you are talking about, it is the whole world (at least it does have the potential to be)

In essence I think that these guys, have far more options at hand to them to make more money than they could with Bitcoin, and with less risk/less exposure. To paint these guys as out to make a quick buck from some noobs is a little weak in my opinion, it does not hold up to inspection. Sure they are talking their book, as you point out, but what businessman in the world worth their salt would not? none, nowhere.

ps: Richard Branson assures me that Virgin Galactic will not blow up, I am not sure though, I think he is saying that just to sell tickets, because salesman.
noobtrader
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October 29, 2014, 05:42:32 PM

some idiot on bitfinex is offering 61btc swap at 0.013% when he can get 0.031% from demand...

And another idiot does not know how the swaps market work or can not read that the offer is for 2 days whereas the demand is for 30 days... Maybe, just maybe, he might need his coins back sooner than 30 days...

he might as well put 0.04 % per 2 days because below him the offer is 0.048 per 2 days....

but its ok... maybe short are being closed and this auto-swap was set at 0.013% which is more probable
empowering
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October 29, 2014, 05:45:57 PM


Look closely, that's a fake beartrap. Made in China?  Grin

I get the feeling that they trap more bears in China, than anywhere in the world nowadays... and then skin them and remove their bones and bile and organs and use them for medicine and skipping ropes and the like.

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October 29, 2014, 05:50:05 PM

[wall of butthurt and denial]

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October 29, 2014, 05:50:52 PM

10
    minutes
noobtrader
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October 29, 2014, 05:51:22 PM


Look closely, that's a fake beartrap. Made in China?  Grin

I get the feeling that they trap more bears in China, than anywhere in the world nowadays... and then skin them and remove their bones and bile and organs and use them for medicine and skipping ropes and the like.



i believe there is more panda than bear in china, and panda is endangered species. go figure...
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October 29, 2014, 05:53:54 PM

Pricedrop is because some big dudes buying into the blocknet...
JorgeStolfi
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October 29, 2014, 05:55:31 PM

And if we are to worry about paper losses, the skeptics have more to lose than their untarnished egos. For example, you have been around these parts since December of last year, you've had plenty of time to accumulate some bitcoins for sub $1000/$600/$300 prices. Your lack of buying over the past year means you've forgone the chance to reap the benefits of a sudden bubble to say $6k. That's a 10x increase in paper gains you are betting on not happening. Which I would guess would have more impact to your life than the loss of a couple million would to the Draper family. Fear of missing out is as good a reason as any to try to influence the price down for a skeptic.

I am not sure I understand the logic.  "I may have an oportunity to make more than 1000% ROI in the near future, but since I did not bet on that opportunity before, I will try to prevent that opportunity from arising."

By the way, note that my strategy -- NOT buying a single satoshi -- has put me in a much better position, vis a vis that fabulous possible opportunity, than all those who went "all in" since last November, when I first learned of bitcoin.  In the unlikely chance that I decide to invest now, I will get twice as much return on the dollar than those who bought in January and have been hodling since then.
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