Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 04:33:30 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 [47] 48 49 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [0 GH/s 0% fee SMPPS] ArsBitcoin mining pool!  (Read 117448 times)
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742



View Profile WWW
March 01, 2012, 07:21:19 PM
 #921

Im also wondering that something must be wrong with this pool, surely statisticly variance cant be this bad over such an extensive period.

Sure its hashrate dropped from ~900GH avg to ~300GH avg since dropping from surplus to -1000coins most of the time but still this variance isnt even seen solomining like I am doing with part of my farm o_0

don't forget this pool was in a big positive buffer for a long time....
Yeah... back when it had an operator...

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481128410
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481128410

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481128410
Reply with quote  #2

1481128410
Report to moderator
1481128410
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481128410

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481128410
Reply with quote  #2

1481128410
Report to moderator
1481128410
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481128410

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481128410
Reply with quote  #2

1481128410
Report to moderator
MintCondition
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322



View Profile
March 01, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
 #922

Im also wondering that something must be wrong with this pool, surely statisticly variance cant be this bad over such an extensive period.

Sure its hashrate dropped from ~900GH avg to ~300GH avg since dropping from surplus to -1000coins most of the time but still this variance isnt even seen solomining like I am doing with part of my farm o_0
Ars employs a nominal fee of 0%. The payout is based on 100% of found blocks being valid, but that's unlikely to happen in practice. In practice, some blocks turn out to be orphan blocks. The pool is taking a statistical hit of 50 BTC for every block that turns out to be an orphan, which is around 1.5% of all blocks for most pools.

The effective fee is therefore about -1.5%. Yes, it's an effective bonus for miners! Who pays that bonus? The pool buffer. Total work done at Ars is now about 79850 BTC, which comes down to 1597 blocks. Although I can't find any orphan blocks in the stats at Ars, it's unlikely there haven't been any. You'd expect about 1.5%*1597 = 24 orphan blocks, causing a cumulative buffer drain of about 1200 BTC. The buffer is currently at -1000, not that far from -1200.

Now you may think: Great, the bonus is paid by the pool buffer, so I don't have to care about it. But the pool buffer is just a concept, and eventually real people have got to take the hit and accept the losses of all those orphan blocks. Who will those people be? It will be the last miners to quit Arsbitcoin. Since hashrate will then drop to 0, there's no new BTC flowing in. No income means the payouts for the last -BUFFER_SIZE Bitcoins can never be made.

In a sense, negative-effective-fee-SMPPS is not unlike the game "Musical chairs".

Until the moment the hashrate hits 0, the pool buffer will continue to drain at a rate of 1.5% of the theoretical PPS value of the delivered work, masked by normal variance in the block finding process. It is perfectly possible that due to normal variance the pool gets lucky and the buffer goes into positive territory again. Good and bad luck cancel each other out though, while the 1.5% drain is a constant negative force, creating ever longer payout delays.


Anyway..
For all reward schemes an effective fee can be calculated, and for PPS-derived schemes it differs from the nominal fee. At ABCPool there was some discussion when we started mentioning an effective fee in favor of a nominal fee; some vocal forum members found it to be misleading. Ars is now starting to show just how real the effective fee and its consequences are.
NB: ABCPool is *pure* PPS, there is no concept of a buffer for miners and therefore no payment delays.

Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
March 02, 2012, 04:36:45 AM
 #923

Erm your long explaination meant nothing.

Point is longterm its a zero sum game ie. overtime and over even blocks you should even out even at 0% PPS (they only pay the PPS rates once blocks are solved, there is no extra 1.5% earnings on top) and ARS doesnt pay for orphans/invalids since it pays after 120confirms and if its invalid/orphaned you get nothing from that block.

So again, after so many blocks Im pretty sure it should be closer to even than 20-25blocks behind.

PS. Your whole post seems like an ABCpool advert, stay on discussion and keep the FUD.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
MintCondition
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322



View Profile
March 02, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
 #924

Point is longterm its a zero sum game ie. overtime and over even blocks you should even out even at 0% PPS (they only pay the PPS rates once blocks are solved, there is no extra 1.5% earnings on top)
Theoretically yes. In practice there are leaks because of orphaned blocks and block withholding. Paying full PPS value is only zero sum if you can eliminate those two factors. Orphaned blocks can be eliminated by retracting payments or paying less than full PPS value; can you point out where it says Ars does any of those?

Quote
and ARS doesnt pay for orphans/invalids since it pays after 120confirms and if its invalid/orphaned you get nothing from that block.

So again, after so many blocks Im pretty sure it should be closer to even than 20-25blocks behind.
Ars doesn't pay for orphan blocks? Please provide a source for that statement. I'll provide two that seem to suggest otherwise:

On their front page it says 'You will earn (1 / difficulty) * 50 BTC per share'. A reference in this forum thread that's relevant is:
We haven't had any invalid blocks yet.  It wouldn't mean much really, it would just be like not finding a block.  Factors in to all the luck stuff.
..which also backs up my explanation: the statistical loss for the invalid block will come out of the buffer, and miners' Lifetime work is not affected. Therefore Ars pays for invalid blocks in essence by taking a loan against the last miners to quit mining there.

Quote
PS. Your whole post seems like an ABCpool advert, stay on discussion and keep the FUD.
The topic was the negative buffer, which i have given a sound explanation for. ABCPool (and your pool too) has some of the same issues that Ars does since PPS and SMPPS are similar, which is why I'm interested in this discussion in the first place.

Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
March 02, 2012, 12:11:39 PM
 #925

Point is longterm its a zero sum game ie. overtime and over even blocks you should even out even at 0% PPS (they only pay the PPS rates once blocks are solved, there is no extra 1.5% earnings on top)
Theoretically yes. In practice there are leaks because of orphaned blocks and block withholding. Paying full PPS value is only zero sum if you can eliminate those two factors. Orphaned blocks can be eliminated by retracting payments or paying less than full PPS value; can you point out where it says Ars does any of those?

Quote
and ARS doesnt pay for orphans/invalids since it pays after 120confirms and if its invalid/orphaned you get nothing from that block.

So again, after so many blocks Im pretty sure it should be closer to even than 20-25blocks behind.
Ars doesn't pay for orphan blocks? Please provide a source for that statement. I'll provide two that seem to suggest otherwise:

On their front page it says 'You will earn (1 / difficulty) * 50 BTC per share'. A reference in this forum thread that's relevant is:
We haven't had any invalid blocks yet.  It wouldn't mean much really, it would just be like not finding a block.  Factors in to all the luck stuff.
..which also backs up my explanation: the statistical loss for the invalid block will come out of the buffer, and miners' Lifetime work is not affected. Therefore Ars pays for invalid blocks in essence by taking a loan against the last miners to quit mining there.

Quote
PS. Your whole post seems like an ABCpool advert, stay on discussion and keep the FUD.
The topic was the negative buffer, which i have given a sound explanation for. ABCPool (and your pool too) has some of the same issues that Ars does since PPS and SMPPS are similar, which is why I'm interested in this discussion in the first place.


SMPPS and straight PPS is not similar at all, and you know clearly why. What I would agree on is that there is no invalid/orphan blocks so if ars is paying out for orphan/invalid blocks then it would answer the huge backlog right now.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
farfiman
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1434



View Profile
March 02, 2012, 01:18:33 PM
 #926

At least the ARS thread is lively again  Smiley

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
Martin Armstrong
MintCondition
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322



View Profile
March 02, 2012, 01:35:19 PM
 #927

SMPPS and straight PPS is not similar at all, and you know clearly why. What I would agree on is that there is no invalid/orphan blocks so if ars is paying out for orphan/invalid blocks then it would answer the huge backlog right now.
They're certainly not the same, but there are some relevant shared qualities between the two, like the ones I alluded to above. But then again, I guess every reward method has some shared qualities with every other Cheesy

BurningToad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 207


View Profile
March 14, 2012, 07:52:50 PM
 #928

Hello, it appears a malicious users has logged in to 22 different accounts.  Because of the limited nature (vs all 4000+ accounts) I believe the hacker either used some brute force method, or an existing leak of usernames/passwords to try and log into accounts.  For example, the MTGox leak a while back.

I've temporarily disabled all PIN, Address, and Payout changes, so you will not be able to change your password at the moment (but neither will any hacker.)  I sent an email out to the affected accounts that I know about at the moment.

Once the malicious user got into an account, he brute forced address change attempts by trying different PIN numbers.  If he was successful, he then sent a manual payment to the new address.

So far, this appears to have only happened once (but could have been a couple more, still looking), as he could only try one PIN per second due to server restrictions.

I'll be working on changes to make this attack not possible in the future, and account changes will be disabled until then.

Malicious user information:
IP: 79.172.242.141
Malicious address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/17JuYfk8bWUHvAfRv5eF7zUic1g3qrDobz
I believe this represents the majority of any bitcoins stolen from this attack.

RandyFolds
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434



View Profile
March 14, 2012, 08:35:44 PM
 #929

Shitty. Thanks for keeping us posted.

▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓ ONEDICE.ME ▓▓▓▓▓ BEST DICE EXPERIENCE ▓▓▓▓ PLAY OR INVEST ▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
grue
Global Moderator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932



View Profile
March 14, 2012, 11:05:49 PM
 #930

Hello, it appears a malicious users has logged in to 22 different accounts.  Because of the limited nature (vs all 4000+ accounts) I believe the hacker either used some brute force method, or an existing leak of usernames/passwords to try and log into accounts.  For example, the MTGox leak a while back.

I've temporarily disabled all PIN, Address, and Payout changes, so you will not be able to change your password at the moment (but neither will any hacker.)  I sent an email out to the affected accounts that I know about at the moment.

Once the malicious user got into an account, he brute forced address change attempts by trying different PIN numbers.  If he was successful, he then sent a manual payment to the new address.

So far, this appears to have only happened once (but could have been a couple more, still looking), as he could only try one PIN per second due to server restrictions.

I'll be working on changes to make this attack not possible in the future, and account changes will be disabled until then.

Malicious user information:
IP: 79.172.242.141
Malicious address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/17JuYfk8bWUHvAfRv5eF7zUic1g3qrDobz
I believe this represents the majority of any bitcoins stolen from this attack.
is it possible to allow manual payouts for people who haven't changed their payout addresses?

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
kano
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1932


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
March 14, 2012, 11:11:40 PM
 #931

...
Malicious user information:
IP: 79.172.242.141
Malicious address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/17JuYfk8bWUHvAfRv5eF7zUic1g3qrDobz
I believe this represents the majority of any bitcoins stolen from this attack.
I presume you've done it already, but the whois of that IP address says it is effectively one person.
So either they were hacked or they did it:
Code:
inetnum:        79.172.242.0 - 79.172.242.255
netname:        WEBENLET-NET
descr:          Webenlet Kft.
descr:          1131 Budapest, Hajdu koz 7.
country:        HU
admin-c:        ZV41-RIPE
tech-c:         ZV41-RIPE
status:         ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by:         DENINET-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

person:         Zoltan Virag
address:        H-1132 Budapest, Victor Hugo u. 18-22.
address:        HU
phone:          +3612960075
fax-no:         +3612960076
nic-hdl:        ZV41-RIPE
e-mail:         ripe@deninet.hu
mnt-by:         DENINET-MNT
remarks:        ---------------------------------------------
remarks:        Please send all abuse and spam complaints to:
remarks:        abuse@deninet.hu
remarks:        ---------------------------------------------
source:         RIPE # Filtered

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
Shadow383
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


View Profile
March 15, 2012, 01:20:24 AM
 #932

...
Malicious user information:
IP: 79.172.242.141
Malicious address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/17JuYfk8bWUHvAfRv5eF7zUic1g3qrDobz
I believe this represents the majority of any bitcoins stolen from this attack.
I presume you've done it already, but the whois of that IP address says it is effectively one person.
So either they were hacked or they did it:

Not quite - google lists that as also being the registered address of this hosting company: http://www.1b.hu/
Perhaps VPN/Proxy/Tor exit node?
kano
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1932


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
March 15, 2012, 05:10:01 AM
 #933

...
Malicious user information:
IP: 79.172.242.141
Malicious address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/17JuYfk8bWUHvAfRv5eF7zUic1g3qrDobz
I believe this represents the majority of any bitcoins stolen from this attack.
I presume you've done it already, but the whois of that IP address says it is effectively one person.
So either they were hacked or they did it:

Not quite - google lists that as also being the registered address of this hosting company: http://www.1b.hu/
Perhaps VPN/Proxy/Tor exit node?
Even if it is a company - being so small: only 254 IP addresses, would mean they'd most likely know a lot about it.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
yxt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834



View Profile WWW
March 17, 2012, 01:27:17 PM
 #934

is it possible to allow manual payouts for people who haven't changed their payout addresses?

 Huh

how long will the payout function disabled?

BurningToad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 207


View Profile
March 17, 2012, 04:52:54 PM
 #935

I plan on getting to it today, sorry for the wait.  If you have something urgent, you can email be at burningtoad@arsbitcoin.com

Miner612
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84

FPGA convert


View Profile
March 17, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
 #936

I plan on getting to it today, sorry for the wait.  If you have something urgent, you can email be at burningtoad@arsbitcoin.com

Are you running the pool again?  Or does it still suck?

You guys were bad ass for a while, then started sucking ass.  Are you bad ass again?  Are you the original guy who ran the pool when it was bad ass?

I am looking for a new home ... 10 ghash and growing.

I buy and sell GPUs, most 5850s and 7970s. 
jimzolorenzo@gmail.com  -- Make an offer.
http://myworld.ebay.com/i_buy_5850s  -- current inventory
I have a couple bare bone mining rigs for sale as well.

--------------

I bought silver from [ccliu] 5 star transaction!
I bought silver from [TECSHARE] -- shipping still
Graet
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980



View Profile WWW
March 19, 2012, 08:35:04 AM
 #937

I plan on getting to it today, sorry for the wait.  If you have something urgent, you can email be at burningtoad@arsbitcoin.com

Are you running the pool again?  Or does it still suck?

You guys were bad ass for a while, then started sucking ass.  Are you bad ass again?  Are you the original guy who ran the pool when it was bad ass?

I am looking for a new home ... 10 ghash and growing.

Hi Burningtoad,
I think this is a valid question.
If the pool is not being actively supported could i suggest you remove "Come join us!" from your title. I idle in #arsbitcoin irc and many ppl that join come for support...and get none...and wander off to another pool. Current miners often join and go "why has the hasrate dropped" etc.

What are your plans for ArsBitcoin?
= SMPPS Buffer   -1,047.81461198 BTC is very big
Pool Hash Rate   314.384 Ghashes/s is ~1/3 of what it was
You had an awesome pool and this is a question the larger bitcoin community is very interested in Smiley

Hope life is treating you better Smiley
Best wishes,
Graet

| Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd https://ozcoin.net Double Geometric Reward System https://lc.ozcoin.net for Litecoin mining DGM| https://crowncloud.net VPS and Dedicated Servers for the BTC community
yxt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834



View Profile WWW
March 19, 2012, 12:11:12 PM
 #938

What is the situation with the payouts?

Twister Trojan
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
March 20, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
 #939

What is the situation with the payouts?
Any updates on this would be appreciated.

BurningToad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 207


View Profile
March 20, 2012, 10:09:55 PM
 #940

You can now make account modifications that require your PIN number again.  Email burningtoad@arsbitcoin.com if you need any assistance.


Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 [47] 48 49 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!