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Author Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary  (Read 434693 times)
BkkCoins
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May 11, 2013, 11:54:28 AM
 #441

My PSU has two power rails and the second one is already heavily used. Guess I'll have to buy another PSU to be sure that my computer is stable, It's not a big deal if I buy used one or make one myself.

You could probably just use a 12v laptop charger they're normally very consistent voltage wise and around the right amperage range for a board or two. Would I be correct in this?
Probably but maybe not. I recall a year or two ago someone used one with his Ztex FPGA miner and it output too high a voltage (more than rated) and blew the board. It really depends on the quality and specs.

My recent board changes have added a space for a Phoenix terminal connector behind the PCIe connector so that users who want to hook up other power sources have that option and because it's SMD it means that you can avoid any thru-hole solder connections that may contact the heat sink. I tried to place a barrel jack there but they were just too big to fit between PCIe and board edge and still maintain compatibility with right-angle PCIe connections.

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May 11, 2013, 12:23:35 PM
 #442

My PSU has two power rails and the second one is already heavily used. Guess I'll have to buy another PSU to be sure that my computer is stable, It's not a big deal if I buy used one or make one myself.

You could probably just use a 12v laptop charger they're normally very consistent voltage wise and around the right amperage range for a board or two. Would I be correct in this?
Probably but maybe not. I recall a year or two ago someone used one with his Ztex FPGA miner and it output too high a voltage (more than rated) and blew the board. It really depends on the quality and specs.

My recent board changes have added a space for a Phoenix terminal connector behind the PCIe connector so that users who want to hook up other power sources have that option and because it's SMD it means that you can avoid any thru-hole solder connections that may contact the heat sink. I tried to place a barrel jack there but they were just too big to fit between PCIe and board edge and still maintain compatibility with right-angle PCIe connections.

Nice one on the Phoenix connector.

As for the laptop chargers: im unsure of what to use now. Many ATX PSU's I've had go high on the 12v when loaded really lightly and I don't exactly want to use one for a single board. What would you suggest?
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May 11, 2013, 12:33:54 PM
 #443

Nice one on the Phoenix connector.

As for the laptop chargers: im unsure of what to use now. Many ATX PSU's I've had go high on the 12v when loaded really lightly and I don't exactly want to use one for a single board. What would you suggest?
The only supply I would feel good recommending is a high quality ATX one like a Corsair. Even their low-end CX series is good. The ATX should be outputting a 12V regulated voltage so it it's off by more than 5-10% then it's not doing it's job. The specs for the on board buck regs are that they can take up to 21V normally by design and 25V under worst case conditions. So unless you have something that's gone very wrong it probably is ok.

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May 11, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
 #444

Nice one on the Phoenix connector.

As for the laptop chargers: im unsure of what to use now. Many ATX PSU's I've had go high on the 12v when loaded really lightly and I don't exactly want to use one for a single board. What would you suggest?
The only supply I would feel good recommending is a high quality ATX one like a Corsair. Even their low-end CX series is good. The ATX should be outputting a 12V regulated voltage so it it's off by more than 5-10% then it's not doing it's job. The specs for the on board buck regs are that they can take up to 21V normally by design and 25V under worst case conditions. So unless you have something that's gone very wrong it probably is ok.

++

Better brands have tighter deviations. I think ATX calls for +/-5% (too lazy to Google it right now Smiley)

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May 11, 2013, 01:27:12 PM
 #445

Nice one on the Phoenix connector.

As for the laptop chargers: im unsure of what to use now. Many ATX PSU's I've had go high on the 12v when loaded really lightly and I don't exactly want to use one for a single board. What would you suggest?
The only supply I would feel good recommending is a high quality ATX one like a Corsair. Even their low-end CX series is good. The ATX should be outputting a 12V regulated voltage so it it's off by more than 5-10% then it's not doing it's job. The specs for the on board buck regs are that they can take up to 21V normally by design and 25V under worst case conditions. So unless you have something that's gone very wrong it probably is ok.

++

Better brands have tighter deviations. I think ATX calls for +/-5% (too lazy to Google it right now Smiley)

Are there not issues running at less than 10% capacity/load though? Always thought they needed at least 15% load to be stable.
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May 11, 2013, 02:24:55 PM
 #446

BkkCoins,

I may missed this but i am wondering if there will be a way to diagnose if a chip gets broken. You have mentioned that all 8 chips will stop hashing. Are you planning by design to add some debug points - hardware or software so we to be able to find out exactly which chip(s) are faulty if any?

10x!

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May 11, 2013, 02:57:29 PM
 #447

Can we get an update from the OP on where this stands?

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May 11, 2013, 04:13:27 PM
 #448

BKKCoins... it looks like you now are in planning stage. And you work on the 16 chip board now. Im interested in your biggest board and would like to know what you think when you have the planning ready, the parts needed to create, tested it and the endprice. So in fact the date when i could buy the diy-set. I would like to know this beforehand so i can checkout how much bitcoins i have to own at that time so that i can pay you for the sets.

Another question... is it a bad idea to create the boards in the normal kitchen oven? Are there gases or something you should avoid in machines used to make food?

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May 11, 2013, 04:20:16 PM
 #449

Check the DIY site for the info on that. You should be doing a lot of research on your own for this to decide whether you will either do a the reflow yourself or outsource it. I think most people would be smart to get the boards already populated with components and then find a fab house locally to do the reflow especially having read the specs myself I think you need to get some serious skills and equipment if you are doing multiple boards.

https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/59

And more detailed info reflow with QFN chips.

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa122/sloa122.pdf
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slua271a/slua271a.pdf

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May 11, 2013, 04:22:40 PM
 #450

Check the DIY site for the info on that.

I know all pages of the DIY-Thread but i dont see the answer to my questions. Can you give me the post-id?

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May 11, 2013, 04:23:22 PM
 #451

i understand this right

30 board(about 5gh each) at $5 each?

so $150 for 150gh?
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May 11, 2013, 04:26:44 PM
 #452

i understand this right

30 board(about 5gh each) at $5 each?

so $150 for 150gh?

Scroll back through the thread.

Depending on order size boards could be as low as 2.60 per board for 100+ ordered.

Remember you have to add the following:

PSU
Assembly
Heat sinks and fans.

Save BKKcoins time and re-read all his posts for his answers. Took me 1 minute to find the info and repost it again for you guys.

Quote
ALL QTY 1 --- SUBJECT TO CHANGE

(board + parts) (without ASIC, heat sink, ATX PSU, cables)
Klondike 1 - $16  (I did a design and parts list this evening, and board partly done)
Klondike 16 - $35
Klondike 64 - $100

(board only)
Klondike 1 - $6
Klondike 16 - $12
Klondike 64 - $25


Qty 10, $9 each - Qty 30 $5 each - Qty 50 $4.60 each - Qty 100 $2.60 each.
(US$, my actual cost, 4 layer professionally mfr. board only, plus shpg)
(looks like 30 is a good sweet spot, and I can only use 2-3 myself)

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May 11, 2013, 04:29:50 PM
 #453

psu no problem

mmh fans and heatsink maybe expansive for all those boards...
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May 11, 2013, 04:32:14 PM
 #454

psu no problem

ok for fans and heatsink also, they don't cost too much
overall it's still very cheap

$$$ for Avalon chips most expensive part... scroll back through the thread mentioned several times. Also list of BOM in his github in PDF format.
https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/Parts%20List.pdf


$20.02 per board for 100+ board run his costs.

Also he has design up for Klego... for a 256 set up for daisy chain connected boards. A 40 x 40 configuration. So people with larger orders might be interested in that solution.

https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/KLego.pdf

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May 11, 2013, 04:36:35 PM
 #455

yeah, it's not that cheap after all
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May 11, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2013, 05:35:53 PM by Bicknellski
 #456

yeah, it's not that cheap after all

Cheap is a relative term.

1. When does it get delivered?
2. Can you build / assemble it in your country and save on shipping?
3. Will it hash at or above specification?
4. Will it make it to market before other ASICs?
5. Can you upgrade or buy more and put them together?

There is a lot going for this design if and I say that clearly IF it works. If you bought chips this and any of the DIY designs are risky. No guarantee.

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May 11, 2013, 04:42:34 PM
 #457

psu no problem

ok for fans and heatsink also, they don't cost too much
overall it's still very cheap

$$$ for Avalon chips most expensive part... scroll back through the thread mentioned several times. Also list of BOM in his github in PDF format.
https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/Parts%20List.pdf


$20.02 per board for 100+ board run his costs.

Also he has design up for Klego... for a 256 set up for daisy chain connected boards. A 40 x 40 configuration. So people with larger orders might be interested in that solution.

https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/KLego.pdf

Thanks for the pdfs... i didnt check his github yet. The KLego... is it for 16 chip-pcbs or for 64 chip pcbs? I have a bigger number of chips ordered too and i would like to go the cheapest and less work route of course.

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May 11, 2013, 04:54:17 PM
 #458

i understand this right

30 board(about 5gh each) at $5 each?

so $150 for 150gh?


Dont forget the ASIC chips themselves!
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May 11, 2013, 05:18:38 PM
 #459

I will help that project because its a DIY project. I don't like those bfl statements and pre-orders anyway.
i have made a PCB for my experiments if i would be lucky and had chips from 1# batch but....

I will wait if somehow manage to find 20 of them

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May 11, 2013, 05:21:02 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2013, 05:40:58 PM by Bicknellski
 #460

psu no problem

ok for fans and heatsink also, they don't cost too much
overall it's still very cheap

$$$ for Avalon chips most expensive part... scroll back through the thread mentioned several times. Also list of BOM in his github in PDF format.
https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/Parts%20List.pdf


$20.02 per board for 100+ board run his costs.

Also he has design up for Klego... for a 256 set up for daisy chain connected boards. A 40 x 40 configuration. So people with larger orders might be interested in that solution.

https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike/blob/master/docs/KLego.pdf

Thanks for the pdfs... i didnt check his github yet. The KLego... is it for 16 chip-pcbs or for 64 chip pcbs? I have a bigger number of chips ordered too and i would like to go the cheapest and less work route of course.

Scrolling through the deal I think would be this Sebastian

20 x 20 boards that have 4 x 16 = K64

Those can then be layered into a 40 x 40 and daisy chained into a K256 chip monster.

Then set up another layer and stack and stack and stack. Have to look back on what he posted on maximum but I have 540 chips so I will want two layers of 8 x K64's.

Ill add what BKKcoins posted in a sec.


Quote
I have a Project Manager project on mouser.com with all the parts in it. Apparently this can be shared but when I checked they require an email to send it to who you will share with. If someone wants that shared too them then PM me your email and I'll plug it in. and it can be accessed at this url:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=b645e5b812

Quote
A K16 will use around 32W, so a K64 will need about 128W each (with 4 leads). They're designed to take a PCIe 6 pin connector much like a GPU. I would guess that you could run a K64 off each PCIe lead from the PSU with splitters to feed each of the 4 sections. I haven't gone to check the specs but they would  handle something like that. I wouldn't have a problem running 4x K64 off my 600W supply. I used to run 3 GPUs at 500W without any issues. I'd say you're better off going that route than using crappy low wattage power adapters for each board, or section of board.  Like with GPUs  stick with solid reliable PSU units like Corsair, preferably high efficiency Gold (90%) rated.

https://109.201.133.65/index.php?topic=190731.msg2060629#msg2060629


Quote
Note that the K64 wouldn't have internal pin hdrs. I would wire those one in the board either as tracks or actual wires, depending on how I panellize (in gerbers or in brd design).

https://109.201.133.65/index.php?topic=190731.msg2092711#msg2092711

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