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Author Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary  (Read 434691 times)
allten
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May 23, 2013, 04:05:17 PM
 #921

I ordered 10 of the PIC16LF1459-I/SS.
If you having a hard time getting a hold of some for prototyping, Email me, I could part with a few.

Who ever is planning on doing bulk orders, might be a good idea to get the order in on these early to
make sure they put their manufacturing efforts into producing some sooner rather than later.
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May 23, 2013, 04:59:07 PM
 #922

Hi Bkk,
I'm not looking to resell the k16 but I am looking to create a bunch of them for myself, I was planning on buying my boards off you. Is there a way I can just pay you a flat rate for the exact number of pics that I'm looking to image? I already know how many boards I'm going to create and it just seems easier this way.
I'm sure it can be arranged. The other idea is something I'm toying with, figuring out.

I'm in the same boat, I'll be happy to compensate you for your work.
I'm looking at building a 64 chip rig right now, that's about as much as I can afford.

edit: in fact, if you could provide a 'parts kit' that you make money on, was what I was expecting. I would like to do the assembly and purchase the avalon chips myself.
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May 23, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
 #923

Ok. I've decided on a scope. The Owon SDS7102 with VGA and LAN module (newer models).
I've been thru the detailed reviews of this model which also explained some of it's failings.

$430 including shipping from China. The Rigol seems almost the same price once shipping is added in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OWON-100Mhz-Oscilloscope-SDS7102-1G-s-large-8-LCD-LAN-VGA-included-3-yrs-wa-/270857241956?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f10598564

(doesn't need to be ebay, Amazon has it and it's on AliEpxress too)

This is only a little more than the Rigol 1052 / 1102 but it has 10M sample storage, which blows away anything else in this class. I think deep storage is going to make a big difference for this project. It will allow me to capture an entire sequence of data going to/from the ASIC in full resolution. With this scope you can capture 1GS/s right down to 1mS/div and then zoom in. Or say with 5nS samples I could record 50mS of data, about 200K of data, easily enough for an entire work unit, even with both channels to compare data. Hands down way more than anything else in this price range.

Other nice things: 8" display with VGA output, and LAN connection to PC (also includes USB device and host modes).
This scope has been reported to show 200MHz input stage bandwidth.


Hi Bkk,
I'm not looking to resell the k16 but I am looking to create a bunch of them for myself, I was planning on buying my boards off you. Is there a way I can just pay you a flat rate for the exact number of pics that I'm looking to image? I already know how many boards I'm going to create and it just seems easier this way.
I'm sure it can be arranged. The other idea is something I'm toying with, figuring out.

I'm in the same boat, I'll be happy to compensate you for your work.
I'm looking at building a 64 chip rig right now, that's about as much as I can afford.

edit: in fact, if you could provide a 'parts kit' that you make money on, was what I was expecting. I would like to do the assembly and purchase the avalon chips myself.

My intention was to make a little by offering kits. So I don't want people to get the wrong idea about what I have in mind regarding locked firmware. That is much more aimed at the companies that want to use my design as a basis for a product. This allows them to take full control of producing it, including programming their own PICs and having their local contract assembler put them together, with warranty, single source, and be able to automate how they donate back to me thru the burn in period. I'm interested in how they feel about that.

For those that want to make their own with a kit, I'm still quite keen to offer that and it would have a programmed PIC in the kit. So there's no extra hassle with any lock in or anything. You'd just order a kit and get the parts/board/instructions ready to build. That's a much more limited and expert segment of users.

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May 23, 2013, 05:53:53 PM
 #924

For those that want to make their own with a kit, I'm still quite keen to offer that and it would have a programmed PIC in the kit. So there's no extra hassle with any lock in or anything. You'd just order a kit and get the parts/board/instructions ready to build. That's a much more limited and expert segment of users.

This is what I'm interested in--as long as you are reasonably confident you could source the required components in time. I wouldn't mind the option of ordering a spare set of parts (or three) as well, to allow room for error.

Now about getting you that oscilloscope. I'd be happy to chip in, who's with me?
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May 23, 2013, 05:57:52 PM
 #925

For those that want to make their own with a kit, I'm still quite keen to offer that and it would have a programmed PIC in the kit. So there's no extra hassle with any lock in or anything. You'd just order a kit and get the parts/board/instructions ready to build. That's a much more limited and expert segment of users.

This is what I'm interested in--as long as you are reasonably confident you could source the required components in time. I wouldn't mind the option of ordering a spare set of parts (or three) as well, to allow room for error.

Now about getting you that oscilloscope. I'd be happy to chip in, who's with me?

Already pledged 0.5 BTC. Just need someone to pass the hat I guess.

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May 23, 2013, 05:58:36 PM
 #926

Ok. I've decided on a scope. The Owon SDS7102 with VGA and LAN module (newer models).
I've been thru the detailed reviews of this model which also explained some of it's failings.

$430 including shipping from China. The Rigol seems almost the same price once shipping is added in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OWON-100Mhz-Oscilloscope-SDS7102-1G-s-large-8-LCD-LAN-VGA-included-3-yrs-wa-/270857241956?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f10598564

(doesn't need to be ebay, Amazon has it and it's on AliEpxress too)

This is only a little more than the Rigol 1052 / 1102 but it has 10M sample storage, which blows away anything else in this class. I think deep storage is going to make a big difference for this project. It will allow me to capture an entire sequence of data going to/from the ASIC in full resolution. With this scope you can capture 1GS/s right down to 1mS/div and then zoom in. Or say with 5nS samples I could record 50mS of data, about 200K of data, easily enough for an entire work unit, even with both channels to compare data. Hands down way more than anything else in this price range.

Other nice things: 8" display with VGA output, and LAN connection to PC (also includes USB device and host modes).
This scope has been reported to show 200MHz input stage bandwidth.

What about the SDS7102V (100MHz)?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=SDS7102&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1&_nkw=SDS7102v&_sacat=0

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May 23, 2013, 05:58:58 PM
 #927

For those that want to make their own with a kit, I'm still quite keen to offer that and it would have a programmed PIC in the kit. So there's no extra hassle with any lock in or anything. You'd just order a kit and get the parts/board/instructions ready to build. That's a much more limited and expert segment of users.

This is what I'm interested in--as long as you are reasonably confident you could source the required components in time. I wouldn't mind the option of ordering a spare set of parts (or three) as well, to allow room for error.

Now about getting you that oscilloscope. I'd be happy to chip in, who's with me?

Already pledged 0.5 BTC. Just need someone to pass the hat I guess.

I'm good for the rest.

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May 23, 2013, 05:59:19 PM
 #928

I'd chip in. Can't read the whole thread. How are we to track it? Also, how would I go about contributing?

Oops - KS beat me to it. Well, I'm interested in helping push the Klondike boards. I need at least 2.

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May 23, 2013, 06:05:06 PM
 #929

So I guess your going to take open source out of the thread title?  I dont have a problem with someone wanting to get paid for their work. Just seems to me that embedding something in a supposed open source project rings alarm bells.

Is it just me?

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May 23, 2013, 06:09:57 PM
 #930

So I guess your going to take open source out of the thread title?  I dont have a problem with someone wanting to get paid for their work. Just seems to me that embedding something in a supposed open source project rings alarm bells.

Is it just me?

Yes. Just you.

The hardware is open-source, and ultimately, the firmware will be too. It always amazes me that people complain about something they can get for free. He's said multiple times that it is open source, as long as people aren't reselling his work (which is a common thing to say). If you are profitting by reselling his work, he deserves to be compensated.

Correction, he deserves to be compensated anyway. But he has a right to demand compensation from the people directly profiting off his work by reselling it.

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May 23, 2013, 06:21:26 PM
 #931

I think that is the same but I don't know what the V means.
Everything in that listing appears identical.

(I'm guessing V is for VGA which used to be an optional extra, but I believe all recent models have the VGA and LAN ports already in)

3 year warranty with free shpg back to China? Now that I don't believe.
But in all my reading so far I haven't found anything bad about it's quality/build.

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May 23, 2013, 07:01:09 PM
 #932

So I guess your going to take open source out of the thread title?  I dont have a problem with someone wanting to get paid for their work. Just seems to me that embedding something in a supposed open source project rings alarm bells.

Is it just me?

Sort of. What you are describing is an open source project that someone does for personal reasons(to build a mining operation, bragging rights, or to even scratch an intellectual itch) , and doesn't mind releasing the code to the community for everyones benefit as well as to get more eyes working on it, so the code can be improved for the original developers personal usage.

But its obvious this is not that. I dont think anyone can devote the amount of time BKK has put in this project for hobby reasons. Also its not unheard off for people to release compiled binaries first and sources later. The firmware would be closed at launch but eventually get opened. That does not make the project to not be called "open source".

Personally I agree bkk should get paid whatever he wants, especially from assemblers building on his design for profit, but I don't like the sound of DRM... Too much time wasted on building unproductive locks... ever notice why MS products sux so bad?

Perhaps do the Android model... where the source is available, but for any integrator to use "Klondike" brandname (or even refer to it in marketing/specs), a royalty must be paid to bkk. This way hobby ppl are not affected, and only people marketing the boards are. I guess the royalty would be a small portion of the cost anyways, no body would be cheap enough to try and skim that.

Just my 2 satoshies

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May 23, 2013, 07:01:51 PM
 #933

I think that is the same but I don't know what the V means.
Everything in that listing appears identical.

(I'm guessing V is for VGA which used to be an optional extra, but I believe all recent models have the VGA and LAN ports already in)

3 year warranty with free shpg back to China? Now that I don't believe.
But in all my reading so far I haven't found anything bad about it's quality/build.

SDS7102 - 60MHz

SDS7102V - 100MHz

I don't know whether there are other diffs.

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May 23, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
 #934

I think that is the same but I don't know what the V means.
Everything in that listing appears identical.

(I'm guessing V is for VGA which used to be an optional extra, but I believe all recent models have the VGA and LAN ports already in)

3 year warranty with free shpg back to China? Now that I don't believe.
But in all my reading so far I haven't found anything bad about it's quality/build.

SDS7102 - 60MHz

SDS7102V - 100MHz

I don't know whether there are other diffs.
Definitely 100MHz and only the newest version as there are old models kicking around without LAN and with less capable input stages. Seems the ones on ebay are a mix of V and no V but have same specs so I guess they're all mixed up.

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May 23, 2013, 07:21:00 PM
 #935


I'm good for the rest.

Awesome. I'm sending over .2 BTC just in case he needs beer (or chips, ha) for the weekend. Thanks again for the hard work you're putting in, Bkk.
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May 23, 2013, 07:33:23 PM
 #936

Perhaps do the Android model... where the source is available, but for any integrator to use "Klondike" brandname (or even refer to it in marketing/specs), a royalty must be paid to bkk. This way hobby ppl are not affected, and only people marketing the boards are. I guess the royalty would be a small portion of the cost anyways, no body would be cheap enough to try and skim that.

I'm still thinking about this. It's a certain amount of useless effort to put in as it requires adding decryption code to the bootloader. That's available now but would still need to be adapted.

This community has been so good with support that I'm really inclined to just throw my hands up and put the code out there and trust some money will come out of it. It's easy to get wrapped up in feelings of being taken advantage of, and personally I don't even wan to think about money. It's part of why I live here in a small Thai village. I got out of all that 11 years ago.

@terrahash,
I don't even know what my target is. I started out thinking $2,000 and then $10,000 for two months 16 hour days work. Then $5,000. Now people are buying me scopes. And to be honest it's fun work for me. But the business aspects aren't. I've told some people $2/unit, and then we just see how many everyone sells. My wife wants me to finish building the house (no floor or ceiling) and I want to get set up doing electronics again as a small "cottage" business.

We'll figure something out.


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May 23, 2013, 07:36:12 PM
 #937

Perhaps do the Android model... where the source is available, but for any integrator to use "Klondike" brandname (or even refer to it in marketing/specs), a royalty must be paid to bkk. This way hobby ppl are not affected, and only people marketing the boards are. I guess the royalty would be a small portion of the cost anyways, no body would be cheap enough to try and skim that.

I'm still thinking about this. It's a certain amount of useless effort to put in as it requires adding decryption code to the bootloader. That's available now but would still need to be adapted.

This community has been so good with support that I'm really inclined to just throw my hands up and put the code out there and trust some money will come out of it. It's easy to get wrapped up in feelings of being taken advantage of, and personally I don't even wan to think about money. It's part of why I live here in a small Thai village. I got out of all that 11 years ago.

@terrahash,
I don't even know what my target is. I started out thinking $2,000 and then $10,000 for two months 16 hour days work. Then $5,000. Now people are buying me scopes. And to be honest it's fun work for me. But the business aspects aren't. I've told some people $2/unit, and then we just see how many everyone sells. My wife wants me to finish building the house (no floor or ceiling) and I want to get set up doing electronics again as a small "cottage" business.

We'll figure something out.



Alright, guys, there you have it. BKK needs a cottage. Let's do this!  Grin

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May 23, 2013, 07:38:22 PM
 #938


I'm good for the rest.

Awesome. I'm sending over .2 BTC just in case he needs beer (or chips, ha) for the weekend. Thanks again for the hard work you're putting in, Bkk.
Thank You! I could use a beer but nowhere to buy at 2:30 am.  Cry Smiley


BTW, I noticed a few Klondike related threads have popped up now. People should know that I'm not reading them all. I'm not really reading much now except here. I'm trying to not spend all day on the forum.

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May 23, 2013, 07:39:17 PM
 #939

My wife wants me to finish building the house (no floor or ceiling)

Mind blown.

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May 23, 2013, 07:47:47 PM
 #940

I have the SDS7102V. It works fine for me but it's the only oscilloscope I have ever owned so I couldn't tell you if its better than the others or not.
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