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Author Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary  (Read 434693 times)
BkkCoins
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June 04, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
 #1221

Is the K16 going to have a connector for the PICKIT 3?
Both the K1 and K16 have exposed ICSP pads for contacting the PICKit 3 pins for programming. I didn't include a full pin header because I'm really expecting it to only be done once this way and often not even once. For kits this wouldn't even be used as the PIC would be pre-programmed in the kit.

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June 04, 2013, 01:39:28 AM
 #1222

I'm wondering is there a piece of hardware we can get to flash the PIC in advance or do we have to wait until the boards are assembled?
You can get a PICKit 3 programmer off ebay for about $45. I'd suggest that as the best low cost option. There are also clones of that unit from some Chinese sellers with mixed results for less money. Once the firmware image is released you could also order them programmed from microchipdirect.com. I'm not sure if there is a minimum qty.

Ideally the PIC will only need to be programmed once with this device so you might just leave it up to an assembler or order them from me or as a kit (which would include programmed parts of course).

Depending on how far I get before release it's possible for a while that firmware upgrades may need one. I'll try to get a USB bootloader added in before initial release so that it can be upgraded over USB after the initial flash. I think there will be time for that as things look now.

I'm happy to order all my parts off you to help add to your buying power but it may not be feasible because of the amount I'm after.
I'm just worried about the diminishing supplies of the PIC and am tempted to order them now to avoid being left out in the cold.
I really don't mind flashing them myself, it's one of the only things I would actually trust myself to do.  Tongue
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June 04, 2013, 11:09:26 PM
 #1223

I know we shouldn't be talking about the BFL chips in this thread but I couldn't resist...I was reading their thread on the BFL site and it is hilarious. Minimum order 100 @ $97 a chip. Payment in BTC preferred (gee I wonder why). They still aren't shipping assembled units in any quantity and people are excited that they can throw more good money after bad  Shocked

BKK thanks so much for these awesome looking designs, I am so excited to have a few K16s in hand in July/August (Steamboat batch 3) Cool

Single board ATX power supply interface for Raspberry Pi: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263567.msg2815917#msg2815917    Like my work? Donations accepted here: 1FXYreNr35PzZVimEQkSzR68EdNutqefYh   I sell on Tindie: https://www.tindie.com/stores/KD8SSF/     Reputation thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264089.0
erk
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June 04, 2013, 11:41:26 PM
 #1224

I know we shouldn't be talking about the BFL chips in this thread but I couldn't resist...I was reading their thread on the BFL site and it is hilarious. Minimum order 100 @ $97 a chip. Payment in BTC preferred (gee I wonder why). They still aren't shipping assembled units in any quantity and people are excited that they can throw more good money after bad  Shocked

BKK thanks so much for these awesome looking designs, I am so excited to have a few K16s in hand in July/August (Steamboat batch 3) Cool
No doubt BFL are doing this purely to be seen as responding to the Avalon offer, with no real business plan around it. It might have a side effect of improving their wafer buy price with increased quantities.

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June 05, 2013, 01:50:55 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2013, 02:03:28 AM by Bicknellski
 #1225

I know we shouldn't be talking about the BFL chips in this thread but I couldn't resist...I was reading their thread on the BFL site and it is hilarious. Minimum order 100 @ $97 a chip. Payment in BTC preferred (gee I wonder why). They still aren't shipping assembled units in any quantity and people are excited that they can throw more good money after bad  Shocked

BKK thanks so much for these awesome looking designs, I am so excited to have a few K16s in hand in July/August (Steamboat batch 3) Cool

You are just inviting a Troll like Erk to derail the thread yet again, he is a professional apologist for BFL, so please keep the BFL junk out of here gentlemen.

Back on thread: ya Steamboat certainly will be pumping out some numbers of K16s I hope it all goes smoothly and we have a working prototype in a few weeks and you get your units fast and start hashing ik2013. Time is going to dilate now... 2 weeks or 4 weeks is going to seem like an eternity.

Has anyone thought about what board controller they are going to use? What do you recommend BKKCoins or what will you be using during prototyping?

  • Raspberry Pi
  • Arduino
  • PC / Laptop
  • BeagleBone
  • Other

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June 05, 2013, 02:14:12 AM
 #1226

I know we shouldn't be talking about the BFL chips in this thread but I couldn't resist...I was reading their thread on the BFL site and it is hilarious. Minimum order 100 @ $97 a chip. Payment in BTC preferred (gee I wonder why). They still aren't shipping assembled units in any quantity and people are excited that they can throw more good money after bad  Shocked

BKK thanks so much for these awesome looking designs, I am so excited to have a few K16s in hand in July/August (Steamboat batch 3) Cool

You are just inviting a Troll like Erk to derail the thread yet again, he is a professional apologist for BFL, so please keep the BFL junk out of here gentlemen.

Back on thread: ya Steamboat certainly will be pumping out some numbers of K16s I hope it all goes smoothly and we have a working prototype in a few weeks and you get your units fast and start hashing ik2013. Time is going to dilate now... 2 weeks or 4 weeks is going to seem like an eternity.

Has anyone thought about what board controller they are going to use? What do you recommend BKKCoins or what will you be using during prototyping?

  • Raspberry Pi
  • Arduino
  • PC / Laptop
  • BeagleBone
  • Other

Roger that. For a real good laugh check out BFL_Josh's post on page 18 of their thread. That's the last I'll say on the subject lol

Personally I am going to use a Raspberry Pi but the BeagleBone would be a good choice as well...I wasn't aware that an Arduino would be up to the task, could you point me to evidence of that?

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erk
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June 05, 2013, 02:25:44 AM
 #1227


I'm happy to order all my parts off you to help add to your buying power but it may not be feasible because of the amount I'm after.
I'm just worried about the diminishing supplies of the PIC and am tempted to order them now to avoid being left out in the cold.
I really don't mind flashing them myself, it's one of the only things I would actually trust myself to do.  Tongue

I just use one of these Pickit 3 clones from eBay to flash my Pic32s, there are a lot of them:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clone-Microchip-Development-Programmer-Mini-PICKIT-3-/350637699036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a3a2afdc

Make sure you get it from a reasonable trader.

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June 05, 2013, 02:30:06 AM
 #1228

Not sure if the Arduino is either... just wondering what others thought.

Love the fact these small units can work to run a server... that is my hope.

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June 05, 2013, 02:39:19 AM
 #1229

I know we shouldn't be talking about the BFL chips in this thread but I couldn't resist...I was reading their thread on the BFL site and it is hilarious. Minimum order 100 @ $97 a chip. Payment in BTC preferred (gee I wonder why). They still aren't shipping assembled units in any quantity and people are excited that they can throw more good money after bad  Shocked

BKK thanks so much for these awesome looking designs, I am so excited to have a few K16s in hand in July/August (Steamboat batch 3) Cool

You are just inviting a Troll like Erk to derail the thread yet again, he is a professional apologist for BFL, so please keep the BFL junk out of here gentlemen.

Back on thread: ya Steamboat certainly will be pumping out some numbers of K16s I hope it all goes smoothly and we have a working prototype in a few weeks and you get your units fast and start hashing ik2013. Time is going to dilate now... 2 weeks or 4 weeks is going to seem like an eternity.

Has anyone thought about what board controller they are going to use? What do you recommend BKKCoins or what will you be using during prototyping?

  • Raspberry Pi
  • Arduino
  • PC / Laptop
  • BeagleBone
  • Other
I just ordered a Raspberry PI and downloaded MinePeon  to SD ram to experiment with.
I am only planning to drive 2 K16 with one PI.
Hopefully some SW developers end up with a K16 to work with.
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June 05, 2013, 02:41:13 AM
 #1230

Not sure if the Arduino is either... just wondering what others thought.

Love the fact these small units can work to run a server... that is my hope.

Well they did just announce the Arduino Yún which has an "embedded Linux machine" but it only comes with 32MB (!) of ram, where the RPi has 512 MB on the model B version. Even the RPi might not be able to handle more than 10 or so K16s before RAM becomes an issue.

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June 05, 2013, 02:44:56 AM
 #1231

Nice! Never heard of MinePeon before going to check this out

EDIT: the thread derail is complete sorry.  xD

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June 05, 2013, 03:21:00 AM
 #1232

Nice! Never heard of MinePeon before going to check this out

EDIT: the thread derail is complete sorry.  xD

I think this is valid...BKKCoins can chime in on development... this is inline definitely. Unlike case design controllers are integral to testing and optimizing the design of the K16 right?

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June 05, 2013, 03:53:13 AM
 #1233

The Arduino won't be suitable for acting as a controller unless you plan on writing your own miner software (cgminer and derivatives will not run on it).

For my project (see sig), I haven't decided between using a low-end Celeron or Raspberry Pi. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Pi.

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erk
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June 05, 2013, 05:07:46 AM
 #1234

The Arduino won't be suitable for acting as a controller unless you plan on writing your own miner software (cgminer and derivatives will not run on it).

For my project (see sig), I haven't decided between using a low-end Celeron or Raspberry Pi. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Pi.

I am going to use an Intel Atom motherboard something like:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/atom/x9/x9sbaa-f.cfm

or

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-di510mo.html

I was considering a Raspberry Pi, but I don't want to restrict the OS choice to just Linux.

The Intel Atom boards are quite low power consumption, although the Mini-ITX footprint is way more than a Raspberry Pi


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June 05, 2013, 06:12:06 AM
 #1235

The Arduino won't be suitable for acting as a controller unless you plan on writing your own miner software (cgminer and derivatives will not run on it).

For my project (see sig), I haven't decided between using a low-end Celeron or Raspberry Pi. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Pi.

I ordered a Pi last week. Got here yesterday afternoon. Haven't played with it yet, but I did download today's build of MinePeon. Smiley

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June 05, 2013, 06:20:41 AM
 #1236

@BkKCoins - Just looking at your BOM on github, can't see the magnetic inductor beads that Avalon have per chip? (I'm trying to work out the current rating needed)

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June 05, 2013, 07:09:21 AM
 #1237

@BkKCoins - Just looking at your BOM on github, can't see the magnetic inductor beads that Avalon have per chip? (I'm trying to work out the current rating needed)
No I missed the ferrite beads as was pointed out up thread a bit. Looks like my initial test board will let me see how it works without those, and later I'll likely add them to a revised board. I can patch a few into the board manually and then scope it to see just what it does, though I expect 300MHz noise isn't going to show as much on my scope. I'll see what I can get. Presumably having them will curb EMI emissions.

There is no documentation on how much current AVDD requires. It must be less than 600mA/10 or 60mA each chip since I think that's the regulator rated max. My guess is that it's a fair bit less, maybe 30mA or less per chip. BitSynCom hasn't said quack, despite my asking, and no one seems to have measured the 3.3V supply line on Avalon boards (which would give a ball park split between this regulator and the I/O lines).


--- Re: other posts above.

I will be testing mostly using my Notebook (Core2Duo) but I have both a RasPi and TL-WR703N on the way. The RasPi will be here this week probably along with a second batch of needed parts (mostly capacitors but also the 1.2V buck reg and some other important stuff). The TL-WR703N will be a couple weeks probably as I ordered it later and paid lowest price to get it here (slow boat from China, literally).

I think the RasPi will make a nice little host and it's pretty cheap. I believe cgminer is already working on that but I haven't really looked into it yet. If there is MinerPeon as well, that's another option, and I can make a driver for that if it doesn't take too much time. The TL-WR703N is cheaper and has some USB flakiness that kind of makes it more hassle but has the advantage that it has Wifi built in so you could have a rig placed somewhere with no LAN cables. I guess a RasPi could too with a Wifi dongle attached. The TL-WR703N was only $23 and includes a power adapter and Wifi but requires a USB hub to function with non-High Speed USB devices but doesn't need an SD card. So it's all kind of mix n match, play around, see what goes best.

This morning I got a PIC wired and tested some basic code and captured output on Logic Analyser. It all worked fine. LEDs blinked and bits twiddled correctly. I'm going to move on next to trying to get it to attach as a USB device and see how well that goes. After that I'll be testing the real Klondike code as it initializes and detects ASIC presence, which involves pushing fake work. It won't find any yet! But I'll force it to think it has some and then watch as it pushes dummy work out. I'm hoping in a few days to have fairly functional firmware, and then turn attention back to the cgminer driver.




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June 05, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
 #1238

@BkKCoins - Just looking at your BOM on github, can't see the magnetic inductor beads that Avalon have per chip? (I'm trying to work out the current rating needed)
No I missed the ferrite beads as was pointed out up thread a bit. Looks like my initial test board will let me see how it works without those, and later I'll likely add them to a revised board. I can patch a few into the board manually and then scope it to see just what it does, though I expect 300MHz noise isn't going to show as much on my scope. I'll see what I can get. Presumably having them will curb EMI emissions.

There is no documentation on how much current AVDD requires. It must be less than 600mA/10 or 60mA each chip since I think that's the regulator rated max. My guess is that it's a fair bit less, maybe 30mA or less per chip. BitSynCom hasn't said quack, despite my asking, and no one seems to have measured the 3.3V supply line on Avalon boards (which would give a ball park split between this regulator and the I/O lines).


--- Re: other posts above.

I will be testing mostly using my Notebook (Core2Duo) but I have both a RasPi and TL-WR703N on the way. The RasPi will be here this week probably along with a second batch of needed parts (mostly capacitors but also the 1.2V buck reg and some other important stuff). The TL-WR703N will be a couple weeks probably as I ordered it later and paid lowest price to get it here (slow boat from China, literally).

I think the RasPi will make a nice little host and it's pretty cheap. I believe cgminer is already working on that but I haven't really looked into it yet. If there is MinerPeon as well, that's another option, and I can make a driver for that if it doesn't take too much time. The TL-WR703N is cheaper and has some USB flakiness that kind of makes it more hassle but has the advantage that it has Wifi built in so you could have a rig placed somewhere with no LAN cables. I guess a RasPi could too with a Wifi dongle attached. The TL-WR703N was only $23 and includes a power adapter and Wifi but requires a USB hub to function with non-High Speed USB devices but doesn't need an SD card. So it's all kind of mix n match, play around, see what goes best.

This morning I got a PIC wired and tested some basic code and captured output on Logic Analyser. It all worked fine. LEDs blinked and bits twiddled correctly. I'm going to move on next to trying to get it to attach as a USB device and see how well that goes. After that I'll be testing the real Klondike code as it initializes and detects ASIC presence, which involves pushing fake work. It won't find any yet! But I'll force it to think it has some and then watch as it pushes dummy work out. I'm hoping in a few days to have fairly functional firmware, and then turn attention back to the cgminer driver.

I can't believe you're doing all this by yourself!
True one-man-army!
Kudos!

Ente
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June 05, 2013, 10:18:35 AM
 #1239

Just to remind people that minepeon uses an old cgminer/bfminer....
Atm you have to recompile the new version onto the pi, which can be a pain....

Yes I also plan to use my pi which runs my fpga's atm...

Sorry to side track, back to the thread Cheesy

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June 05, 2013, 10:19:46 AM
 #1240

It's pretty easy to compile, it's just slow.

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