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Author Topic: Off-Topic  (Read 384408 times)
southerngentuk
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September 30, 2013, 10:20:06 PM
 #4761

Nothing but 100% refunds to everyone this is owed is good enough, neither should it be for any of you either.

Amir, Justin, other principles at TerraHash, your customers, this community owes you nothing! If you took their money, then you owe it back, period, full stop, end of story.

As I have been asking for since June.... Send out the refunds!
+1000000
This was not a group buy, it was run as a business. The Group Buys split the chip purchase and board manufacture to remove the liability.

You guys purchased a product, it was not delivered, nothing else matters, you should receive 100% back or else it is fraud.

You would not except this treatment from Amazon, if they could not deliver your order you would be 100% refunded.

When you start a business you except the losses.

Do Not Except 50%

SUGAR
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fasmax
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September 30, 2013, 10:36:19 PM
 #4762

At this point 50 % back is probably more than you could mine if they were to actually deliver the miners.
Maybe TH should buy the auction chips and build and deliver the miners.
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September 30, 2013, 10:47:33 PM
 #4763

At this point 50 % back is probably more than you could mine if they were to actually deliver the miners.
...

Lol, wiser words never spoken.  I owe you a kitten.
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September 30, 2013, 11:25:54 PM
 #4764

I hope nobody minds a quick off-topic, but out of the people that purchased pre-orders for Terrahash, are any of you still participating in the ASIC race?

A couple months ago, it became crystal clear that this particular race is not worth running anymore. While the new generations coming out now are clearly attractive, just like the ones here, it has to do with timing, and the rapid increase in difficulty. Therefore, I've determined that any ASIC based race is no longer worthwhile.

I still have a decent sized Scyrpt operation that I will continue to grow until circumstances change.

If you are still pursuing ASIC miners, my question for you is what is your end goal?

Great question!

In my case, I had no skin in the early game, because I had no way of doing it. Come about two months from now, that may no longer be true, in which case I will be in the race.

My reasons are more long term than breakeven profit, and somewhat complex. But as briefly as possible, I'll illustrate why I think 6 month positive ROI is not a big factor if you are doing this for something more than just getting more bitcoins in your wallet. (Not that that is an unworthy goal).

First off, there is the issue of making the network more secure. I won't use the phrase "securing the network" because that is impossible. Making it very difficult to take it over is important, though. The national fiat currencies, whatever your political beliefs, have from a technical standpoint been compromised beyond repair.

Which brings me to a lot of why I'm interested in this race, and where I think the ultimate value of mining lies. I want to see bitcoin become a mainstream currency. It's on the brink right now. With proper promotion, or sufficient improper promotion, it will happen soon, or this will have been an interesting and expensive experiment.

I think that most miners don't look at the actual value of transaction fees. That little fraction of a bitcoin that accompanies every transaction, should it go mainstream, will be A LOT of money in a short time. Banks, when they aren't buying governments, run very small margins on most of their transactions. Yet they have always profited handsomely. Prior to massive regulation, the most honest profited very handsomely. Fractional reserve and central regulation destroyed that model (see Greshams law), but the historical fact of it remains.

Bitcoin, by contrast to standard fiat, has no central issuing authority. This is, in my arrogant opinion, it's biggest strength. The bigger the network, the more this becomes a strength. Thus the long term money is in microtransactions AND general acceptance of bitcoin.

Further, if I am generating enough bitcoins with my machines to fund other ventures not related to mining, I can leverage that over a long period to gain financially and on other, perhaps non economic goals. If it cost me more than I make (excluding ROI on equipment, I'm talking operating costs) then it's a losing proposition, but that is an unlikely scenario for a long period of time.

As a general strategy, it is my thought that one could leverage the mining to buy newer, cheaper, and more efficient equipment, first, and then to start building off grid power systems to offset the eventuality of electricity costs overriding profit to much. As part of this strategy, I would be promoting bitcoin as a transactional instrument for practically everything. There are some hurdles to overcome with that, but the biggest one is simply popularity. Use your coins to purchase goods and services, and particularly, advertising. Promote the fuck out of the concept, make it so people at large cannot escape noticing bitcoin, and in the long term mining of coins will become almost irrelevant and definitely secondary to transactional fees and general commerce.

So I think the race is worth it in the short term to be prepared for the longterm. As mining profits decrease, it does not stop the machines from functioning, and those fees transfer in every block. There will come a time, if the concept that Satoshi set out in his paper comes to pass, when the measly block reward simply will be a bonus. For me, the short term race is interesting, exciting, and risky. But the real rewards, for all concerned, are in the long term.
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September 30, 2013, 11:46:15 PM
 #4765

I am tired of this, just give me my 55+% refund so I can get out of here.
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October 01, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
 #4766

Quote
I hope nobody minds a quick off-topic, but out of the people that purchased pre-orders for Terrahash, are any of you still participating in the ASIC race?

Hell No.

Electricity is too high in my area.

I would have to trust someone to host the unit. Fairly charge me for expenses. And honestly send the coins I have due.  Cheesy 

If taxes have to be paid someday, it will likely be income tax with mining.  Instead of capital gains or loss from buying the coins outright.

will you get your rig in time to break even? Not likely from what I've seen.

Some say they want to help keep the coins decentralized. But anyone can just buy the coins if they want. So Bitcoin will be decentralized anyway. And 9 times out of 10 the miner will pay more for his coins through electricity, taxes, hardware and mining pool fees.   
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October 01, 2013, 12:51:56 AM
 #4767

Ok guys, here's the deal. Given the current conditions (rising difficulty, Avalon uncertainty, etc.), a lot of people who ordered chips from Avalon are willing to resell their chips at cost price. This was not true a month ago or so, when we made a deal to acquire two additional orders for a premium (We never bought those orders, but only made a deal to pay a premium once they had chips in hand). We have decided to scrap those deals and instead buy chip orders from people who want to get out by selling their order for the price they paid. We have got 3 offers so far. We will re-open pre-orders after buying these.

We will keep you posted on this development.

Also, all these 3 offers are for May orders.

Case and point.

Lies. Lies. Lies.

Now you're asking us to take a hair cut so that you can ride around in your Bentley?

Use your house sales proceeds to pay your customers back.
Your overhead+ SG&A is nowhere near half a million USD of the $1 Million you took it.

We are not your suga huns. Stop trying to take us however you please.


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kkooks
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October 01, 2013, 12:56:58 AM
 #4768


Abridged: Bull Shit Lies.


Post pictures of all these components.  You claim hundreds of thousands of dollars in components.... if these cannot be returned are you just keeping these?  You should be selling even at loss and giving money to those who you still owe cash.  

Also you are a horrible business. You were the worst company I have ever dealt with on customer service.  Your periods of quietness did not ever add up. You should have seen these problems long ago and changed direction, don't blame anyone else for your failure.  I think it is safe to say this will be your last time working in bitcoin industry.  

I do agree about those posting all Amir's info, even though he is in my opinion a horrible business man.  And in my opinion took salary far longer then anyone should have in this situation (again just a guess), are you still taking salary Amir?  But you should go after him in court if you do, your lawyer will have much better info then what will get posted here.  All the posting his info in public sadly will give him a excuse of saying he was harassed, etc in court.  And that is just a guess that many of you will end up in court with TH. (But to those of you who did that.... it does show you did find something that got to him and that is rare it has seemed)

He cant post pictures or produce invoices, open their books etc because they dont help their case.
He'll be caught in another flat out lie.

What is it now? Lie #12,135 ?

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notlist3d
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October 01, 2013, 01:03:11 AM
 #4769

Ok guys, here's the deal. Given the current conditions (rising difficulty, Avalon uncertainty, etc.), a lot of people who ordered chips from Avalon are willing to resell their chips at cost price. This was not true a month ago or so, when we made a deal to acquire two additional orders for a premium (We never bought those orders, but only made a deal to pay a premium once they had chips in hand). We have decided to scrap those deals and instead buy chip orders from people who want to get out by selling their order for the price they paid. We have got 3 offers so far. We will re-open pre-orders after buying these.

We will keep you posted on this development.

Also, all these 3 offers are for May orders.

Case and point.

Lies. Lies. Lies.

Now you're asking us to take a hair cut so that you can ride around in your Bentley?

Use your house sales proceeds to pay your customers back.
Your overhead+ SG&A is nowhere near half a million USD of the $1 Million you took it.

We are not your suga huns. Stop trying to take us however you please.


They have incentive to run slow at this point, and the incentive has been there for quiet a while.  I would guess Amir is taking in salary everyday (and I still am curious how much he put as his salary but with private business unless comes out in court we will never know).  

Also the parts that can not be refunded has TH answered what will happen to these?  They should be sold even at a loss to give more money back to all.  (assuming they truly were bought... which no proof has been shown to quantity talked about)

Think about this if TH truly has parts purchased and sitting somewhere (Assuming the next gen chip will work with them). They might be thinking about sitting on parts ... come out as new bushiness superhash 2.0 (or something) and attempt again with just chip costs, making massive profits.
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October 01, 2013, 01:17:53 AM
 #4770

Quote
Think about this if TH truly has parts purchased and sitting somewhere (Assuming the next gen chip will work with them). They might be thinking about sitting on parts ... come out as new bushiness superhash 2.0 (or something) and attempt again with just chip costs, making massive profits.


That's a thought. But I don't think so. The klondike boards haven't been proven to work yet. They would have to get another design. Very unlikely the new design would use a significant % of the same component values.
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October 01, 2013, 01:23:09 AM
 #4771


Abridged
Think about this if TH truly has parts purchased and sitting somewhere (Assuming the next gen chip will work with them). They might be thinking about sitting on parts ... come out as new bushiness superhash 2.0 (or something) and attempt again with just chip costs, making massive profits.

From how he listed his house for sale in late July, it doesnt seem like his intent is to stick around for long.
Banks probably locked down his account (might need to check if this is at all true-- Terrahash isnt good at honest statements) because he was cashing out too much bitcoins into his bank-- IMHO missed details on transactions beyond 10K per money laundering laws

Either that he was already under legal troubles from someone smart and fast enough to execute an asset freeze

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Bitoy
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October 01, 2013, 02:21:10 AM
 #4772

Checked my account at terrahash and it says my order is refunded.   

But I haven't received anything.  Anyone received a refund yet?
justmyname
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October 01, 2013, 02:43:16 AM
 #4773

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.

Bitoy
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October 01, 2013, 03:05:16 AM
Last edit: October 01, 2013, 03:15:20 AM by Bitoy
 #4774

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.



No funds yet on my paypal.  (#683)

I was able to reopen a dispute last week (even if it is over 45 days). But today paypal closed it.

When I called paypal , the dispute was closed because the seller didn't reply. And so they money stays with the terrahash.

notlist3d
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October 01, 2013, 03:24:54 AM
 #4775

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.



No funds yet on my paypal.  (#683)

I was able to reopen a dispute last week (even if it is over 45 days). But today paypal closed it.

When I called paypal , the dispute was closed because the seller didn't reply. And so they money stays with the terrahash.



This is speaking from months ago so it could have changed.  But their order system was set up where if there was a dispute it automatically showed on TH's order page refunded.

Call paypal again, if it is truly closed and you won the dispute it took me 10-15 minutes on phone and they were able to put it in my account (and this was months ago so within the 45 days so could be off/and or changed).  But i would try calling again.
justmyname
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October 01, 2013, 04:53:12 AM
 #4776

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.



No funds yet on my paypal.  (#683)

I was able to reopen a dispute last week (even if it is over 45 days). But today paypal closed it.

When I called paypal , the dispute was closed because the seller didn't reply. And so they money stays with the terrahash.




If the Seller doesn't reply. You win the dispute. The money should go to you. How did you pay? If CC, it should show up there etc. .
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October 01, 2013, 05:14:36 AM
 #4777

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.



No funds yet on my paypal.  (#683)

I was able to reopen a dispute last week (even if it is over 45 days). But today paypal closed it.

When I called paypal , the dispute was closed because the seller didn't reply. And so they money stays with the terrahash.




If the Seller doesn't reply. You win the dispute. The money should go to you. How did you pay? If CC, it should show up there etc. .

When i called paypal the agent said the seller didnt respond but when i checked the dispute details it says

Oct 1, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
Sep 29, 2013 - PayPal: Case closed
Sep 29, 2013 - Buyer: Complaint cancelled
Sep 22, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
Sep 22, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
Sep 22, 2013 - Buyer: Complaint Case filed

According to the agent it is over 45 days im not covered by the "Paypal Buyer Protection".  I paid using paypal funds. 

They advised me to file at Ic3.gov. 
justmyname
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October 01, 2013, 05:27:34 AM
 #4778

Just checked my account. Status refunded. But I charged back on my credit card so it's legit. Check your Pay Pal account or however you paid.



No funds yet on my paypal.  (#683)

I was able to reopen a dispute last week (even if it is over 45 days). But today paypal closed it.

When I called paypal , the dispute was closed because the seller didn't reply. And so they money stays with the terrahash.




If the Seller doesn't reply. You win the dispute. The money should go to you. How did you pay? If CC, it should show up there etc. .

When i called paypal the agent said the seller didnt respond but when i checked the dispute details it says

Oct 1, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
Sep 29, 2013 - PayPal: Case closed
Sep 29, 2013 - Buyer: Complaint cancelled
Sep 22, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
Sep 22, 2013 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
Sep 22, 2013 - Buyer: Complaint Case filed

According to the agent it is over 45 days im not covered by the "Paypal Buyer Protection".  I paid using paypal funds. 

They advised me to file at Ic3.gov. 


It looks like you may have "by accident" cancelled your own complaint. Sep 29, 2013 - Buyer: Complaint cancelled

You'll have to Call Pay Pal and tell them.
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October 01, 2013, 02:16:45 PM
 #4779

Wow looking at the genesis block it looks like we are better off getting the 5 btc per K64 as there is no way to ever even touch ROI even if we got the boards today.

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October 01, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
 #4780

I hope nobody minds a quick off-topic, but out of the people that purchased pre-orders for Terrahash, are any of you still participating in the ASIC race?

A couple months ago, it became crystal clear that this particular race is not worth running anymore. While the new generations coming out now are clearly attractive, just like the ones here, it has to do with timing, and the rapid increase in difficulty. Therefore, I've determined that any ASIC based race is no longer worthwhile.

I still have a decent sized Scyrpt operation that I will continue to grow until circumstances change.

If you are still pursuing ASIC miners, my question for you is what is your end goal?

I'm done with the asic race I think, I haven't followed the difficulty in about 3 weeks and looking at what's going to happen in the next 3 months I think I'm bailing out until Feb or even April of next year when it levels off.

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