Off-Topic

[Axion_Zen]

Wow in one day TH lol.  First off they claim low HW rate.... but see how they dont show it?   Yea we have a low HW error rate...... yea....

They have failed at making HW, so they now are going host for another company?  Chances are your order money is being used for this deal, assuming it's not another announcement just to stall.

Well played Amir never saw your announcement coming saying you are going to buy other companies hardware and host it.   So does this mean TH is out of the HW making industry assuming they were ever in it?

producing the hardware is easy..they are being stuck with bkks unfinished work...ultimately the firmware should have been finished by now..bkk is nowhere..

[1714123532]

1714123532

[1714123532]

1714123532

[bluefin]

thread unwatched
hands washed
unhappy... wanted TH to come through, was an avid supporter.

Good for you!
These people do not deserve your hard earned money!


It's clear now that Terrahash are engaging in dishonest business practices.

If they were not, they would be happy to refund customers who are no longer willing to wait. We get they had Avalon issues, but this is no excuse for not refunding customers as required by the law. They continue to not only ignore refund requests (against the law), but nearly any and all communications have virtually ceased via email, phone, their own support contact system on the website, in addition they have broken nearly every single promise to date, and continue to lie to the community about who they are, what the are doing and when their own customers can see any type of resolution.

It turns out anyone can file a complaint with the FTC, not just US based customers. Terrahash could be liable for a fine of $16,000 for each violation (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279330.0)

File a complaint right now at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ - Many people already have filed complaints over the last few days and weeks.

The FTC uses statistical analysis to detect fraud and helps them decide who to devote time prosecuting. Let's pull out the big guns. This will either turn Terrahash into an honest company and provide remedy to their customers, or make them face the consequences. We need complaints in numbers, so if you have been ripped off or treated badly, we need you.

Terrahash are sullying the reputation of Bitcoin. We must all stick together and help clean this mess up. Report your dissatisfaction to the the US Federal Trade Commission today at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ and help the entire bitcoin community.

[newguy05]

They did give a 100% refund in 3 months option for anyone that wants it. That's not too bad.

3 month + days already lost = exactly the amount of time credit card companies will disallow a chargeback.

i am just going to call this a scam out right, and you are a tool.

thread unwatched too, anyone still havent charged back with credit card is a lost cause. Everyone who paid with btc/wire, i am sorry.

[atomicchaos]

Holding out unwatching this for the last remaining test of having the chips they were sent by someone here turned around in the promised two weeks. If they can't successfully do it for a single order, abandon all hope, as how would they do it with the full shipment?

After that, we'll see the same strategy as was used with the Cloudhashing refund... Generate other pre-orders to fund the refunds.

Then there will be nothing to see here except Bar going down with the ship. He won't ever admit to making a mistake, he'd rather blame the customers. Whether you're on the side of the fence to call buyers investors, or customers, you'l have to agree that they've committed business suicide by misleading comments, lack of follow through on promises (however minor), and poor communications.

Unhappy customers / investors is the death of a business, and while some may have had unrealistic expectations, anyone with a brain will see that they have no business being in business.

[gwoplock]

thread unwatched
hands washed
unhappy... wanted TH to come through, was an avid supporter.

Good for you!
These people do not deserve your hard earned money!


It's clear now that Terrahash are engaging in dishonest business practices.

If they were not, they would be happy to refund customers who are no longer willing to wait. We get they had Avalon issues, but this is no excuse for not refunding customers as required by the law. They continue to not only ignore refund requests (against the law), but nearly any and all communications have virtually ceased via email, phone, their own support contact system on the website, in addition they have broken nearly every single promise to date, and continue to lie to the community about who they are, what the are doing and when their own customers can see any type of resolution.

It turns out anyone can file a complaint with the FTC, not just US based customers. Terrahash could be liable for a fine of $16,000 for each violation (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279330.0)

File a complaint right now at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ - Many people already have filed complaints over the last few days and weeks.

The FTC uses statistical analysis to detect fraud and helps them decide who to devote time prosecuting. Let's pull out the big guns. This will either turn Terrahash into an honest company and provide remedy to their customers, or make them face the consequences. We need complaints in numbers, so if you have been ripped off or treated badly, we need you.

Terrahash are sullying the reputation of Bitcoin. We must all stick together and help clean this mess up. Report your dissatisfaction to the the US Federal Trade Commission today at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ and help the entire bitcoin community.

here is the problum with that. the reason TH has no money for refunds is becouse they bought the supplys (other than chips) with that money. do you think TH can make money out of thin air?

[krayzie32]

They did give a 100% refund in 3 months option for anyone that wants it. That's not too bad.

3 month + days already lost = exactly the amount of time credit card companies will disallow a chargeback.

i am just going to call this a scam out right, and you are a tool.

thread unwatched too, anyone still havent charged back with credit card is a lost cause. Everyone who paid with btc/wire, i am sorry.

Credit card companies will allow chargebacks for at least 6 months and will go longer if needed with proof of fault (not receiving item).

[atomicchaos]

here is the problum with that. the reason TH has no money for refunds is becouse they bought the supplys (other than chips) with that money. do you think TH can make money out of thin air?

I guess you shouldn't start a business without capital, or a business plan. I have no idea how anyone can feel badly for TH with their lousy treatment of those that funded them. Especially seeing that they aren't answering anyone on refunds, but instead moving ahead with yet another plan to get more funding. They didn't buy everything, remaining funds should be returned on request, even if partial, but they need to answer people. They are digging their own hole. The community would have rallied behind them completely if they pulled us in, and many offers were made to help them with their customer service problem.

I would guess that 80-90% of the customers here would have helped in any way had they asked and kept us informed. That's how a community works.

[jc328]

They did give a 100% refund in 3 months option for anyone that wants it. That's not too bad.

3 month + days already lost = exactly the amount of time credit card companies will disallow a chargeback.

i am just going to call this a scam out right, and you are a tool.

thread unwatched too, anyone still havent charged back with credit card is a lost cause. Everyone who paid with btc/wire, i am sorry.

Credit card companies will allow chargebacks for at least 6 months and will go longer if needed with proof of fault (not receiving item).

This is generally true although each CC will have its own policy.  It is not unheard of with people charging back well past the time frame, so I do not believe that was their intention. 

From my understanding, other factors to consider are cost of the charge back and quality of the client (banking history, etc.) after the deadline.

[ezisdog]

here is the problum with that. the reason TH has no money for refunds is becouse they bought the supplys (other than chips) with that money. do you think TH can make money out of thin air?

I guess you shouldn't start a business without capital, or a business plan. I have no idea how anyone can feel badly for TH with their lousy treatment of those that funded them. Especially seeing that they aren't answering anyone on refunds, but instead moving ahead with yet another plan to get more funding. They didn't buy everything, remaining funds should be returned on request, even if partial, but they need to answer people. They are digging their own hole. The community would have rallied behind them completely if they pulled us in, and many offers were made to help them with their customer service problem.

I would guess that 80-90% of the customers here would have helped in any way had they asked and kept us informed. That's how a community works.

Exactly!

What happened in the last 2 days is serious: HW problems and a new service with new pre-order.

@Bargraphics,

I wrote "If a refund is not possible (...)". So if it is, my decision is clear. As a costumer i had the right to get emails (plural!) with the news update. That information shouldn't be only on a fórum.
You judge too fast.
You're rude and arrogant. I'm not from any country of the commonwealth so english is not my native language. I do my best, ok?

P.S.: Refund requested to TH.

[Axion_Zen]

here is the problum with that. the reason TH has no money for refunds is becouse they bought the supplys (other than chips) with that money. do you think TH can make money out of thin air?

I guess you shouldn't start a business without capital, or a business plan. I have no idea how anyone can feel badly for TH with their lousy treatment of those that funded them. Especially seeing that they aren't answering anyone on refunds, but instead moving ahead with yet another plan to get more funding. They didn't buy everything, remaining funds should be returned on request, even if partial, but they need to answer people. They are digging their own hole. The community would have rallied behind them completely if they pulled us in, and many offers were made to help them with their customer service problem.

I would guess that 80-90% of the customers here would have helped in any way had they asked and kept us informed. That's how a community works.

Exactly!

What happened in the last 2 days is serious: HW problems and a new service with new pre-order.

@Bargraphics,

I wrote "If a refund is not possible (...)". So if it is, my decision is clear. As a costumer i had the right to get emails (plural!) with the news update. That information shouldn't be only on a fórum.
You judge too fast.
You're rude and arrogant. I'm not from any country of the commonwealth so english is not my native language. I do my best, ok?

P.S.: Refund requested to TH.

Actually they stated single k16 hashing with less than 1% errors....they only need the board to board code which BKK has not done at all, so they have to code it themselves..

[Bitcoinorama]

At the risk of being called a TerraHash shill, I am making the following statement.

I know it sucks for all of you who ordered from them. I feel lucky that I did not, but I almost did. Complaining to FTC, or FBI, IC3, Attorney General, BBB or whatever else Bitcoinorama is suggesting, is going to do NOTHING! These agengies investigate for fraud, and from the looks of it, TerraHash did not do anything illegal. Your situation with them is purely a civil matter. Yes, by law they ARE required to refund, when asked. But refusing a refund is not a crime. It is a breach of contract. Which is a civil matter. Even if the FBI opens an inquiry against them, as long as they have the bills/receipts to prove that they paid for the chips and the components (which I believe they have), there is nothing FBI can do about it. From my calculations, and a recent comment of Amir in this thread, I estimate they invested 50% of the money in the chips, 30% in components, 10% office and miscellaneous and 10% in salary. If FBI comes and looks at their books (assuming they have been maintaining their accounts), they would not find any illegal activity. It would be waste of their time and tax-payer money. My suggestion to you guys is to pool money together, and hire a lawyer and file a civil lawsuit against them. Definitely, you will get a judgement against them. But we all know what the outcome of that will be. TerraHash will dissolve and file for bankruptcy. The judge would not hold the office-bearers of the company liable. Even if they have any money in the company's accounts, I am assuming they already owe a lot to PayPal right now because of all the chargebacks. So, in the end you will probably get 5-10% of your money back.

We all know they got screwed by Avalon, but even if they didn't and it was 100% their mistake, they did not do any crime. Collecting money from customers and investing it in wrong place (as long as there are no fraudulent intentions) is not a crime.

Yo, sorry what am I suggesting?! Where the f**k did you get that? Don't you dare go putting words in my mouth chump.

I said call your issuing bank if you paid by ccard. Where the hell did you get your screwed up assumption from?

[knightlife999]

Hi Amir.

Two questions:

1. Are we going to be given our 20% discount codes before next week so we can apply them to the hosted miner purchases?

2. Are any of your chip orders showing as being in "preshipping" status? Sebastianju and others are reporting that theirs are, and you have some orders that are before theirs.

[btceic]

Time is about halfway up, Amir, you gonna work late tonight and all through the weekend?

Where is Terrahash? They are not responding to emails, tickets, voice call (mail box still not setup).
They are obviously monitoring the forum though.

Let it be known that Terrahash has my chips today. So the two weeks clock starts now.
I need to know what size and spec of fan to buy but I can't find the info as terrahash is not responding to anything.

Looks like someone called TH's bluff.
Now we will see...

Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-13+24:00:00EDT

[syncer]

Finally i´m not getting,
it will be possible convert current order to new offer?
And what about this 20% coupons?

[Axion_Zen]

From other thread by Bitsyncom:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

[gbx]

From other thread by Bitsyncom:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

So what's the deal.  Are the chips going to be so late that he's giving everyone a refund?  Are the chip shipments expected to encounter continued delays or are the refunds damage control for credibility?

[zurg]

From other thread by Bitsyncom:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

So what's the deal.  Are the chips going to be so late that he's giving everyone a refund?  Are the chip shipments expected to encounter continued delays or are the refunds damage control for credibility?

He should give 1/2 refund to all at this point just to start.

[notlist3d]

Anyone else find it funny that they not only are moving to a hosting company.... but they are not making the hardware themselves.

If they had trust in their abilities they would be building the equipment that their hosting company will have....... assuming they ever make it up to a working hosting company.

[Bitoy]

From other thread by Bitsyncom:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

So what's the deal.  Are the chips going to be so late that he's giving everyone a refund?  Are the chip shipments expected to encounter continued delays or are the refunds damage control for credibility?

1. Chips that arrived on Wednesday are maybe for those who ordered from April 17  (zefir batch 3 date) onwards.

2.  Those who ordered chips after  June 1 can get a full refund.  This probably means they don't have the chips  for June orders. ( Another few weeks delay for terrahash June order.)

[suryc]

From other thread by Bitsyncom:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

Where's the thread that says this?