Off-Topic

[bitcoin carpenter]

Has anyone got a response from TH legal or otherwise yet

[atomicchaos]

It's amazing how many different ways a Federal Wire Fraud charge can be applied, obviously this law is meant as a "catch-all" for grey areas without laws covering them. Not a fan of this law really, as it's abused to go after people with weak cases against them, but this is one area it would be very useful. Just based on the posts on this very thread, stating actions on behalf of the company, but not following through could be a treasure for a case.

It would be wise for TH to provide an update, when you collect that amount of assets from others and promise them something in return, but then go dark, it becomes a very appealing case. In fact, those of you that like to get there face out there, should contact some major news media, they'd love to run a story on 20/20 or such to cover the "dark" side of bitcoin and the scams that exist. Whether or not you still debate if this was a scam or not, it's clear that there was intent to mislead.

[notlist3d]

Hi all, finally on board here so I can ask my fellow TH victims:

1. has anyone actually got their paypal refund? i tried the previously posted advice and paypal are stonewalling me with the 45 day thing. I mentioned others got a refund and it got their attention, but if i had some examples of other cases it would bolster my case i think.

2. id like to start a collective course of action against terrahash. if we club together to do something and use a % of the collective refund amount to fund any action, it would be more effective than solo action. ie i was only stung for a $950 board, i dont think im going to see a 50% refund, and from what i hear around these parts, Amir and co prob still have our BTC and theyre worth more than enough now to cover us all. I for one would be happy to give 5% of my $950 to do something about this, rather than hope for half of that to never arrive.

So, would be in? Suggestions on what kind of action and other aspects welcome (no, not considering silk road style 'hit' on him!).

1. Some have gotten lucky past 45 days, but at this point I'm willing to bet TH owes paypal money.  Hard to get it at this point, a lot of luck.

2. Sadly i think a class action suit will be hard to organize.   Most will have more luck as individual.  But a class action would be final blow for them to actually close shop.

1. but i heard their pp account was frozen at some stage, do we know if it was unfrozen? if its still frozen then he cant move the payments so theres still a chance of pp directly refunding.

2. if collective legal action isnt worth it maybe we all hire a hacker to crack open his btc wallet:) whatever we can do i think we should do sooner rather than later because a, there might still be a chance of getting our 'dues', the longer we wait the less chance of anything and b, doing nothing is basically accepting it (something i dont think we should do until we at least know the status of amir and his legal situation and where the moniez is at!!)

1. It was frozen at first when doing pre-orders.  Yes it was working at one point.  I would guess they have zero in paypal, and possibly owe them money.

2. dont do something like this..... it would only hurt those with legal actions.   Dont give him reason to sound like a victim.

[CommanderVenus]

So i finally got my money back through paypal.

Like some previous posts said, if you get turned down because you missed the time window to file a claim, just call back and try to get someone else that will help you.

Explain to them that they havent shipped to anyone that ordered from them and they are most likely a fraudulent seller.

I wound up filing mine under "didnt receive goods" and still got my money back. They escalate your claim manually on the phone and then terrahash has ten days to respond. They wont of course.

Then you can watch in your resolution center from the paypal site. My claim actually went to 13 days and it still said "waiting on seller to reply." I gave paypal a call and the person that i talked to told me that they would close it and i would get my money back and an email within the next ten minutes. Two days went by with nothing changing so i called paypal again, went through the same conversation with someone else and told them about how it didnt get resolved two days before hand. They apologized and told me that they would stay on the line as they closed the claim. They did and i got 250 credited to my paypal.

The moral of the story is, paypal isnt perfect. The deterrence of escalating a claim after the time window is probably in place for good reason, but in this case we legitimately got fucked over and we need to let paypal understand it.

[gjgjg]

So i finally got my money back through paypal.

Like some previous posts said, if you get turned down because you missed the time window to file a claim, just call back and try to get someone else that will help you.

Explain to them that they havent shipped to anyone that ordered from them and they are most likely a fraudulent seller.

I wound up filing mine under "didnt receive goods" and still got my money back. They escalate your claim manually on the phone and then terrahash has ten days to respond. They wont of course.

Then you can watch in your resolution center from the paypal site. My claim actually went to 13 days and it still said "waiting on seller to reply." I gave paypal a call and the person that i talked to told me that they would close it and i would get my money back and an email within the next ten minutes. Two days went by with nothing changing so i called paypal again, went through the same conversation with someone else and told them about how it didnt get resolved two days before hand. They apologized and told me that they would stay on the line as they closed the claim. They did and i got 250 credited to my paypal.

The moral of the story is, paypal isnt perfect. The deterrence of escalating a claim after the time window is probably in place for good reason, but in this case we legitimately got fucked over and we need to let paypal understand it.

thanks for posting that, are you going through paypal US? did you talk to fraud or normal resolution staff? how far outside the 45day window were you?
sorry for the interrogation, just looking for some ammo to help with my next call:)

[gjgjg]

Hi all, finally on board here so I can ask my fellow TH victims:

1. has anyone actually got their paypal refund? i tried the previously posted advice and paypal are stonewalling me with the 45 day thing. I mentioned others got a refund and it got their attention, but if i had some examples of other cases it would bolster my case i think.

2. id like to start a collective course of action against terrahash. if we club together to do something and use a % of the collective refund amount to fund any action, it would be more effective than solo action. ie i was only stung for a $950 board, i dont think im going to see a 50% refund, and from what i hear around these parts, Amir and co prob still have our BTC and theyre worth more than enough now to cover us all. I for one would be happy to give 5% of my $950 to do something about this, rather than hope for half of that to never arrive.

So, would be in? Suggestions on what kind of action and other aspects welcome (no, not considering silk road style 'hit' on him!).

1. Some have gotten lucky past 45 days, but at this point I'm willing to bet TH owes paypal money.  Hard to get it at this point, a lot of luck.

2. Sadly i think a class action suit will be hard to organize.   Most will have more luck as individual.  But a class action would be final blow for them to actually close shop.

1. but i heard their pp account was frozen at some stage, do we know if it was unfrozen? if its still frozen then he cant move the payments so theres still a chance of pp directly refunding.

2. if collective legal action isnt worth it maybe we all hire a hacker to crack open his btc wallet:) whatever we can do i think we should do sooner rather than later because a, there might still be a chance of getting our 'dues', the longer we wait the less chance of anything and b, doing nothing is basically accepting it (something i dont think we should do until we at least know the status of amir and his legal situation and where the moniez is at!!)

1. It was frozen at first when doing pre-orders.  Yes it was working at one point.  I would guess they have zero in paypal, and possibly owe them money.

2. dont do something like this..... it would only hurt those with legal actions.   Dont give him reason to sound like a victim.

1. what makes you think so? not being aggressive, genuinely am interested as i would have thought pp account was still frozen so the funds still there.
2. maybe a last resort - after the legal action decides against him, but still cant get our money back (eg SR case) ;p

[CommanderVenus]

So i finally got my money back through paypal.

Like some previous posts said, if you get turned down because you missed the time window to file a claim, just call back and try to get someone else that will help you.

Explain to them that they havent shipped to anyone that ordered from them and they are most likely a fraudulent seller.

I wound up filing mine under "didnt receive goods" and still got my money back. They escalate your claim manually on the phone and then terrahash has ten days to respond. They wont of course.

Then you can watch in your resolution center from the paypal site. My claim actually went to 13 days and it still said "waiting on seller to reply." I gave paypal a call and the person that i talked to told me that they would close it and i would get my money back and an email within the next ten minutes. Two days went by with nothing changing so i called paypal again, went through the same conversation with someone else and told them about how it didnt get resolved two days before hand. They apologized and told me that they would stay on the line as they closed the claim. They did and i got 250 credited to my paypal.

The moral of the story is, paypal isnt perfect. The deterrence of escalating a claim after the time window is probably in place for good reason, but in this case we legitimately got fucked over and we need to let paypal understand it.

thanks for posting that, are you going through paypal US? did you talk to fraud or normal resolution staff? how far outside the 45day window were you?
sorry for the interrogation, just looking for some ammo to help with my next call:)

Im in the US and i use paypal.com, i guess that means paypal US right? I think yeah.. haha

I originally put my order through on 6/19/2013. I was one of the people that got first access to order because i had an account prior to them opening sales.

10/16/2013 is when i tried to open a case through the website, only to be closed immediately. "The claim is closed because it was opened more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet the filing criteria."

10/17/2013 is when i called paypal to make a claim and escalate it. I had told them that i didnt receive my product and that the seller hasnt sent anything out to anyone and it is highly likely that they are a fraudulent seller. They put my claim through and i had to wait ten days for terrahash to have a chance to respond.

10/31/2013 i called to get it closed because it had been more than ten days, only for nothing to resolve from it. Must have been a bad paypal employee or someone new or careless. Who knows.

11/2/2013 is when i called and got the refund initiated. The day later $250 was credited to my paypal account and the case was closed.

[btceic]

So i finally got my money back through paypal.

Like some previous posts said, if you get turned down because you missed the time window to file a claim, just call back and try to get someone else that will help you.

Explain to them that they havent shipped to anyone that ordered from them and they are most likely a fraudulent seller.

I wound up filing mine under "didnt receive goods" and still got my money back. They escalate your claim manually on the phone and then terrahash has ten days to respond. They wont of course.

Then you can watch in your resolution center from the paypal site. My claim actually went to 13 days and it still said "waiting on seller to reply." I gave paypal a call and the person that i talked to told me that they would close it and i would get my money back and an email within the next ten minutes. Two days went by with nothing changing so i called paypal again, went through the same conversation with someone else and told them about how it didnt get resolved two days before hand. They apologized and told me that they would stay on the line as they closed the claim. They did and i got 250 credited to my paypal.

The moral of the story is, paypal isnt perfect. The deterrence of escalating a claim after the time window is probably in place for good reason, but in this case we legitimately got fucked over and we need to let paypal understand it.

thanks for posting that, are you going through paypal US? did you talk to fraud or normal resolution staff? how far outside the 45day window were you?
sorry for the interrogation, just looking for some ammo to help with my next call:)

Im in the US and i use paypal.com, i guess that means paypal US right? I think yeah.. haha

I originally put my order through on 6/19/2013. I was one of the people that got first access to order because i had an account prior to them opening sales.

10/16/2013 is when i tried to open a case through the website, only to be closed immediately. "The claim is closed because it was opened more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet the filing criteria."

10/17/2013 is when i called paypal to make a claim and escalate it. I had told them that i didnt receive my product and that the seller hasnt sent anything out to anyone and it is highly likely that they are a fraudulent seller. They put my claim through and i had to wait ten days for terrahash to have a chance to respond.

10/31/2013 i called to get it closed because it had been more than ten days, only for nothing to resolve from it. Must have been a bad paypal employee or someone new or careless. Who knows.

11/2/2013 is when i called and got the refund initiated. The day later $250 was credited to my paypal account and the case was closed.

Glad to hear people are still getting their money back!

[senor_coconut]

So i finally got my money back through paypal.

Like some previous posts said, if you get turned down because you missed the time window to file a claim, just call back and try to get someone else that will help you.

Explain to them that they havent shipped to anyone that ordered from them and they are most likely a fraudulent seller.

I wound up filing mine under "didnt receive goods" and still got my money back. They escalate your claim manually on the phone and then terrahash has ten days to respond. They wont of course.

Then you can watch in your resolution center from the paypal site. My claim actually went to 13 days and it still said "waiting on seller to reply." I gave paypal a call and the person that i talked to told me that they would close it and i would get my money back and an email within the next ten minutes. Two days went by with nothing changing so i called paypal again, went through the same conversation with someone else and told them about how it didnt get resolved two days before hand. They apologized and told me that they would stay on the line as they closed the claim. They did and i got 250 credited to my paypal.

The moral of the story is, paypal isnt perfect. The deterrence of escalating a claim after the time window is probably in place for good reason, but in this case we legitimately got fucked over and we need to let paypal understand it.

thanks for posting that, are you going through paypal US? did you talk to fraud or normal resolution staff? how far outside the 45day window were you?
sorry for the interrogation, just looking for some ammo to help with my next call:)

Im in the US and i use paypal.com, i guess that means paypal US right? I think yeah.. haha

I originally put my order through on 6/19/2013. I was one of the people that got first access to order because i had an account prior to them opening sales.

10/16/2013 is when i tried to open a case through the website, only to be closed immediately. "The claim is closed because it was opened more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet the filing criteria."

10/17/2013 is when i called paypal to make a claim and escalate it. I had told them that i didnt receive my product and that the seller hasnt sent anything out to anyone and it is highly likely that they are a fraudulent seller. They put my claim through and i had to wait ten days for terrahash to have a chance to respond.

10/31/2013 i called to get it closed because it had been more than ten days, only for nothing to resolve from it. Must have been a bad paypal employee or someone new or careless. Who knows.

11/2/2013 is when i called and got the refund initiated. The day later $250 was credited to my paypal account and the case was closed.

Glad to hear people are still getting their money back!

Some questions:

Any non-paypal money being returned? [Won't even ask about BTC payments...]

Any way to contact TH?

Any advice for suckers like me people who paid with BTC? Internet Crime Complaint a stupid idea?

Thanks for any help!
 

[flowdab]

The most fucked up part of this entire situation is that they are likely sitting on loads of BTC making thousands and thousands of dollars and yet they refuse to refund any of their customers.

[kendog77]

The most fucked up part of this entire situation is that they are likely sitting on loads of BTC making thousands and thousands of dollars and yet they refuse to refund any of their customers.

I agree. Since Terrahash never actually produced or shipped a product, they likely made more money by failing then they would have made if they managed to stay in business and fulfill their orders.

They are forced to provide Paypal refunds, but are keeping money paid by BTC or wire transfer. Basically, they are profiting from "failing", which is pretty fucked up.

[krayzie32]

For the love of god, how about this TH:  You got refunded 5 coins per K64 from Yifu.  You give us 3.5 coins (70%) and you keep 1.5 coins for all the parts that you paid already (you can then sell the parts for all I care and get even more money).  At today pricing that would make me out zero dollars on each K64, you can't tell me that at the old price of 900 for each K64 you had to buy $400 in parts on top of the cost of the chips.  

[Tad3j]

I still have hope, they are gonna refund and they respond. However, Amir does look like honest guy and he also writes this in last comments. When they deal with his legal things, then it is time for BTC. I however have hope personally. 

[btceic]

How is it possible that any of you still dont think this is an outright scam?

Amir and Justin outright stole your money and did literally nothing for it!

[Tad3j]

It is called hope in human being ... Because good still exists, and Amir from start on, they have a good intentions, this is what You cannot denie, and no-one with good intentions just change the way into illegal. And if you think that everything was staged ... Well I personally don't. And no, you cannot change my opinion

And if you do not posses hope, know that, you're creating the world you live in.

[zurg]

Well, I just had an interesting discussion with my Chase Visa regarding something I was disputing that I bought last January.
It was a similar situation as TH of non delivery of a product.
The lady said that they have 118 days (maybe 120, it was hard to understand sometimes) to dispute transaction.
BUT!
Those days start from the day you are supposed to receive the item!
So in my case I bought in January of 2013
On August 8th I got a reply to my ticket saying the item will ship.
Dead silence since then.
She started count of 118 days from August 8th + 1 week for shipping.

So I was just issued a credit a few minutes ago without any problems.

Now I just wish I paid TH with a CC and not a wire.

[flowdab]

How is it possible that any of you still dont think this is an outright scam?

Amir and Justin outright stole your money and did literally nothing for it!

Its totally a scam at this point until proven otherwise.

[notlist3d]

It is called hope in human being ... Because good still exists, and Amir from start on, they have a good intentions, this is what You cannot denie, and no-one with good intentions just change the way into illegal. And if you think that everything was staged ... Well I personally don't. And no, you cannot change my opinion

And if you do not posses hope, know that, you're creating the world you live in.

Its not called being human its called gambling with customers money.  And THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.  They were shady, and it turns out its becuse they never had the capability to deliver the product. 

In the begining they might have thought they could do it, but they were salesmen and lacked many important things to be sucessfull.  Once they saw a sinking ship they did not try to fix it, but instead are getting salary until they are eventually forced to close up shop.

What kind of work is Amir doing now?  Or is he still milking salary off TH?

[krayzie32]

Now that coin is over $300 each, I'm willing to take 3 coins per K64, you keep 2 coins or $610 for each K64 there is zero percent chance that it cost you $610 to make each board.

[FCTaiChi]

Just because they started with good intentions doesn't mean that once they got over their head that they did everything they could to make it right.