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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 597026 times)
jbreher
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April 12, 2018, 03:17:43 PM
Merited by Mysticus (1)
 #14461


Finally. We get to something concrete and debatable. Thanks.

Quote
Yes they are proposals nothing more I'm not saying that any will be adopted just that their is a chance

Exactly. Three people met and discussed what -- if anything -- to do about malleability. The outcome: nothing at this time. Slight preference for MalFix, but no consensus.

True, one of the participants was the individual who currently leads the market-leading client implementation. Was he the holdout? Who knows? Doesn't matter.

But you fail to support your claim that MalFix would result in Bitcoin Cash abandoning Bitcoin's tried and true security model. Again, put up or shut up. You may just be parroting my observation that The SegWit Omnibus Changeset has caused Bitcoin Segwit to abandon Bitcoin's tried and true security model. But you seem to fundamentally misunderstand Bitcoin. For it is not the separation of sig from tx within The SegWit Omnibus Changeset that has abandoned Bitcoin's security model. Rather, it is the misguided abortional crude hack of pretending that an anyonecanspend tx is anything other than exactly that, which has opened post- SegWit Omnibus Changeset Bitcoin Segwit to a myriad of new attack vectors.

Go sharpen your pencil and get back to us.

Again, until you provide some evidence, all can safely consider this claim debunked, dispatched, and discredited.

Quote
As for Bitcoin Cash users won't accept being forced into a new system the whole premise of Bitcoin cash is users nodes don't matter only mining nodes matter

Again, you fundamentally misunderstand Bitcoin. Non-mining, fully-validating clients (often misrepresented as 'full nodes') have no power to effect the network itself. This is true whether discussing Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Segwit, or any other PoW satoshi-pattern cryptocurrency. Miners have the power to enact any change they want to - or the majority thereof does. This power is counterbalanced only by the power of users and holders to abandon any chain that does not implement the characteristics they desire. In contrast, the only power non-mining, fully-validating clients possess is to divorce themselves from the network. Period. Other than suiciding themselves, they do not affect they network in any way.

The above is true regardless of Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Segwit. For better or for worse, this is the system satoshi bequeathed us. True, miners are likely to use such chain abandonment as a signal of user/hodler displeasure. However, they are fully aware that such non-mining, fully-validating clients are subject to Sybil attacks. The only non-Sybillable resources are mining power and Bitcoin ownership, which is what makes the system work to begin with.

Quote
so you will get forced if the exchanges upgrade and the miners upgrade the users are forced to either upgrade or sell taking huge losses

Exactly - and exactly identical for Bitcoin SegWit as for Bitcoin Cash.

Quote
The only reason BTC users can have a say is the users run the majority of the nodes therefore the miners etc won't switch as it's not in their interest to mine something the vast majority of users define worthless

No. Non-mining, fully-validating clients are the only entities in the system subject to Sybil attack. While they bring benefits to their owners, they do nothing for the network itself. They are merely a Sybiled proxy for economic power. Again, this is exactly identical for Bitcoin SegWit as for Bitcoin Cash.

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April 12, 2018, 03:18:20 PM
 #14462

^ eclair rings a bell...lol

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/04/bitcoin-lightning-network-wallet-app-removed-from-google-play-as-developers-lose-signing-key/
Bitcoin’s first Lightning Network-enabled wallet app, Eclair Wallet, has recently been removed from Google’s Play Store by the developers, as they lost access to the app’s signing keys. This, as the developers noted on social media, prevents them from fixing bugs and working on the app


so was this demo before or after the devs lost the keys?

Probably after since the keys were lost shortly after it was released and it was promptly removed from the play store because a bug was discovered that could cause pending payments I don't know when this demo happened but I'm presuming it was recently
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April 12, 2018, 03:26:06 PM
 #14463

I hate to feed the Blockstream/Core/LN trolls here in the Bitcoin Cash thread. But I will point out here that Bitcoin Cash is free of the cancer that is The SegWit Omnibus Changeset, upon which the current implementation of LN is dependent. As for LN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=pOZaLbUUZUs

I'm curious what Adam's "large teams full time job" will come up with to debunk (*ahem!*) the above.

Go ahead shills - rip it to shreds. If you can.

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April 12, 2018, 03:28:21 PM
 #14464

One of the proposed malleability fixes for BCH moves the signature out of the transaction area the exact same way as segwit with the only difference being that on BCH it's just moved permanently and everyone is forced to the new system

with one of the proposed BCH fixes this would completely change the security model for a new system and you would not be able to use the one Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years.

Are these claims true about a proposed BCH malleability fix?  

So tek claims. He is partially right about the first one. A separation of signature data from the rest of the transaction data has indeed been proposed as a malleability fix. Funny thing about proposals - anyone can make one. Even an insane one. Not saying the concept of separating sig from tx is necessarily insane, just saying that there are essentially zero barriers to making a proposal.

To get the proposal implemented, however, requires consensus. There is no consensus for this proposal at this time.

Quote
If not it needs to be debunked.  

Despite a direct challenge, tek has provided zero rationale for tek's claim that this proposal will change Bitcoin's security model. Zero. Tek merely dodges the question. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.msg34496915#msg34496915

It is possible there is a proposal for BCH that separates sig from tx and changes the security model. Possible. until tek coughs up the text of the relevant proposal, there is no knowing.

Salacious claims require support of evidence. The ball is in tek's court. Put up or shut up.

If tek can establish such a proposal actually exists, it is then impingent upon tek to show that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it ever getting adopted. As if.

Unless tek steps forward with some evidence, you can safely consider this claim debunked, dispatched, and discredited.

Quote
If there is such a proposal I believe it could not possibly be adopted in such a way, as it appears that most Bitcoin Cash users would not accept to be forced into a new system.

I think you sum up the situation rather well - Bitcoin Cash users are unlikely to accept being forced into such a system.


The proposed fixes are listed here

https://github.com/bitcoincashorg/workgroups/blob/master/wg-malfix/summaries/20180130%20-%20Meeting%20Summary.md

Yes they are proposals nothing more I'm not saying that any will be adopted just that their is a chance

As for Bitcoin Cash users won't accept being forced into a new system the whole premise of Bitcoin cash is users nodes don't matter only mining nodes matter so you will get forced if the exchanges upgrade and the miners upgrade the users are forced to either upgrade because you use SPV wallets or sell taking huge losses


The only reason BTC users can have a say is the users run the majority of the nodes therefore the miners etc won't switch as it's not in their interest to mine something the vast majority of users define worthless

I'd say the "Do Nothing" option is the best for now, so BCH can watch how BTC's LN evolves, and if it's really worth fixing malleability.
If BTC's LN proves to be good idea, then BCH might eventually intoduce a fix, but for now it's not really neccessary.
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April 12, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
 #14465

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Website
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Mrpumperitis
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April 12, 2018, 04:17:54 PM
 #14466

^ eclair rings a bell...lol

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/04/bitcoin-lightning-network-wallet-app-removed-from-google-play-as-developers-lose-signing-key/
Bitcoin’s first Lightning Network-enabled wallet app, Eclair Wallet, has recently been removed from Google’s Play Store by the developers, as they lost access to the app’s signing keys. This, as the developers noted on social media, prevents them from fixing bugs and working on the app


so was this demo before or after the devs lost the keys?

Probably af..........


What matters is ln doesnt work!, so take that segwet millibilly fix...turn it sideways and.....(you know the rest..dont you? )

 Smiley Tongue

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 04:24:04 PM
 #14467

^ eclair rings a bell...lol

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/04/bitcoin-lightning-network-wallet-app-removed-from-google-play-as-developers-lose-signing-key/
Bitcoin’s first Lightning Network-enabled wallet app, Eclair Wallet, has recently been removed from Google’s Play Store by the developers, as they lost access to the app’s signing keys. This, as the developers noted on social media, prevents them from fixing bugs and working on the app


so was this demo before or after the devs lost the keys?

Probably af..........


What matters is ln doesnt work!, so take that segwet millibilly fix...turn it sideways and.....(you know the rest..dont you? )

 Smiley Tongue


Like I said early beta client just because eclair still has some issues other don't

Eclair is going for the pretty GUI first while LND & c-lightning is concerntating on cli tools first.

While CLI is not user friendly it is far more versatile and there are GUIs from the creators of LND in the works and also ZAP wallet from Jack mallers

Just because eclair has some issues it does not mean the LN network is broken
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April 12, 2018, 04:27:41 PM
 #14468

tek tek....tek...tell me ...did you?......did you ?......

ok we try again....take that segwet millibilly fix...turn it sideways and ......   

 Tongue

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 04:34:08 PM
 #14469

tek tek....tek...tell me ...did you?......did you ?......

ok we try again....take that segwet millibilly fix...turn it sideways and ......   

 Tongue

Segwit is not just a malleability fix it also allows for further optimization through signature aggregation etc via a soft fork

Signature aggregation saves quite a bit if space and allows for many more transactions to be included in a block therefore further optimizing the available space and keeping node running costs and system resources down
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April 12, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
Merited by Mrpumperitis (1)
 #14470

If bitcoin cash gets the majority of Pow then it becomes the de facto Bitcoin.
then the split from Bitcoin with protocol upgrades to improve the capacity of the chain.
And without changing the economic rules of Bitcoin.

• ✦ ALPHATECA ✦ •alphateca.com
ICO ► 07/01 - 08/01 ► ico.alphateca.com
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April 12, 2018, 04:42:48 PM
 #14471



Segwit is not just a malleability fix it also allows for further optimization through signature aggregation etc via a soft fork

Signature aggregation saves quite a bit if space and allows for many more transactions to be included in a block therefore further optimizing the available space and keeping node running costs and system resources down


I rest my case you could not give 1 valid reason I asked about segwit and you go off on some bullshit rant about LN

LN is not setwit LN is a payment network and segwit is a transaction malleability fix nothing more.

It moves the signature data to a different part of the block out of the transaction area that's all it does nothing more

Thankyou for confirming you know nothing

wtf do you smoke m8? seriously...are you ok?
You cant seem to make your mind up can you...

yesterday it was nothing more, today its not just...whats it going to be tomorrow lol
its over m8

SEGWIT IS SHIT.....oh and turn it sideways and stick it straight up your candy ass  Tongue Kiss

Thankyou for confirming you know nothing  about the rock  Cheesy  Shocked

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 05:18:49 PM
 #14472



Segwit is not just a malleability fix it also allows for further optimization through signature aggregation etc via a soft fork

Signature aggregation saves quite a bit if space and allows for many more transactions to be included in a block therefore further optimizing the available space and keeping node running costs and system resources down


I rest my case you could not give 1 valid reason I asked about segwit and you go off on some bullshit rant about LN

LN is not setwit LN is a payment network and segwit is a transaction malleability fix nothing more.

It moves the signature data to a different part of the block out of the transaction area that's all it does nothing more

Thankyou for confirming you know nothing

wtf do you smoke m8? seriously...are you ok?
You cant seem to make your mind up can you...

yesterday it was nothing more, today its not just...whats it going to be tomorrow lol
its over m8

SEGWIT IS SHIT.....oh and turn it sideways and stick it straight up your candy ass  Tongue Kiss

Thankyou for confirming you know nothing  about the rock  Cheesy  Shocked


Segwit is just a malleability fix BUT it allows for further features in the future to be soft forked due to the signature being moved

Signature aggregation etc is not dependant on segwit it just allows it to be done without a hard fork
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April 12, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
 #14473

No more segshit talk please...
back on topic...
BCH PLS  Cool

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 06:27:52 PM
 #14474

@Tek , quit being an idiot , you've lost , no one care about your s-word bullshit.

This coin supporters does not use it and does not care for it.

Go find a forum, where someone cares about the crap you are putting out.

This forum ain't it.  You are like a bad house guest that has to be throw out for overstaying your welcome.  Tongue

BCH is supposed to be about free speech

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

Everyone is able to decide for themselves and new users should know what's going on so they can do their own research.

Maybe if BCH had something worthwhile to talk about then people could talk about that too



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April 12, 2018, 06:35:02 PM
 #14475

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

There is a difference between banning users and simply pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.


Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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April 12, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
 #14476

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

There is a difference between banning users and simply pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.

English, bitch.

I can guarantee if you had the power to ban me you would have and I could probably guarantee you have tried to report me hoping I get banned
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April 12, 2018, 06:39:39 PM
 #14477

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

There is a difference between banning users and simply pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.

English, bitch.

I can guarantee if you had the power to ban me you would have and I could probably guarantee you have tried to report me hoping I get banned

You can guarantee? No, you cannot.

I may have reported one or more of your posts that had nothing to do with Bitcoin Cash. Again, there is a difference between banning users, and pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.


Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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April 12, 2018, 06:41:08 PM
 #14478

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

There is a difference between banning users and simply pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.

English, bitch.

I can guarantee if you had the power to ban me you would have and I could probably guarantee you have tried to report me hoping I get banned

You can guarantee? No, you cannot.

I may have reported one or more of your posts that had nothing to do with Bitcoin Cash. Again, there is a difference between banning users, and pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.



And how did that work out for you ?
jbreher
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April 12, 2018, 09:35:20 PM
 #14479

You go on about the likes of r/Bitcoin for deleting any posts that are not related and yet you come here trying to censor anyone that discusses something that you don't like or believe in

There is a difference between banning users and simply pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.

English, bitch.

I can guarantee if you had the power to ban me you would have and I could probably guarantee you have tried to report me hoping I get banned

You can guarantee? No, you cannot.

I may have reported one or more of your posts that had nothing to do with Bitcoin Cash. Again, there is a difference between banning users, and pointing out the unwelcome aspect of said user's posts.



And how did that work out for you ?

How did what work out for me?

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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April 13, 2018, 09:04:21 AM
 #14480

Possible small retrace...friday 13th... Shocked

nothing to worry about.  Smiley

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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