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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 685605 times)
jbreher
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May 24, 2018, 10:23:02 PM
Merited by bones261 (1)
 #15201

Anybody still holding this crap? Get out while you still can it doesn't have much time left. Read this and you'll understand what a gamble bcash is:

https://medium.com/@StopAndDecrypt/the-ethereum-blockchain-size-has-exceeded-1tb-and-yes-its-an-issue-2b650b5f4f62

Riiiight. A well-reasoned post. Unfortunately, the 'reasoning' is built atop invalid axioms. The author completely misunderstands the nature of the game theory that holds the entire system together.

As just one of several flawed assumptions, the author presumes that miners are willing to include each and every transaction within an ever-increasing block, in the face of the system being unable to handle that condition. Of course they won't. They will stop including transactions before it causes the system to crash.

However you look at it, however, the only _real_ investigation that I know of that has looked into the matter concluded that generic home computing hardware can handle about 100 tx/s - and with fixes to Bitcoin's broken threading model, about 500 tx/s.

Yes, some day, 500 tx/s will be insufficient. But not today. Not tomorrow. Not next year (at least unlikely to be).

I won't even start on how cringe-worthy his 'ratio between potential bottleneck sources' analysis is. I don't know whether to conclude that he is disingenuous, or just dense.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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Big Naturals
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May 25, 2018, 12:23:32 AM
 #15202

https://youtu.be/rfOlE-mmYBo?t=111

^Craig Wright kicked out of China !! Shocked  *must see*

CSW is definitely a prickly dude, but if you invite international people to a conference discussion then isn't it customary to speak in a language everyone can understand? I assume the conference organisers would prefer all participants know what is being said, otherwise it's totally pointless inviting someone to your discussion if they can't understand what other people are saying.

CSW doesn't suffer fools well, isn't bothered with trying to build a reputation as a nice guy, he says what he thinks and feels, and sometimes he looks rude, but in this instance the blame for what happened is on the conference organisers for not politely asking that questions and answers be given in English, when the dude started a long answer in Chinese what was CSW expected to do, wait for him to finish and then say, can you repeat everything you just said in English, what a waste of time.
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May 25, 2018, 07:58:38 AM
Last edit: May 25, 2018, 10:46:13 AM by cointopper
 #15203

Hello Bitcoin Cash believers,

Our aim is to add value to the whole crypto community by giving the best user experience to analyse cryptocurrencies.

It would be really great help from your side if you can spend 60 seconds of your time and give us your valuable feedback for our two recent updates 1) Snapshot and 2) Colourful interface of Bitcoin Cash at: https://cointopper.com/coin/bitcoincash

Constructive criticisms are always welcome at CoinTopper.  Thank you!!
Mrpumperitis
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May 25, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
 #15204

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )

zil1p38zgdm042jw827krzdq3yrjq6zrxnah6f5f5e
tomkat
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May 25, 2018, 09:28:11 AM
 #15205

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.

hv_
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May 25, 2018, 09:51:59 AM
 #15206

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.



Volatility in market price and difficulty. And many more operational risk you take as well. All costs you might pay.


Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
nick1492
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May 25, 2018, 01:32:28 PM
 #15207

It may seems that right now, BCH infrastructures are not layed out yet. Bitcoin have done it in 8 years to reach a thousand dollars per coin. BCH made a thousand dollars in less than a year. With support of miners and organizers, it can still reach what BTC have achieved. It is still a long way to go. I still do believe on BCH.

jbreher
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May 25, 2018, 05:08:02 PM
 #15208

Hello Bitcoin Cash believers,

Our aim is to add value to the whole crypto community by giving the best user experience to analyse cryptocurrencies.

It would be really great help from your side if you can spend 60 seconds of your time and give us your valuable feedback for our two recent updates 1) Snapshot and 2) Colourful interface of Bitcoin Cash at: https://cointopper.com/coin/bitcoincash

Constructive criticisms are always welcome at CoinTopper.  Thank you!!

I am unlikely to adopt a different coin tracker. That said, I can think of one improvement. In advance mode, you show things other than usd price in differing colors. I would suggest placing a dot of color next to each of the figures that surround the chart. The popup tooltip works, but obscures part of the chart detail, and would be unneeded with this addition.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
Mrpumperitis
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May 25, 2018, 06:02:36 PM
 #15209

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.


True for the average consumer(miner)your prices are probably accurate.
However for industrial scale miners, its not, its alot cheaper.
They buy asics in bulk and get cheaper elec, leading to huge savings.

Also the producers of asics are always  ahead.
While average miners use s9, the asic producers will be using "testing" s10 and be creating s11 always remain a few steps ahead of the rest.

zil1p38zgdm042jw827krzdq3yrjq6zrxnah6f5f5e
jbreher
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May 25, 2018, 07:58:52 PM
 #15210

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).

Hmm. Central banker misunderstands where the value of a currency comes from. Defines it in terms of trade balances between nations. Yet in a frictionless environment, it will not be the 'nations' that choose their adopted currency. It will be the people therein.

Personally, once most people understand the nature of a currency that cannot be inflated upon a whim, I belive they will choose such an immutable currency.

Which bodes poorly for his position.

Lastly, if he wants to ascribe correspondence between currency and 'nation', then fine. We are the nation named Internet. Deal with that, central banker dude.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
Mrpumperitis
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May 25, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
 #15211

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).

Hmm. Central banker misunderstands where the value of a currency comes from. Defines it in terms of trade balances between nations. Yet in a frictionless environment, it will not be the 'nations' that choose their adopted currency. It will be the people therein.

Personally, once most people understand the nature of a currency that cannot be inflated upon a whim, I belive they will choose such an immutable currency.

Which bodes poorly for his position.

Lastly, if he wants to ascribe correspondence between currency and 'nation', then fine. We are the nation named Internet. Deal with that, central banker dude.
What you say will happen, i agree, but not yet.
I believe it was the central bankers that made og btc so over priced in the first place.
(Davos ,world economic forum 2016 is where it began, btc price was around $500 , they were buying a few month before , around Nov2015 before the forum in 2016 at around $250)

Its very easy for them to scare away people from crypto(short term) by causing huge price manipulation...making fiat seem like the safer choice.




zil1p38zgdm042jw827krzdq3yrjq6zrxnah6f5f5e
abdulaziz07
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May 26, 2018, 01:58:38 AM
 #15212

Shouldn't both move up with btc??? At least thats what happened historically OR bth makes its run after.
vothuong1
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May 26, 2018, 07:08:51 AM
 #15213

Shouldn't both move up with btc??? At least thats what happened historically OR bth makes its run after.

Think most altcoins follows bitcoin price, Bcash and most other alcoins, in bear/bull markets. Thus, lets hope of btc price to gradually increase over time
jojo69
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no FOMO


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May 26, 2018, 07:19:31 AM
 #15214

anybody else bank on that fat finger a few hours ago


ca...ching

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
tomkat
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May 26, 2018, 07:56:25 AM
 #15215

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.


True for the average consumer(miner)your prices are probably accurate.
However for industrial scale miners, its not, its alot cheaper.
They buy asics in bulk and get cheaper elec, leading to huge savings.

Also the producers of asics are always  ahead.
While average miners use s9, the asic producers will be using "testing" s10 and be creating s11 always remain a few steps ahead of the rest.


Probably true about the equipment prices, but energy at $0.05 is rather low... at least for US and EU, not sure about China and far east in general.
Also, for the average consumer grade miner there're no additional costs of large buildings, HVAC installations and employees, so the costs aren't much different imo.
Ingramhb
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May 26, 2018, 08:00:40 AM
 #15216

Bitcoin Cash as a whole, it is still the advantage of the air force. Although BCH is worth holding for a long time, it is not the best time to buy it. Learn to wait.
hv_
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May 26, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
 #15217

Have some fun and individual thinking with that one


https://youtu.be/3wKwb33urtQ


Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
estenity
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May 26, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
 #15218

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).

Hmm. Central banker misunderstands where the value of a currency comes from. Defines it in terms of trade balances between nations. Yet in a frictionless environment, it will not be the 'nations' that choose their adopted currency. It will be the people therein.

Personally, once most people understand the nature of a currency that cannot be inflated upon a whim, I belive they will choose such an immutable currency.

Which bodes poorly for his position.

Lastly, if he wants to ascribe correspondence between currency and 'nation', then fine. We are the nation named Internet. Deal with that, central banker dude.
What you say will happen, i agree, but not yet.
I believe it was the central bankers that made og btc so over priced in the first place.
(Davos ,world economic forum 2016 is where it began, btc price was around $500 , they were buying a few month before , around Nov2015 before the forum in 2016 at around $250)

Its very easy for them to scare away people from crypto(short term) by causing huge price manipulation...making fiat seem like the safer choice.


this is the critical discussion.
Mrpumperitis
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May 27, 2018, 01:05:46 AM
 #15219

^ Hi E  Smiley
Whats your thoughts on this?


also another sad day from blockstreamcore rep Mow....
https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/998762417470373888
Collecting some gems for @SEC_Enforcement @SEC_News to take a closer look at @CNBCFastMoney @CNBC pumping and dumping altcoins on their viewers. Enough is enough. If you have more tweets, post below and I’ll add them to the Moment. ⚖️


 Undecided Roll Eyes







zil1p38zgdm042jw827krzdq3yrjq6zrxnah6f5f5e
Mrpumperitis
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May 27, 2018, 01:11:47 AM
 #15220

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.


True for the average consumer(miner)your prices are probably accurate.
However for industrial scale miners, its not, its alot cheaper.
They buy asics in bulk and get cheaper elec, leading to huge savings.

Also the producers of asics are always  ahead.
While average miners use s9, the asic producers will be using "testing" s10 and be creating s11 always remain a few steps ahead of the rest.


Probably true about the equipment prices, but energy at $0.05 is rather low... at least for US and EU, not sure about China and far east in general.
Also, for the average consumer grade miner there're no additional costs of large buildings, HVAC installations and employees, so the costs aren't much different imo.
We probably both right depending on the miner.
I think we can agree the price to mine 1og btc is between $2k - $3500 , def not the $8k some places have been reporting.
Lets say $2700 is an average price ...that price will 100% happen for og btc and
then more panic dumping can take its price lower than $2k, imo  

I wonder if Jihan or some other big mining group will tell us the cost for them to mine 1og btc. Smiley

zil1p38zgdm042jw827krzdq3yrjq6zrxnah6f5f5e
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