Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[semaforo]

As for your belief in Theism being that the the universe was empty, then it wasn't and we have a God that creates the entire universe.  That is just the start of it.

As mentioned, physics sort of broke that idea when it showed that time needs matter, aka universe, to exist. How can a god be "before" there was a thing like time?

Getting really philosophical here, but how did time evolve?  I am of the mindset (as I am sure you already know from past discussions on this thread) that God created time when he put the sun, moon and planets in their perfect places relative to each other at the moment the universe was created by Him.  What is the explanation of how that just happened by chance?  What are the odds that everything could have happened so that the rotation of the earth, at the precise distance from the sun, could have just happened by some random evolutionary chance?  

there's order in chaos and chaos in order... atheist/theist is mainly a question of semantics.

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[BitChick]

Your "God" lets it happen.

I am so sick and tired of people trying to divest their "God" of responsibility!

Makes me want to puke.

My God took the "responsibility" for all of our sins when He died for us on the cross.  He did not have to do that.  

I am tired of people not giving God the credit for all He has done! He is the giver of every good and perfect gift but we just blame Him for everyone wrong in the world, when everything wrong is because of man's choices and Satan's influence.

[semaforo]

   Refutation of consciousness by the ol' can't be loving, omnipotent and omniscient, eh? The irony is with the children's cancer ward that if you don't believe to begin with then it doesn't  make sense, and if you do it does. So you take what you want to.

    This life is both a learning experience, a test, and an opportunity. It's through suffering that we learn. For the believer, enduring suffering with patience holds great reward. As for the suffering of children, they also have their just recompense. This life is not even the tip of the iceberg.

    If there was no cold, there could be no hot. If there was no happy, there could be no sad. Existence is dual- eternity, greater than all existence, is One. You look at children suffering and question the consciousness behind reality, and ignore the millions of happy and healthy children. Without sickness, there is no health.

    If you say that there is a God and that suffering comes from somewhere else than that God then that God is not my Lord and your Lord, creator of time, creator of the galaxies and all worlds. Oh boy, here we go. Humans may cause their own suffering, but our free will is only with the permission of the Most High, in whose hand are all things(hand is metaphorical here...)

     How did I end up talking about theology on a bitcoin forum? Oh well, I also hope that bitcoin will be a force for justice and relief from the corruption of the big banks. I've been studying all the world's spiritual traditions for about 10 years and hope that some of what I have learned can be useful to someone. I think if we have more believers here it will be good for bitcoin- if people believe in bitcoin like I do then we can build up a hedge against panic selling. If I lose money, I don't care, because I am here because I believe taking of interest is immoral and want to keep my money safe, making sure that nobody is loaning it out for projects I know nothing about and may not approve of... i.e. strip clubs, housing developments that destroy forests, factories polluting water and so on. So if bitcoin crashes and I lose thousands of dollars I am doing what I believe is right and nothing is going to  make me use war and gluttony financing USD anymore than I have to.

    I think this is an angle that is missing- if we got some prominent priests, imams, and monks to endorse bitcoin it could be huge for the bitcoin ecosystem. Just think about how many votes are influenced by religious views, and ultimately spending choices are much more influential than votes.
    

[LostDutchman]

LOL. Wrong word obviously. Note edit. And come on, you know that just blew somebody's mind.

Your face ain't even bovvered. Nothing bovvers you. That's not a sustainable condition. God loves you too much. He'll be there when you need him

I was in a children's cancer ward the other day.

Couldn't find "God" anywhere around.

The shaman in the priest outfit told me that God's Love was present though.

We live in a world that has been tainted by sin.  Sickness, death, suffering are not from the hands of God but are curses because of our fallen world so God is not to be blamed for those things, although He often is.  But God is here when we call out to Him and will carry us through our sufferings if we ask Him too. The problem is, we get so angry or deliberately want to believe that He is not there or does not care so we choose to ignore Him.  But He is simply a prayer away. 

Tell that to the kids undergoing chemo, so sick they cannot eat, so sick they cannot play with the toys brought to them!

Tell that to the kids who know they are going to die and do not understand it.

Where is your God for them?

I was a child that went through some horrific abuse.  I cried out to God when I was only 5 years old.  He said, "I am crying too."  I still did not understand why he allowed such horrible things to be done to me (it is a long story and journey but God is just and justice has been done to my abuser since he died a strange tragic death) but just knowing that God understood my pain, and that he cared for me was enough.  

If God Himself came to earth and suffered from the hands of abusive men who beat him mercilessly, and crucified Him even though He was innocent, why should I not expect to suffer on this earth too?  This life is fleeting.  We are just here for a few short breaths.  We need to have a perspective of eternity to really "get the big picture" on these things, especially when it comes to pain, sickness, and death.

So to answer your question, God is there for them if they cry out to Him.  He may not heal them of the cancer but he will give them strength and hope and help them through the suffering, I know from my own experience.

So why does your "God" give them the cancer in the first place?

[neurobox]

You have to then ask, why did he allow for the possibility of sin? What was the alternative?

[BitChick]

So why does your "God" give them the cancer in the first place?

God does not "give" cancer.  I guess you could argue He allows it, could intervene, etc.  But He does not give it.  Read the book of Job in the Bible.  It is really insightful as to how God allows Satan to inflict sickness and suffering.

I believe that many sicknesses, cancer included, are sometimes caused by unnatural things we eat, pollution, or a predisposition due to some genetic mutations over the years, or even as Satan's ploy to keep us away from God, or to hate God.  Is God happy we are all suffering?  I don't believe so at all.  When we read what Jesus did why He was here for His short time on earth, healing the sick was one of the main miracles He performed.  So He obviously had compassion for the sick and I believe he still does.

[LostDutchman]

So why does your "God" give them the cancer in the first place?

God does not "give" cancer.  I guess you could argue He allows it, could intervene, etc.  But He does not give it.  Read the book of Job in the Bible.  It is really insightful as to how God allows Satan to inflict sickness and suffering.

I believe that many sicknesses, cancer included, are sometimes caused by unnatural things we eat, pollution, or a predisposition due to some genetic mutations over the years, or even as Satan's ploy to keep us away from God, or to hate God.  Is God happy we are all suffering?  I don't believe so at all.  When we read what Jesus did why He was here for His short time on earth, healing the sick was one of the main miracles He performed.  So He obviously had compassion for the sick and I believe he still does.

Sorry, my friend but you are so deluded that you cannot find your feet if you look down.

 I am now out of this thread because you can't fix stupid and I have no more time to waste.

Life is too short.

[BitChick]

So why does your "God" give them the cancer in the first place?

God does not "give" cancer.  I guess you could argue He allows it, could intervene, etc.  But He does not give it.  Read the book of Job in the Bible.  It is really insightful as to how God allows Satan to inflict sickness and suffering.

I believe that many sicknesses, cancer included, are sometimes caused by unnatural things we eat, pollution, or a predisposition due to some genetic mutations over the years, or even as Satan's ploy to keep us away from God, or to hate God.  Is God happy we are all suffering?  I don't believe so at all.  When we read what Jesus did why He was here for His short time on earth, healing the sick was one of the main miracles He performed.  So He obviously had compassion for the sick and I believe he still does.

Sorry, my friend but you are so deluded that you cannot find your feet if you look down.

 Iam now out of this thread because you can't fix stupid and I have no more time to waste.

Life is too short.

I never claimed to be smart.    Many of you are much more intelligent I am sure.  Thankfully, God does not judge based on IQ or I would be in trouble.

Life is short.  Eternity is forever.  Hence why it is really important to consider life after death.

[semaforo]

You have to then ask, why did he allow for the possibility of sin? What was the alternative?

As a means of showering grace on us. Since we have the choice, if we choose to live wisely and according to the Law, then we can advance in our consciousness and experience beauty and growth. The alternative would be no free will, which is the case with angels. In Buddhism these residents of heaven are sometimes called demi-gods I think, but because of their lack of free will they have much difficulty advancing levels in heaven, which is why we are very lucky to be human. Conversely, if we squander this opportunity it could be very unfortunate for us.

[Rassah]

Try imagining everything that is, ever was, or will be as one giant unending chain of atoms. Imagine your birth, childhood, adolescence, and eventual death as one unbroken chain of matter that connects with everything before and after it. Every molecule of water, land, and life in one unbroken chain circulating our solar system as one giant linked whole with no growth or movement. Now scale this up to a galactic or universal level. Now you have a sliver of an image of what timelessness is. If you want to learn more check out some books on time as the 4th dimension.

Circulating, without movement? I can imagine everything up to that point. I'm sell aware of the concept of the 4th dimension and beyond. But just as a 1st dimension line has to expand from a single point, and the 2nd dimension, and the third, the 4th expanded from a single point as well. And what does this vast interconnected chain, existing in the 4th dimension, have to do with pre-time?

Getting really philosophical here, but how did time evolve?  I am of the mindset (as I am sure you already know from past discussions on this thread) that God created time when he put the sun, moon and planets in their perfect places relative to each other at the moment the universe was created by Him.  What is the explanation of how that just happened by chance?  

As we know it, time is a function of matter/energy and velocity. The faster you go, or the more matter you condense into a spot, the slower the time moves. At a certain point, be it speed of light or extreme gravitational cingularity, time just stops moving completely, so nothing happens, at all. We use this understanding of relationship between time, matter, and velocity in our daily lives now.
We believe the same rules applied during the birth of our universe. Everything in our universe is expanding in a way that suggests that it all came from a single point. With the amount of gravity that would have existed when so much of the universe was together, time would have moved very slow. If you had a time machine, and tried to travel into the past to the beginning of the universe, you would never get there, because the farther back you go, the slower the time moves. It's like trying to travel down the line of a graph that approaches zero but never touches it, in a futile attempt to get to zero. At  a certain point, which was the very beginning of our universe, the time was almost stopped. At the point just before the creation of our universe, there was no such thing as "before." There was no time to measure before, during, and after, because nothing moved. There was no matter and velocity for time to exist in. So the idea that someone could "exist" in the "before," make decisions, and carry out actions, is a bit absurd, as all those things require a "before," a "during," and an "after." The most god could do is create the universe in the same infinitesimal fraction of a second as when the universe itself was created.

What are the odds that everything could have happened so that the rotation of the earth, at the precise distance from the sun, could have just happened by some random evolutionary chance?

Imagine you have a six-sided dice. No, rather, imagine you have a 1 trillion sided dice. And you need to roll exactly 5 for Earth to have the precise rotation and distance. What are the chances you will get that on a first roll? Now imagine you had hundreds of trillions of rolls, as there are hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in the universe. What are your chances of hitting a 5 at least once, now? What was god doing, creating hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in our universe, most of which don't come close to being like our Earth? (Though some apparently are similar)

[ktttn]

LOL. Wrong word obviously. Note edit. And come on, you know that just blew somebody's mind.

Your face ain't even bovvered. Nothing bovvers you. That's not a sustainable condition. God loves you too much. He'll be there when you need him

Who loves/ will be? Eris?

[stslimited]

one time I had to explain the book of Revelations to some chinese americans that did not grow up on christianity.

It was pretty funny. Basically another self proclaimed prophet was predicting the date of the rapture, and these chinese american women did not know why it was so relevant in the news.

"see what happens is that people are going to disappear, with their clothes folded.... oh never mind"

[ktttn]

Try imagining everything that is, ever was, or will be as one giant unending chain of atoms. Imagine your birth, childhood, adolescence, and eventual death as one unbroken chain of matter that connects with everything before and after it. Every molecule of water, land, and life in one unbroken chain circulating our solar system as one giant linked whole with no growth or movement. Now scale this up to a galactic or universal level. Now you have a sliver of an image of what timelessness is. If you want to learn more check out some books on time as the 4th dimension.

Circulating, without movement? I can imagine everything up to that point. I'm sell aware of the concept of the 4th dimension and beyond. But just as a 1st dimension line has to expand from a single point, and the 2nd dimension, and the third, the 4th expanded from a single point as well. And what does this vast interconnected chain, existing in the 4th dimension, have to do with pre-time?

Getting really philosophical here, but how did time evolve?  I am of the mindset (as I am sure you already know from past discussions on this thread) that God created time when he put the sun, moon and planets in their perfect places relative to each other at the moment the universe was created by Him.  What is the explanation of how that just happened by chance?  

As we know it, time is a function of matter/energy and velocity. The faster you go, or the more matter you condense into a spot, the slower the time moves. At a certain point, be it speed of light or extreme gravitational cingularity, time just stops moving completely, so nothing happens, at all. We use this understanding of relationship between time, matter, and velocity in our daily lives now.
We believe the same rules applied during the birth of our universe. Everything in our universe is expanding in a way that suggests that it all came from a single point. With the amount of gravity that would have existed when so much of the universe was together, time would have moved very slow. If you had a time machine, and tried to travel into the past to the beginning of the universe, you would never get there, because the farther back you go, the slower the time moves. It's like trying to travel down the line of a graph that approaches zero but never touches it, in a futile attempt to get to zero. At  a certain point, which was the very beginning of our universe, the time was almost stopped. At the point just before the creation of our universe, there was no such thing as "before." There was no time to measure before, during, and after, because nothing moved. There was no matter and velocity for time to exist in. So the idea that someone could "exist" in the "before," make decisions, and carry out actions, is a bit absurd, as all those things require a "before," a "during," and an "after." The most god could do is create the universe in the same infinitesimal fraction of a second as when the universe itself was created.

What are the odds that everything could have happened so that the rotation of the earth, at the precise distance from the sun, could have just happened by some random evolutionary chance?

Imagine you have a six-sided dice. No, rather, imagine you have a 1 trillion sided dice. And you need to roll exactly 5 for Earth to have the precise rotation and distance. What are the chances you will get that on a first roll? Now imagine you had hundreds of trillions of rolls, as there are hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in the universe. What are your chances of hitting a 5 at least once, now? What was god doing, creating hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in our universe, most of which don't come close to being like our Earth? (Though some apparently are similar)

http://youtu.be/oKKw_QilTcQ

Is god in the seventh dimension?

[semaforo]

Is god in the seventh dimension?

  I stopped watching when he said "This is my video blog post for November fourteenth, two thousand seven." The man clearly has no grasp of the fourth dimension, how can he know about the tenth?

[Rassah]

Like Bitcoin, the economic principles it enables have never been allowed to provide themselves, so they are accepted on faith.
And there success is testimony to the belief.

And so to is faith in a personal God. you can't prove it , the only way to do it is to have someone kill you or die of natural causes not of your making.

The result is you have to assess the risk. We have different an individual risk tolerance and levels of reasoning.
Trying to prove you're ability to assess risk is better than someone else's when it is a function of person tolerance is pointless.

Do you believe that time dialation when approaching the speed of light or a black hole, or that stars in other solar systems being made of gas, or even that Neptune is made of gas, is accepted on faith, because we have never had proof of these claims?

[neurobox]

TIme dilation is adjusted for in satellites, it's a quantifiable phenomenon. So is God's faithfulness, and it can be verified prior to death, if you have the faith to depend on it. Few do, the rest reduce God to an acedemic discussion about the afterlife.

[Adrian-x]

Do you believe that time dialation when approaching the speed of light or a black hole, or that stars in other solar systems being made of gas, or even that Neptune is made of gas, is accepted on faith, because we have never had proof of these claims?

My deductive reasoning skills by my own judgment are above average, (not according to my Wife), but given the basic science evidence on which these assumptions are made, for simplicity, I am willing to accept them as fact, if my life depended on it, I would like to get a little more firsthand experience and learn a little more.  

That said I think it is fare to let the naysayer have his own deluded opinion, as long as there ignorance doesn't affect others, and there beliefs are not considered facts but merely metaphors by which to simplify the understandings.  

As for time dilation, it is amassing, our perception of the universe is dependent on time, and that time that is afforded us to preserve it is a result of the our gravity, and that I experience first had, the problem with religious beliefs is they can be fixed and do not reflect the understanding, or if they do they evolve very slowly so the lowest common denominator can still find a belief. The problem is simplifying the wonderment and belittling it to a simple 3 letter word as opposed to, understanding it and basking in its awe, denies people of a richer life.  

[neurobox]

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

Also, not to play grammar nazi, but for future reference,the correct third-person posessive is "their", not "there." Would hate to see something that unimportant unfairly tarnish your reputation for above average deductive reasoning

[Rassah]

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

[NumberFive]

I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

LOL