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Author Topic: [ANN][FLO] 0.15 segwit | The original tx msg coin | Alexandria | floData  (Read 484015 times)
metacoin
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April 04, 2017, 03:46:14 PM
 #1461

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

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April 04, 2017, 08:06:13 PM
 #1462

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

Yes, but this only benefits miners, who don't care about Flo or it's value. They will just dump any Flo they get back on the market. So, use of Alexandria would ironically just result in more sell pressure for Flo. I have seen this mechanism work out poorly for the value / price of other coins long term.

Are there any mechanisms by which Flo would increase in value? Could those fees go to burning those instead? Not sure why you would pay those to miners instead of Flo holders (by burning or some other mechanism). If you did this it would increase the value of Flo tremendously from at least a theoretical perspective.

Just remove them from supply by having them all go to a burn address is the easy answer here.

Appreciate the discussion.
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April 05, 2017, 12:07:36 AM
 #1463

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

Yes, but this only benefits miners, who don't care about Flo or it's value. They will just dump any Flo they get back on the market. So, use of Alexandria would ironically just result in more sell pressure for Flo. I have seen this mechanism work out poorly for the value / price of other coins long term.

Are there any mechanisms by which Flo would increase in value? Could those fees go to burning those instead? Not sure why you would pay those to miners instead of Flo holders (by burning or some other mechanism). If you did this it would increase the value of Flo tremendously from at least a theoretical perspective.

Just remove them from supply by having them all go to a burn address is the easy answer here.

Appreciate the discussion.

Hi, thanks for your questions, they reveal a deep understanding of what a coin needs for longevity and market value - I'm anxious to share a wiki soon about how Alexandria addresses this issue, hopefully by the end of the week. In the meanwhile, I'll summarize our approach as such:

publishing content requires spending a fee. the fee is calculated differently depending on if its a piece of commercial content or a piece of free content. if its free, the fee is based entirely on the size of the data being added to the blockchain, as @metacoin said previously. if its commercial, the fee is calculated as a function of the price being asked for it.

the fees go to miners, yes. and most miners sell their coins at their earliest opportunity, also agreed, tho we think they'll be have differently in our system, but ill get to that in a sec. first - lets consider that the fees also have to come from somewhere, and we know full-well that independent publishers (artists of any kind) are not about to become cryptocurrency traders in order to purchase an altcoin, after becoming first familiar with Bitcoin and signing up for a hosted wallet and uploading their drivers license, all just to publish their song or video. to address this - well, the first step in addressing this was integrating Coinbase's Buy Widget (https://developers.coinbase.com/docs/buy-widget) to give them a super easy way to buy $1-$5 of BTC with a debit card without even making a coinbase account, but we did all that on the application layer.

the primary thing we did to address this at the protocol layer, while also giving miners more incentive to mine Flo (since we ultimately want a competitive and rising mining market in order to trust the consistency and resiliency of the consensus system those publishers are relying on), is that we define within our protocol a system that lets publishers automatically exchange their BTC into the amount of FLO they need to publish their piece of content, from the miners directly, at a reasonable margin on top of their estimated costs. this is a first come first served system, using the timestamped data in the blockchain itself to determine which coins are up next for trading, which results in miners having an actual incentive to hodl their coins - but not just to hold while watching a crypto market for the price to hit a target, to hold until the market of publishers gets to you in line, and if you wait until then, they'll pay you a reasonable 10-20% margin on top of what you spent to mine them.

and then, of course, since a few minutes after the publisher trades BTC for those FLO, they are then spent as the tx-fee for their publish message, the miners have not just an incentive to hold the coins they have mined, but to keep on mining cuz they might just win not just the standard block reward, but a bonus every once in a while as well - and if they hold them until their turn to be autotraded, they'll again make a margin on them.

Result is a generally stable but also upward impact on hashing power as long as there is an overall increase in publishing activity - as more miners discover that they can set it and forget it and get reliable returns from pointing their sCrypt miners at a pool compatible with our protocol, the number of open offers from those miners will increase, in other words the time between when they mined a block and when they sold that block will get longer - but as overall publishing activity goes up, that number of offers will go down proportionately.

Coincidentally (well, partially by design) this should have a generally stable but also generally upward impact on token price as well. Some miners will be anxious to sell immediately and thus they will apply pressure to the crypto markets to drive the price higher - whenever hype about the project leads to traders newly discovering it and getting excited about it, the price will surge accordingly, which would cause some of the miners who were holding until a publisher traded for their coins to instead go trade them on the open market, reducing the available supply for publishers, and shortening the time between when miners win blocks and when they sell them.

Hopefully that gives you a decent understanding of our approach - please let me know if that leaves you with more questions than it answers Wink
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April 05, 2017, 12:53:36 AM
 #1464


I would suggest this be added, otherwise, what is the point of owning Flo whatsoever Smiley

I'm trying to look at is as an investment in Alexandria, which would be VERY exciting!

ETH gets gas fees for Apps... Alexandria should also burn some Flo (% of payout to contributors at least, or fees for uploading content)

Realistically, gas isn't used to an extent that adds meaningful value to ETH. A overwhelming % of the value comes from interest in the product pipeline -- which is similar to projects built on top of most other tokens. As the product pipeline grows, so will the value. FLO is very similar to that with Alexandria and metacoin's other projects. One interesting thing about FLO is that it's so well circulated given its age that value should be fairly stable with upticks in price, as opposed to new miners having control over the market. A burning mechanism likely wouldn't add a meaningful value aside from speculator interest.
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April 05, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
 #1465

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

Yes, but this only benefits miners, who don't care about Flo or it's value. They will just dump any Flo they get back on the market. So, use of Alexandria would ironically just result in more sell pressure for Flo. I have seen this mechanism work out poorly for the value / price of other coins long term.

Are there any mechanisms by which Flo would increase in value? Could those fees go to burning those instead? Not sure why you would pay those to miners instead of Flo holders (by burning or some other mechanism). If you did this it would increase the value of Flo tremendously from at least a theoretical perspective.

Just remove them from supply by having them all go to a burn address is the easy answer here.

Appreciate the discussion.

Hi, thanks for your questions, they reveal a deep understanding of what a coin needs for longevity and market value - I'm anxious to share a wiki soon about how Alexandria addresses this issue, hopefully by the end of the week. In the meanwhile, I'll summarize our approach as such:

publishing content requires spending a fee. the fee is calculated differently depending on if its a piece of commercial content or a piece of free content. if its free, the fee is based entirely on the size of the data being added to the blockchain, as @metacoin said previously. if its commercial, the fee is calculated as a function of the price being asked for it.

the fees go to miners, yes. and most miners sell their coins at their earliest opportunity, also agreed, tho we think they'll be have differently in our system, but ill get to that in a sec. first - lets consider that the fees also have to come from somewhere, and we know full-well that independent publishers (artists of any kind) are not about to become cryptocurrency traders in order to purchase an altcoin, after becoming first familiar with Bitcoin and signing up for a hosted wallet and uploading their drivers license, all just to publish their song or video. to address this - well, the first step in addressing this was integrating Coinbase's Buy Widget (https://developers.coinbase.com/docs/buy-widget) to give them a super easy way to buy $1-$5 of BTC with a debit card without even making a coinbase account, but we did all that on the application layer.

the primary thing we did to address this at the protocol layer, while also giving miners more incentive to mine Flo (since we ultimately want a competitive and rising mining market in order to trust the consistency and resiliency of the consensus system those publishers are relying on), is that we define within our protocol a system that lets publishers automatically exchange their BTC into the amount of FLO they need to publish their piece of content, from the miners directly, at a reasonable margin on top of their estimated costs. this is a first come first served system, using the timestamped data in the blockchain itself to determine which coins are up next for trading, which results in miners having an actual incentive to hodl their coins - but not just to hold while watching a crypto market for the price to hit a target, to hold until the market of publishers gets to you in line, and if you wait until then, they'll pay you a reasonable 10-20% margin on top of what you spent to mine them.

and then, of course, since a few minutes after the publisher trades BTC for those FLO, they are then spent as the tx-fee for their publish message, the miners have not just an incentive to hold the coins they have mined, but to keep on mining cuz they might just win not just the standard block reward, but a bonus every once in a while as well - and if they hold them until their turn to be autotraded, they'll again make a margin on them.

Result is a generally stable but also upward impact on hashing power as long as there is an overall increase in publishing activity - as more miners discover that they can set it and forget it and get reliable returns from pointing their sCrypt miners at a pool compatible with our protocol, the number of open offers from those miners will increase, in other words the time between when they mined a block and when they sold that block will get longer - but as overall publishing activity goes up, that number of offers will go down proportionately.

Coincidentally (well, partially by design) this should have a generally stable but also generally upward impact on token price as well. Some miners will be anxious to sell immediately and thus they will apply pressure to the crypto markets to drive the price higher - whenever hype about the project leads to traders newly discovering it and getting excited about it, the price will surge accordingly, which would cause some of the miners who were holding until a publisher traded for their coins to instead go trade them on the open market, reducing the available supply for publishers, and shortening the time between when miners win blocks and when they sell them.

Hopefully that gives you a decent understanding of our approach - please let me know if that leaves you with more questions than it answers Wink


Excellent answer, thank you.

In layman's terms, the buy pressure from users buying BTC / FLO far outstrips any miner's sell pressure - and I agree with this.

Sounds like the only thing missing is an easy mechanism to buy FLO via Coinbase BTC buy, which it sounds like you have under control.

All bullish for Flo to me. Keep it up!
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April 05, 2017, 03:20:56 PM
 #1466


I would suggest this be added, otherwise, what is the point of owning Flo whatsoever Smiley

I'm trying to look at is as an investment in Alexandria, which would be VERY exciting!

ETH gets gas fees for Apps... Alexandria should also burn some Flo (% of payout to contributors at least, or fees for uploading content)

Realistically, gas isn't used to an extent that adds meaningful value to ETH. A overwhelming % of the value comes from interest in the product pipeline -- which is similar to projects built on top of most other tokens. As the product pipeline grows, so will the value. FLO is very similar to that with Alexandria and metacoin's other projects. One interesting thing about FLO is that it's so well circulated given its age that value should be fairly stable with upticks in price, as opposed to new miners having control over the market. A burning mechanism likely wouldn't add a meaningful value aside from speculator interest.

True, but there are those of us who like to value certain types of crypto like stocks, and the burning represents the "earnings" of the coin. I think coins are either trying to be currency (like Zcash) or a platform (ETH leans in this category, although many are valuing it like a currency. I think it's wildy overvalued, and will be overtaken by true currencies like Zcash in terms of future appreciation, but that's just me).

However, I agree there is an intrinsic value as a currency/ecosystem token itself, still. Another good example of this is LSK, where the value mostly comes from convenience to platform devs to use LSK instead of creating their own Token, which creates scarcity, and not from burning alone.

I don't think a small "platform" coin like FLO that doesn't really have an opportunity for a lot of projects to start using the coin should rely on scarcity alone, as the top 2-3 currencies will always do it better with network effects (and now ETH). It's why XCP and OMNI also remain wildly undervalued, like FLO, until they turn on some increased burning functionality or BTC "buy pressure" to use the ecosystem as was described above.
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April 07, 2017, 10:35:12 AM
 #1467

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

Yes, but this only benefits miners, who don't care about Flo or it's value. They will just dump any Flo they get back on the market. So, use of Alexandria would ironically just result in more sell pressure for Flo. I have seen this mechanism work out poorly for the value / price of other coins long term.

Are there any mechanisms by which Flo would increase in value? Could those fees go to burning those instead? Not sure why you would pay those to miners instead of Flo holders (by burning or some other mechanism). If you did this it would increase the value of Flo tremendously from at least a theoretical perspective.

Just remove them from supply by having them all go to a burn address is the easy answer here.

Appreciate the discussion.

I mine Florincoin and I hold them. I do it because for the blockchain to move, someone have to mine. I've seen some pumps, including the one today - poloniex price went up to 1555 satoshis - and so far I've never dumped anything.

I'm not preparing to dump it even if the price goes above 1 BTC. And even if I did, I would still be mining, just because I have scrypt ASICs and the network needs mining to continue serving say alexandria videos.

One thing that would make sense for Florincoin would be the farming "proof of resource" concept from SIA, STORJ, MAID, etc. At least it would make sense for alexandria to use yet another blockchain for storage, if it doesn't get implemented with florin itself. This would give non miners, the hard drive collectors (me included) another way to help the network.
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April 07, 2017, 01:19:46 PM
 #1468

Storm is coming  Grin

BTC - 13D4Hum3gH8L4QjQET8GWc7cBWRRuGtfpM
DASH - Xcjzhqyu7qx5hLWixYaukAesajrG6NeiAZ
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April 07, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
 #1469

Ah, by "burning" I was referring to specifically the act of spending coins to an unreachable address, therefore removing them from circulation. There are a number of coins that use this type of coin burning for various purposes.

Paying fees for blockchain messages has always been part of Florincoin. There is a fee-per-byte calculation (derived from Bitcoin's fee calculation). Transactions with filled tx-comment fields are mostly >700 bytes which results in a miner's fee.

Yes, but this only benefits miners, who don't care about Flo or it's value. They will just dump any Flo they get back on the market. So, use of Alexandria would ironically just result in more sell pressure for Flo. I have seen this mechanism work out poorly for the value / price of other coins long term.

Are there any mechanisms by which Flo would increase in value? Could those fees go to burning those instead? Not sure why you would pay those to miners instead of Flo holders (by burning or some other mechanism). If you did this it would increase the value of Flo tremendously from at least a theoretical perspective.

Just remove them from supply by having them all go to a burn address is the easy answer here.

Appreciate the discussion.

I mine Florincoin and I hold them. I do it because for the blockchain to move, someone have to mine. I've seen some pumps, including the one today - poloniex price went up to 1555 satoshis - and so far I've never dumped anything.

I'm not preparing to dump it even if the price goes above 1 BTC. And even if I did, I would still be mining, just because I have scrypt ASICs and the network needs mining to continue serving say alexandria videos.

One thing that would make sense for Florincoin would be the farming "proof of resource" concept from SIA, STORJ, MAID, etc. At least it would make sense for alexandria to use yet another blockchain for storage, if it doesn't get implemented with florin itself. This would give non miners, the hard drive collectors (me included) another way to help the network.

That's exactly the plan. Primary goal is to use filecoin for that function, but of course it doesn't yet exist, so our backup plan is Storj, Sia and/or maid.
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April 07, 2017, 05:45:12 PM
 #1470

FLO > LBRY today. Therefore, FLO value is 20x today with 100-10000x upside.
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April 08, 2017, 06:36:45 AM
 #1471

Hello gentlemen!
The level can not break through strangely!
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April 14, 2017, 12:56:32 AM
 #1472

Hello gentlemen!
The level can not break through strangely!

Patience.... its just warming up
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April 14, 2017, 03:29:49 AM
 #1473

Hello gentlemen!
The level can not break through strangely!

Check out slack if you're interested in the progress.  Smiley
dloaslack.bitspill.net
[fixed]

Fun times ahead.
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April 14, 2017, 03:32:28 AM
 #1474

Hello gentlemen!
The level can not break through strangely!

Check out slack if you're interested in the progress.  Smiley
dloa.slack.com

Fun times ahead.

to join, you'll need to go here for an invite: http://dloaslack.bitspill.net/
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April 14, 2017, 04:09:08 AM
 #1475

Hello gentlemen!
The level can not break through strangely!

Check out slack if you're interested in the progress.  Smiley
dloa.slack.com

Fun times ahead.

to join, you'll need to go here for an invite: http://dloaslack.bitspill.net/

Whoops, forgot that slack requires specific email addresses.
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April 16, 2017, 11:31:41 PM
 #1476

Alexandria  Kiss
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April 17, 2017, 12:48:16 AM
 #1477

I've officially bought the fuk outta this coin with my 15x block money, basis currently .00000725

May we 10x or RIP
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April 17, 2017, 02:41:44 PM
 #1478

I've officially bought the fuk outta this coin with my 15x block money, basis currently .00000725

May we 10x or RIP
some day  Wink
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April 17, 2017, 04:58:14 PM
 #1479

I've officially bought the fuk outta this coin with my 15x block money, basis currently .00000725

May we 10x or RIP
some day  Wink

Thats my concern, that I get impatient first watching shit like ARK pump
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April 19, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
 #1480

New explorer is up-and-running on my local test machine. Next steps are to modify it to add tx-comment messages and put it online. The new explorer has a total coin supply calculation which should fix the bug where coinmarketcap is stuck reporting 124 million outstanding FLO. Ostensibly there are just above 132,000,000 FLO in circulation, and no single address holds greater than 10% of all coins. Large addresses are most likely part of exchange wallets.

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