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Author Topic: BiblePay | 10% Charity | POW/PODC | CPU/Cancer Mining | Sanctuaries  (Read 135965 times)
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daemonko
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November 20, 2018, 01:46:59 PM
 #11581

New discussion thread / concept...  Proof Of Giving

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.msg4700#msg4700

Please read over the concept on the wiki, and provide feedback.   

Again this is a pre-implementation discussion, trying to gauge feedback.  I believe this concept would simplify things quite a bit, and would replace the current distributed computing process.


I gave it up after few words....... https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving  Roll Eyes

me too Smiley i think i had enough of all these proofs and game rules changes... and price will soon go to 4 * 10^-8, then 3, 2, 1 and it seems to me it does not look good at all...
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November 20, 2018, 02:21:47 PM
 #11582

New discussion thread / concept...  Proof Of Giving

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.msg4700#msg4700

Please read over the concept on the wiki, and provide feedback.   

Again this is a pre-implementation discussion, trying to gauge feedback.  I believe this concept would simplify things quite a bit, and would replace the current distributed computing process.


I gave it up after few words....... https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving  Roll Eyes

me too Smiley i think i had enough of all these proofs and game rules changes... and price will soon go to 4 * 10^-8, then 3, 2, 1 and it seems to me it does not look good at all...

daemonko, whats your native language?

I think this concept could be good,  will be easier to participate and mine.
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November 20, 2018, 02:38:41 PM
 #11583

New discussion thread / concept...  Proof Of Giving

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.msg4700#msg4700

Please read over the concept on the wiki, and provide feedback.  

Again this is a pre-implementation discussion, trying to gauge feedback.  I believe this concept would simplify things quite a bit, and would replace the current distributed computing process.


I gave it up after few words....... https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving  Roll Eyes

me too Smiley i think i had enough of all these proofs and game rules changes... and price will soon go to 4 * 10^-8, then 3, 2, 1 and it seems to me it does not look good at all...

I realize a lot of people may at first, tend to think "What is BiblePay doing, making another change" - and your intuition is telling you this because you are viewing it as a hassle - or maybe even an environment that would trip up our growth.

But let offer more possibilities for discussion:

1)  We moved to PODC from POBH because our 'botnet' would not upgrade on time (risking a fork for us when we had updates), and the botnet was greedy (taking money from the poor giving to the rich), and the POBH plain algorithm couldnt do anything about it without some type of UTXO punishment involved (which we didnt have).  However, POBH did have the advantage of "easy adoption" - It was very easy to install the wallet and run an integrated miner - remember this aspect.....

2) When we moved to PODC, it was innovative and our price was still high, so it appeared to be worth the effort to switch.

3) Then we added this 20BBP UTXO stake requirement, which makes it even harder to get started for newbies.

Now we are experiencing attrition, and people are telling me we are too complicated to set-up.

Please consider POG for those reasons.  If its easy to set up, we can grow as a community.  Theoretically, a larger community will have more investors over the long term and should therefore allow us to eventually recover in price.  We need to shoot for 10,000 users.  At this point I believe we are shrinking by a user or two per day.  We need to be growing by 3-4 users per day.


And in summary, I admit this - I'm a neutral person - I'm not going to hide when something is a failure.  I admit right here that I believe we made a mistake by voting in the team requirements changes.  It didn't help.  Anyone who wants to use biblepay appears to not mind changing the team.  So what Im saying is we should be adapting and rolling with the punches.



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November 20, 2018, 02:54:00 PM
 #11584

thesnat21, thanks for the response. I agree it can be a vicious circle. I don't want to post there because the environment doesn't seem aligned with what I'd post. But if I don't post, then I can't help change the environment. I'll have to meditate on this more, maybe I need to be the change I want to see. For now, this thread feels more open to these kinds of discussion without concern for censorship based on a single person's perspective. The censorship for the perception of not being "positive" about the project does bug me, especially when the person doing the censoring often goes on the attack themselves?

I notice it seems like a small number of people are responsible for the vast majority of the posts, which are very technically detailed, and I'm not sure who the audience most of you are speaking to.
...
Shouldn't there be more diverse activity for a 500+ page thread?

Actually there are around 800 pages when you count the old thread. Very interesting observation! I agree, this is something very strange for this coin... Other coins of this market cap have many many times fewer posts, and much bigger coins have a lot of diversity in the posts, from a lot of different users. So BiblePay seems almost like a cult of loyal followers, but very few of them, but they are very active. The coin getting more and more complicated only helps to further isolate the cult from potential new members. But I still believe there are a lot of lurkers who only ever read and not post, but they read often and follow the developments.

I'm not sure how to contribute on the main ANN thread. It feels like there's no room there.

Could you elaborate on this? How is there no room in that thread? Is it because of Rob who instills fear of posting, or something else?

Still, it feels like there's a gap somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it..

Well said, I actually feel that way too, I just can't understand what I'm feeling, but this phrase of yours "there's a gap somewhere" solidified my thoughts. I think so too, but I also don't know what it is. It's maybe related to what I wrote in the first paragraph above. I follow many projects too, and neither of them feels even remotely like BiblePay.

Well, I think the word cult is too strong, and not exactly appropriate. It just seems with a lack of diversity, things kind of become a self-feeding closed loop. This has been my observation throughout life, not limited to BBP. When I read the main thread, it's mostly reports from "worker bees", what the main core of people are working on. But I'm having trouble piecing it all together into a cohesive whole.

I don't have any problem with Rob, and have a deep feeling of wanting to help him, to help the project (I do wish he'd chill out some). It's hard when you take the mantle of responsibility for something. It can lead to all kinds of control issues. Getting a project to thrive always means letting more people get involved, which means letting go to some extent. It's difficult, especially for IT folks, and when you personally care about the outcome. This is where surrender to God becomes very helpful, like "I don't want this project to succeed, without divine approval, and I can't know what that is ahead of time." That's how I see it.

I thought about that "gap" more. What I see is, as you said, is an intense concentration of posts by the core folks, and then what feels like a moat before it gets to people like me. It kind of feels like being on the outside. You need the core for functioning, but you also need a bigger involvement to grow.  It's vital to a project's (any project's) health to bring in new people. Being on the "inside" all the time, it's too easy to forget one's "beginner mind". It will actually be impossible to retain this being very involved in the project, which is why it's vital to always have newbies, and not deride them for needing "hand-holding". It's hard to account for how damaging that is, or how many people just walk away after getting the feeling of not being honored and wanted.

I'm still new enough to have that kind of mind, and that's what I bring to each of the projects I'm involved with. If I can't succinctly explain what a project is to my parents, or someone at the supermarket without the jargon like PoBH and such, that's a sign that it's going to be hard to grow without more focus. I do writing on the side, and it's important to have an "elevator pitch", a 20 second explanation for the endeavor. I would say for BBP, it should just be the fundamental hope to bring genuine Christian values to cryptocurrency. It doesn't matter if it's orphans or widows, that's not the heart of it. It's the hope. I think that gets obscured somewhat. (see comment about use cases at bottom).

Personally, I think the Dash model doesn't help. It seems to me to be very non-democratic, and difficult to interface with the project's values as I seem them. But I realize that's already set in stone. Some other projects don't have such formal duties, and when it's time for an exchange, it's just asked that people donate crypto when interested in a new exchange. It seems more inclusive and free-flowing, and community-driven. And if people don't want to fund it, then it doesn't happen. Nobody takes ultimate responsibility. Here, it seems very formal (maybe the project's size needs that?), and like BBP is employment for some. I just can't wrap my mind around things like IT and marketing budgets. They're needed, but on a continual basis every month? It's as if BBP is an employment opportunity, which I think looks odd from the outside--the haves and have-nots. The expenses always seem tied to the same few people always spinning off new ideas that cost bbp to implement. Sure, Rob says step up if you want to be involved, but frankly it's not a very open environment at present and I question to what degree he means that. And I'm not sure the core group will allow the space for that to happen, which can really hamper long-term growth. A project this size should have at least a dozen people cranking out code, which would allow for more volunteer opportunities and lessen the "budget".

Thanks for your feedback and attention. I wouldn't put this much thought into it if I didn't see a lot of promise for this coin.

Edit: One thing I think BBP is missing is use cases for the coin. It kind of functions as a currency for the core group, but why would your average Joe or Jane Smith use the coin, other than as an investment? It kind of seems like the coin's use, outside the core group, is lost. This is a big problem for a lot of crypto, but really apparent here.

It shows that you're a writer. Smiley Not because of the length, but the quality of words. You have good points, I nodded all the way through.

like BBP is employment for some

This is interesting, I think you are right, the people in BBP look more like employees of a company than freelancers. But that is mostly true in Dash too. Hopefully PoG could change that.
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November 20, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
 #11585

Reminder to discuss POG:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.new#new


Also I see we have a ton of Proposals in pool.biblepay.org that are not voted on (someone did vote on one) - see proposals in wallet or in pool and please vote sancs.  (We have 8.5 more days before the superblock).






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November 20, 2018, 03:11:09 PM
 #11586

Reminder to discuss POG:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.new#new


Also I see we have a ton of Proposals in pool.biblepay.org that are not voted on (someone did vote on one) - see proposals in wallet or in pool and please vote sancs.  (We have 8.5 more days before the superblock).


When does voting for superblocks end?
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November 20, 2018, 03:23:32 PM
 #11587

Hi everyone!

A few comments here, if I'm allowed....

First of all, I'm getting really tired of those "fights" on this discussion thread. It really looks like angry teens fighting, with often silly and unproved arguments, and it mostly makes the project look like something not attractive at all. Especially concerning the purpose and name of the project... Really disappointing.

Then, concerning the "Proof of Giving"... Maybe someone will give a simple and clear explanation of how this actually works (not with specific terms, eventually created for the purpose of the project, but with general accessible vocabulary) ("tithe"?? really? we're talking about "tithe"? I'm not native English but I'm fluent, and I had to check the translation for this word...). Then people will be able to understand how it's supposed to work. But for now, I get really lost in the explanations on the wiki page Sad That's for the "simplification" part Smiley Maybe it will actually be easier to start working with the BiblePay project using that new "algorithm", but I do believe that the "easy" part of it has to come from the applications that allow a new member to create a new wallet and start the mining process. Give that "Proof of Giving", "Proof of Distributed Computing" or "Proof of Waking Up Early In the Morning" names won't change anything, as long as the user has to go through a fastidious process to start it all.
The PoDC concept is not bad at all, the fact that new users have to get to a certain amount of staked BBP to be able to get their 100% reward is smart and good too, it would just all be clearer if we had one modern and stylish application that configures everything in a few clicks, and then clearly shows what to expect (what you get from that podcstatus.php one user posted, but more "synthetic", for example using some gauges to show the current status, the estimated delay before going "full PODC", and some red/light checkboxes to show whether BOINC is correctly linked and everything).
This application could even be used to give members access to those lovely photos of the orphans and the helped people that benefit from our actions, and also to access some specific docs (accounting and such).

No member would ever ask those neverending "I registered few days ago but I cannot see my xxxx info on the pool/biblepay-central and I'm not receiving any BBP yet, how can I be sure that I did everything right?"
And the global feeling will be more friendly and welcoming, less hardcore-techie geek (not saying that the members are not very welcoming, I did feel very welcome when I joined the community few months ago, and people were very helpful to guide me through the hassle of setting everything right).

I'm 100% sure that focusing on this aspect would do much more for global adoption than any algorithm change.

Peace to everyone, and be nice to eachother! Smiley
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November 20, 2018, 03:31:27 PM
 #11588

Reminder to discuss POG:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=319.new#new


Also I see we have a ton of Proposals in pool.biblepay.org that are not voted on (someone did vote on one) - see proposals in wallet or in pool and please vote sancs.  (We have 8.5 more days before the superblock).


When does voting for superblocks end?

Approx. 24 hours before block 86100 (thats Nov 27th roughly).  At that point the wallet starts trying to make a budget, and the pool moves the highest voted proposals from the voting section to the budget section.


🕇 BiblePay 🕇
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🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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November 20, 2018, 03:39:42 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2018, 04:57:07 PM by thesnat21
 #11589

Hi everyone!

A few comments here, if I'm allowed....

First of all, I'm getting really tired of those "fights" on this discussion thread. It really looks like angry teens fighting, with often silly and unproved arguments, and it mostly makes the project look like something not attractive at all. Especially concerning the purpose and name of the project... Really disappointing.

Then, concerning the "Proof of Giving"... Maybe someone will give a simple and clear explanation of how this actually works (not with specific terms, eventually created for the purpose of the project, but with general accessible vocabulary) ("tithe"?? really? we're talking about "tithe"? I'm not native English but I'm fluent, and I had to check the translation for this word...). Then people will be able to understand how it's supposed to work. But for now, I get really lost in the explanations on the wiki page Sad That's for the "simplification" part Smiley Maybe it will actually be easier to start working with the BiblePay project using that new "algorithm", but I do believe that the "easy" part of it has to come from the applications that allow a new member to create a new wallet and start the mining process. Give that "Proof of Giving", "Proof of Distributed Computing" or "Proof of Waking Up Early In the Morning" names won't change anything, as long as the user has to go through a fastidious process to start it all.
The PoDC concept is not bad at all, the fact that new users have to get to a certain amount of staked BBP to be able to get their 100% reward is smart and good too, it would just all be clearer if we had one modern and stylish application that configures everything in a few clicks, and then clearly shows what to expect (what you get from that podcstatus.php one user posted, but more "synthetic", for example using some gauges to show the current status, the estimated delay before going "full PODC", and some red/light checkboxes to show whether BOINC is correctly linked and everything).
This application could even be used to give members access to those lovely photos of the orphans and the helped people that benefit from our actions, and also to access some specific docs (accounting and such).

No member would ever ask those neverending "I registered few days ago but I cannot see my xxxx info on the pool/biblepay-central and I'm not receiving any BBP yet, how can I be sure that I did everything right?"
And the global feeling will be more friendly and welcoming, less hardcore-techie geek (not saying that the members are not very welcoming, I did feel very welcome when I joined the community few months ago, and people were very helpful to guide me through the hassle of setting everything right).

I'm 100% sure that focusing on this aspect would do much more for global adoption than any algorithm change.

Peace to everyone, and be nice to eachother! Smiley

I agree on the being nice to eachother!

I will try to work on a more simple description of POG,  it seems to be an issue for non-native English speakers.

Also,  Red/Green checks for indicators will be added to the PODC Status script soon


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November 20, 2018, 03:44:37 PM
 #11590

Hi everyone!

A few comments here, if I'm allowed....

First of all, I'm getting really tired of those "fights" on this discussion thread. It really looks like angry teens fighting, with often silly and unproved arguments, and it mostly makes the project look like something not attractive at all. Especially concerning the purpose and name of the project... Really disappointing.

Then, concerning the "Proof of Giving"... Maybe someone will give a simple and clear explanation of how this actually works (not with specific terms, eventually created for the purpose of the project, but with general accessible vocabulary) ("tithe"?? really? we're talking about "tithe"? I'm not native English but I'm fluent, and I had to check the translation for this word...). Then people will be able to understand how it's supposed to work. But for now, I get really lost in the explanations on the wiki page Sad That's for the "simplification" part Smiley Maybe it will actually be easier to start working with the BiblePay project using that new "algorithm", but I do believe that the "easy" part of it has to come from the applications that allow a new member to create a new wallet and start the mining process. Give that "Proof of Giving", "Proof of Distributed Computing" or "Proof of Waking Up Early In the Morning" names won't change anything, as long as the user has to go through a fastidious process to start it all.
The PoDC concept is not bad at all, the fact that new users have to get to a certain amount of staked BBP to be able to get their 100% reward is smart and good too, it would just all be clearer if we had one modern and stylish application that configures everything in a few clicks, and then clearly shows what to expect (what you get from that podcstatus.php one user posted, but more "synthetic", for example using some gauges to show the current status, the estimated delay before going "full PODC", and some red/light checkboxes to show whether BOINC is correctly linked and everything).
This application could even be used to give members access to those lovely photos of the orphans and the helped people that benefit from our actions, and also to access some specific docs (accounting and such).

No member would ever ask those neverending "I registered few days ago but I cannot see my xxxx info on the pool/biblepay-central and I'm not receiving any BBP yet, how can I be sure that I did everything right?"
And the global feeling will be more friendly and welcoming, less hardcore-techie geek (not saying that the members are not very welcoming, I did feel very welcome when I joined the community few months ago, and people were very helpful to guide me through the hassle of setting everything right).

I'm 100% sure that focusing on this aspect would do much more for global adoption than any algorithm change.

Peace to everyone, and be nice to eachother! Smiley

Thanks Tybiboune, good insights.

I really have to agree with you to a point- regarding the ability to make PODC 'friendly' - given enough time and resources, that might be possible.  But I also wonder, maybe we should leave that gem and community reward for Gridcoin.  Maybe we should consider focusing all our time energy and intelligence on the gospel here - possibly - with POG instead.   I will leave this part of the discussion for later, but from an overarching summary:  I feel at this point in time, we could have all the tools in the world, but when we are done - "maybe" 10 housewives would still never dream of installing a second program on their PC to gain RAC (IE downloading boinc, registering with Rosetta) and learning what RAC is, but they "might" consider loading up biblepay and clicking Start.  That's basically where we are.  Its possible theoretically to take BOINC and virtualize all of its features (with developer business logic/assumptions down to a crypto interface), but do we have the time - resources here to do it within one year, and will BOINC hold up against the Swongle test forever?  These are all risks we have to consider.  

Let me move on to POG:

Please, if this explanation is too technical for anyone, note that I am not too exaspirated to explain it in more detail.

Tithing is the act of giving your BiblePay away to the orphan foundation (in contrast to burning it).  It allows us to record your public receiving address in a transaction (if we want to reward you later with a mining reward), and adds you to the internal pool.

POG is an idea where we have an internal pool (inside the wallet) instead of a set of supporter pools.  It accomplishes this by paying coinbase rewards to multiple recipients (instead of 1, we pay up to 32,767 recipients per 'tranche').  A tranche is a set of miners who have similar 'tithing power'.  Tithing power is the sum that you gave over the last 24 hours to the orphanage foundation.

In POG, we level the playing field by rewarding tithe_weight to the solving ability with a higher magnitude than mining_hashpower.  Another words, with higher tithes, a laptop beats a 96 core miner for the current block because of the tithe_weight.  


And then philosophically speaking, we have to look at what we are gaining in either scenario.  If we stay with PODC, it is a given we spend a lot on electricity (about $20K per month as of last month).  POG otoh, removing the 'competetiveness' from mining and changing the heart to giving, lowers the electricity consumption (because you are rewarded for tithe_weight, not hashpower), therefore theoretically more orphans could be sponsored with POG than with PODC.  




🕇 BiblePay 🕇
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🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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November 20, 2018, 05:25:10 PM
 #11591

Even if the proposed POG solution with it's own set of rules/terminology has some merit, the timing is questionable. With POOM still in discussion, POG will be perceived as another example of the impulsive leadership style that investors have grown weary of.

It's also unlikely that POG will repair our multi-faceted public relations problem. It could easily do more harm than good by causing loyal yet battle-stressed investors to leave the project. If that happens, this attempt to attract new money with an untested idea will amplify the attrition problem.

Instead of reacting to the current PR challenges by adding another layer of well-intended complexity, I suggest we first focus on making it easier to setup the features we already have before introducing anything new like POG or POOM. At the very least I think we should remain steady during this latest bitcoin price implosion and postpone any major changes until after Christmas.
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November 20, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
 #11592

Fixed; sorry about that; data response size was bigger than the allowed buffer; Fixed.

I just saw the first new block in the podc list in BC. Looks good

Purepool Biblepay Pool (https://www.purepool.org)
Mining How-To (https://www.biblepay-central.org/en/mining-how-to/)
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November 20, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
 #11593

Fixed; sorry about that; data response size was bigger than the allowed buffer; Fixed.

I just saw the first new block in the podc list in BC. Looks good

Licht: can you pm me,  i'd like to talk a bit via email
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November 20, 2018, 07:02:46 PM
 #11594

Even if the proposed POG solution with it's own set of rules/terminology has some merit, the timing is questionable. With POOM still in discussion, POG will be perceived as another example of the impulsive leadership style that investors have grown weary of.

It's also unlikely that POG will repair our multi-faceted public relations problem. It could easily do more harm than good by causing loyal yet battle-stressed investors to leave the project. If that happens, this attempt to attract new money with an untested idea will amplify the attrition problem.

Instead of reacting to the current PR challenges by adding another layer of well-intended complexity, I suggest we first focus on making it easier to setup the features we already have before introducing anything new like POG or POOM. At the very least I think we should remain steady during this latest bitcoin price implosion and postpone any major changes until after Christmas.

I get the concerns about frequent changes... but the most common heard issue is "its so dang hard to get setup"...

I have concerns about removing the stake requirement, and some other aspects but in general I like the idea.

I do agree PR is a large issue we need to address.. I'm open to suggestions
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November 20, 2018, 07:26:03 PM
 #11595

1000x wrote


paid for PR professionals

🕇 BiblePay - CPU only | Masternodes | ROSETTA@HOME Curing diseases | 10% goes to charity 🕇

BiblePay (BBP) | Reddit - Twitter - Forum - Slack - Discord | C-CEX - CoinsMarkets
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November 20, 2018, 07:45:08 PM
 #11596

1000x wrote


paid for PR professionals

Know any? Smiley
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November 20, 2018, 08:16:52 PM
 #11597

no.....this will be your problem=native english lang

🕇 BiblePay - CPU only | Masternodes | ROSETTA@HOME Curing diseases | 10% goes to charity 🕇

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November 20, 2018, 08:42:31 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2018, 09:48:10 PM by bible_pay
 #11598

Even if the proposed POG solution with it's own set of rules/terminology has some merit, the timing is questionable. With POOM still in discussion, POG will be perceived as another example of the impulsive leadership style that investors have grown weary of.

It's also unlikely that POG will repair our multi-faceted public relations problem. It could easily do more harm than good by causing loyal yet battle-stressed investors to leave the project. If that happens, this attempt to attract new money with an untested idea will amplify the attrition problem.

Instead of reacting to the current PR challenges by adding another layer of well-intended complexity, I suggest we first focus on making it easier to setup the features we already have before introducing anything new like POG or POOM. At the very least I think we should remain steady during this latest bitcoin price implosion and postpone any major changes until after Christmas.

Well actually there is no evidence that "I" or "my" leadership style is what drove away investors.  Actually there is more evidence that the infighting which I have seen first hand in this community (IE community members actually attacking the lead developer) combined with the current HODL bear market is what is causing attrition.  

We are clearly hard to set up.  And I am receiving these complaints that we are hard to setup (IE these aren't pie in the sky fairy tales).  

POOM is not being considered at the same time as POG - they are separate large ideas.  I will put POG up for vote first, simply because of thesnats concerns about POOM (basically one allowing their account to be logged in - which I admit IS questionable).  But I dont say the same thing about POG.

Btw, I never received an answer for my e-mail, so I think you consider fully engaging in the replies before blaming me as the "problem" for our current rut.  (Your post is a good example of what is a bad example to be posted on the forum - something that attacks with a mean spirit, and something that is not known to be true).

In addition, I don't think we ever Had a 'real' PR campaign.  I don't think we have PR problems yet (other than image perception problems).  We arent even scratching the surface yet.  Thats what is all about - becoming popular.  And its not untested - the popularity model worked for the top 50 coins - except they did it with popular mining algorithms.  We are supposed to Christian here - therefore I support POG instead of X11.

EDIT:  Just to clarify, POG has to be considered, voted, programmed, tested in testnet, and scheduled for a mandatory btw.  There is no consideration of releasing untested code.  This cycle probably takes a minimum of 60 days even if we were trying to release quickly, and as long as half a year if we were doing this at slow speed.   We also have to consider CoinExchange, when they will allow an upgrade.  If you were referring to my impulsive removal of QT, that was once, but I think the longer term track record of reliable releases speaks more accurately.  On that proposal, Ill be resuscitating it soon and starting a discussion on it also (so in the end - it will erase that instance of being impulsive).




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togoshigekata
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November 20, 2018, 10:10:12 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2018, 10:38:24 PM by togoshigekata
 #11599

Advertising/Marketing:
a. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg36138565#msg36138565
b. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg41633372#msg41633372

Spaghetti Documentation:
a. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg46214666#msg46214666
b. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg46250760#msg46250760

Jaap & April need PR help:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg46534233#msg46534233
(April has some professional PR experience, shes been very nice to help us)

Stats/Growth Indicators?:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg42714861#msg42714861
(Are we tracking number of miners now?, a monthly report on our key stats/growth would be cool)

Google Ads:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=204.0
(Google ended their Cryptocurrency Ad Ban like 2 months ago,
zthomasz pointed out we rank like 6th/7th for keyword "christian cryptocurrency",
to my knowledge no one is running a google ad for BiblePay right now)

BiblePay Advertising Google Sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1grgb5Y74XMqShKDp051h1bSZVbHzRLna1bYzoTh6MAY/edit#gid=0

NOTE: Once we get the end of the year statement from Compassion I believe we could then finally get Bitcointalk Banner Advertising from Theymos
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=83.0

===

Recently I advertised on WCG forums, Rosetta@home forums, I reached out to Team Christians, I advertised on BOINC subreddit
Combined probably only got like 300-400+ views though, 70% from BOINC reddit, the BOINC Cruncher guide has 220 views so far
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=314.0

PODC setup is not easy/user friendly, but we havent even made a good guide, and we dont even have a Youtube tutorial!
(guy who made a mining setup video for BiblePay got 3,000 views!, pretty sure it became outdated when PODC came out,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1yKx8KsH60 [60-70% of the population are visual learners!])

=

We have all been early adopters and beta testers I feel like the BiblePay code is stable now

If we truly want to beat out and consume Gridcoin and get all the BOINC Crunchers I believe we should rebrand away from Christianity being the main focus/name,
reading all the Gridcoin Discord/Reddit/Slack messages the past year, I dont think Ive seen one religious person there, but I have seen religion joked about a few times, the WCG forums also had someone with a Freedom From Religion signature (our biggest reddit post was about us reaching rank 666 on coinmarketcap..., weve also been attacked by bitcointalk forum mod and high ranking member for being religious coin...) The current crypto population is not very open to religion, I think this will change as more people get into crypto, but for now, that is the case

6 Common Perceptions of Christians
https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/138865-i-like-jesus-not-the-church.html

Five Ways Christianity Is Increasingly Viewed as Extremist
https://www.barna.com/research/five-ways-christianity-is-increasingly-viewed-as-extremist/

Is Christianity on the decline?

=

Assuming we want to keep Christianity as a key focus of the coin
and that we want as many miners as possible (1 click mining),
I think moving away from PODC is a good idea then

It does suck though, because I believe the direction Rob has gone with Masternodes and POBH/PODC as superior to Gridcoin/Foldingcoin/Curecoin,
and PODC is one of the coolest things we do, Id support BiblePay 1 click mining coin and a rebranded Science Fork coin, though sounds like a mess supporting 2 coins

=

I have to re-read Proof of Giving (POG) and Proof of Orphan Mining (POOM) some more
https://wiki.biblepay.org/Concept_POOM
https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving

With POOM, I didnt like that all of our private info is on one service, but I love how it decentralizes the orphan sponsorships!

With POG, the coins all go the Orphan Address? Who controls that address?
Is POG similar to Proof of Burn? Are there reasons why other coins haven't really used Proof of Burn?
(theres been a ton of bad PR lately about how Bitcoin/crypto uses so much energy, this sounds like an interesting solution)

Slimcoin looks like it died
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=613213.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1141676.0

===

Warning: Shark Pool
"All alts, including forks and splits are acts of war against Bitcoin and are going to be treated as such.
Shark Pool miners will exclusively mine empty blocks on alts and sell the profits for Bitcoin (BCH).
We are looking for capable generals to hunt alts down at 0% poolfee!"
https://www.ccn.com/war-bitcoin-cash-startup-launches-mining-pool-to-attack-altcoins-bch-forks/
https://sharkpool.cash/

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November 20, 2018, 11:49:51 PM
 #11600

Even if the proposed POG solution with it's own set of rules/terminology has some merit, the timing is questionable. With POOM still in discussion, POG will be perceived as another example of the impulsive leadership style that investors have grown weary of.

It's also unlikely that POG will repair our multi-faceted public relations problem. It could easily do more harm than good by causing loyal yet battle-stressed investors to leave the project. If that happens, this attempt to attract new money with an untested idea will amplify the attrition problem.

Instead of reacting to the current PR challenges by adding another layer of well-intended complexity, I suggest we first focus on making it easier to setup the features we already have before introducing anything new like POG or POOM. At the very least I think we should remain steady during this latest bitcoin price implosion and postpone any major changes until after Christmas.

Well actually there is no evidence that "I" or "my" leadership style is what drove away investors.  Actually there is more evidence that the infighting which I have seen first hand in this community (IE community members actually attacking the lead developer) combined with the current HODL bear market is what is causing attrition.  

We are clearly hard to set up.  And I am receiving these complaints that we are hard to setup (IE these aren't pie in the sky fairy tales).  

POOM is not being considered at the same time as POG - they are separate large ideas.  I will put POG up for vote first, simply because of thesnats concerns about POOM (basically one allowing their account to be logged in - which I admit IS questionable).  But I dont say the same thing about POG.

Btw, I never received an answer for my e-mail, so I think you consider fully engaging in the replies before blaming me as the "problem" for our current rut.  (Your post is a good example of what is a bad example to be posted on the forum - something that attacks with a mean spirit, and something that is not known to be true).

In addition, I don't think we ever Had a 'real' PR campaign.  I don't think we have PR problems yet (other than image perception problems).  We arent even scratching the surface yet.  Thats what is all about - becoming popular.  And its not untested - the popularity model worked for the top 50 coins - except they did it with popular mining algorithms.  We are supposed to Christian here - therefore I support POG instead of X11.

EDIT:  Just to clarify, POG has to be considered, voted, programmed, tested in testnet, and scheduled for a mandatory btw.  There is no consideration of releasing untested code.  This cycle probably takes a minimum of 60 days even if we were trying to release quickly, and as long as half a year if we were doing this at slow speed.   We also have to consider CoinExchange, when they will allow an upgrade.  If you were referring to my impulsive removal of QT, that was once, but I think the longer term track record of reliable releases speaks more accurately.  On that proposal, Ill be resuscitating it soon and starting a discussion on it also (so in the end - it will erase that instance of being impulsive).


I didn't attack you or anyone else. Take a minute to relax and then re-read what I wrote. It isn't "mean spirited."

Yes, PODC is "hard to setup." This is widely known. That's why I suggested we make it and the other features easier.

I wasn't referring to a "popularity" model being untested, but to the POG / tithing model.





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