BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[vahtis]

Like I said, I have a huge heart for PODC and love the mission, but I still have a strong feeling that we've gone away from our core mission - and will end up primarily supporting new users and science with valuable time that could potentially be used for witnessing/gospel mission/spreading Jesus.  And of course, organic growth. 

Anyway, moving on to your concern about 5 year olds, I strongly disagree that POG2 is as hard as PODC.  Its an utter fallacy.  I wrote out just some of the acronyms off the top of my head a few pages back (for PODC) and its simply the truth that a new user would not only need to delve into crypto, mining, but also into all these other things that they might not really care about.

But let me get to my point, the main advantage to POG is that every single element related to block solving/mining/rewards is within the wallet in a hard and signed way - meaning that new users get a copy of the wallet, they receive 500 bbp from the faucet (or whatever), they tithe, the rewards are given within the integrated pool, and there are no third party pieces of infrastructure (no passwords, no accounts, no contracts, no magnitude, no third party helper sites, no need for support) etc, and this means a tight money supply - all emitted coins are signed and therefore there can not be any leakage or mistakes made (with pools or anything).  This would satisfy Satoshi and some of the bigger investors that might be making a pause to trust that we dont leak any coins anywhere.

Finally, as far as explaining it, its really a piece of cake.  If you experimented with our wallet for one night with POG you would be mining.

Its as simple as:


1.  Download wallet.
2.  Collect faucet reward.
3.  Enter two settings in config file (genproclimit=1 and tithe=10) <- NOTE: We will definitely automate these things once we know how testing is working in testnet
4.  Start the miner

For the advanced user, they will just type getminininginfo and learn about a few new fields (how tithe_difficulty effects their ability to tithe).

These are basic concepts, and people need to wake up - A 5 year old really could mine biblepay and get the money for the first purchase from Mom .

Except, if Difficulty is at about 32K, then the 500 they get from a faucet will

1) Not be 30 days old for 30 days
2) Never exceed the 12,500 BBP balance they need tithe

In short, the higher the difficulty (which by logic will trend towards the 32K level which is the break even level), the less likely a new user can easily participate.  This would likely cause confusion on why the PoG was not working for them, and for a neophyte computer user, would likely be enough to frustrate them out of the coin.  Meanwhile, a certain faction of our users would likely create 1000 new wallets with 18K BBP in them to get extra rewards (waiting out the time limit as experienced users and selecting enough to perpetually fund the system while it was profitable to do).

I was thinking exactly the same thing.
There will be some big players around that will do everything to keep most of the profits to them.

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[vahtis]

By the way I tried to vote on forum, but I needed to register and I could not pass these pretty simple questions. As I did bot know the answers by heart.
How about you? Could you answer these

Mikä on rukouksen nimi, jossa sanotaan "Taivaallinen isämme pyhitetty olkoon nimesi"?

Minkä nimisessä salmissa sanotaan "Hän johdatti minua nimessään oikeuden tiellä"?

[thesnat21]

By the way I tried to vote on forum, but I needed to register and I could not pass these pretty simple questions. As I did bot know the answers by heart.
How about you? Could you answer these

Mikä on rukouksen nimi, jossa sanotaan "Taivaallinen isämme pyhitetty olkoon nimesi"?

Minkä nimisessä salmissa sanotaan "Hän johdatti minua nimessään oikeuden tiellä"?

I'll look at an alternative to the questions...  I don't even know what language that is! lol thanks for the feedback

[sunk818]

Mikä on rukouksen nimi, jossa sanotaan "Taivaallinen isämme pyhitetty olkoon nimesi"?

What is the name of prayer that says "Our Heavenly Father is Sanctified by Your Name"?

Lord's Prayer?

Minkä nimisessä salmissa sanotaan "Hän johdatti minua nimessään oikeuden tiellä"?

In what name is the word "He led me in the name of the right path"?

Good Sheperd? Jesus?

The questions aren't very good captcha questions. You assume our visitors will be Finnish Christians?

[vahtis]

Mikä on rukouksen nimi, jossa sanotaan "Taivaallinen isämme pyhitetty olkoon nimesi"?

What is the name of prayer that says "Our Heavenly Father is Sanctified by Your Name"?

Lord's Prayer?

Minkä nimisessä salmissa sanotaan "Hän johdatti minua nimessään oikeuden tiellä"?

In what name is the word "He led me in the name of the right path"?

Good Sheperd? Jesus?

The questions aren't very good captcha questions. You assume our visitors will be Finnish Christians?

Maybe you missed my point a bit. Or I do not understand your meaning.
I think that asking cultural related captcha questions is not the best idea.

[thesnat21]

Mikä on rukouksen nimi, jossa sanotaan "Taivaallinen isämme pyhitetty olkoon nimesi"?

What is the name of prayer that says "Our Heavenly Father is Sanctified by Your Name"?

Lord's Prayer?

Minkä nimisessä salmissa sanotaan "Hän johdatti minua nimessään oikeuden tiellä"?

In what name is the word "He led me in the name of the right path"?

Good Sheperd? Jesus?

The questions aren't very good captcha questions. You assume our visitors will be Finnish Christians?

Maybe you missed my point a bit. Or I do not understand your meaning.
I think that asking cultural related captcha questions is not the best idea.

Give me a day or two i'll update the registration to something more user friendly.

The questions served their purpose, (reducing spammers) but I want real users to be able to sign up.

[shorty34]

Like I said, I have a huge heart for PODC and love the mission, but I still have a strong feeling that we've gone away from our core mission - and will end up primarily supporting new users and science with valuable time that could potentially be used for witnessing/gospel mission/spreading Jesus.  And of course, organic growth. 

Anyway, moving on to your concern about 5 year olds, I strongly disagree that POG2 is as hard as PODC.  Its an utter fallacy.  I wrote out just some of the acronyms off the top of my head a few pages back (for PODC) and its simply the truth that a new user would not only need to delve into crypto, mining, but also into all these other things that they might not really care about.

But let me get to my point, the main advantage to POG is that every single element related to block solving/mining/rewards is within the wallet in a hard and signed way - meaning that new users get a copy of the wallet, they receive 500 bbp from the faucet (or whatever), they tithe, the rewards are given within the integrated pool, and there are no third party pieces of infrastructure (no passwords, no accounts, no contracts, no magnitude, no third party helper sites, no need for support) etc, and this means a tight money supply - all emitted coins are signed and therefore there can not be any leakage or mistakes made (with pools or anything).  This would satisfy Satoshi and some of the bigger investors that might be making a pause to trust that we dont leak any coins anywhere.

Finally, as far as explaining it, its really a piece of cake.  If you experimented with our wallet for one night with POG you would be mining.

Its as simple as:


1.  Download wallet.
2.  Collect faucet reward.
3.  Enter two settings in config file (genproclimit=1 and tithe=10) <- NOTE: We will definitely automate these things once we know how testing is working in testnet
4.  Start the miner

For the advanced user, they will just type getminininginfo and learn about a few new fields (how tithe_difficulty effects their ability to tithe).

These are basic concepts, and people need to wake up - A 5 year old really could mine biblepay and get the money for the first purchase from Mom .

Except, if Difficulty is at about 32K, then the 500 they get from a faucet will

1) Not be 30 days old for 30 days
2) Never exceed the 12,500 BBP balance they need tithe

In short, the higher the difficulty (which by logic will trend towards the 32K level which is the break even level), the less likely a new user can easily participate.  This would likely cause confusion on why the PoG was not working for them, and for a neophyte computer user, would likely be enough to frustrate them out of the coin.  Meanwhile, a certain faction of our users would likely create 1000 new wallets with 18K BBP in them to get extra rewards (waiting out the time limit as experienced users and selecting enough to perpetually fund the system while it was profitable to do).

I was thinking exactly the same thing.
There will be some big players around that will do everything to keep most of the profits to them.

Perfect catch there!

While new users try to understand what is difficulty and coin-age, experienced sharks (not even whales) will collect a much bigger chunk of the rewards than current PODC whales are doing

[capulo]

you dont need to be shark or whale:
if you bet (tithe) N x BBP and win (payout) M x N BPP, where M>1 then it is logical that you will try to increase N to maximum, and if you hit limit (set by diff or whatever) then you will create multiple wallets

i know nobody who will tithe low if he can earn more by tithe more...

[bible_pay]

Like I said, I have a huge heart for PODC and love the mission, but I still have a strong feeling that we've gone away from our core mission - and will end up primarily supporting new users and science with valuable time that could potentially be used for witnessing/gospel mission/spreading Jesus.  And of course, organic growth.  

Anyway, moving on to your concern about 5 year olds, I strongly disagree that POG2 is as hard as PODC.  Its an utter fallacy.  I wrote out just some of the acronyms off the top of my head a few pages back (for PODC) and its simply the truth that a new user would not only need to delve into crypto, mining, but also into all these other things that they might not really care about.

But let me get to my point, the main advantage to POG is that every single element related to block solving/mining/rewards is within the wallet in a hard and signed way - meaning that new users get a copy of the wallet, they receive 500 bbp from the faucet (or whatever), they tithe, the rewards are given within the integrated pool, and there are no third party pieces of infrastructure (no passwords, no accounts, no contracts, no magnitude, no third party helper sites, no need for support) etc, and this means a tight money supply - all emitted coins are signed and therefore there can not be any leakage or mistakes made (with pools or anything).  This would satisfy Satoshi and some of the bigger investors that might be making a pause to trust that we dont leak any coins anywhere.

Finally, as far as explaining it, its really a piece of cake.  If you experimented with our wallet for one night with POG you would be mining.

Its as simple as:


1.  Download wallet.
2.  Collect faucet reward.
3.  Enter two settings in config file (genproclimit=1 and tithe=10) <- NOTE: We will definitely automate these things once we know how testing is working in testnet
4.  Start the miner

For the advanced user, they will just type getminininginfo and learn about a few new fields (how tithe_difficulty effects their ability to tithe).

These are basic concepts, and people need to wake up - A 5 year old really could mine biblepay and get the money for the first purchase from Mom .

Except, if Difficulty is at about 32K, then the 500 they get from a faucet will

1) Not be 30 days old for 30 days
2) Never exceed the 12,500 BBP balance they need tithe

In short, the higher the difficulty (which by logic will trend towards the 32K level which is the break even level), the less likely a new user can easily participate.  This would likely cause confusion on why the PoG was not working for them, and for a neophyte computer user, would likely be enough to frustrate them out of the coin.  Meanwhile, a certain faction of our users would likely create 1000 new wallets with 18K BBP in them to get extra rewards (waiting out the time limit as experienced users and selecting enough to perpetually fund the system while it was profitable to do).

Except you forgot that pool payouts are daily and the pool reward is re-used as a new tithe over and over - so this is also inaccurate.  If we work together this simple "problem" (which I suppose isn't a problem) can be solved.

On creating new wallets, I guess you didn't read the wiki, so yes, this is also inaccurate (unless you want to waste your time and create 1000 wallets for no reason).

As far as "breakeven", the entire difficulty range is 'profitable' from a mining standpoint (we pay 1-2 mil a day for rewards and collect 100k per day in tithes) - so I wouldnt assume 32767 is the breakeven, as your not taking into consideration the coin age required to push up to 32767 - it might be somewhere between 1000 and 32K but I think we are both guessing without making a simulation.  The answer lies in how many users have coin-age available on a given day.

I recommend trying to work with us to help the newbie get involved with potential solutions in testnet - why hurt the new users?

[bible_pay]

Like I said, I have a huge heart for PODC and love the mission, but I still have a strong feeling that we've gone away from our core mission - and will end up primarily supporting new users and science with valuable time that could potentially be used for witnessing/gospel mission/spreading Jesus.  And of course, organic growth. 

Anyway, moving on to your concern about 5 year olds, I strongly disagree that POG2 is as hard as PODC.  Its an utter fallacy.  I wrote out just some of the acronyms off the top of my head a few pages back (for PODC) and its simply the truth that a new user would not only need to delve into crypto, mining, but also into all these other things that they might not really care about.

But let me get to my point, the main advantage to POG is that every single element related to block solving/mining/rewards is within the wallet in a hard and signed way - meaning that new users get a copy of the wallet, they receive 500 bbp from the faucet (or whatever), they tithe, the rewards are given within the integrated pool, and there are no third party pieces of infrastructure (no passwords, no accounts, no contracts, no magnitude, no third party helper sites, no need for support) etc, and this means a tight money supply - all emitted coins are signed and therefore there can not be any leakage or mistakes made (with pools or anything).  This would satisfy Satoshi and some of the bigger investors that might be making a pause to trust that we dont leak any coins anywhere.

Finally, as far as explaining it, its really a piece of cake.  If you experimented with our wallet for one night with POG you would be mining.

Its as simple as:


1.  Download wallet.
2.  Collect faucet reward.
3.  Enter two settings in config file (genproclimit=1 and tithe=10) <- NOTE: We will definitely automate these things once we know how testing is working in testnet
4.  Start the miner

For the advanced user, they will just type getminininginfo and learn about a few new fields (how tithe_difficulty effects their ability to tithe).

These are basic concepts, and people need to wake up - A 5 year old really could mine biblepay and get the money for the first purchase from Mom .

Except, if Difficulty is at about 32K, then the 500 they get from a faucet will

1) Not be 30 days old for 30 days
2) Never exceed the 12,500 BBP balance they need tithe

In short, the higher the difficulty (which by logic will trend towards the 32K level which is the break even level), the less likely a new user can easily participate.  This would likely cause confusion on why the PoG was not working for them, and for a neophyte computer user, would likely be enough to frustrate them out of the coin.  Meanwhile, a certain faction of our users would likely create 1000 new wallets with 18K BBP in them to get extra rewards (waiting out the time limit as experienced users and selecting enough to perpetually fund the system while it was profitable to do).

I was thinking exactly the same thing.
There will be some big players around that will do everything to keep most of the profits to them.

Not really, if anyone comes up with what they think is an unfair advantage in testnet, post it.  The sharks wont have an unfair advantage as everyone on the network needs the same requirement:  an aged coin greater in Amount than the POG_DIFFICULTY level.  So just thinking about this, how is a shark going to come up with that over a small player? 

And any "edges" we come up with can be programmed in the miner.  Problem solved.

[bible_pay]

you dont need to be shark or whale:
if you bet (tithe) N x BBP and win (payout) M x N BPP, where M>1 then it is logical that you will try to increase N to maximum, and if you hit limit (set by diff or whatever) then you will create multiple wallets

i know nobody who will tithe low if he can earn more by tithe more...

Just so you all know, the internal POG pool allows multiple tithes per day, and lets them all in - in POGv2, so you don't need to make multiple wallets.  You can tithe 150, 250, 300 in one day and be in the pool with a tithe of 700.  The issue is for your tithe to enter the pool you must tithe meeting the diff requirements for that block.  So there is no advantage to making more than one wallet.  We will have a command to let you make a custom tithe if you want - no advantage to try to send it from wallet B.

I feel like there is enough support for POG2 to finish writing the first version for TestNet.  I will be working on this over the next 7 days.

(I don't understand your attack vector above, it appears it is not an attack).

[bible_pay]

Like I said, I have a huge heart for PODC and love the mission, but I still have a strong feeling that we've gone away from our core mission - and will end up primarily supporting new users and science with valuable time that could potentially be used for witnessing/gospel mission/spreading Jesus.  And of course, organic growth. 

Anyway, moving on to your concern about 5 year olds, I strongly disagree that POG2 is as hard as PODC.  Its an utter fallacy.  I wrote out just some of the acronyms off the top of my head a few pages back (for PODC) and its simply the truth that a new user would not only need to delve into crypto, mining, but also into all these other things that they might not really care about.

But let me get to my point, the main advantage to POG is that every single element related to block solving/mining/rewards is within the wallet in a hard and signed way - meaning that new users get a copy of the wallet, they receive 500 bbp from the faucet (or whatever), they tithe, the rewards are given within the integrated pool, and there are no third party pieces of infrastructure (no passwords, no accounts, no contracts, no magnitude, no third party helper sites, no need for support) etc, and this means a tight money supply - all emitted coins are signed and therefore there can not be any leakage or mistakes made (with pools or anything).  This would satisfy Satoshi and some of the bigger investors that might be making a pause to trust that we dont leak any coins anywhere.

Finally, as far as explaining it, its really a piece of cake.  If you experimented with our wallet for one night with POG you would be mining.

Its as simple as:


1.  Download wallet.
2.  Collect faucet reward.
3.  Enter two settings in config file (genproclimit=1 and tithe=10) <- NOTE: We will definitely automate these things once we know how testing is working in testnet
4.  Start the miner

For the advanced user, they will just type getminininginfo and learn about a few new fields (how tithe_difficulty effects their ability to tithe).

These are basic concepts, and people need to wake up - A 5 year old really could mine biblepay and get the money for the first purchase from Mom .

Except, if Difficulty is at about 32K, then the 500 they get from a faucet will

1) Not be 30 days old for 30 days
2) Never exceed the 12,500 BBP balance they need tithe

In short, the higher the difficulty (which by logic will trend towards the 32K level which is the break even level), the less likely a new user can easily participate.  This would likely cause confusion on why the PoG was not working for them, and for a neophyte computer user, would likely be enough to frustrate them out of the coin.  Meanwhile, a certain faction of our users would likely create 1000 new wallets with 18K BBP in them to get extra rewards (waiting out the time limit as experienced users and selecting enough to perpetually fund the system while it was profitable to do).

I was thinking exactly the same thing.
There will be some big players around that will do everything to keep most of the profits to them.

Although I can't guarantee it will always be like this, in the case of the whales tithing high and driving diff up and spending all their coin-age, they are now out for a day or so (as they spent their coin age).  The diff will come down as the older (n-205 blocks back) higher tithes drop out of the pool window, and as the diff lowers it will give the small sowers a chance to get back in.  And it may be diff might not be so low to let in a 5 bbp tithe, that is a bigger issue we can talk about, but it should cycle low enough for a medium tithe to enter. 

[Cryptoalt1990]

I'm sorry but just by reading the last few posts you wrote, I don't understand how that system is supposedly much easier to understand.

You talked about the terms used by PODC as a way to show how difficult it is to understand, but POG has quite a few of them too as someone previously pointed that out.

diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..

There are way more variables you need to take into account to properly understand and estimate how "profitable" mining Biblepay would be and if you should mine it or mine another coin.

Again, I think you will end up with very confused people asking why their wallet is "stealing" their coins and sending them to the foundation address, why they're giving x amount of coins but just receiving y, people making a mistake and asking if the foundation can refund them, etc.

Also, can we just close the poll/thread in the other forum since it obviously won't be taken into account last the last poll?

[fearfighter]

how long does it take for a new mn to be added to the masternode list?

[slovakia]

how long does it take for a new mn to be added to the masternode list?

1-3 hours aprox for me

[vahtis]

I'm sorry but just by reading the last few posts you wrote, I don't understand how that system is supposedly much easier to understand.

You talked about the terms used by PODC as a way to show how difficult it is to understand, but POG has quite a few of them too as someone previously pointed that out.

diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..

There are way more variables you need to take into account to properly understand and estimate how "profitable" mining Biblepay would be and if you should mine it or mine another coin.

Again, I think you will end up with very confused people asking why their wallet is "stealing" their coins and sending them to the foundation address, why they're giving x amount of coins but just receiving y, people making a mistake and asking if the foundation can refund them, etc.

Also, can we just close the poll/thread in the other forum since it obviously won't be taken into account last the last poll?

I don't know if one should laugh or cry over this.

[shorty34]

I'm sorry but just by reading the last few posts you wrote, I don't understand how that system is supposedly much easier to understand.

You talked about the terms used by PODC as a way to show how difficult it is to understand, but POG has quite a few of them too as someone previously pointed that out.

diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..

There are way more variables you need to take into account to properly understand and estimate how "profitable" mining Biblepay would be and if you should mine it or mine another coin.

Again, I think you will end up with very confused people asking why their wallet is "stealing" their coins and sending them to the foundation address, why they're giving x amount of coins but just receiving y, people making a mistake and asking if the foundation can refund them, etc.

Also, can we just close the poll/thread in the other forum since it obviously won't be taken into account last the last poll?

I don't know if one should laugh or cry over this.

Look on the bright side: we are discussing a possible algorithm change openly with people pointing out potential exploits and challenges. It is like a board meeting with nothing paid to consultants

I am against POG in general since it sounds like a lottery (with somewhat predictable results and a definite profit in the end of the day) which reduces the cost of minting coins. When you tithe 300 BBP and get 4800 BBP (more or less, according to a calculation based on 100k BBP tithe cap and 1.6M BBP emission per day), you have no reason to be picky about the market price to sell them. Most people will just dump these easy earnings for BTC. My personal belief and experience is that nothing without effort and pain behind it holds any value. PODC is hard work and pain (if you are not just renting out cloud servers).

We should keep discussing, not until consensus, but until a clear majority of opinion. My biggest worry at the moment is that the progress seems to be too fast. We had a vote in the forum that ended with the rejection of POG. A bit too quickly, POG-2 was put on the table with another poll for it (which is going towards rejection of it again, by the way); and then over a quick public talk between Togo and Rob we now have a masternode proposal being voted. Why the rush? I mean, the bear market is not going anywhere, and we are already close to rock bottom. Even junk coins with no features or future potential have 200kUSD market cap, and we are a bit above that (despite all the pros and provable charity associated with BBP). It's not like we will self-destruct if we continue things as they are, right?

[zthomasz]

Why has the price of BBP rocketed higher today at SouthXchange?

Now at 0.00000019 BTC.

[shorty34]

Why has the price of BBP rocketed higher today at SouthXchange?

Now at 0.00000019 BTC.

Nothing to worry about, I can sell 100k now and we will be back to 8 Satoshi

[macko20]

I think everyone is tired of change. Motivation for investors is:
1. Stake
2. Masternode

The rest is worth nothing, unfortunately.

If anyone has a free 1 million usd, and wants to help charity, he will do it without a bbp coin.
If someone has 1usd free, he will do it differently.
We must attract people with proven solutions. We can not change again and again. Who will trust us

I never sold bbp but maybe it's good time to sell it. I watched and watched. Increasing the number of users is the key to success.

Stability.
Do not compare to the days when the BTC was 15-20k usd