BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[inblue]

The answer to your question above is that the pool.biblepay.org has a feature where any user can request an old instance of a proposal be hidden in the pool only, *if* they re-enter the proposal with the exact same name, within the current 30 day vote window.

Wow. Labeling something as a "feature" doesn't mean it isn't deceitful. So I can ask for money and then if I get voted down, I just put in the same proposal name and do it again. And again. I think it's best if I make one proposal per day until I succeed, because maybe people will eventually get tired and just stop downvoting my proposals, so I can finally vote it up with my masternodes and it will pass! What an amazing feature!

It lets our community vote on the latest instance, if for example the prior instances are going to put us over budget.
...
If we didnt have it, we would be overbudget every single month except last Christmas when we first started this.
...
We always had a budget problem!

You know that going over budget is not possible. The code will just choose the proposal in the absolute yes-descending order until the budget fills up. End of story.

None of the proposals have ever been deleted- and if you wish to use the core wallet to view them you can see all of them.

They weren't deleted just because it's not possible, but you would delete them for sure if it were possible. It's good for all of us except for you that proposals can't be deleted, so that everyone can see that you've hidden a proposal with a personally unwanted outcome and tried to prevail by making yourself another chance. And if you say that the hidden proposals are available to view in the core wallet like that's something normal, then why they aren't available to view on your centralized website?

[MIP]

They weren't deleted just because it's not possible, but you would delete them for sure if it were possible. It's good for all of us except for you that proposals can't be deleted, so that everyone can see that you've hidden a proposal with a personally unwanted outcome and tried to prevail by making yourself another chance. And if you say that the hidden proposals are available to view in the core wallet like that's something normal, then why they aren't available to view on your centralized website?

He has explained that above, please take your time to review it.

Also, we all know that accountability can be improved, and that lack of time is not an excuse not to implement proposals in the most transparent way, but by no means it's acceptable that you take assumptions like "you would delete them for sure if it were possible".

You know it's not possible. Rob knew it would not be possible when he launched the MN with the gobernance system. Why bother launch such an immutable system if the intentions are cunning? Your assumption does not stand.

Please reflect and come back with real problems that can be addressed and real processes that can be improved and we all start working on it right away.

All the rest is empty and fruitless rant.

[inblue]

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html

The GNU Project encourages contributions from anyone who wishes to advance the development of the GNU system, regardless of gender, race, religion, cultural background, and any other demographic characteristics, as well as personal political views.

People are sometimes discouraged from participating in GNU development because of certain patterns of communication that strike them as unfriendly, unwelcoming, rejecting, or harsh. This discouragement particularly affects members of disprivileged demographics, but it is not limited to them. Therefore, we ask all contributors to make a conscious effort, in GNU Project discussions, to communicate in ways that avoid that outcome—to avoid practices that will predictably and unnecessarily risk putting some contributors off.

Great link, thanks. Now take a look at this Rob's quote from Reddit, talking to Togo:

You are a microcosm of this - for the first time I asked about one element of one of your proposals and you wigged out.

Now let's take a look at the post he's referring to:

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=279.0#msg4561

This Rob's post was pretty condescending and disrespectful toward Togo, but Rob doesn't see that of course. But when others talk to him like that, he goes on a crazy spree. And then he doesn't understand why Togo reacted like he did. And of course, that was not just one little post, it was the last straw after some other things. So Rob, I think in order to understand how you hurt other people's feelings, you just need to put yourself in their shoes and wonder how would you feel like if someone wrote you a message like that, saying your hours are worthless and subjectively determine that all your month's work is just 1 hours worth.

[inblue]

They weren't deleted just because it's not possible, but you would delete them for sure if it were possible. It's good for all of us except for you that proposals can't be deleted, so that everyone can see that you've hidden a proposal with a personally unwanted outcome and tried to prevail by making yourself another chance. And if you say that the hidden proposals are available to view in the core wallet like that's something normal, then why they aren't available to view on your centralized website?

He has explained that above, please take your time to review it.

Also, we all know that accountability can be improved, and that lack of time is not an excuse not to implement proposals in the most transparent way, but by no means it's acceptable that you take assumptions like "you would delete them for sure if it were possible".

You know it's not possible. Rob knew it would not be possible when he launched the MN with the gobernance system. Why bother launch such an immutable system if the intentions are cunning? Your assumption does not stand.

Please reflect and come back with real problems that can be addressed and real processes that can be improved and we all start working on it right away.

All the rest is empty and fruitless rant.

I read every word carefully, unlike you which only cling to a part of my post. Please take your time to review my whole post and then reply to it.

Yes, it's acceptable for me to take an informed and rational evidence-based assumption that Rob would delete something, because he is known to delete and censor things constantly.

What do you mean it's not possible? Then why would he hide the proposal? So he does everything in his power which is possible. Why don't you ask him why he thinks going over budget is possible. And you mean a person's intentions can't change over time? So what if he launched an immutable system at the time?

Please reflect and come back with real arguments that can be addressed. And I come to you with a real problem that can be addressed which is Rob's centralized proposal website and his actions of hiding proposals with unwanted outcomes. These things can be addressed for real. Stop acting like I'm talking about something imaginary, I presented blockchain proof.

Your post is empty and fruitless rant.

[MIP]

Your post is empty and a fruitless rant.

I think I didn't do anything to you to deserve that kind of treatment. For sure, you are not going anywhere with me with that attitude, sorry.

Try again.

[inblue]

Your post is empty and a fruitless rant.

I think I didn't do anything to you to deserve that kind of treatment. For sure, you are not going anywhere with me with that attitude, sorry.

Try again.

Haha, what? I just copied that sentence from you, which you wrote to me first!

I take hours to write my posts coherently and then you just write that my post is empty and fruitless rant. I think I didn't do anything to you to deserve that kind of treatment.

For sure, you are not going anywhere with me with that attitude, sorry.

So then, how did you plan to go anywhere with me with that attitude, then? Since I just copied your words. Unbelievable hypocrisy!

Try again.

[MIP]

Your post is empty and a fruitless rant.

I think I didn't do anything to you to deserve that kind of treatment. For sure, you are not going anywhere with me with that attitude, sorry.

Try again.

Haha, what? I just copied your sentence which you first wrote to me!

I take hours to write my posts coherently and then you just write that my post is empty and fruitless rant. I think I didn't do anything to you to deserve that kind of treatment.

Unbelievable hypocrisy!

Ok man, I'm patient enough.

I understand your discomfort and that you are talking from a position of outrage, which is legitimate. You also have your points for saying that the proposal system should be improved for transparency, and sure they have to improve.

But I don't think you are doing the best to defend your position by attacking others.

I don't need to think for hours to beg your pardon for looking hypocritical to you, It was not my intention at all.

[inblue]

But I don't think you are doing the best to defend your position by attacking others.

My position is not defending myself, but attacking dishonesty and deceit. So tell me who to attack then? Who made a new to proposal to hide the old one with unwanted outcome and try to prevail? Who do I direct the complaint to?

I don't need to think for hours to beg your pardon for looking hypocritical to you, It was not my intention at all.

Yes, I know it was not intentional, that's why it was so funny, because when you attack me with your words, you don't see it as disrespectful at all, but when I intentionally use the exact same words on you, then you get all worked-up. Without even noticing those are your words. Think about it for a minute. By the way, my post is filled with copies of your sentences and that made you feel hurt. Using your own medicine, lol.

And since you missed this part (I added it in edit):

For sure, you are not going anywhere with me with that attitude, sorry.

So then, how did you plan to go anywhere with me with that attitude, then? Since I just copied your words.

Try again. (<- again, copied from you, so you can't be mad)

[inblue]

Here's one interesting part of my post, over at the other thread:

One thing Rob probably doesn't realize is that people would treat him much better if he had a face! It's easy for people to be insensitive when they are talking to a faceless forum user, but if he showed his face, he would have much more respect automatically. It's basic psychology.

[thesnat21]

Inblue:  

I completely agree we need to work on transparency,  thankfully a few of us have been in communication with Rob and we are working on a few things that will help.

You know what my stance and issues have been in the past,   all I'm looking to do is prevent this thread from continuing to be a circus

I would ask that you give us a day or two,  to not inflame the situation worse as the details are finalized.


Side note:  I'm working on some tools to help watch masternode/governance.. (as well as other things as time goes on).   We can use this to watch for duplicate proposals and ideally have an alert system built into it for duplicates/re-votes needed.

One thing Rob probably doesn't realize is that people would treat him much better if he had a face! It's easy for people to be insensitive when they are talking to a faceless forum user, but if he showed his face, he would have much more respect automatically. It's basic psychology.

I don't disagree, but frankly I don't want my face out there either at present...   This may change but I don't foresee it.. 

Then again, there are people that don't truly care about personal issues and will troll/rant anyways

[zthomasz]

I don't really know what's the problem if someone has more or less BBP masternodes.

The essence of the problem is that anyone with enough masternodes can do whatever they want with the BiblePay project. They could even change the mission from Christian charitable to non-Christian hateful.

I consider it an unnecessary weakness in the MN model. I believe the solution is to create a more democratic governance system with basic constitutional rights, a system that limits the power of whales and gives small MN owners more vote-power individually and collectively.

btw, behind the scenes Rob and I are having a friendly debate over the merits and elements of a new model. Though we're still in the early stages of the discussion, his comments so far have helped me to clarify what can be done to upgrade BBP governance and improve relationships in our community.

[slovakia]

One thing Rob probably doesn't realize is that people would treat him much better if he had a face! It's easy for people to be insensitive when they are talking to a faceless forum user, but if he showed his face, he would have much more respect automatically. It's basic psychology.

inblue face or this face Santa Claus ROB

[zthomasz]

To hungry kids like these, biblepay is better than Santa Clause.

Let's remember who we are as brothers and children in the Lord.

[thesnat21]

ANNOUNCEMENT:  Important update for the BiblePay Community:

Change is important, change can and will change your life!   Welcome to some new changes.

As Rob posted a few days back,  he is looking for someone to "Take Control" of community and offload some of the workload from him.  
This is a win for decentralization, and makes the core team larger while offloading some of workload from the existing folks.

With this in mind, tmike and I are going to be sharing the burden of this position, and will look for others that can aid us in this process.

* Social media accounts are being split up for ownership, and control will be shared among several core users,  this helps to limit the "single man" liability.
* Jaap now has primary primary control over Reddit, and maintains the Telegram
* I now have access the the main biblepay twitter account, and will help manage the team that can post tweets on our behalf.
* Biblepay Official forums will be transitioned from Rob to a new host, and maintained by tmike and myself.  Once this is completed we will have some guidelines for having better discussions over there, and will allow for some more freedom than this ANN thread, as well as some more focused discussions.


For those that have been around,  you have seen the stuff that has gone on and you know what my stance has been, and should have an idea what it would take for Rob to allow these changes to proceed. We have had some good discussions in private and prayed for Rob and the future of Biblepay. Which helped to facilitate this and shows his willingness to work with us to improve things.  

What we are looking for from the community is a clean start.   I am not taking this lightly,   and you should not either.

New community guidelines going forward:
* Be respectful,  think about the children and the lives we are trying to bless through this project.  Speak as if they are reading each and every reply.
* Post deletions will be limited to topics that have personal or confidential information only.   We're working with Rob on the guidelines for this since currently he is the only one with access to delete messages. (Please, don't make this an issue by posting garbage
* Work with each other on understanding.   We all have different backgrounds, pains, motivations.   Let's seek to unify for the sake of our Lord and those we want to keep blessing.
* tmike and I will work on support, and relaying topics back to the devs as needed.   User support is still encouraged, and welcomed!

If everyone plays along, we can transform this community from a hostile environment to something worthy of representing Christ and the original vision of this project.

[noxpost]

Can anyone tell me when the monthly sell-off for Compassion will be happening? I'm interested in getting a few sancs.

It's normally around the 20th or so. Rob often posts a heads up but this has been a... difficult month. You may have missed the date but bbp is available at great prices anyway!  Welcome (soon)  to the community of sanctuary owners!

[vindiesel8055]

Ive installed 1.6.6 no problems. Running now on linux
Hps same as before but not on block 21550 yet
Poolinfo1,info2,info3 appear empty and only if i change setgenerate true 8 / 16 does it knudge it
Is that necessary to unstuck it?

[thesnat21]

Ive installed 1.6.6 no problems. Running now on linux
Hps same as before but not on block 21550 yet
Poolinfo1,info2,info3 appear empty and only if i change setgenerate true 8 / 16 does it knudge it
Is that necessary to unstuck it?

Is this meant for Biblepay? the most recent version is 1.1.5.9 and we are past block 79,000

[sunk818]

Missed unbanked payment again last night.

I'm going to venture a guess that unbanked payment "fix" did not fix...

Daily superblock is more 25+ hours for 1 week now. Does PoW difficulty play a role in this?

[sunk818]

ANNOUNCEMENT:  Important update for the BiblePay Community:
...
New community guidelines going forward:
...

https://github.com/biblepay/biblepay/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

[nsummy]

Missed unbanked payment again last night.

I'm going to venture a guess that unbanked payment "fix" did not fix...

Daily superblock is more 25+ hours for 1 week now. Does PoW difficulty play a role in this?

The superblock happens ever 205 blocks.  If the 7 minute block time is completely accurate, then that is once ever 1435 minutes and there are 1440 minute in a day.

Looking at the explorer though it doesn't look like the difficulty has changed at all in the last 250 blocks.  Is this normal?!