BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[daemonko]

Don't completely discard PODC,make BBP a multi-algorithm pow currency，everyone can mine bbp using the algo he likes.

just KEEP PODC. it is a good thing. stop the constant torrent of changes. look at HOW MANY messages this thread has -- it is just crazy...

[daemonko]

all POG is idiotism........no TUTORIAL about it  

robis learnt me about it .... very hard for new users......


capulo/SVK_NOKO/daemon..... vsiml1 ste si to?

CENTRALIZED !!!

Even the guide translated to SK is sooo TLTR. I mean, where is this going? Next time we will be solving complex systems of differential equations or what? You wanna mine? So click this button and mine -- that's what everybody expects (or am I missing something?)

[capulo]

Thank you vahtis and cupulo for the information shared. It clarifies a lot of things.
How much bbp the auto-tithe (tithe=1) will tithe?

And what does it means the following numbers:
https://i.ibb.co/ftJhmfH/bbp.png

Does red means bad? I mean, does the red color means that I have not enough age/coins to tithe? Or these numbers are always displayed in red?

Edit:
Now the 2nd line shows all 0.
https://i.ibb.co/7V0fPFL/bbp2.png
Why is everything set to 0 now?

it is always red i think
first screen showing that you have something able to tithe, try manualy and you will see
second one has higher diff and most probably you dont have coins with good coinage and so, try again manualy, it throws you error what is wrong

[afeno]

Thank you vahtis and cupulo for the information shared. It clarifies a lot of things.
How much bbp the auto-tithe (tithe=1) will tithe?

And what does it means the following numbers:


Does red means bad? I mean, does the red color means that I have not enough age/coins to tithe? Or these numbers are always displayed in red?

Edit:
Now the 2nd line shows all 0.

Why is everything set to 0 now?

it is always red i think
first screen showing that you have something able to tithe, try manualy and you will see
second one has higher diff and most probably you dont have coins with good coinage and so, try again manualy, it throws you error what is wrong

Ok. I got it. But as far as I can see in the "Inputs..." I have enough old coins to tithe...
Uffff.. this is so confusing...  I miss Rosetta and PODC...

[afeno]

I am starting to have the feeling that this coin is just for a few techies to mine efficiently. There are so many changes all the time that is impossible to be up to date.  I have two (out of three) colleagues that already gave up with this last change (POG) and decided to move to another coin that is more stable from the mining perspective.
Basically, miners need to read ALL posts (a lot) to be up to date so I don't consider this a very good practice for an easy-to-mine coin.
There is any chance to go back to PODC + POW or this new model (POG) has been already signed off? How the success of POG will be measured?

[turbokongen]

I have a hard time understanding how to debug the tithing.
I have tithe=1 and gen=1 in the config.
I have about 400.000BBP in the wallet mined over a year now.
I run PODC.
But my wallet has only tithed twice over a week.
I keep reading this thread over and over, but find it hard to figure out where to look for solutions.
Does anybody know where to start debug?
If I understand this correctly, I should be able to tithe once a day atleast.

Rgrds

[afeno]

yes Rosetta and WCG is very good....very easy setup .... few steps

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic. It was not easy for me to do the setup but in the end, it worked. With Rosseta and WCG I was having the feeling that I was using CPU for good cause and getting some coins as rewards. Now, I don't have that feeling anymore. I have the impression that POG is a hidden stake mining but I have to admit that I don't understand yet how it works...  But first impressions count when we want to have more followers

[afeno]

will be voting with MN masternodes.... ROB is owner almost 200+ masternodes

Rob is a good Christian and I hope that he will vote whatever is the best for this community. I think that his vote will determine the future of this coin.
I hope that this vote is coming soon before loosing the actual miners.

[afeno]

who want to help with POG, i can help with setuping

More than setuping I would like to understand better how to debug it and for that I need to clarify some doubts that I have.
1) How often can I manually tithe? Once a day? On every block?
2) How can I see in my wallet the amount of coins older than x days? (RPC command)
3) I don't understand (in practice) what is the MinCoinValue
4) In the "Inputs..." (GUI) there is a column "Date". Can I use it to calculate the Age of the coins?

There is a list of RPC commands that are related to POG?

Thanks!

[sunk818]

who want to help with POG, i can help with setuping

More than setuping I would like to understand better how to debug it and for that I need to clarify some doubts that I have.
1) How often can I manually tithe? Once a day? On every block?
2) How can I see in my wallet the amount of coins older than x days? (RPC command)
3) I don't understand (in practice) what is the MinCoinValue
4) In the "Inputs..." (GUI) there is a column "Date". Can I use it to calculate the Age of the coins?

There is a list of RPC commands that are related to POG?

Thanks!

I wrote answers to your questions here:
https://discontinuo.us/biblepay-unofficial-wiki/proof-of-giving/how-to-setup-biblepay-proof-of-giving-pog-using-new-wallet

1) tithe=1 tries to tithe every 4 hours. If you have eligible coins (ok min coin age and ok min coin value) then wallet will tithe - if you set tithe = 2 or more, then wallet will try to tithe every x minutes. So, if you set it for tithe=10, then it will try to tithe every 10 minutes... If you don't mind tithing a lot sometimes, this will get you in the pool more often

2) rpc command for that is exec getdimensionalbalance 0 0
this will show all coin and their age (in days).

3) min coin value is the balance required in your change address. even if you tithe 200 BBP, you need min coin value of say 2500 BBP change address to tithe from.

4) yes, or you can multiple confirmations by 7 minutes.

In the URL I mentioned, I wrote some of the RPC commands for Proof of Giving (PoG), contributions calculations, donations, etc.

[bible_pay]

So with the PoG change, will the new values for max_tithe be 10-1 (descending) and the min_coin_age stay 0-60 and min_coin_amount stay 1-12500?

If so, then to achieve median difficulty would take 5000 tithes a day, but those users would have to have a combined "stake" of 62.5M BBP that was 30 days old, meaning to sustain that level (just median) would take more coins than currently exist (1.875B).  And at that level, tithers would see a return of approximately 16 BBP for each 5 BBP tithe.  Since the level of difficulty would have to be lower, you're looking at a much much higher reward in practice which becomes very troubling as, again, it would be no net cost - no risk and have no psychological floor (whereas someone generating coins that cost them 1 cent per 100 to make, has a reason to not sell for less that 1/100th of a cent).

If the min_coin_age and min_coin_amount decrease, then it diminishes the impact of decreasing the max_tithe.

I make no bones about being a PoDC supporter, but PoG is not a system that brings much benefit when I look at it objectively.   No risk mining means no real price floor.  When coin age exceeds a few weeks, it reduces the ease of entry for new users, but without it, the whales would rule the system.  It has the potential to be very inconsistent with both rewards and how often a user can tithe, both of which make getting new users difficult.  It doesn't sufficiently constrain supply...unlike Proof of Burn which eliminates coins from the economy, or Proof of Stake which typically locks coins in for longer terms for rewards.  PoG adds network traffic that we can sustain for now, but when you compare to our theoretical maximum transaction limit (which I've ballparked before and don't have the numbers in front of me), 5000 additional transactions a day could start to have an impact.  In short, even though I feel PoG would benefit me personally, I don't see it being beneficial for the coin at large.

I ask with all due respect, that when the PoDC vote occurs, one option is to eliminate PoG.  I also request that the community at large be heard and to that end would ask for a commitment from Rob to not vote more than a handful of the Sanctuaries under his control.

1)  No; the new values are 10 max_tithe descending yes, but coin_age starts at .25 a day minimum - 60 ascending, and the min_coin_amount stays the same.  
2) On the median difficulty and 'much higher reward' in practice; no, everyone works with a relative share weight which is related to their applicable coin count from #1, and the tithe cap remains the same and the max reward per day (90k) remains the same, so no this is not true, actually I dont even follow the logic here.  Once coin age is spent, the newbie who waited 7 days to stake that coin has to wait until the coin age matures again to get back in the pool, so there is no additional reward in phase 2 compared to phase 1.  What we do see is more participants in the pool and lower average difficulty for everyone.
3) If the 'no risk-no price floor' were true then a coin like PIVX would be worthless.  Obviously people value each share of their crypto with more facets than electricity as an inputs.  I listed some of them 50 pages back:  future price target, innovation, expectation of dash to have more success, expectation that our devs are good, central bank expectations, many things go into pricing each share other than electricity.  So you might be right about going from 7 satoshi floor to 6, but even that is laughable because Im not holding BBP to appreciate from 7 satoshi to 8 because of electric.  Its laughable.  Were holding biblepay because we know biblepay is deflationary, will provide real world value in the future and we believe in the devs and the technology that is entering the project.  We know that some day Rob and MIP are going to succeed in the killer feature and biblepay will be in the top 100 list.  At the same time the Christians will catch on and out of 1 billion, we see a certain sliver that likes crypto.  Thats the expectation.  Not a measly 10% increase in electric cost over 10 years .
4) If you are concerned about the PODC vote level I recommend you buy enough bbp to have more sanctuary count than me.  Obviously every one who buys a sanctuary has the right to vote with it the way they please.  It would be foolish not to use that right.  On a side note, I still believe in POG and think PODC is too complicated for the average Christian.  In addition I think adding in PODC is not completely aligned with our vision (of having a high percentage of believers who contribute in development to this coin).  

Well, thanks for your responses.  

On point 2) the point I was making is at median difficulty the reward was about 3:1, but currently the supply of coins won't allow for even median difficulty with the change to Pog so the reward realistically will be 5:1 or there abouts.  If PoDC was eliminated...the reward shifted to PoG and the max tithe increased by a similar percentage, then we wouldn't be able to hit any where close to median difficulty and the 3:1 reward would be much much higher.

If you're unwilling to mitigate your strength in voting then let's just vote tomorrow since you hold the majority of traditionally voting nodes and at least remove the uncertainty of what will happen.  You've done a lot of work and deserve a large say in how things go, but with your position of strength in voting, if you plan on voting the nodes you control then there is really no point in any debate.  Just tell us the direction you're taking the coin and do it...saving us the heart ache of actually thinking we may have a real voice in this coin.

On #2, I don't think you realize we have a tithe cap or a reward cap per day in POG.  In Phase 1 we only pay out 90K per day.  Therefore this thing about rewards being "much higher" would not be true.  They are the same in phase 1 and phase 2 (they never breach the covenant of our emission schedule).

On voting:  For one I have the vote scheduled in 20 days or so because POG has not really been rolled out yet.  It needs to enter phase2 for people to see its value first then have something to compare PODC to.  Then we will vote on schedule as block 106000 or so is when people expect the vote to be.  What I am confused about is why you are trying to infer that I hold the key to the vote.  Why do you think I have more than 20% of the sancs?  We have approx 496 nodes right now.  You should be lobbying the other approx 75% sancs that are owned by people other than me. 

Slovakia claimed something like I received special treatment to earn free sancs.. What did I get in payroll, 30 million bbp or so in total?  Maybe that helped me buy 20 of my sancs, but I just as easily could have crashed the price, isnt it more noble to run those sancs than crash the price?  All the other sancs I bought on the free market.  So no, there was no special treatment.

[bible_pay]

Don't completely discard PODC,make BBP a multi-algorithm pow currency，everyone can mine bbp using the algo he likes.

We can't support the code maintenance on PODC and make it easy to use and professional unless its a full use algo.

[afeno]

I wrote answers to your questions here:
https://discontinuo.us/biblepay-unofficial-wiki/proof-of-giving/how-to-setup-biblepay-proof-of-giving-pog-using-new-wallet

Thank you! It helps a lot.
Another questions:
- If I am entitled to tithe based on the current difficulty, How many bbp coints is the auto-tithe (tithe=x) going to send?
- How often can I manually tithe? Can I send two consecutives tithe? If yes, then why there is a max limit?

[bible_pay]

I support Proof of Giving (POG),

Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC) is awesome, but it has its flaws, relying on centralized servers for verification, etc, Swongel pointed this stuff out long ago when the work was first being started: https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?action=profile;u=223 >>> "Recent Posts", I think his best posts were deleted though sadly, but Rob later mentioned Swongel being right about some stuff when he started his work on POG

I think the flipping point for Rob was a while back mentioned he tried to get 5 "regular" people in his life into BiblePay mining, none of them could set it up LOL, I think a lot of you do not realize how smart you guys are at computers compared to regular people, [I had to teach my Mom how to create New Folders on her PC a few years ago LOL]

I dont know how things will end up, the crypto winter has been brutal, but we shall see how it goes!

I'll take the bait and reply to this, since for the most part Togo, you have been a great asset to BiblePay and I want to thank you for all you have done for us.  We were excited about this project together and put our life into it for a year - and we both know that a large attribute of the decline of our price is the HODL crash itself.  

So what Togo is saying is that Swongel made the argument at one point in time, that a mining algorithm that requires an oracle is only as good as the trustworthiness of the oracle.  And even back then privately I agreed with him (so its not really technically that Im flip flopping), its that I held the true belief that we could overcome the trustworthiness of the Oracle, by writing reports that would give PODC credibility.  

Another words, I believed that using a third party (BOINC) to report RAC was a manageable risk, but at the time I believed we could overcome the risk by maintaining a tamper-proof environment (IE a report that alerts us of any 3rd party credit tampering).  But since then, the new information supplied to me was that my friends and family even told me what is stopping them from mining on biblepay is PODC is too complicated.  This alone caused me to research POG (and of course alternative CPU mining algorithms) to replace PODC.  It is true however that (a man must provide as much backing as possible when one is in an endeavor) one of the aspects of PODC that was communicated to me (not by Swongel himself) and I always had it in the back of my mind, is that some larger whales will not invest in coins without a hard consensus (another words, they dont really care if we consider our Oracle to be 100% trustworthy because we have advanced alerts and reports), they simply say, can this blockchain be reconciled 100% by itself without an oracle, if not I'm not touching that coin.  Its been on my mind and it is a concern; as financial systems should be 100% trustworthy; the code is public, the emissions are public, the emission rate, the supply, and where the mining is going is 100% reconcilable in POG.  So I admit I didnt jump on the bandwagon with that last point until we got to where we were when I considered POG for ease-of-use.  If you analyze the top 100 coins, they don't rely on oracles.  The only place for oracles is in betting (IE the oracle is used to settle a smart contract that people already escrowed - in contrast to coinbase rewards).

So technically, we have not achieved the whale blessing test yet; until we :  Open pog up to the full reward schedule, disable PODC, and optionally our dash rebase.  We would then potentially be 'whale approved' (possibly).

[bible_pay]

Update on CryptoBridge,
A while back I mentioned that Stepollo direct messaged me on Discord offering us a free upgrade

Well, when Rob was ready for the exchanges to upgrade,
I notified CryptoBridge, and it turns out Stepollo's offer had no backing,
he didnt have permission yet from the higher ups at CryptoBridge...
they still havent upgraded us nor do I believe they have any plans or intentions to upgrade us without payment...

Thanks at least we tried!

[vahtis]

How long I will get these losses?
Tithes -1 655.10053560 Biblepay
Reward +1 614.55979473 Biblepay

Why this wallet got less rewards than it gave?

Other wallet I control made gains during same timeframe

Tithes -497.70015320 Biblepay
Reward +850.93978577 Biblepay

[bible_pay]

How long I will get these losses?
Tithes -1 655.10053560 Biblepay
Reward +1 614.55979473 Biblepay

Why this wallet got less rewards than it gave?

Other wallet I control made gains during same timeframe

Tithes -497.70015320 Biblepay
Reward +850.93978577 Biblepay

After block 102025 we move into Phase2 of pog, which should (and will) be profitable every day.  Also, the diff will be nice and low and everyone can tithe every day!

Please hang in there, and please be positive.

If you know of any new users, I am offering 5000 bbp.

[vahtis]

Now I have a question for you Rob.

I have timestamp on my wallet about tithe at 2019-2-12 22:59 UTC+2

Same transaction in explorer shows 2019-2-13 15:08
http://explorer.biblepay.org:3001/tx/b27179c2c3bbeef3fbccc0e348954f6d9e00f326e2fabefc1553117449aef8aa

Will I get reward for it in 24h?

[bible_pay]

Now I have a question for you Rob.

I have timestamp on my wallet about tithe at 2019-2-12 22:59 UTC+2

Same transaction in explorer shows 2019-2-13 15:08
http://explorer.biblepay.org:3001/tx/b27179c2c3bbeef3fbccc0e348954f6d9e00f326e2fabefc1553117449aef8aa

Will I get reward for it in 24h?

Hmm, it looks like that tithe would not have been counted, but then otoh, we just passed 51% on this version 1187.
I sent the 253 bbp back to you.

What you can do in the future, is anyone who believes they have a negative ROI after block 102025, you can type:
exec istithelegal txid

If anyone ever observes a tithe legal = false, let me know.  But this should be resolved for the most part now (since we surpassed 51% today) and then completely after block 102025 you should not see illegal tithes again (as they will be rejected by the network).

[bible_pay]

If anyone would like to recruit new users for POG, please send them this link:

5000 bbp reward for POG New Users:

https://www.biblepay.org/proof-of-giving.htm


I'm creating a google-ad campaign now.  If we don't see a couple new users per day starting tomorrow, Ill increase the reward.