Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game

[dooglus]

True, it's very similar to the 2011 gox hack however the main issue is that dooglus made people believe that the balances won't be rollbacked and changed his mind after thinking more about it. It'd be more akin to if Gox reopened with all the trades done, said that they'll take the losses, and then did a rollback.

You're right.  I said there wouldn't be a rollback then changed my mind.

I don't see how it makes sense to let the fake bets stand.  They wouldn't have stood if they had won - I wouldn't have let the withdrawal go through, so why should they stand just because they lost?

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[drawingthesun]

There's certainly the loss of people who have already withdrawn.

This is true.  Those accounts will have a negative balance.  If the missing coins are never repaid, I will cover that loss with my own coins.

So people that divested during the whole time of celeste and nakowa are fine? I divested every time the whale showed up because it freaked me out. My balance is all fine, looks like I was not affected so much and that meant I never received dooglus fake coins in the first place, which makes me feel better.

[thy]

Well good you sorted things out dooglus one way or another. Was the rollback 1180 BTC or 1300 BTC as the celeste accout paid you 120 of the 1300 ?
Anyway, can we have a function to look at a specific accounts whole betting history at this page https://just-dice.com/roll/1.
i guess more people than ever before will be interested to have a closer look at all actions from those 3 acouts betting now after the huge betting they did and all this they caused the site, investors and you dooglus.
Or can you make a weekly zipped CVS file containing all bets made that week or something that people can download somewhere or get from a torrent or so, if each person that wants to get the whole picture of celeste/cici/nakowa s actions will have to manually serch trou all bets for the time period you will get a lot of unnessesary load on your servers dooglus.

[dooglus]

Investors should not be punished here either.  The right solution would be for Dooglas to debit the ill gotten gains from those investors who received them and credit it back to himself  - not make it optional where the honest people are now double punished. 

Can we just do that? It makes the most sense

I don't really understand why the bets which shouldnt have been made weren't just reversed? if there was no extra withdrawal, why was there a shortfall?

I agree Coinbomb, the solution is not for good samaritans to return funds and disadvantage themselves to those who keep them.  Just roll it back, they coins were never going to be able to be withdrawn anyway.  Anyway, it up to Doog at the end of the day.  Lots of respect for him, very few others would be as honorable. One could say Dooglas is provably fair.

I think he should roll it back.  Provided he actually can.  And that he can demonstrate that those bets were stolen and not actual bets. 

1300 BTC were not stolen.  Bets were stolen and those bets put 1300 BTC into the bankroll.  Without Doog's mistake the investors would be down another 1300 BTC.  I think that is fair because that is what should have happened.

I'm ok with an across the board roll back of those bets as well.

I would agree to give all the donations back, including Celeste's.  I would also welcome her back.  She will help fill the debt with her amazing system.  In practice you can't ban Celeste because She can easily create a new ID.

First of all I'm really sorry for what happened Dooglus.

I understand you feel bad that you made a mistake

However the way you solved this is not fair towards you.

If a manager of a company makes a mistake, then that mistake is payed by the company, not with the private capital of the manager.

If investors don't like it, they can leave, ofcourse after the mistake is charged to the company/all investors.  

In this case the investors don't even lose as the costly mistake went straight into their pocket.  

Please treat yourself better.

Losing 1300 btc private capital unjustly can push one into depression, and understandably so!  

Nobody gains here with you being treated unjustly and getting depressed.

You deserve to be treated fairly, by others, and by yourself!

Warm hugs

If the illegitimate bets had been winning bets, would the bettor have been paid?  (allowed to withdraw)  I hope not.  Likewise, because the illegitimate bets were losing bets, the investors should not profit from them.  I say reverse the illegitimate bets, if at all possible.

Just let us know when a final decision has been made on what, if anything, is going to be done to resolve it so we can determine what to do.  How does an investor calculate how much he profited from these illegitimate bets?

Thanks everyone for this.  I really wasn't thinking straight this morning.  I'm sure some will say I've done the wrong thing by rolling the bets back, but I do think it's the right way to handle this.

I will of course pay back the donations I received.  Please PM me with the txid of your donation, and whether it's OK to return the donation to one of the 'sending' addresses of the tx, or whether you want it sent elsewhere.  I guess if "elsewhere" then I should ask for a message signed with one of the sending addresses.  But if you can do that, you could receive at one of those addresses.  Hopefully none of you used a shared wallet...

[dooglus]

Well good you sorted things out dooglus one way or another. Was the rollback 1180 BTC or 1300 BTC as the celeste accout paid you 120 of the 1300 ?

I had already credited the 120 to the celeste account, after debiting the 1300 coins from it (after they had emptied the account; that's the debit I didn't do at the time of withdrawal).  So the balance was -1180.  Now that I've credited the 1300 coins back to celeste (rolling back the 1300 coins lost in fake bets), the balance stands at 120 BTC.

The fake bets amounted to slightly over 1300 BTC, and that's what I rolled back.

[dooglus]

Anyway, can we have a function to look at a specific accounts whole betting history at this page https://just-dice.com/roll/1.
i guess more people that ever before will be interested to have a closer look at all actions from those 3 acouts betting now after the huge betting they did and all this they caused the site, investors and you dooglus.
Or can you make a weekly zipped CVS file containing all bets made that week or something that people can download somewhere or get from a torrent or so, if each person that wants to get the whole picture of celeste/cici/nakowa s actions will have to manually serch trou all bets for the time period you will get a lot of unnessesary load on your servers dooglus.

This is oft-requested.  It's on my todo list.

[BigBitz]

doog....

Who made the decision to perform this roll back?

How does this effect the people, like me, who had faith in you & JD and kept their coins in JD whereas many others divested?

[thy]

Anyway, can we have a function to look at a specific accounts whole betting history at this page https://just-dice.com/roll/1.
i guess more people that ever before will be interested to have a closer look at all actions from those 3 acouts betting now after the huge betting they did and all this they caused the site, investors and you dooglus.
Or can you make a weekly zipped CVS file containing all bets made that week or something that people can download somewhere or get from a torrent or so, if each person that wants to get the whole picture of celeste/cici/nakowa s actions will have to manually serch trou all bets for the time period you will get a lot of unnessesary load on your servers dooglus.

This is oft-requested.  It's on my todo list.

Good, thanks dooglus

[thy]

Well good you sorted things out dooglus one way or another. Was the rollback 1180 BTC or 1300 BTC as the celeste accout paid you 120 of the 1300 ?

I had already credited the 120 to the celeste account, after debiting the 1300 coins from it (after they had emptied the account; that's the debit I didn't do at the time of withdrawal).  So the balance was -1180.  Now that I've credited the 1300 coins back to celeste (rolling back the 1300 coins lost in fake bets), the balance stands at 120 BTC.

The fake bets amounted to slightly over 1300 BTC, and that's what I rolled back.

Well this part is a little strange thou, i can understand that the site wants a big player like this to come back and bet more(however heavy swings that will cause the site thou).
But as long as celeste/cici/nakowa can't prove that it wasen't he/she that made the bets that person still was the one that  betted the 1300 BTC that wasen't his/her's and owe the site and it's investors those 1300 BTC that he/she lost and of witch he/she sofar has paid off 120 of the dept of 1300. When/if celeste/cici/nakowa pays back the rest the bets or the site gets those 1180 BTC back the legal way, then the actions those bets caused should be put back in place again, basically around 190 btc in total to you dooglus and the other around 1110BTC in total back to those that had investments during that time of the betting.

[dooglus]

There's certainly the loss of people who have already withdrawn.

This is true.  Those accounts will have a negative balance.  If the missing coins are never repaid, I will cover that loss with my own coins.

I just looked into this.  12 accounts have negative balances, indicating that they withdrew their profits from the fake bets.  The sum of these 12 account balances is -6.08206405 BTC.  The individual balances:

-0.00048667
-0.00672428
-0.01169665
-0.02610149
-0.02801511
-0.05864094
-0.14724078
-0.26096498
-0.52177427
-0.53065989
-0.97780326
-3.51195573

So only one person benefited by more than 1 BTC from this.

[dooglus]

doog....

Who made the decision to perform this roll back?

How does this effect the people, like me, who had faith in you & JD and kept their coins in JD whereas many others divested?

I made the decision once I realised that no coins had been stolen or lost.  An incorrect entry in the database went from celeste's account to a bunch of investor accounts, and so I corrected the error.

As for the people who divested and withdrew, check my previous post.  Only 12 people divested and withdrew such that I couldn't roll back the bets for their account, and only one of those gained more than 1 BTC by doing so.

[Rannasha]

I think it's a good decision to have rolled back. Though it would've been better had it been done immediately after the issue was first discovered.

[mechs]

I think it's a good decision to have rolled back. Though it would've been better had it been done immediately after the issue was first discovered.

Definitely, Dooglus did the right thing with the roll back, just should have done it sooner - but I think he was exhausted and in shock and just wanted to do "what was right" by investors without really thinking it through.  Noone likes giving up "free" coins, especially when we all got beaten by a whale recently, but "stealing" from the operator of the site is neither ethical or a smart investment in the long-term.

[cowbay]

The way I see it is that the whale got a freeroll, on a line of credit that the house extended erroneously.  If the whale had won 2,000 instead and immediately deposited 1,300 to cover the line of credit, would it be fair to roll that back too?

What if he deposited 650 before he started playing.  Would the winnings and/or losses be cut in half?

Hypothetical situations, yes.  But worth thinking about.

Doog is both an investor and the managing operator, and it requires 100% trust since only he has access to the secret key and the cold wallet.  Root access comes with great responsibility.

I have no doubts whatsoever about Doog's integrity.  For me personally, investment in the BTC world is all about two things.  Trust that the investment will not be stolen, and trust that the operation will be run well. 

For the record, I would have been fine with an immediate rollback.  Someone should take the loss, be it Doog or the investors, and move on.  For the house to win you need action, and antagonizing whales due to indecisiveness only drives action away.  Yes, the whale was an asshole but it was not his fault that he was given a freeroll.  Write off the loss and invite the whale to get action and make up the loss.  I divested mainly because of the way this situation was handled.

I have received both my investment and donation back, and I wish JD and Doog success.  This is one of the most well thought out and transparent sites I have seen.  Maybe I will revisit in the future.

[dooglus]

I have received both my investment and donation back, and I wish JD and Doog success.  This is one of the most well thought out and transparent sites I have seen.  Maybe I will revisit in the future.

Thanks for giving your opinion.  I'm new to all this, and am making plenty of mistakes.  As has been said before, the site has grown too quickly really.  I shouldn't be making these novice mistakes with such large amounts.

Thanks also for voting with your coins.  You didn't like what you saw, and you left, rather than just complaining about it.

Thanks for your support and trust.  You're welcome back any time. 

[freedomno1]

Doog without a doubt you are the best man for the job and I respect your integrity.

I am not casinobit but I am sending you hugs



<3

[Rumpel]

Glad you did the rollback doog. We need you in a good state of mind to grow the site!

No investors lost money, not sure what some posters are thinking... You try losing 130k and see how clearly you are thinking.

[joele]

I reload the site and this message I got

Your IP address has been blocked for an hour for suspicious activity.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

[atrax1978]

I just looked into this.  12 accounts have negative balances, indicating that they withdrew their profits from the fake bets.  The sum of these 12 account balances is -6.08206405 BTC.  The individual balances:

-0.00048667
-0.00672428
-0.01169665
-0.02610149
-0.02801511
-0.05864094
-0.14724078
-0.26096498
-0.52177427
-0.53065989
-0.97780326
-3.51195573

So only one person benefited by more than 1 BTC from this.

I made the decision once I realised that no coins had been stolen or lost.  An incorrect entry in the database went from celeste's account to a bunch of investor accounts, and so I corrected the error.

As for the people who divested and withdrew, check my previous post.  Only 12 people divested and withdrew such that I couldn't roll back the bets for their account, and only one of those gained more than 1 BTC by doing so.

Hi, Doog, I found out what happened in this morning just now, seems I was much luckier when i was a divestor than being a better , I am the "-3.51195573", and have deposited back to JD. And I think your rollback-decision is right, keep the faith to move on.

[TheFuneral]

I have received both my investment and donation back, and I wish JD and Doog success.  This is one of the most well thought out and transparent sites I have seen.  Maybe I will revisit in the future.

Thanks for giving your opinion.  I'm new to all this, and am making plenty of mistakes.  As has been said before, the site has grown too quickly really.  I shouldn't be making these novice mistakes with such large amounts.

Thanks also for voting with your coins.  You didn't like what you saw, and you left, rather than just complaining about it.

Thanks for your support and trust.  You're welcome back any time. 

I haven't seen this addressed yet, but I'm glad it's been recognized now. What changes are we making in the future to prevent this from happening? Or are we fine with the mistake and moving forward?