-

[Bargraphics]

Well if he's counting on buying a significant number of BFL Monarchs then you can count me out. If I had to bet on someone I'd be going CoinTerra all the way, but hey, that's just my opinion.

It's a shame that this new deal seems to be having this effect on the market, but as you say, it should last too long. It's not an easy optimisation problem, judging whether to go big on BitFurt that you know will arrive on time, on spec and which you're at the start of the line for, or to go for CoinTerra which will give the efficiency to mine into the furute, or how to split between the two. Once I have a bit more time on my hands I will try to formulate it as an actual maths problem and solve it for several sets of initial assumptions, but that won't be for a few weeks yet I'm afraid.

I know he does have some BFL Monarchs ordered but only because he had a coupon with them and got a good deal even if they are in february.

Lab_Rat doesn't want to take chances with the BTC he has raised he would rather have guaranteed hashrate that might be considered a little expensive than pre-order something that can be delayed which is why he didn't order many monarchs and is focusing on Bitfury.

[bittymitty]

I think that Labrat bought 3 minirigs from BFL at 22k each after the IPO finished and he said he would look at converting them to Monarchs. However he has not commented since that time if he actually did buy monarchs or not.

I would not be happy for him to invest any more in BFL especially now that any order made would be a Feb or later delivery.

It would be good to have a breakdown of exactly what has been ordered and from whom.  Then we could make an educated guess on the future returns.  

[mmmerlin]

Well if he's counting on buying a significant number of BFL Monarchs then you can count me out. If I had to bet on someone I'd be going CoinTerra all the way, but hey, that's just my opinion.

It's a shame that this new deal seems to be having this effect on the market, but as you say, it should last too long. It's not an easy optimisation problem, judging whether to go big on BitFurt that you know will arrive on time, on spec and which you're at the start of the line for, or to go for CoinTerra which will give the efficiency to mine into the furute, or how to split between the two. Once I have a bit more time on my hands I will try to formulate it as an actual maths problem and solve it for several sets of initial assumptions, but that won't be for a few weeks yet I'm afraid.

I know he does have some BFL Monarchs ordered but only because he had a coupon with them and got a good deal even if they are in february.

Lab_Rat doesn't want to take chances with the BTC he has raised he would rather have guaranteed hashrate that might be considered a little expensive than pre-order something that can be delayed which is why he didn't order many monarchs and is focusing on Bitfury.

That, and because the deal he has the Bitfury is pretty damn sweet IMO!

[mmmerlin]

I think that Labrat bought 3 minirigs from BFL at 22k each after the IPO finished and he said he would look at converting them to Monarchs. However he has not commented since that time if he actually did buy monarchs or not.

I would not be happy for him to invest any more in BFL especially now that any order made would be a Feb or later delivery.

It would be good to have a breakdown of exactly what has been ordered and from whom.  Then we could make an educated guess on the future returns.  

Yeah, $22k for 500GH/s minirigs is looking horrible now. It would be worth converting them to Monarchs no matter when they are delivered, but it would be even better to release the funds for some other purpose tbh.

I don't think we'll be getting a breakdown at the very least until the BitFury deal is finalised/delivered, and even then I don't think we'll get a retrospective one as some of the details about the deals up until that point probable won't be disclosable. However, once that h/w is in hand, I think it would be reasonable to expect a plan outlining how the remaining funds are being allocated... Hopefully we can get word on whether to expect this, and perhaps some milestones we can expect before then.

[||bit]

I like it when the price dips, it gives me a chance to get more cheap shares

Does anyone know if Labrat is buying any Hashfast or Cointerra chips.  I have only heard about Bfl and Bitfury chips so far.

If HashFast can deliver the time they said, they would be the best (at least 28nm) to have ordered.

Otherwise, I think Cointerra would probably be the best in the 28nm. But unless you can get very good institutional prices and/or Cointerra delivers in December, they are quite risky at retail costs.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/137f27091a

BitFury actually delivers sooner (which is super important), and can achieve some near 28nm efficiency from their 55nm chips - $20/GH and approaching 1W/GH, and I think there has been talk of even lower W/GH values if underclocked. However, I'm hoping LR get's some buying leverage from BitFury. He is at least getting some benefit from Dave (the stateside BitFury distributor) doing some mining for LR using his personal hardware. But I'm anticipating that LR is going to get some institutional prices at the quantities he is ordering - he probably should be, as that's normal business.

Hope that LR get's the BitFury hardware in the first couple weeks of October, if not sooner.

[||bit]

I think that Labrat bought 3 minirigs from BFL at 22k each after the IPO finished and he said he would look at converting them to Monarchs. However he has not commented since that time if he actually did buy monarchs or not.

I would not be happy for him to invest any more in BFL especially now that any order made would be a Feb or later delivery.

It would be good to have a breakdown of exactly what has been ordered and from whom.  Then we could make an educated guess on the future returns.  

I would love for LR to get a refund on the Monarch orders and apply that all towards BitFury hardware instead. Would you rather have Monarchs in February or Bitfury in October? Sure, Monarchs are retailing at $8/GH and BitFury at $20/GH... but difficulty is the equalizer here... just consider the 70% increase per month, and more hardware coming out soon. Sitting and waiting for network gridlock might be the best bet. You might be able to buy a 2 TH miner for $2,000 next spring.

[Bargraphics]

I think that Labrat bought 3 minirigs from BFL at 22k each after the IPO finished and he said he would look at converting them to Monarchs. However he has not commented since that time if he actually did buy monarchs or not.

I would not be happy for him to invest any more in BFL especially now that any order made would be a Feb or later delivery.

It would be good to have a breakdown of exactly what has been ordered and from whom.  Then we could make an educated guess on the future returns.  

I would love for LR to get a refund on the Monarch orders and apply that all towards BitFury hardware instead. Would you rather have Monarchs in February or Bitfury in October? Sure, Monarchs are retailing at $8/GH and BitFury at $20/GH... but difficulty is the equalizer here... just consider the 70% increase per month, and more hardware coming out soon. Sitting and waiting for network gridlock might be the best bet. You might be able to buy a 2 TH miner for $2,000 next spring.

I also agree with this but I highly doubt a refund can be gotten from BFL hah.

That being said if KnC Delivers at the end of this month like they said they would, their november units are $5,000 for 500GH (Yes one of their employees recently confirmed they will be 500GH units not 400GH)
If you buy 10 Units you get 1 Free, If you buy 25 Units I think you get into Bulk Pricing as well as the Free Units making them less than $9/GH with delivery in mid November. Hashfast has their second batch at $8.75/each for the very end of November.

We will find out in less than 20 days if KnC can pull it off, Hashfast will have to wait for over another month I believe

[twmz]

Well, until Lab_Rat comes up with something of his own... 

http://labratstats.herokuapp.com/

Note, the pool is calculating this hashrate based on submitted shares, so it is subject to good/bad luck of the miner and therefore fluctuates a bit.

[Bargraphics]

Well, until Lab_Rat comes up with something of his own... 

http://labratstats.herokuapp.com/

Note, the pool is calculating this hashrate based on submitted shares, so it is subject to good/bad luck of the miner and therefore fluctuates a bit.

Thank you!

[Epoch]

I like it when the price dips, it gives me a chance to get more cheap shares

Careful! There will be temporary ups and downs, but the long-term trend of mining bonds in a market where difficulty is skyrocketing has no where to go but down. Why do you think you can buy block eruptors for $19 now? And guess what: you'll be able to buy them for $15 next week.

[bittymitty]

So are you saying that the current rate (~.18)is overvalued? 

I am buying mining bonds on the assumption that I will get at least the same amount back over the next 6-12 months with hopefully some profit at the end.  The only thing that could really screw things up is if the BTC to USD rate crashes and doesn't recover. There are a lot of mining companies about and I have shares in a few to spread the risk.  All the mining companies I invest in have a re-investment scheme to keep the bonds paying out over the long term.  Lets hope Lab_Rat can keep ahead of the curve!

[Epoch]

So are you saying that the current rate (~.18)is overvalued? 

Whether that represents good value depends on many things; one of which is how quickly the hashrate of a share can be brought up to 'reasonable' levels. Do people believe paying $40/GH is a good investment in a climate of skyrocking difficulty? LRM is nowhere near 500MH/share at the moment and it will be quite some time before it gets there.

Even if $40/GH is considered 'good value' today (which I don't believe it is), a month from now it would be worth $20/GH simply because difficulty has increased by a factor of 2 by then.

If a LRM share is worth 0.18BTC today, what do you think it will be worth a month from now when the same hashrate generates only 1/2 the income it does today?

[tom.hashemi]

So are you saying that the current rate (~.18)is overvalued? 

Whether that represents good value depends on many things; one of which is how quickly the hashrate of a share can be brought up to 'reasonable' levels. Do people believe paying $40/GH is a good investment in a climate of skyrocking difficulty? LRM is nowhere near 500MH/share at the moment and it will be quite some time before it gets there.

Even if $40/GH is considered 'good value' today (which I don't believe it is), a month from now it would be worth $20/GH simply because difficulty has increased by a factor of 2 by then.

If a LRM share is worth 0.18BTC today, what do you think it will be worth a month from now when the same hashrate generates only 1/2 the income it does today?

Indeed.

I'm no longer holding LRM shares. Made a nice little profit and that's good enough for me.

[stereotype]

So are you saying that the current rate (~.18)is overvalued? 

I am buying mining bonds on the assumption that I will get at least the same amount back over the next 6-12 months with hopefully some profit at the end.  The only thing that could really screw things up is if the BTC to USD rate crashes and doesn't recover. There are a lot of mining companies about and I have shares in a few to spread the risk.  All the mining companies I invest in have a re-investment scheme to keep the bonds paying out over the long term.  Lets hope Lab_Rat can keep ahead of the curve!

How do you envisage attracting the same amount back when you are currently receiving ~0.6% a week (based on 0.18 share price), compounded by whats about to happen within the mining world (+++magnitudes of increases)?

[a2offrb]

Well, until Lab_Rat comes up with something of his own... 

http://labratstats.herokuapp.com/

Note, the pool is calculating this hashrate based on submitted shares, so it is subject to good/bad luck of the miner and therefore fluctuates a bit.

Nice. Thanx!

[bittymitty]

The thing about mining bonds is that they pay in BTC and not fiat. So if the btc to $ price was to crash we would all lose a lot of $ however if BTC rises then an income in BTC is worth alot of $.  Mining shares are a gamble, nobody knows the btc to $ rate in the future.

 Place your bets now

[LostDutchman]

The thing about mining bonds is that they pay in BTC and not fiat. So if the btc to $ price was to crash we would all lose a lot of $ however if BTC rises then an income in BTC is worth alot of $.  Mining shares are a gamble, nobody knows the btc to $ rate in the future.

 Place your bets now

This is exactly why the service which I am offering does not involve shares, bonds or any kind of securities.

Straight up mining contracts; as long as mining is profitable, we will damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead!



My $.02.

The Lost Dutchman.

[MPOE-PR]

I agree with much of what you are saying, but I was being reticent before and left myself a little open to attack; most of the obligations are pretty clearly defined in the contracts that were signed.

Out of interest though, who are the "known shills" you are referring to?

Feel free to PM if you don't want to call people out in public, though I have a feeling this is not something you're going to be too worried about

Paying attention to what authoritative sources bother to post here for the benefit of everyone else would be a step in the right direction. The first step, really, before encouraging things you're (rightfully) reticent about.

I'm disgustingly happy with my laziness and choose to ignore anything that contradicts my preconceived notions.

FTFY.

[mmmerlin]

I agree with much of what you are saying, but I was being reticent before and left myself a little open to attack; most of the obligations are pretty clearly defined in the contracts that were signed.

Out of interest though, who are the "known shills" you are referring to?

Feel free to PM if you don't want to call people out in public, though I have a feeling this is not something you're going to be too worried about

Paying attention to what authoritative sources bother to post here for the benefit of everyone else would be a step in the right direction. The first step, really, before encouraging things you're (rightfully) reticent about.

I'm disgustingly happy with my laziness and choose to ignore anything that contradicts my preconceived notions.

FTFY.

To be fair, I'm not encouraging anything here, and I was just curious who you thought the shills were. I understand the pros and cons of mining contracts vs holding hardware myself, and am choosing to do a bit of both. Whatever anyone says, there are certain advantages in pooling money to buy hardware together, despite the multiple downside to this, on both a financial and network level.

I had read your previous posts on this thread, and didn't think you were giving much of an argument against LRM itself, especially not in the posts you link to above, but I have enjoyed things you've written in the past and was just looking to educate myself further, as you're often so keen to advise people to do (not that I'm particularly uneducated, I've done my fair share of "lurking moar", but anyone who doesn't think they can continue to learn is foolish).

Still curious who you think the shills are btw...

[mmmerlin]

I agree with much of what you are saying, but I was being reticent before and left myself a little open to attack; most of the obligations are pretty clearly defined in the contracts that were signed.

Out of interest though, who are the "known shills" you are referring to?

Feel free to PM if you don't want to call people out in public, though I have a feeling this is not something you're going to be too worried about

Paying attention to what authoritative sources bother to post here for the benefit of everyone else would be a step in the right direction. The first step, really, before encouraging things you're (rightfully) reticent about.

I'm disgustingly happy with my laziness and choose to ignore anything that contradicts my preconceived notions.

FTFY.

You must be lost, the kitchen isn't in this thread.

a) this is childish sexism and is totally uncalled for, but this is the internet so there is little point in me arguing against it other than to say you are not voicing my opinion, but also

b) you are aware that MPOE-PR is not female despite his avatar, right?