-

[moribana]

Does it go by IP address? If so, can't you use a proxy or something like that?

Probably, That isn't the point I was trying to make. Poster above seems to indicate that you could still buy.  But that isn't the case for US users.  If you want to be clever and use tor or some other vpn anonymizer then yes I guess you can circumvent that way until November when you need to be verified.  ;-)

"As of October 8th, 2013, all current BitFunder users who are located in the United States or are determined to be United States persons or entities will not be able to enter into any new positions on the Bitfunder website, and, as of November 1, 2013, such users will also not be allowed to sell positions on the BitFunder website."

This is what Bitfunder says. So in principle, even if you are not a US resident but you are physically located in the US, you cannot buy. So I guess it goes according to your IP address and this can be easily circumvented. So in fact, there is a 3 week "grace period".

[fractal02]

PicoStock ?

Marshall Islands based.

[sparky999]

Maybe Labrat should start buying back the cheap bonds with LRM funds to be used in a strictly LRM reinvestment account. Like put a buy order in at 0.05 for 20,000 bonds. That might work out great for the rest of the bond holders. That would mean >50% of all hardware mining goes to re-investment and operational costs. Sure, he'd not be able to buy quite as much hardware this month, but he'd still be able to buy a lot and the new fixed potential growth rate would more than double (if he could buy that many back).

Would be interesting to run the math and see if buying up bonds is better than withholding dividends for two weeks.

[maqifrnswa]

PicoStock ?

Marshall Islands based.

bitfunder was Australian. It looks like it's going to be hard to find any public centralized exchange.

[ICantThinkOfaName]

Just a heads up for all you lurkers out there.  You might want to make sure you can sign messages on the BTC address you gave to BitFunder, or change it to one that you can.  I can't think of any other way for Lab Rat to verify ownership of of shares.  I didn't think I'd ever have to verify using it, so I didn't have the private key for mine and had to change it.

[grnbrg]

PicoStock ?

Marshall Islands based.

bitfunder was Australian. It looks like it's going to be hard to find any public centralized exchange.

That's because the US has decided that it doesn't matter if you're not located or incorporated in the US, or are a US citizen.  If you do business with US citizens, you have to follow their rules.  There is a very real chance that BitFunder could have their domain seized, and possibly even their servers if the US government asks the Aussie government nicely.  Sure, if he fights it, he might get his hardware and data back in a couple of years....  I don't blame Ukyo at all.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Havelock, which is Canadian-based and (I think) trying to go the full regulatory route.  A number of the assets traded elsewhere trade there as well, so it is certainly possible that LRM will end up there.  (That's speculation -- I don't know if @Lab_Rat is working on Havelock or not...)


grnbrg.

[pacojones]

It APPEARS that they are only doing IP filtering (for those of you interested and or savvy enough to route through a foreign server).  I've only tried this with one foreign host so I don't know if it'll work the same for everybody...  good luck!  This is just a bump in the road.

[bigasic]

Maybe Labrat should start buying back the cheap bonds with LRM funds to be used in a strictly LRM reinvestment account. Like put a buy order in at 0.05 for 20,000 bonds. That might work out great for the rest of the bond holders. That would mean >50% of all hardware mining goes to re-investment and operational costs. Sure, he'd not be able to buy quite as much hardware this month, but he'd still be able to buy a lot and the new fixed potential growth rate would more than double (if he could buy that many back).

This is probably what I would be doing.. Good grief, to be able to buy back maybe 5k bonds at about 1/2 their value? he could wait til the market recovers and sell them for what they are really worth and in the meantime, doesn't have to pay the dividends on those bonds, since they aren't technically sold (unless LR buys them himself, which would be a conflict of interest, I dont think he owns any bonds, his pay comes from the 25 percent idea) This is where he should spend a lot of the coins that he has, that will help the bond holders the best, imho..

[SimonBelmond]

Could some more people panic-sell their shares for ~0.05BTC like people were doing earlier please? I wasn't quick enough... 

Same here.

I think manual payout should not be such a problem for Lab-Rat. Just take the address list and multiply number of shares per address with dividend per share in a spreadsheet. Then make make a multi-output transaction to all these addresses. Not as easy as on Bitfunder but should work. I now it got mentioned many times before but please please make sure you are in control of the address which you registered with Bitfunder.

[bigasic]

I've been trying to keep an eye on the sellers.. I dont take snap shots of the list, but it looks like the big holders are mostly holding, not selling.. So, it looks like the medium to low holders are the ones panicking.. Maybe one of you that is taking snapshots could give us a better idea on who is selling, not by giving addresses out, but just tell us who is selling, the one that are holding 100 or less or is it the bigger guys.. The real big holders are still at the same number they were a couple days ago, so, it would make sense that the ones panicking are the ones that don't hold a lot and really need their coins...

MMerlin, ideas?

Also, the usa made this law, "crowdfunding" I don't know the details, but it seems that companies like bitfunder would fall under that idea... crowdfunding is for companies that need to raise less than 1 million dollars but cant afford to jump thru all the SEC hoops..

The real question I want answered did bitfunder do this all on their own accord? or where they warned to do this? I have a feeling they just pulled the plug and took advantage of the cheap stocks. If they were warned, they would have given us a warning or we would have seen a nice big "SEIZED" sign at the door..

[moribana]

I've been trying to keep an eye on the sellers.. I dont take snap shots of the list, but it looks like the big holders are mostly holding, not selling.. So, it looks like the medium to low holders are the ones panicking.. Maybe one of you that is taking snapshots could give us a better idea on who is selling, not by giving addresses out, but just tell us who is selling, the one that are holding 100 or less or is it the bigger guys.. The real big holders are still at the same number they were a couple days ago, so, it would make sense that the ones panicking are the ones that don't hold a lot and really need their coins...

The largest holders that sold off completely are about ten people who held between 100 and 1k shares each.

[bigasic]

Thanks for the info, thats pretty much what I figured, the mid owners... from what I can tell, the guys that own more than 1500 shares havent sold, they may have added, but haven't sold.. Damn, why on earth would anyone sell for so cheap? its like giving money away..

[pacojones]

Thanks for the info, thats pretty much what I figured, the mid owners... from what I can tell, the guys that own more than 1500 shares havent sold, they may have added, but haven't sold.. Damn, why on earth would anyone sell for so cheap? its like giving money away..

yes, yes it is - I held a couple of hundred before and just picked up another hundred - it's like a fire sale!  I just hope I don't regret it...  I feel pretty good about the LONG TERM opportunities here...

[Epoch]

Maybe Labrat should start buying back the cheap bonds with LRM funds to be used in a strictly LRM reinvestment account. Like put a buy order in at 0.05 for 20,000 bonds. That might work out great for the rest of the bond holders. That would mean >50% of all hardware mining goes to re-investment and operational costs. Sure, he'd not be able to buy quite as much hardware this month, but he'd still be able to buy a lot and the new fixed potential growth rate would more than double (if he could buy that many back).

Even smarter would be for LR to buy back all the cheap bonds and keep the dividends for himself.

Since LRM doesn't disclose what hardware has been ordered, when it was ordered, or for how much it was ordered for, such an action would be easy to do over time. How would anyone know? How does anyone *know* what percentage of the mining income is going into someone's purse and how much is going into new hardware purchases? This is why transparency is so important. There is so much unnecessary secrecy here and I find it incredulous that so many of the vocal minority are so complacent about this.

As a (potential) investor, I expect to know how my investment money is going to be spent, and that wise business decisions are being made. I'd expect to see that all company monies are being properly accounted for and how much cash/BTC balance there is. All investors should demand this; it is an obvious and reasonable thing. And this is nothing beyond what 'real' private and public companies have already been doing for decades.

Playing with other people's money isn't a game (BitFunder is learning this the hard way). Public companies on the stock exchange publish this information regularly. So do private companies. The main difference being that private companies do not divulge this information publicly, but ensure that their private investors get regular reports and financial statements. There are no good reasons for a company to withhold this information, and many reasons to provide it.

If LRM would just grow up and show some effort into joining this level of professionalism, it may find itself getting a fresh injection of funds from deep-pocketed investors waiting on the sidelines. And by 'investors' I don't mean those with the attitude of the popular Simpson's meme "shut up and take my money"; those already seem to be 'invested'.

[Epoch]

I just hope I don't regret it...  I feel pretty good about the LONG TERM opportunities here...

Paco, you put a smile on  my face. I read your statement above about "feeling good about the long term opportunities", and then I took a look at your Avatar graph. As Inigo Montoya might say, I don't think that graph means what you think it means ...

[pacojones]

I just hope I don't regret it...  I feel pretty good about the LONG TERM opportunities here...

Paco, you put a smile on  my face. I read your statement above about "feeling good about the long term opportunities", and then I took a look at your Avatar graph. As Inigo Montoya might say, I don't think that graph means what you think it means ...

I don't want to derail this thread but that is one of my FAVORITE movies of all times!!!

[maqifrnswa]

I just hope I don't regret it...  I feel pretty good about the LONG TERM opportunities here...

Paco, you put a smile on  my face. I read your statement above about "feeling good about the long term opportunities", and then I took a look at your Avatar graph. As Inigo Montoya might say, I don't think that graph means what you think it means ...

an object in motion remains in motion buy buy buy!

anyways, LRM is just a "toy" investment to me because it lacks the standard structure and level of transparency required by serious investments. Maybe the larger shareholders have seats at the big boy table and know what's going on to justify their investment.

But, hey, bitcoin is the new wild west - if it works, it works - either trust Zach with your money or get out. It's a market, and there are other more transparent securities available as well.

[Epoch]

I just hope I don't regret it...  I feel pretty good about the LONG TERM opportunities here...

Paco, you put a smile on  my face. I read your statement above about "feeling good about the long term opportunities", and then I took a look at your Avatar graph. As Inigo Montoya might say, I don't think that graph means what you think it means ...

I don't want to derail this thread but that is one of my FAVORITE movies of all times!!!

Ditto.

[SimonBelmond]

I am just so curious which of these companies are going to make it let's say 20 years? Just imagine the kind of PR they can make our of it. MtGOX making funny advertisement with people exchanging Magic Cards in the early 2000ends. Or Lab_Rat still in the mining game with substantial amount of global hashrate. This is the reason I invest in any of these IPO's. For any sane investment in that decentralized space I would say there is not much that beats buy and hold Bitcoin. With all the other investments you are carrying risk of Bitcoin plus risk of third party not doing what might have been best for you. And the strategy with buy and hold has been extremely lucrative if you look at the past. I guess many miners will find themselves looking back and seeing that buy and hold would have been much more profitable than mining, especially with some recent investments into products by a three letter company which I would be very very surprised to see in 20 years. Then again, each miner adds value to each bitcoin. Therefore an investment of say 10 coins to mine 9 coins in total which are worth more than 10 had you kept them. Mining is a somewhat idealistic thing. I guess the early miners, the ones that mined when bitcoin had "no value" still have coin. They tend to be idealistic which is why they saw the value. This is why they hopefully, in their own best interest, sponsor/invest and grow the economy and the total value.

Do_It, Lab_Rat! Find the right ratio of btc reinvestment into smart mining gear. If mining can be profitable, one can find the right reinvestments at the right time. you can do it!

[PoUpA]

beside the imdrunkidontuselinebreak. i totally agree with you