[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[twentyseventy]

Everyone here can argue how they want, but if LC starts their early hashing on-time and their 44TH/s hashing even a week late, this stock is undervalued by 40% BEFORE hardware and additional future hashrate.

[Pompobit]

no one is doubting labcoin is profitable if they start hashing as announced.

All the crticisms are about the lack of evidence and technical specifications

[creativex]

It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.

130nm chips?  Is this a typo?  Even Pentium 4 was 90nm and that generated a lot of heat! Wow.

That's a phatt negatory good buddy.

There's a world of difference between an incredibly complex cisc/risc general purpose CPU and relatively simple dumb hashing sha-256 chip. Though they're rather late to the party a 130nm process node is a reasonable choice for LC's first effort. It was going to be 180nm btw, but got changed.

[ShawnP]

I think it's hilarious that since they announced everything is on track the price stopped being stable and started drifting down.
Some shrewd, shrewd traders here.

Without solid proof that you have anything developed, words of future hashes and whatnot
only works for limited time.
Also amount of shares for sale has increased from 630k shares to 790k shares over few last days.

[abuelau]

Well, since everyone here loves their numbers, let me throw some of mine into the mix:

Labcoin's plan is to bring the following hashrate online:

6TH/s in Mid-September
44TH/s additional in Mid/Late-October (total of 50TH/s)

Source:

TLDR; Things are going as planned with no delays as of yet. Labcoin expects to hash at approx 6TH within 3-4 weeks and 50TH+ by mid to late October. Serial production run of chips will start early Sept. Pictures of chips, schematics and miners etc. will be posted as they become available. Website is undergoing redesign and will feature a real-time mining statistic as soon as the mining operation goes live.

So, let's see where these numbers take us! I am using the following assumption: 35% Difficulty Increase per Period. This is a high estimate, as even the most recent DI was ~32% and that was the highest in the past few months.

We can calculate the value of this hashrate by inputting the current daily value of a 1MH/s miner and extrapolating it out to 1TH/s. Then, we multiply that daily mining value times the number of days in that Difficulty period. At 35% increases, each Difficulty period will only be 9.1 days.



So, as you can see here (yes, the chart does go all the way past this to 2/12/16, but I don't feel like stitching two images together this morning), with a Difficulty Increase factor or 35%, 6TH/s brought online in Mid-September (9/13/13) will yield approximately a total of BTC12445.3143, or BTC.00124453 per share. Even THIS is higher than the IPO price!

6TH/s
September 13
=.00124453/SHARE

How about the remaining 44TH/s that Labcoin is going to bring online in Mid-Late October? Nobody's perfect - lets make it November 6th!

44TH/s brought online 11/6/13 would still yield BTC45266.2753, resulting in a per-share yield of BTC.00452663!

44TH/s
November 6
=.00452663/SHARE



The best part - this doesn't even include hardware sales!

So, the expected value of JUST the 50TH/s that Labcoin plans to bring online is .0057721 per share, not including hardware sales, and NOT including the additional 50-150TH/s that their 65nm generation is going to bring!

50TH/s
6TH/s Sep 13 + 44TH/s Nov 6
=.0057721/SHARE



Everyone here can argue how they want, but if LC starts their early hashing on-time and their 44TH/s hashing even a week late, this stock is undervalued by 40% BEFORE hardware and additional future hashrate.

Cheers!

This doesn't seem to be right. 6TH/s would mean 0.75% of total Network hash rate in September considering that a total hash rate of ~800TH/s.

We know that each month there are about 108k BTC mined, so 0.75% * 108k = 810 BTC.

Further, only 80% of PROFITS will be shared amongst shareholders. Profit means revenue - cost. Cost includes electricity, etc. Let's assume that 60% of this 810 BTC will be shared with shareholders, this means 0.6 * 810BTC = 486 BTC.

Now dividing 486 BTC per 10 million shares gives us 0.0000486 BTC per share per month.

This is why we only really start making money when 50TH/s is online.

[creativex]

LC's unwillingness or inability to provide much of anything by way of technical specs or hard evidence that they're close to being ready to hash is taking a toll. That and everyone knows they should've had the boards ready before the chips even arrived. They should be hashing now.

[zumzero]

Is it still going to be a worthy investment if they start hashing one month late?

I looked at the above charts and am a little unsure it would be worth it.

[TMAN]

Ive been riding this train since IPO. its been fun so far, lets hope they just hit us with proof in 4 days.

surely we can wait 4 days

[creativex]

3-4Th in October? Meh. I'd have dumped them.

[abuelau]

The point is that it will be very profitable if we get 50TH/s in October.

5TH/s in September is not very profitable, but helps show that the chips work.

[abuelau]

Is it still going to be a worthy investment if they start hashing one month late?

I looked at the above charts and am a little unsure it would be worth it.

Yes, it will. Because of the type of investment, 1 month doesn't make a big difference, what matters is them getting to 200TH/s or more by Dec/Jan. If they do this, it will be extremely profitable.

[twentyseventy]

You do have to take into account the future hashing value of the 6TH, not just for that month

[creativex]

200Th will likely be about 3% of the network by Dec/Jan. Not insignificant, but not way awesome either.

Anyway if they can't get their chips to hash in September after claiming they have them now then I'm going out on a limb and saying they're not competent enough to get their 65nm chips(which they don't have yet) hashing by December...at least not 200Th worth.

[abuelau]

Well, since everyone here loves their numbers, let me throw some of mine into the mix:

Labcoin's plan is to bring the following hashrate online:

6TH/s in Mid-September
44TH/s additional in Mid/Late-October (total of 50TH/s)

Source:

TLDR; Things are going as planned with no delays as of yet. Labcoin expects to hash at approx 6TH within 3-4 weeks and 50TH+ by mid to late October. Serial production run of chips will start early Sept. Pictures of chips, schematics and miners etc. will be posted as they become available. Website is undergoing redesign and will feature a real-time mining statistic as soon as the mining operation goes live.

So, let's see where these numbers take us! I am using the following assumption: 35% Difficulty Increase per Period. This is a high estimate, as even the most recent DI was ~32% and that was the highest in the past few months.

We can calculate the value of this hashrate by inputting the current daily value of a 1MH/s miner and extrapolating it out to 1TH/s. Then, we multiply that daily mining value times the number of days in that Difficulty period. At 35% increases, each Difficulty period will only be 9.1 days.



So, as you can see here (yes, the chart does go all the way past this to 2/12/16, but I don't feel like stitching two images together this morning), with a Difficulty Increase factor or 35%, 6TH/s brought online in Mid-September (9/13/13) will yield approximately a total of BTC12445.3143, or BTC.00124453 per share. Even THIS is higher than the IPO price!

6TH/s
September 13
=.00124453/SHARE

How about the remaining 44TH/s that Labcoin is going to bring online in Mid-Late October? Nobody's perfect - lets make it November 6th!

44TH/s brought online 11/6/13 would still yield BTC45266.2753, resulting in a per-share yield of BTC.00452663!

44TH/s
November 6
=.00452663/SHARE



The best part - this doesn't even include hardware sales!

So, the expected value of JUST the 50TH/s that Labcoin plans to bring online is .0057721 per share, not including hardware sales, and NOT including the additional 50-150TH/s that their 65nm generation is going to bring!

50TH/s
6TH/s Sep 13 + 44TH/s Nov 6
=.0057721/SHARE



Everyone here can argue how they want, but if LC starts their early hashing on-time and their 44TH/s hashing even a week late, this stock is undervalued by 40% BEFORE hardware and additional future hashrate.

Cheers!

This doesn't seem to be right. 6TH/s would mean 0.75% of total Network hash rate in September considering that a total hash rate of ~800TH/s.

We know that each month there are about 108k BTC mined, so 0.75% * 108k = 810 BTC.

Further, only 80% of PROFITS will be shared amongst shareholders. Profit means revenue - cost. Cost includes electricity, etc. Let's assume that 60% of this 810 BTC will be shared with shareholders, this means 0.6 * 810BTC = 486 BTC.

Now dividing 486 BTC per 10 million shares gives us 0.0000486 BTC per share per month.

This is why we only really start making money when 50TH/s is online.

You do have to take into account the future hashing value of the 6TH, not just for that month

Yeah, this is actually a good point.

Considering that 50TH/s is 10x more than 5TH/s, but between Sep and Oct the network hashrate will only increase by about 2x (tops), you can see why 50TH/s is the thing to aim for. However, I do see that once the first TH/s comes online, the shares price should get a very nice boost.

[Bitcycle]

So in my view the 3-4 TH/s will be good to prove that the chips works.

No it does not matter how much hash they have if they cannot provide proof that they have made the
chips and they are not buying hardware from other suppliers.
Just look into Asicminer thread or Bitfury thread how much proof was provided any you can get better
picture.

LOL.  You're becoming a real clown.

All you can come up with is an Ad hominem attack?

That's all your moronic 'ThEy MIghT BuY CHIppps Guuuyz' deserves.

[demzie]

Well, since everyone here loves their numbers, let me throw some of mine into the mix:

Labcoin's plan is to bring the following hashrate online:

6TH/s in Mid-September
44TH/s additional in Mid/Late-October (total of 50TH/s)

Source:

TLDR; Things are going as planned with no delays as of yet. Labcoin expects to hash at approx 6TH within 3-4 weeks and 50TH+ by mid to late October. Serial production run of chips will start early Sept. Pictures of chips, schematics and miners etc. will be posted as they become available. Website is undergoing redesign and will feature a real-time mining statistic as soon as the mining operation goes live.

So, let's see where these numbers take us! I am using the following assumption: 35% Difficulty Increase per Period. This is a high estimate, as even the most recent DI was ~32% and that was the highest in the past few months.

We can calculate the value of this hashrate by inputting the current daily value of a 1MH/s miner and extrapolating it out to 1TH/s. Then, we multiply that daily mining value times the number of days in that Difficulty period. At 35% increases, each Difficulty period will only be 9.1 days.



So, as you can see here (yes, the chart does go all the way past this to 2/12/16, but I don't feel like stitching two images together this morning), with a Difficulty Increase factor or 35%, 6TH/s brought online in Mid-September (9/13/13) will yield approximately a total of BTC12445.3143, or BTC.00124453 per share. Even THIS is higher than the IPO price!

6TH/s
September 13
=.00124453/SHARE

How about the remaining 44TH/s that Labcoin is going to bring online in Mid-Late October? Nobody's perfect - lets make it November 6th!

44TH/s brought online 11/6/13 would still yield BTC45266.2753, resulting in a per-share yield of BTC.00452663!

44TH/s
November 6
=.00452663/SHARE



The best part - this doesn't even include hardware sales!

So, the expected value of JUST the 50TH/s that Labcoin plans to bring online is .0057721 per share, not including hardware sales, and NOT including the additional 50-150TH/s that their 65nm generation is going to bring!

50TH/s
6TH/s Sep 13 + 44TH/s Nov 6
=.0057721/SHARE



Everyone here can argue how they want, but if LC starts their early hashing on-time and their 44TH/s hashing even a week late, this stock is undervalued by 40% BEFORE hardware and additional future hashrate.

Cheers!

Do one with this update:

As we already stated, chip documentation isn't ready yet for public distribution.
We will start distribution to third parties when hashing power deployed will meet the goals we have set. This is our top priority right now.
We want to mention that we have received interview requests from several well know parties, CNN and Bloomberg being the most prominent  and late progress with our 65nm design lead us to believe we will deploy 200-300 TH within 2013.  

[Bitcycle]

It's pretty clear no amount of proof would please the skeptics here, so I don't see any point in wasting time on it.

If they provided specs, someone would just say they made them up.  So why bother?

If you don't have faith, don't buy.  As I've said before, I'll be selling my shares to you for a nice profit once they have proven themselves to you. Suits me fine.

[Ytterbium]

It was 6Th/s for Sept, but mysteriously morphed into 3-4Th/s. Then there was a plan to roll out 50Th/s by Oct for their 130nm chips, but they've kind of overshadowed that with their recent announcement about how way awesome their 65nm stuff is looking. That's where the 200-300Th/s storyline came from. Actually when you think it through it sounds like some guy making sh1t up as he goes along, but we'll see soon enough.

They initially estimated 4.8Gh/s/chip and 12W, but (as discussed prior) that would difficult to cool, and they're using chips with no heat pads.

Since they said they'd have about 2,000-2,500 chips that works out to a clockrate between 3TH/s/2000 chips = 1.5Gh/chip and 4TH/s/2000 = 2Gh/chip.  At 2.5W/gh that comes out to 3.75W/chip to, which would be much easier to cool.

Their calculations may have been that it was simply cheaper to use a cheaper package (with no heatpad), cheaper heatsink and twice as many chips as it would be to cool a 1cm chip putting out 12W

If you do the math the numbers are completely consistent with the number of chips and the way they're packaged.

[Ytterbium]

... (yes, the chart does go all the way past this to 2/12/16, but I don't feel like stitching two images together this morning),

6TH/s
September 13
=.00124453/SHARE

How about the remaining 44TH/s that Labcoin is going to bring online in Mid-Late October? Nobody's perfect - lets make it November 6th!

44TH/s brought online 11/6/13 would still yield BTC45266.2753, resulting in a per-share yield of BTC.00452663!

44TH/s
November 6
=.00452663/SHARE

Dude, you really don't need to post multiple giant images with estimates for satoshi dust years out given difficulty estimates that would require all earth's electrical generation go to bitcoin mining and it's entire surface covered with data centers.  Especially since you're only talking about the first few months anyway

[BitThink]

Well, since everyone here loves their numbers, let me throw some of mine into the mix:

Labcoin's plan is to bring the following hashrate online:

6TH/s in Mid-September
44TH/s additional in Mid/Late-October (total of 50TH/s)

Source:

TLDR; Things are going as planned with no delays as of yet. Labcoin expects to hash at approx 6TH within 3-4 weeks and 50TH+ by mid to late October. Serial production run of chips will start early Sept. Pictures of chips, schematics and miners etc. will be posted as they become available. Website is undergoing redesign and will feature a real-time mining statistic as soon as the mining operation goes live.

So, let's see where these numbers take us! I am using the following assumption: 35% Difficulty Increase per Period. This is a high estimate, as even the most recent DI was ~32% and that was the highest in the past few months.

We can calculate the value of this hashrate by inputting the current daily value of a 1MH/s miner and extrapolating it out to 1TH/s. Then, we multiply that daily mining value times the number of days in that Difficulty period. At 35% increases, each Difficulty period will only be 9.1 days.



So, as you can see here (yes, the chart does go all the way past this to 2/12/16, but I don't feel like stitching two images together this morning), with a Difficulty Increase factor or 35%, 6TH/s brought online in Mid-September (9/13/13) will yield approximately a total of BTC12445.3143, or BTC.00124453 per share. Even THIS is higher than the IPO price!

6TH/s
September 13
=.00124453/SHARE

How about the remaining 44TH/s that Labcoin is going to bring online in Mid-Late October? Nobody's perfect - lets make it November 6th!

44TH/s brought online 11/6/13 would still yield BTC45266.2753, resulting in a per-share yield of BTC.00452663!

44TH/s
November 6
=.00452663/SHARE



The best part - this doesn't even include hardware sales!

So, the expected value of JUST the 50TH/s that Labcoin plans to bring online is .0057721 per share, not including hardware sales, and NOT including the additional 50-150TH/s that their 65nm generation is going to bring!

50TH/s
6TH/s Sep 13 + 44TH/s Nov 6
=.0057721/SHARE



Everyone here can argue how they want, but if LC starts their early hashing on-time and their 44TH/s hashing even a week late, this stock is undervalued by 40% BEFORE hardware and additional future hashrate.

Cheers!

It seems this calculation is not correct. With 4TH, 0.5% of current network hashing rate. The daily BTC is 3600 * 0.005 = 18. Much less than the value in your table. Could you double check it. A fast computation: assume 25% DI, then the total btc mined is 5 times the amount mined in the first round. So it is 18 * 12 * 5 = 1080BTC.