Official Thread: AMT

[AMT_miners]

I agree, the alternatives for bit coin mining suck : but that doesn't mean they set the bar for the industry in terms of communication to prospective buyers / commited pre-orders.

Details about who I am or how old I am is irrelevant to what we are talking about. A valid question or statement is just that, a valid one.

Comparing your company to APPLE is like, yes, comparing APPLES to ORANGES.  A company the size of APPLE won't dissolve itself over $50,000 to $100,000 of unfulfilled orders (be it defective hardware, poor design, a winter storm, whatever the case may be).  I mean, can you even tell me about the last pre-order ANYTHING APPLE has sold recently? Point me to these terms of service in regards to APPLE's Pre-order devices and I'll gladly read it.

I hope you succeed and deliver, that's all I want. I think it would be great to have an American company producing these rigs as there is an obvious demand for them. The less that goes to China or a scammer in Croatia, the better.

All I am after is clear updates and offering the advice to better serve yourself and your customers. Consumer confidence is important and just because the industry is flawed in all of these different ways (scammers, under performing/oversold equipemnt, overheating, poor design, etc) doesn't mean that is an excuse to say "ABC Mining Company just screwed 500 people out of money, so Hey, take it or leave it!"

How about stepping up to the plate and earning our trust?

Time will tell. Thanks for the response, I will continue checking for updates and hoping for the best for everyone waiting on the new Miners.

We've already gained our client's and the trust from several members of this community. Now all we have to do is deliver a stable scalable machine. Why don't you purchase one. End of March delivery is still available and there will be upgrade options to combat difficulty.

[sirminesalot]

AMT you HAVE to give a customer a refund if they ask on the preorder. Don't worry about what other companies do, most of them are shit. If you don't have the money to refund a few customers who aren't patient, you shouldn't be running this business. There are laws about this, call the FTC and ask them if you can indefinitely keep customer funds for preordered product that you are using to finance your startup business when they ask for refunds...  Don't be another scammer, when a customer wants a refund you give it to them and sell their "spot" to someone else. Anything less makes you suspect. You should not have entered this business without enough financing to secure the product before sales.


Also, people. If you don't get a refund on a product like this, initiate chargeback proceedings with your credit card immediately. If you paid in bitcoin, go to your local courthouse and file a lawsuit in small claims court for the amount you paid. Don't be stupid and wait for someone else to do it for you. Make noise, get noticed, and watch how quickly the company sends you that refund.

How are you going to get a charge back issued if you paid AMT with a bank wire transfer or Bitcoins BTC? You won't and you'll be up a creek.

This alone like it or not, is shady.

Whenever someone on Ebay or Craigslist requests Wire Transfers or Checks in the Mail ONLY right away 99% of the time everyone assumes it's a scam - but in this case we shouldn't. Come on!

[RickJamesBTC]

I said what to do if you paid with something other than a credit card, or did you skip right over that?

AMT you haven't earned any trust, you started things out by being insulting and nasty, deleting your posts, and having to apologize for it. You have a few people who stick up for you because they are afraid if they don't, you will run away with their preorder funds. Instead of asking more people to make preorders, with no chance of refund as you just said, why don't you focus on running a proper business, getting a product shipping, and treating your customers with respect and honesty.

[subseaguru]

I just want to see the credit card payment system fixed. I tried to make several purchases and was told each time by Alyssa that you cant accept my payment due to your processor. (was supposed to be fixed in late December to early January)

[sirminesalot]

I said what to do if you paid with something other than a credit card, or did you skip right over that?

AMT you haven't earned any trust, you started things out by being insulting and nasty, deleting your posts, and having to apologize for it. You have a few people who stick up for you because they are afraid if they don't, you will run away with their preorder funds. Instead of asking more people to make preorders, with no chance of refund as you just said, why don't you focus on running a proper business, getting a product shipping, and treating your customers with respect and honesty.

I read it, but your solution isn't a determinate way to get your money back. Filing a lawsuit takes time and additional money and still you aren't guaranteed of getting anything back. Anyone who has paid with a Wire Transfer is equal to having walked up to AMT and giving them a stack of cash. Good luck involving the system over Bitcoins BTC.

My point is that Credit Cards / Paypal / Escrow - should be a given for these kinds of purchases. Especially since we're talking thousands of dollars and buyers need some kind of protection.

A company should have start up capital to build the preliminary product and go from there. I completely agree with you on that.

[RickJamesBTC]

Yes, people should have paid with credit cards and paypal. However, if they did pay with bitcoin, their recourse is through the courts, not whining on a forum. Nobody ever bothers filing the lawsuit, they just sit around waiting for the magic mining machines to someday appear. Look at all the BFL customers who waited a YEAR for shipment! It doesn't cost much to file in small claims court, you don't need a lawyer, and while it can be difficult, it is not impossible to collect on a judgement.

[loshia]

If you'd like to chance your money with some of the other companies which claim to have a working Terrahash miner, or are based out of Pakistan or Russia, Ukraine or one of those countries please do. I'm sure they will give lots of technical information and specifications of machines that don't really exist and never will.

Unless you prefer eu based company technobit I can assure all of you that I am having eight chip coincraft board in hand hashing like I beast 240-250 gh

[sirminesalot]

Yes, people should have paid with credit cards and paypal. However, if they did pay with bitcoin, their recourse is through the courts, not whining on a forum. Nobody ever bothers filing the lawsuit, they just sit around waiting for the magic mining machines to someday appear. Look at all the BFL customers who waited a YEAR for shipment! It doesn't cost much to file in small claims court, you don't need a lawyer, and while it can be difficult, it is not impossible to collect on a judgement.

Scammers bank on the fact that most people won't fight it : because the ones that don't always outweigh the ones that do.

[machinationus]

Hey Guys,

Quick update, chips arrived today and will go to full surface mount and assembly on Tuesday. Hoping to get the first AMT1.2's shipped by Friday.

More to come...

Could you at least tell us how many chips you got so we can at least figure out how many rigs you can build and ship quickly?

Also,  is another batch of chips coming?

I can tell you that we've received a lot. And enough to make it to your order and than some for sure.

We also have 12 assemblers located at our CM 8am to 4pm. Each of which has experience in building electronic components and devices that pass UL certification and ISO standards. The average build time per build team (2 assemblers each team) was clocked at 2.5 hrs per build. This includes wiring, assembly, modular install, initial testing, and packing.

So if they are working 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, how many miners can we build in 1 day? How many in 1 week? and How many in 1 month?

100 miners should be ready for UPS/FedEX pickup?

[Biomech]

2. The lack of good photos/video of their existing products and upcoming 1.2 TH miners. No offense to Biomech (the guy that was given a Miner for free) - but your videos and pictures were pretty terrible and do not put help put others at ease. We need someone that has a miner from AMT to take some nice high quality photos of the boards, case, and build quality. Pictures of their mining stats would also help put many peoples' worries at ease. We also need feedback from someone who paid ACTUAL money for their Miner, not some guy that was given one for free (because he's broke) - for all we know he could be friends with them, and is obviously biased towards defending them since they gave him a free Miner. Sorry, this just doesn't sit right with me.

No offense taken. They were pretty awful. I'm working on doing a better one. Truth is, the whole thing caught me off guard and with terrible timing. Not their fault, but I got the miner a few days before my child was born, and there have been multiple medical issues to deal with. In the next few days I will make a far better video, with cgminer screenshots as well as the setup of the miner.

For what it's worth, I will say that I am not in cahoots with AMT. I got on well with Jim on the phone and by email, but the closest I've ever been to Philly was Pittsburgh. Which is a place I hope to never set foot in again.

I too am still skeptical of their ability to deliver, and I think they need to savagely overhaul their customer service. I am grateful for the miner, and PERSONALLY very happy with it. It's a solid machine. You can see most of it's history on my eligius page http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Eu1iqrQW2P6fSPLpGXLXiZ4828BnXpRJi. It jumps around 80 GH/s on a second to second basis, but it averages just about 80 over the course of a day. Oddly, turning down the voltage made it hash a bit faster, though the moment to moment jumps and dips are wilder.

I've used it on two pools, BTCguild and Eligius. I was going to try Ghash.io, but I couldn't get it to connect for some reason. Pissed me off so I never went back.

All of the above being said, it's essentially a toy by comparison to the Bitmine.ch based miners that are soon to be in production. The two guys I've interacted with seem to be very tech savvy dudes, so I don't actually have much worries on the production end, other than supplier issues. Giorgio at Bitmine.ch has confirmed as recently as yesterday that AMT are indeed their American business partners. Their CS has not been stellar either. In fact, the only ASIC company I can say has been totally upfront is Bitmain, and they are doing very well because of it. But the Antminer is not really much better than the HEX16B's in my AMT Steadfast 80, and at least so far, Bitmain has not announced or indicated that they are moving to a lower process node. I do believe that AMT is legit. I think they are rank amateurs in the world of business, and they have done some things in this thread that made them look rather bad, such as offering discounts for positive posts, etc.

Giving me the miner may have been a bad move for them as well, though having somebody review a machine is not uncommon. I hope it's helped them, and I will deliver a much more comprehensive report. I am somewhat biased. I wasn't going into it, but I like these guys. They do very much need to resolve their front of the house issues. We all knew the machines were going to be delayed, since we new they were based on the Coincraft A1, which was delayed. They should have announced this the minute they knew. It's a hard thing to do, since you want to be positive in all things about your business, but it would have allayed a lot of suspicion.

Fortunately, the thread has calmed down a lot. This community treated them poorly, and they responded poorly. I have a thick skin, but I do understand how awful it feels to be blasted before you've even had a chance to perform, and I can understand the desire to hide. But business is not a discipline that allows an emotional response from vendors.

Jim, if you're reading this, I highly suggest you invest in a heavy punching bag and a good CS rep

[sirminesalot]

All of the above being said, it's essentially a toy by comparison to the Bitmine.ch based miners that are soon to be in production. The two guys I've interacted with seem to be very tech savvy dudes, so I don't actually have much worries on the production end, other than supplier issues. Giorgio at Bitmine.ch has confirmed as recently as yesterday that AMT are indeed their American business partners. Their CS has not been stellar either. In fact, the only ASIC company I can say has been totally upfront is Bitmain, and they are doing very well because of it. But the Antminer is not really much better than the HEX16B's in my AMT Steadfast 80, and at least so far, Bitmain has not announced or indicated that they are moving to a lower process node. I do believe that AMT is legit. I think they are rank amateurs in the world of business, and they have done some things in this thread that made them look rather bad, such as offering discounts for positive posts, etc.

Giving me the miner may have been a bad move for them as well, though having somebody review a machine is not uncommon. I hope it's helped them, and I will deliver a much more comprehensive report. I am somewhat biased. I wasn't going into it, but I like these guys. They do very much need to resolve their front of the house issues. We all knew the machines were going to be delayed, since we new they were based on the Coincraft A1, which was delayed. They should have announced this the minute they knew. It's a hard thing to do, since you want to be positive in all things about your business, but it would have allayed a lot of suspicion.

Fortunately, the thread has calmed down a lot. This community treated them poorly, and they responded poorly. I have a thick skin, but I do understand how awful it feels to be blasted before you've even had a chance to perform, and I can understand the desire to hide. But business is not a discipline that allows an emotional response from vendors.

Jim, if you're reading this, I highly suggest you invest in a heavy punching bag and a good CS rep

Biomech,

I agree with most of what you've posted and I applaud your effort to document your Miner to your best abilities: especially during the course of having a baby.

I understand the industry and hurdles of getting pre sales, compiling/sourcing bleeding edge technology, and delivering to your investors - all I am asking for is clear updates on the status of things. You are completely right about letting us know about delays, these updates should come directly from AMT first so people aren't left questioning what the deal is. This forum is an ASSET to AMT and other mining operations to let their customers know what is going on before worry sets in.

Like what RickJames said, if you treat your customers with respect - you get respect in return (regardless of bad things happening). We all know that shit happens, JUST LET US KNOW!

I find it more suspicious when you have to find out in a round about way that the chips are delayed from the manufacturer, versus the company that is building your rig and has your money.

All early investors should be treated equal, regardless of their opinions or cynicism. All of our money is the same color after all, and it's unrealistic to expect people that have shelled out thousands of dollars to 'hope for the best' when the receive little to no information about what's going on.

[grumpybearsgirl]

AMT you HAVE to give a customer a refund if they ask on the preorder. Don't worry about what other companies do, most of them are shit. If you don't have the money to refund a few customers who aren't patient, you shouldn't be running this business. There are laws about this, call the FTC and ask them if you can indefinitely keep customer funds for preordered product that you are using to finance your startup business when they ask for refunds...  Don't be another scammer, when a customer wants a refund you give it to them and sell their "spot" to someone else. Anything less makes you suspect. You should not have entered this business without enough financing to secure the product before sales.


Also, people. If you don't get a refund on a product like this, initiate chargeback proceedings with your credit card immediately. If you paid in bitcoin, go to your local courthouse and file a lawsuit in small claims court for the amount you paid. Don't be stupid and wait for someone else to do it for you. Make noise, get noticed, and watch how quickly the company sends you that refund.

Thank you. THIS exactly.

Thanks RickJameBTC and sirminesalot for the posts. Rick, it was a wire transfer so there is no chargeback...that's why it's even more concerning at this point.

I realize we're not the only customer who may want a refund but I feel like we've been polite enough (and I know many others have probably not been so polite) that the least you could do is honor us the refund.

We would like our money back for Order #1196, as I've said many times before and through countless emails and phone calls.

[Puppet]

Unless you prefer eu based company technobit I can assure all of you that I am having eight chip coincraft board in hand hashing like I beast 240-250 gh

And pulling around 3W/GH I believe, albeit overclocked, but without even accounting for the PSU inefficiency.
Based on the same chip, AMT are still claiming 0.5-0.75 W/GH at the wall, and thats up from their previous ludicrous claim of 0.25-0.5W/GH.

To quote AMTs favorite shill:

Yes, I do believe the unit will produce up to 1.2THs, running around 600Watts.

[loshia]

Unless you prefer eu based company technobit I can assure all of you that I am having eight chip coincraft board in hand hashing like I beast 240-250 gh

And pulling around 3W/GH I believe, albeit overclocked, but without even accounting for the PSU inefficiency.
Based on the same chip, AMT are still claiming 0.5-0.75 W/GH at the wall, and thats up from their previous ludicrous claim of 0.25-0.5W/GH.

To quote AMTs favorite shill:

Yes, I do believe the  unit will produce up to 1.2THs, running around 600Watts.

Dirty lie dude it is same chip. If you wanna efficient miner go for bitfury miner or under lock coincraft. If they do something at all it will be a trade of between power and hashing rate.
The math is very simple dude
1. Chip supplier gives you a figure of power at one volt or whatever chip power is
2. The above figure is taken from simulations not real chips and differs with let say 10 % from reality. When chip is Overclocked the difference is quite big
3. Add at least 10% for cd/cd 12v to 1 and on top 15at least psu loss
There is one slight chance for them to meet their figures if they putt wise as much chips as planned and under clock them. It is too late to do the math right know but they will roughly loose 60 chips costing 100 used each to make it happen and so on and on
Again it will be not their fault the chip needs power that is all
And they are aware of the fact they speak nonces unless instead of 220/120 v in your plugs you happen to have ONE VOLT dc 

[sirminesalot]

We would like our money back for Order #1196, as I've said many times before and through countless emails and phone calls.

Grumpysbeargirl: What was their response to you on the phone?

Please share details with us, the more the better.

I'm sure everyone wants to see you get your moneyback and how AMT resolves this situation.

Thanks

[ISAWHIM]

Order #1196 isn't even due for delivery for another week... Asking for a refund before it is even due to be shipped, on a pre-order, is not one of those "situations", few would honor for a refund.

"asking for weeks"... That order is only a few weeks old!

"with our mortgage at risk"... What! That is a poor decision of yourself, if that is your action, buying a pre-order with the HOPE that it will make you money in time to pay a mortgage. You need personal priority adjustment. If you HAD issues with your mortgage, they existed before you made the bad choice to buy a miner. A miner, I might add, that has a break-even (at best), within two months after owning it. If your mortgage is at risk, having gains in the third month wouldn't help much.

But I digress... Don't blame others for your poor decisions, and then attempt to hold them accountable for your poor decisions. They offered us miners, we accepted the terms, and now we are getting our miners.

If you want "off the shelf" equipment, that choice has always been there. Now these will be "on the shelf", and then you can complain how they will not make you rich, and want refunds as bitcoins falls again, or as it rises, so you can get your coins back to trade for more money. That is why all these places NEED irreversible transactions. Because buyers continually try to defraud these places. Again, that was a risk you agreed to, once you hit that SEND or submit button, or made that wire-transfer.

The PR guy is doing a great job. However, he needs to stop replying to obvious trolls, who are demanding answers to stupid questions that don't pertain to him. We don't need you (the troll) speaking for us, we have our own mouths, and have gotten the answers we need. (Even if they are not the answers we want to hear.)

I offered to buy peoples orders directly. No-one took me up on the offer. They had a chance for an instant refund, and passed. So, they must not be too anxious for a refund.

Also, last time I checked, most laws state... "Within 30 days of expected delivery." That is for existing items, where delivery was implicitly stated as a "sure thing". Not for "pre-orders", where it is implicitly accepted that any statement of delivery is an "estimate of expected delivery", thus the term "PRE" before the word "ORDER".

They are not refusing refunds. They are refusing unreasonable requests for refunds, without some kind of valid reason. They have that right, as you have chosen to "give them" money to use, as an "advance", on the creation of an "order" to be "filled in a reasonable time". (Unfortunately, it is not YOU who determines what is "reasonable", it is the LAW. Which, I believe, in most countries, is 30 days beyond expected delivery. That is also in paypal's agreement, and ebay's agreement, and UPS's agreement, and FedEx's agreement, and even your CC's agreement. Which I believe CC's extend to 60 and 90, in some instances, but LAW of consumer-protection rules over most of those aforementioned contracts.)

[swiftshoot]

MBlackout: Sorry bud but I'm not going to become an AMT Fanboy because you simply ask me to. I can assure you there are more people out there that would prefer clear concise updates from AMT along with pictures of what they will be getting and accurate timelines.

AMT_Miners: I am not going to waste your time on the phone so you can update me with details. Want I am after are FACTS from you posted HERE, so everyone that has pre-ordered and has their mortgage payments on the line, can read them as well.

Doesn't that make sense? Update the community here with timely DETAILED posts, so you don't have a few dozen people calling your team so you can answer the same questions over and over?

Not everyone has access to travel to Pennsylvania and visit your office. I'm sure you have money from people all over the country.

You would think that since you:

1. Sell the product via your Website ONLINE
2. Take money ONLINE (wire transfers & bitcoins BTC ONLY)
3. Give updates to the investing community ONLINE
4. Deal in BITCOIN MINING (which is based ONLINE)

You would be able to recognize that all of this information should be ONLINE and accessible by the user base.

It's 2014 and having to call in to talk to someone over the phone about hashing details and power consumption shouldn't be necessary.

All I am asking for is clear concise updates in a timely manner with SUBSTANCE. This means better photos and more details about what to expect in terms of parts/etc. The time spent to update the community will save your team loads of lost time explaining these details to customers over the phone.

I look forward to new detailed photos this week of the first few units assembled (this includes the internal and external parts along with mining screenshots).

Thanks for the response.  

Mr. Piklo,

Let me go ahead and answer your questions as best as possible.

1. Thanks for not calling and speaking to one of our representatives that can further assist you. I apologize but we dont give all of our specific information to random people off the street that we dont know on some forum. For all we know, you could be 12 years old.

2. I'm sorry that you cannot travel to Pennsylvania, we have the intention to expand our operation in the future but for now our humble office outside Philadelphia is the best we can do.

3. The reason there are no updates is because what we do is make a product as fast as possible, and the usual 1-2 year period to bring a product to market doesn't really apply in this situation. We know what works and what doesnt, plans are made in this industry and situations like heat control are no joke. Sometimes things need to be reworked before getting it right because no one has gotten it 100% right thus far and no one gets it right on the first/second or even third try. We also need to meet ISO and UL standards.

If you'd like to chance your money with some of the other companies which claim to have a working Terrahash miner, or are based out of Pakistan or Russia, Ukraine or one of those countries please do. I'm sure they will give lots of technical information and specifications of machines that don't really exist and never will.

I can vouch for AMT on this... They are trying to get their products out as fast as possible.  They know they would like to ship their miners even if their proper boxes are still being built in China.  So be patient and wait for your deadline... After the deadline, it will be shipped to them.  Pre-Orders are no longer in the wait.  Product is being shipped.  It takes time to build your product when other orders are in front of yours.

I had waited patiently and eventually they had shipped my product.  They are no KnCMiner (yet!) with shipping on time but Most Definitely they are not BFL. BFL had me tagged for a long time until I waited over 110 days for my product... did not get anything from BFL and reversed my charges on my CC.  I was NEVER, EVER able to get any answers from BFL.  At least with AMT, they did respond eventually (if you were swarmed with 1000+ emails a day, could you read and respond to all of them in the same day?)

Those who are thinking about refunds... my recommendation is wait patiently or call them weekly for an update... Give them some breathing room so they can build their products.

For AMT: I would recommend adding 3 more people to your staff (Daily rotations of 2 handling phone calls and emails when not on phone and 3rd person strictly with email (no phone).  This way, they can clean up the sales mailboxes and alleviate the A.D.D. for the countless emails available.  Can be minimum wage people handling the emails but it will get cleaned up.

[sirminesalot]

Order #1196 isn't even due for delivery for another week... Asking for a refund before it is even due to be shipped, on a pre-order, is not one of those "situations", few would honor for a refund.

"asking for weeks"... That order is only a few weeks old!

"with our mortgage at risk"... What! That is a poor decision of yourself, if that is your action, buying a pre-order with the HOPE that it will make you money in time to pay a mortgage. You need personal priority adjustment. If you HAD issues with your mortgage, they existed before you made the bad choice to buy a miner. A miner, I might add, that has a break-even (at best), within two months after owning it. If your mortgage is at risk, having gains in the third month wouldn't help much.

But I digress... Don't blame others for your poor decisions, and then attempt to hold them accountable for your poor decisions. They offered us miners, we accepted the terms, and now we are getting our miners.

If you want "off the shelf" equipment, that choice has always been there. Now these will be "on the shelf", and then you can complain how they will not make you rich, and want refunds as bitcoins falls again, or as it rises, so you can get your coins back to trade for more money. That is why all these places NEED irreversible transactions. Because buyers continually try to defraud these places. Again, that was a risk you agreed to, once you hit that SEND or submit button, or made that wire-transfer.

The PR guy is doing a great job. However, he needs to stop replying to obvious trolls, who are demanding answers to stupid questions that don't pertain to him. We don't need you (the troll) speaking for us, we have our own mouths, and have gotten the answers we need. (Even if they are not the answers we want to hear.)

I offered to buy peoples orders directly. No-one took me up on the offer. They had a chance for an instant refund, and passed. So, they must not be too anxious for a refund.

Also, last time I checked, most laws state... "Within 30 days of expected delivery." That is for existing items, where delivery was implicitly stated as a "sure thing". Not for "pre-orders", where it is implicitly accepted that any statement of delivery is an "estimate of expected delivery", thus the term "PRE" before the word "ORDER".

They are not refusing refunds. They are refusing unreasonable requests for refunds, without some kind of valid reason. They have that right, as you have chosen to "give them" money to use, as an "advance", on the creation of an "order" to be "filled in a reasonable time". (Unfortunately, it is not YOU who determines what is "reasonable", it is the LAW. Which, I believe, in most countries, is 30 days beyond expected delivery. That is also in paypal's agreement, and ebay's agreement, and UPS's agreement, and FedEx's agreement, and even your CC's agreement. Which I believe CC's extend to 60 and 90, in some instances, but LAW of consumer-protection rules over most of those aforementioned contracts.)

Do you have anything to show from AMT so far? If so, please share with us.

If you think your optimism is going to make this deal work out for you, that's your problem. Other people want updates and professionalism exhibited from AMT. I doubt most operate on blind hope like yourself, especially with thousands of dollars on the line.

And the mortgage payment remark was simply a reference to the kind of money at stake - although most people's monthly mortgage aren't to the tune of $6,000.

If you think the PR guy is doing a great job then you need a reality check. You obviously know nothing about proper business ethics and how to speak and address issues with customers. If anything, the communication coming from AMT (and lack thereof) on this thread have done more harm than good.

The truth is, you are a shining example on one of those people that think raising questions or complaining to AMT is going to make you lose everything invested with them in the end: and that's sad. I can only hope it all works out for you in the end and you don't lose money. If you want to attack others here with valid questions and concerns and ass kiss AMT - then that's your prerogative. To me, you're just another unwarranted AMT fan boy with loads of speculation and hopeful optimism that you'll get taken care of, or rewarded for your support.

AMT : What constitutes a valid reason for a refund? I'd really like to know, and I'm sure others would to. If you can please post photos of the first rigs off the line for us to look at that would be splendid.

[ISAWHIM]

They don't have to reply here at all. Yet they do.

I fear nothing. I am not kissing any-ones ass. I complained and questioned them, just as everyone-else has. I got my answers, talked to them, and still have to read stupid crap like this in the forum.

What exactly are you looking for? You want a live video-feed from the shop?

They gave us an update. They are coming.

The forum is not where they conduct business. This was a courteous gesture, which was abused, and they rightfully abandoned the crazy troll-thread, initially. Then, they came back, with a PR guy. Who keeps communicating with us. (Then you came and starting trolling the same crap.)

Perhaps you should learn how to be a customer.

1: Buy/Pay
2: Wait
3: Get item

If 3 never happens, then you complain. There is no step between 2-3, where badgering them is a requirement to obtain step 3. Often, it has been my experience that if you do badger anyone, they tend to spit in your burger.

Again, if $6000 was that detrimental to your livelihood, then you should not have spent it on a "Pre-Order", of uncertain fate. It is your own fault if you waited until NOW to get your questions answered. Though, your questions have no real body to them, or they were already answered. Usually, before you buy something, or invest in something, you research it first, and then invest. Don't get mad at them because you didn't do your research and didn't know what you were getting into. (But I doubt that was the case. You seem to be a 100% troll.)

[FrictionlessCoin]

Unless you prefer eu based company technobit I can assure all of you that I am having eight chip coincraft board in hand hashing like I beast 240-250 gh

And pulling around 3W/GH I believe, albeit overclocked, but without even accounting for the PSU inefficiency.
Based on the same chip, AMT are still claiming 0.5-0.75 W/GH at the wall, and thats up from their previous ludicrous claim of 0.25-0.5W/GH.

To quote AMTs favorite shill:

Yes, I do believe the  unit will produce up to 1.2THs, running around 600Watts.

Dirty lie dude it is same chip. If you wanna efficient miner go for bitfury miner or under lock coincraft. If they do something at all it will be a trade of between power and hashing rate.
The math is very simple dude
1. Chip supplier gives you a figure of power at one volt or whatever chip power is
2. The above figure is taken from simulations not real chips and differs with let say 10 % from reality. When chip is Overclocked the difference is quite big
3. Add at least 10% for cd/cd 12v to 1 and on top 15at least psu loss
There is one slight chance for them to meet their figures if they putt wise as much chips as planned and under clock them. It is too late to do the math right know but they will roughly loose 60 chips costing 100 used each to make it happen and so on and on
Again it will be not their fault the chip needs power that is all
And they are aware of the fact they speak nonces unless instead of 220/120 v in your plugs you happen to have ONE VOLT dc 

It is likely the 1.2 THs units will be around 1.1 THs instead of the published.

Cointerra TerraMiner IV was advertised at 2 THs and only delivered like 1.8 THs.   A 10% drop from original estimates.   

This of course depends if the manufacturer fixes the design to add more chips.  Cointerra has much larger chips so it is unable to adjust the design,  however bitmine and AMT have a lot of smaller chips, so if they add 10% more, they can hit their targets.