For those of you that were banned from the Alpha site, here is the complete post from the Doctor.
On credit card processing and a personal note...
« on: July 18, 2014, 09:00:24 PM »
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The card processing feature has temporarily been pulled down.
I was asked to give an update about it as I had been busy with the implementation and communicating with you all since I started working on it, so: sure, i'll get you an update.
Could make a blabla post of course with lots of sunshine, rainbows and unicorns all over the place...
... But transparency is what has been opted for since the start, so I'm going to make somewhat of a personal note along with a semi-official announcement from Alpha regarding the ability to process cards. It will not be a cheerful post.
And be careful... The post is not for the faint of heart and might scream "TL;DR" to some.
But I hope you will read it in full.
Parts of this post contain somewhat of a personal rant about how I vision things, those are obviously not necesarrily the opinions of Alpha Technology.
The problem in this case pretty much is that the cryptocommunity seems to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy, potentially causing the issues they're so afraid and nearly forcing it upon themselves.
On a variety of sites, all scrypt mining corps have been burned down, pretty much every single one of them is being labeled as "a scam", even while all contracts are still perfectly and strictly being adhered to...
Alpha Technologies can tout they are adhereing to contracts because they have changed the contracts so frequently. "We will not ask for the 70% until we deliver a prototype, that didn't happen. We will be open and transparent, they were quiet for weeks and do not provide any further updated on chips and manufacturing.
...(At least, in terms of Alpha. I don't really know how well other miner manufacturers are adhering to their contracts...)
- The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come true. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecyDue to all the doom mongering, the card processors already have highly elevated (and slightly discriminatory imho) extra measures against companies selling mining equipment. (That's also why it took much longer to get a processor up in the first place, *a lot* of documents to show, sign, explain, etc.)
I would like the Doctor to cite from a processor that it is directly a result of doom mongering and that the lack of current capital, previous experience in manufacturing, product delivery and poor customer service, and incoherent business plan at Alpha Technologies did not contribute to the risk. It's easy to point to the community and not admit to and identify other problems at the company. More of Alpha Technology not even claiming even a small ownership of the problems up to now. It's all the community's fault
And after some fiasco's in the industry and the paranoia, on a personal note I can't really say that I blame them.
Those extra, and pretty damn high (pardon the French) if I may say so, hurdles have been overcome by Alpha (which should really mean something...!); but the processors are slightly getting cold feet here now, due to the bizarre community feedback they have apparently acquinted themselves with. (Would have been easier if they had seen that earlier.)
It does force them in a rather annoying position; after all they are the ones that have to handle the crapstorms with people trying to back out of contracts or when it indeed is/was a scam or contracts are not really being adhered to.
Really Alpha Technology overcame the recent hurdles of the industry and the paranoia around it? How so? Please cite what AlphaTech has done to handle the fiascos in the industry? The Doctor is just vomiting text and not even providing a coherent document here.
due to the bizarre community feedback
(Would have been easier if they had seen that earlier.)
What you did not identify the risks to the processor ahead of time? Why not? Did you expect that you could just walk in and walk out of a contract without them doing the due diligence or provide them the due diligence. Of course they are scared. The way you approach a contract is you identify the risks ahead of time to them and show how you are handling them. You don't try to hope you can slip by without them noticing. Again this is terrible as a business practice.
Alpha has received the request to negotiate stop accepting credit card processing as frankly put: the feedback from the community as a whole (so let me carefully note: not from this forum nor Alpha's clients per se, but from the entire cryptocommunity: all sites, newsflashes, etc.) is scaring the living hell out of the card processors...
Yeah not from the Alpha Tech forums because you ban customers and edit your posts so that it look slike everything is pleasant. Maybe now we know the reason what teh Announcements were archived. They didn't want the processor to see the comments on the announcements? It also explains FIaz recently laundering all the external forums of his accounts and posts. Now the picture is clearer. Things like that don't happen on a whim. There was a reason behind the initiative of AT employees to cleanse the forums to get a processor to commit to them.
...They're very much afraid that the crypto community is indeed a self-fulfilling prophecy (frankly put.), where contracts are being made; but then payments are being charged back prematurely by people getting cold feet; which in turn could cause cash-flow issues for the manufacturer, whom will die from that as a result due to not being able to adhere to the contracts with partners (read: pay them) and thusly can't deliver to anyone; including to the people who did not back out of their contract but *did* hold up their end of the deal.
Basically, people getting cold feet while halfway in their contract due to self-proclaimed experts, a lot of which are very agressive, shouting "SCAM!!", ...
I"m sorry it is much more than people calling it a scam that is making people get cold feet. It is the guarantees that were posted on this forum that the units would ship in July as the original worse case scenario. It was then that the processor would be up and running by July 1st. It was Alpha Tech bowing out of the hashrate race.
From most of the alleged customers the biggest reason I"m seeing that they are not fullfilling on their contracts is... that for the price Vipers are not competatively priced for current performance.
Alpah Technology wants you to pay $9319USD for 250MHs (performance wise that is $37.28USD/1MHs) for a unit that is not even available (currently vaporware) that may not be available until August.
Here is a breakdown of units available now. They are shipping and their price performance
GAW WarMachine $1550 for 54MHs (performance $28.70/1MHs)
GAW Falcon $850 for 27MHs (performance $31.48/1MHs)
GAW Blackwidow $450 for 13.5MHs (performance $33.33/1MHs)
What is worse is that there are a of manufacturers that will be shipping in August (same time as AT that can provide MUCH better performance ranging between $36.63USD/1MHs to as low as $9.33USD/1MHs!!!
So it is not the flame fanners that are doing this to you. It is Alpha Technology doing this to itself by being ignorant of the industry and trying to find others to blame.
...would be the cause of the company going to hell. They themselves would cause what they're suddenly afraid of... And fulfill their own prophecy. And then as the company could not deliver due to the problems the fear mongerers caused: everyone goes on to be happy and will self-righteously claim "I told you so!!!", while in reality it should be "we caused it to be so!!!". Which is *the* classic example of a self-fulfilling prophecy. (But will probably claim I'm wrong and make very agressive hateful posts, once more.
)
In Alpha's case, that does not seem to be the scenario though. (Well... Other than getting a lot of hate; the self-fulfilling prophecy won't be hitting Alpha.)
There's some flexible options thanks to the awesome partners, and Alpha has (as far as I know from what I've been able to see) paid for some highly crucial parts out of their own pockets. It could make quite a loss when the final product is ready and not enough people finalize their order as agreed per the terms: but the miners will still be there anyway, and people who did pay in full as per the terms will most certainly receive 'em. (And then orders can be opened up to mitigate the initial losses by filling 'em up with new clients, I guess.)
Spare us the wonderfuless of Alpha technology owners saving themselves from losing money. Should we applaud you for the sacrifice you are making so that you can turn a profit for yourselves. I'd applaud you if you convert yourselves to an non-profit, or if you took a loss so that you can be competitive by increasing hashrates to the current baseline and did not take a profit to do so. That would be a real commitment.
It's all covered and already risk asserted, as far as I know...
So even despite all the hate trolls making it very hard for any mining company to even exist or survive: Alpha is holding it's head above the water.
So as a client... You should probably be glad the hate trolls were not able to completely destroy the market just yet. (And then refuse to blame themselves.)
Anyway, as a result of that self-fulfilling prophecy theory, card processors are not really eager to process cards as they're afraid people will (ab)use cards to do premature chargebacks to try and back out of the contract they signed up for; and they'd have to deal with going back and forth between the card issuers and Alpha. Alpha on one side simply adhering to the contractual obligations and what was signed up for and bringing that in as an valid argument, and on the other side the card issuer acting on behalf of the client who is trying to back out prematurely. (Which, when attempting a chargeback, is breaking the contract; so the card issuer will have trouble filing a legitimate chargeback and lots of communication may ensue... Which costs a lot of time. And as you all know: time is money.)
They're simply not really interested in that.
I can understand their position, accusations are constantly flying all over the interwebs towards pretty much all companies (trying to) getting in to this market; ever since the BFL debacle initiated a paranoia of epic proportions. (Understandably so by the way, I don't blame the community for being very wary, scared and extraordinary careful when it comes to companies making mining equipment; I fully understand. People got screwed over one too many times I guess... But non the less: it looks like the community lost faith in humanity as a whole and some of them are downright unreasonable because of it, heh.)
I mean... What they're seeing and saying is true. No offense intended here, but there really are a large bunch of people (elsewhere, by the way!) that are screaming "scam!!!" while not a single contract has been broken till date. Let me repeat that: not *one*...
For those people shouting "scam!", in other places on the internet than here really, let me remind you (and perhaps you should grab a dictionary if you want to play field-expert):
A "scam" is when someone deliberately is trying to steal your money. It's not a scam when contracts are being adhered to for the full 100%, but the company simply isn't doing something in the speed and/or manner that *you* would love to see... That's not a scam in any possible way. When a company adheres to the contract, it cannot be a scam. That's simply you not being satisfied with the speed (eg: you had hoped for sooner shipment... But then you shouldn't have signed up for the given terms in the first place as you *knew* it could happen and it *could* even be as late as the last day of Q3... Don't sign up if you didn't really want to or didn't want to finish the ride! And for the record: all signs point to it that shipment will not even be close to end of Q3, but *far* sooner than that, but fact remains: Alpha wouldn't breach contract when shipping on the last day of Q3... Keep that in mind.); which is somewhat ironic if you look at it... Whilst I'm sure the irony will not be seen nor appreciated and some people will probably say I'm a clown and get, despite that being rather very hypocritical, very hateful on my and/or Alpha's ass:
Attempting a chargeback while the contract/terms you signed up for are still perfectly being adhered to, means the person filing the chargeback is scamming Alpha at this point, rather than the other way around... (Yeah, I know. That's a bold statement. But it is true. You signed up to an agreement, doing a premature chargeback is illegitimately taking money away from Alpha. *That* is much closer to a scam than Alpha is... Call me an ass if you must, but it doesn't make what I just said less true.
)
More blaming the customer. It's your fault customer for accepting this deal we gave you. It's your fault for for listing to the positive messages we were posting in the beginning. It is your fault for believing in our gurantees. You should have known that we can edit our posts. You should have known we can change our terms when we feel like it. You are the scammers for not accepting the changes we made to the contract so that it looks like Alpha Tech has done no wrong. But we are the company and you the customer don't have any rights to renegotiate terms, you have to accept the changes. Our lawyers said so.
This is the biggest FU to the customers I have seem from AT. At least the previous ones were sugar coated. This is a whole hearted blaming you for chargebacks, guilting you to prevent you from doing more. Only bad customers (scammers) do chargebacks, don't be a bad customer. If Alpha would not deliver the equipment and run away with the money: Yes, that would be an absolute scam. Absolutely. But that by far isn't the case here, not a single contract has been violated by Alpha that I can see; and the miners will become available and will start shipping. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't make your thoughts true.
Even while not getting all the funds: they're still here, doing business and working their ass off for their clients to get their products on the shortest notice possible, whilst Alpha is not getting what they're entitled to... I'm not sure what else a company has to do to show that they're working for their customers.
Wow so a company only has to not be a scam to prove they are working for their customers? A company only has to appeal to the community with a down payment plan to show how reputable they are and then demands the other 70% to show they are working for the customers?
Alpha tech representatives pointed in previously deleted posts the the 30% and refund plan allows customers to walk away if they want and only suffer a small loss rather than all the other bad ASIC manufacturers who demands full payment and no refunds. Now Alpha Tech is saying that you legally walked into the contract with them and you own them the remaining 70%. You can't walk away because now you are more a scammer than Alpha Technology. Good job Doctor, you are really winning your customer base over.
Alpha has from the beginning stated how and what and clearly put down in the contracts what can happen. They warned about it from day one. Yet, some people who apparently took the plunge anyway, or didn't at all but still want to spread hate, are now backing out because they suddenly realized it could take a bit longer than they hoped for... And then, for some inexplicable reason, proceed to call it a scam; while it's certainly not Alpha backing out of the contracts here...
So, who is scamming who? Keep the slander to yourselves. Unleash your fury if Alpha should ever break those contracts, doing it now is just... Silly. Kindly phrased.
Stop dwelling in the past... Or *prove* me wrong. I'm looking at both sides objectively and I can't do anything other than conclude Alpha is currently still strictly on par with their contracts and as such: not a scam.
Yeah stop dwelling in the past, on what we touted to you to get you to buy, but you are to blame if you believed us. We deleted all the past posts and changed our terms so you can't. Give up, only look to what we are posting now and in the future.
Anyway, back to card processing;
So, as a result and as Alpha isn't really looking for such trouble either: it was determined to be best if credit card payments are to be suspended effective immediately, to prevent the risk for a distorted relationship with credit card processors in the future and to prevent having to invest a lot of time in to potential chargebacks as Alpha really has better things to do (like getting your mining equipment ready...); the risk assesment teams of the processors are right: there really is quite the elevated risk when you look at the general consensus in the cryptocommunity in terms of the attitude towards miner manufacturers...
Here on the Alpha forum, the mood is quite cool and a lot of reasonable people are around. (Props!) But on other sites, that's not always the case.
Yes I would like to give Props to Fiaz for his expert weidling of the ban hammer and the efficient deleting and doctoring of posts to make this forum the tranquil place it is. Unfortunately we do not have the same control of external forums, news sites and blog posts so we can't keep customers and opinionated people in line there.
As such, the ability to pay with Credit Card has been pulled. The processors are simply far too scared and do not want to support the pre-order model.
I'm not even sure if Alpha really had a choice there (read: I'm pretty certain it wasn't really a choice.), if they would have said they will continue processing (or attempting as such) despite the concerns, I doubt that would have remained being possible.
I really doubt Alpha was really given an actual choice, but at least it was presented as such by the processor; in a respectful way and without definitive judgements and keeping all options open and actually even guaranteeing the ability to process cards in the future.
It was asked very nicely, for which the processor deserves a lot of kudos!! ... And they gave certainty that CC processing will be available in the future.
!!PLEASE NOTE!!:
As it would certainly be unfair that some people will have been able to pay with their cards (which could give an advantage) but others will not get the same chance, or that other way around: some did pay with their cards, but now see other clients can potentially get more time to pay (which would be equally unfair, really.): everyone who paid with their credit card in the past few days to finalize their order should be receiving a full refund of the amount that was paid in the past few days, and your order status will be reset to Pending.
This equals the score, so to say; we don't want to give some people paying with credit card an extra advantage; not to the ones who paid with their card in the past few days, nor to the ones who didn't pay but wish to do so in the near future. (Bitpay and Bank Transfer are *always* open to everyone, so those people are not affected by this anyhow.)
Did you do this from the kindness of your hearts or is the processor telling you to refund the payments because they will not complete them? Curious minds what to know if you are spinning what the processors said to you.
It has been determined that this would probably be the most reasonable solution, and also a method to show that Alpha is not greedy and solely running around to catch as much as your money as possible, but simply wants to take the most ethical approach whilst waiting for delivery and credit card payment options. (They will get to the greedy part part when the miners are shipping.
It is a business, after all.)
... Now I do understand that this choice may also make some people angry/dissatisified. I guess no matter what Alpha would do in this case would result in a few dissatisfied people, so I guess all I can do is ask for your understanding for the reasoning behind this choice and why it was made.
The ability to process cards will return on the day shipping starts, *maybe* a few days in advance. (Will keep you updated.) But I doubt it will be much sooner than that...
Alpha Technology will not offer other payment options than Bitpay, Bank Transfer and Payza at this time.
And more information is gleaned by reading between the BS spouted by the Doctor. So it is appearant that the Processor did not kick you because of the community outcry and industry risk alone. In fact it looks like they committed to acting as your processor IF, a big IFyou have a real product and not vaporware. Seems you did not honor the terms of their contract that you need a real and tangible product and not do preorders for products not made. NOW WE SEE!!!!
(And yes, Payza is highly limited for credit card processing. ... For a variety of (the same) reasons. Still, you *can* pay with the afformentioned options, so it's not like you don't have a choice.)
How this will affect your ability to pay, how it affects shipping (que) and how it will affect the "two weeks" deadline and whether or not they will force to pay with any of the other available methods or allow you to wait with paying until shortly before shipping: that is something for Alpha to figure out, and they will let all of you know soon how that will be handled. It's not my call, nor can I read their minds.
So, for that aspect: please by all means do not jump to any conclusions, do not get any fear for your order: please wait for Alpha to make a release about what the next step is for those who want(ed) to pay by card. I'm not sure what Alpha is going to do there, and frankly that's not for me to handle.
I'm assuming that will be released along with a planned update on the miners.
Yeah you have dug yourselves a hole. This blame the customer diatribe is to get some message out quickly so customers do not freak out. Good job, really won so many over. Now we have to figure out what to do next because we never planned for this. We thought that running a business like this would be all roses and money raining from the sky.
I wish the cryptocommunity best of luck. Because with some of the attitude I have seen in some places around the net lately... I hope the more level-headed people I have seen will always form a majority, those twho think twice and are able to stay objective in between all the trolls. That way: there certainly is a bright future. But if the hate trolls and paranoia will take over the entire community and it is being ran by fear and hate... Then I fear it will die a slow and painful dead.
And I sincerely hope that will not happen.
So does this mean you give up on the community Doctor? Why such a final tone to that statement. Are you leaving? Did you get a pink slip from AT? What this your mission statement? And one more dig against the community. All the customers who did not ask questions, or had concerns, and did as they were told are considered level-headed, anyone who says, hey why are you deleting posts, why are you banning people, why are you giving us less performance than the current industry, those are all trolls. Don't be a troll, be level headed like a sheep or a cow. They don't ask questions, they do as they are told.
Alpha sincerely apologizes for the potential major inconvenience this may cause to card holders, but if you really want to "rage" about it: don't aim the arrows at Alpha for not processing your card, but at the insane accusations flying around, and potential premature chargebacks being executed, by members of the crypto community as a whole whom are the cause of the, in my opinion rightful, fear that the processors now have for anything even close to being associated with the term "crypto" and the term "pre-order".
Yes blame the community again. Don't blame us for all the bad decisions. We did are part in making everything look good. Its those evil customers that asked questions we could not answer or read between the lines. Blame them.
Last but not least... As I do need a cheerful note in here
I would like to applaude the clients, and there are thankfully many of you like this around here, whom are level-headed and immune to the troublemakers.
Thank you for believing us.. in us I mean. Thank you for not being concerns or asking any questions and accepting all the problems we have been having and the substandard hashing we are going to provide you a month later than our worse case scenario.
The clients who *do* adhere to the contract they signed up for are probably the ones actually making it possible for everyone to eventually get their product. (And note: for the people not being able to pay due to CC being pulled from being available to pay with: I'm not saying you're not holding up your end of the deal!! Let that be very clear!! It's not your fault.)
The clients that *do* adhere? The contract stated I could walk away from it. I didn't have to give the remaining 70% and I give up the original 30%. How am I not adhering to it? Are you accusing me of being a criminal because you can't force me to pay the remaining 70% because I lost confidence in your ability to go forward?
Its you guys who make it possible, and you really deserve a round of applause and a big thank you for that from everyone.
You guys rock, and I take my hat off to you. Stick to what you signed up for, finish the ride together with Alpha. Well done!
Yeah lets all ride this flaming bandwagon to the bitter end no matter what. Screw the morons who jumped off early when they first noticed the fire, they are idiots.
And I very much understand your frustration with the lack of awesome news, and on behalf of Alpha for as far as possible: I'd like to apologize for that.
But... From what I understood: That news will come quicker than you might hope for now. Things are in the works, and should be released to you on short notice.
The miner manufacturing is not affected by this course of events.
If you read my post in full: thank you very much.
Please let me remind you that large chunks of this post are my personal vision and do not necesarrily reflect the opinion, nor is an official statement, of Alpha Technology.
You're of course free to disagree with me and form another opinion. I do hope you will keep it civil if you do not agree.
Not an official statement but from an employee and acting as an employee and not just a regular joe. I'm sure if you forked over hard earned money and you were getting something substandard compared to the rest of the industry products you would be pissed to and demand more, or a refund.
Have a nice day, and no offense or hard feelings to anyone!
Nice.. FU community... but no offense.
Despite my straight from the heart words; I can understand where the paranoia comes from. Just don't let it run your lives...
... And be glad Alpha is resistant against it, despite how hard the scam shouters are making it for them, and the other start-ups, to be successful.
Thank you to *everyone* who has read this, whether you agree or not, and whether you are angry/doubtful with Alpha or not.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Despite me not agreeing: I do respect your opinion, although I don't respect the way some people on other boards express it.
Have a very nice weekend!!!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 09:05:51 PM by TheDoctor »
