Bitcoin Forum
November 07, 2024, 11:57:37 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 [104] 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 ... 253 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!  (Read 529074 times)
vesperwillow
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 03:02:46 PM
 #2061

The fact is, Alpha-T know exactly what the situation is, and aren't telling anyone.

They won't even tell you why there's a delay. No news is bad news, IMHO.

That bold text is what I've brought up before. They can't explain the why, or refuse to, and that should concern everyone. They at least could BS in the past with tapeout reasons, but they know they can't do that anymore without showing their panties.

Phorna
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 03:05:26 PM
 #2062

The fact is, Alpha-T know exactly what the situation is, and aren't telling anyone.

They won't even tell you why there's a delay. No news is bad news, IMHO.

They prefer to lose orders, receive claims for refunds, being called scammers than state the truth. Yeah....so what could it be?  Roll Eyes
GreenDefender
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 271
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
 #2063

''
Ask Us Anything! / Re: Final Payment Date?
« on: Today at 04:32:40 PM »
Quote from: 4imble on Today at 02:53:07 PM

    When is the current date for final payment?

    I have had problems with payza and so waited for CC processing, but that was not working either.
    I am also in the same boat as others and worrying about the lack of an update and would prefer to hold off until then.

    So again, i was wondering when is the latest i can make my final payment?


Technically the due date was 2 weeks after we asked for final payment however rest assured we will give you sufficient time to pay.''

Fiat reply today
r-man
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 17
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 10:59:22 PM
 #2064

Alpha will not refund anything - see this:

Me:
Hello Alpha,
>
> I’ve cancelled my order and want my money back. Here are the rules
> you put on the web, It’s also screenshoted on many forums:
>
here is screenshot of https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ where is not any word about 5 month and after that nothing is refunded
> Cancellation & Refund Policy
>
> You may cancel your order at any time before shipment. Once the
> equipment has been shipped, it is no longer to possible to cancel your
> order and/or request a refund. Should you encounter a problem with
> your product, please see the warranty section for more information
> regarding warranty on our products.
>
> Should you cancel your order, you agree that we are allowed to charge
> you with a £70 GBP administrative fee. We will deduct the
> administrative fee from the amount due to be refunded to you in
> accordance with the terms above before we process the refund. We may
> also deduct transaction fees from the to be refunded amount in the
> event that your payment method or credit card issuer does not support
> refunds, thereby forcing us to refund you in another manner.
>
> So I’m expecting 1565,- £ coming to my bank account.
>
> Please note me within one week when I can expect my money , thank you.
> Just one important information – my order number is xxxxx
> Maybe just one more:
> I am not a business customer because i dont have a company
> registration number, I dont have a tax number, I even wasnt asked for
> that kind of information at the moment i placed my order, a placement
> of an order on your website doesnt turn me into a business customer,
> im still an individual.

And their reply:
Hello there,

We are very sorry but as per our cancellation policy it has been longer
than 5 months since you placed your order therefore you are no longer
eligible for a refund. We have been very clear and open with our terms
of order, it was released as a news update, it is easily available on
our website and you are urged to view it on the product page before you
order. Such regulations only apply to consumers and you are a business
customer with us. I can assure you that our legal matters are dealt with
by a leading law firm in the UK. Our terms of order are completely legal
in the UK. It was typed up by solicitors who specialize in this area of
law. They have advised us that all our customers will be legally classed
as businesses for many reasons, one being that the hardware we are
selling can only be used for mining cryptocurrencies which is a business
practice according to HMRC.

Best Regards,

Alpha Technology Team


...So, what now? What can I do? I'm not in UK, but Czech republic. What dou you suggest?
phzi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:13:19 PM
 #2065

...So, what now? What can I do? I'm not in UK, but Czech republic. What dou you suggest?
To that e-mail, I would reply with citation of other items they have stated but not followed thru on in their 'news releases', including project completion by the 15th, weekly updates, etc.  If they are going to consider their news items contractual terms, then what about the other terms they are violating?

Also, make clear you are a consumer, have no business license, and have not at anytime acting as a business.  That's a fradulent claim on Alpha-t's part, but if you don't disgaree you're accepting their terms.

Their "hardware" can be used for personal experimenation too, no?  What if you are a hobby developer that wanted a scrypt miner for other purposes then mining Litecoin?  Sounds like consumer activity to me

(Just my opinion, of course.  Certainly not legal advice.)
Scrappy Do
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:32:19 PM
 #2066

...So, what now? What can I do? I'm not in UK, but Czech republic. What dou you suggest?
To that e-mail, I would reply with citation of other items they have stated but not followed thru on in their 'news releases', including project completion by the 15th, weekly updates, etc.  If they are going to consider their news items contractual terms, then what about the other terms they are violating?

Also, make clear you are a consumer, have no business license, and have not at anytime acting as a business.  That's a fradulent claim on Alpha-t's part, but if you don't disgaree you're accepting their terms.

Their "hardware" can be used for personal experimenation too, no?  What if you are a hobby developer that wanted a scrypt miner for other purposes then mining Litecoin?  Sounds like consumer activity to me

(Just my opinion, of course.  Certainly not legal advice.)

 Folks.. There has been some great advice, and I for one appreciate it. But it takes more than advice. We need someone who is well versed and trained in the uk laws that can get with whatever agency's to correct this. I for one would more than willingly give or donate to any charity or person money equivalent to 20% of the money spent to whoever could achieve this. I have almost $6.5k invested.

 Scrap'
anderl
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:42:16 PM
Last edit: July 21, 2014, 11:56:03 PM by anderl
 #2067

Alpha will not refund anything - see this:

Me:
Hello Alpha,
>
> I’ve cancelled my order and want my money back. Here are the rules
> you put on the web, It’s also screenshoted on many forums:
>
here is screenshot of https://alpha-t.net/terms-order/ where is not any word about 5 month and after that nothing is refunded
> Cancellation & Refund Policy
>
> You may cancel your order at any time before shipment. Once the
> equipment has been shipped, it is no longer to possible to cancel your
> order and/or request a refund. Should you encounter a problem with
> your product, please see the warranty section for more information
> regarding warranty on our products.
>
> Should you cancel your order, you agree that we are allowed to charge
> you with a £70 GBP administrative fee. We will deduct the
> administrative fee from the amount due to be refunded to you in
> accordance with the terms above before we process the refund. We may
> also deduct transaction fees from the to be refunded amount in the
> event that your payment method or credit card issuer does not support
> refunds, thereby forcing us to refund you in another manner.
>
> So I’m expecting 1565,- £ coming to my bank account.
>
> Please note me within one week when I can expect my money , thank you.
> Just one important information – my order number is xxxxx
> Maybe just one more:
> I am not a business customer because i dont have a company
> registration number, I dont have a tax number, I even wasnt asked for
> that kind of information at the moment i placed my order, a placement
> of an order on your website doesnt turn me into a business customer,
> im still an individual.

And their reply:
Hello there,

We are very sorry but as per our cancellation policy it has been longer
than 5 months since you placed your order therefore you are no longer
eligible for a refund. We have been very clear and open with our terms
of order, it was released as a news update, it is easily available on
our website and you are urged to view it on the product page before you
order. Such regulations only apply to consumers and you are a business
customer with us. I can assure you that our legal matters are dealt with
by a leading law firm in the UK.
Our terms of order are completely legal
in the UK. It was typed up by solicitors who specialize in this area of
law. They have advised us that all our customers will be legally classed
as businesses for many reasons, one being that the hardware we are
selling can only be used for mining cryptocurrencies which is a business
practice according to HMRC
.

Best Regards,

Alpha Technology Team


...So, what now? What can I do? I'm not in UK, but Czech republic. What dou you suggest?


Sorry Fiaz but NO WHERE in the HMRC does it say that mining cryptocurrencies is only a business activity.  I think your lawyers screwed you because they were idiots when they advised you so.  Maybe you should have gotten a second opinion from a law firm outside of Moss Side.

BTW thanks for posting the email.  This is the first time I noticed Fiaz was quoting that he was referring to the HMRC guidance.  Even before their recent revision on cryptocurrencies, HMRC identified that all generation of profits from cryptocurrency transactions are taxable as corporate OR personal income tax.  There was not specification that the income generated was specifically corporate tax.  I hope this puts this B#$@#HIT that Fiaz is spouting to rest.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm

Corporation Tax, Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax treatment of Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies
As with any other activity, whether the treatment of income received from, and charges made in connection with, activities involving Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies will be subject to Corporation Tax, Income Tax or Capital Gains Tax depends on the activities and the parties involved.

Whether any profit or gain is chargeable or any loss is allowable will be looked at on a case-by-case basis taking into account the specific facts. Each case will be considered on the basis of its own individual facts and circumstances. The relevant legislation and case law will be applied to determine the correct tax treatment. Therefore, depending on the facts, a transaction may be so highly speculative that it is not taxable or any losses relievable.. For example gambling or betting wins are not taxable and gambling losses cannot be offset against other taxable profits.
For businesses which accept payment for goods or services in Bitcoin there is no change to when revenue is recognised or how taxable profits are calculated.
Corporation Tax: The profits or losses on exchange movements between currencies are taxable. For the tax treatment of virtual currencies, the general rules on foreign exchange and loan relationships apply. We have not at this stage identified any need to consider bespoke rules.

For companies, exchange movements are determined between the company’s functional currency (usually the currency in which the accounts are prepared) and the other currency in question. If there is an exchange rate between Bitcoin and the functional currency then this analysis applies. Therefore no special tax rules for Bitcoin transactions are required. The profits and losses of a company entering into transactions involving Bitcoin would be reflected in accounts and taxable under normal Corporation Tax rules.

Income Tax: The profits and losses of a non-incorporated business on Bitcoin transactions must be reflected in their accounts and will be taxable on normal income tax rules.

Chargeable gains - Corporation Tax and Capital Gains Tax: If a profit or loss on a currency contract is not within trading profits or otherwise within the loan relationship rules, it would normally be taxable as a chargeable gain or allowable as a loss for Corporation Tax or Capital Gains Tax purposes. Gains and losses incurred on Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies are chargeable or allowable for Capital Gains Tax if they accrue to an individual or, for Corporation Tax on chargeable gains if they accrue to a company.
Meanotor
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 64
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
 #2068

Good advice.

We need someone in the UK to talk to a lawyer and no need to donate, we will engage in a no-win no-fee agreement. The lawyer would know if it is legal to engage in such agreement in the UK (in some countries it is not, he must set a fee).

Then I would gladly agree to a 25% fee off the refund to the lawyer.

So easy process:

1. Someone in the UK proposes a lawyer.
1. Someone(s) else does as well
2. The names of the legal firms are presented, we all agree on one after each one of us contacting them confirming existence, name, history, expertise in subject matter etc.
3. The person who nominated the selected company makes contact and comes back with proposal
4. We agree to the proposal and each one contacts the lawyer cc admin@ or contactus@ of the firm giving the details of the order
5. The Lawyer creates a BCC list and communicates action plan

smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492
Merit: 1474


LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper


View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:55:34 PM
 #2069

PLEASE READ!

Greeting Miners! We can now be found on our own official forums here forum.alpha-t.net; this forum will allow members of the Alpha Technology team to interact with the community directly under one roof. Please note as a result of this some things on this forum may now be unreliable/outdated.

Visit our website for up to date information: alpha-t.net/news and to check out our latest miners: alpha-t.net/shop

The Basics:

We are aiming to reduce the power as much as possible so there is every chance it will be significantly lower, in any case this is the maximum we guarantee:

>=250 Mh/s for £5450 at <=1875 Watts
>=50 Mh/s for £1350 at <=375 Watts

Shipping Information: alpha-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Shipping-Costs1.pdf

Batch 1 Loyalty Bonuses:

Here are the benefits we offer for ordering now and being a batch 1 customer:

1. Being able to order first as well as free shipping for batch 2
2. 10% off any future batch of your choice (subsequent batches will be significantly more powerful)

So order now and be a part of batch 1!

Information

Website: alpha-t.net
General Enquiries & Support: info@alpha-t.net
Orders & Payments: payments@alpha-t.net
Twitter: @UKAlpha
Forum: forum.alpha-t.net

Alpha Technology is a technology firm based in the UK, located in Manchester, comprising of a team of experienced IT and engineering specialists. Bringing together our expertise and that of our partners, we work towards providing hardware which is durable, powerful and cost-efficient to the crypto-hardware market.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA BITCOIN GRIM REAPER SILVER COINS.
 
phzi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:13:54 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 12:24:45 AM by phzi
 #2070

Smoothie is definitely right, by the way.  I read thru all the HMRC guidance relating to crypto currencies, and it absolutely does NOT indicate that mining for profit is a business activity.

Besides, last time I checked, an individual can participate in business activities without being a "business."



I'll admit, I'm still holding my breath (ever so slightly) to see what happens over the next 10 days.

If Alpha doesn't at least post something this month, there is going to be a whole new storm of pissed off people.
retro72
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 433
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:23:21 AM
 #2071

Pretty much everything you need to know is in these three posts.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg7931395#msg7931395

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg7290648#msg7290648

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg7293210#msg7293210

What anderl said is correct and has been pointed out before. HMRC do not classify mining as a business activity it can be done as an individual and profits treated as a Capital Gain not income. Their claim is an outright lie and an idiot could tell their T&Cs were "typed up" by a clown

Regarding Lawyers. Why waste your time when you can get every penny back through small claims online for as little as  £70? If you want to try and coordinate a complicated class action across multiple counties over the internet by all means give it a try. But by the time you get to court, Alpha will probably have folded and disappeared with your money. Personally I'd just pay the £70, have a Judge rule on it, and get my money back all from the comfort of my computer desk. But its up to you.
s1gs3gv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014

ex uno plures


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2014, 12:24:17 AM
 #2072



anderl
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:30:34 AM
 #2073

Ok digging into this deeper I found how Alpha Technologies assumed that miners are businesses.  They don't have a legal attorney.  They themselves imposed the ruling and all based on what they think the future regulations minght be because of some interpretation they made from the US IRS rules  https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=503.0



Quote
mjakram
Accounts Manager
Administrator
*

Cryptocurrency Tax Blog

« on: May 28, 2014, 06:56:16 PM »
A Little Bit about Myself

I am employed part time as the Accounts Manager of Alpha Technology and a Chartered Certified Accountant, qualified since 2012. I have an extremely high interest in different areas of taxation beyond and above the taxes I deal with in my day to day work.

I am a keen student of Tax and am currently working towards the Chartered Tax Adviser qualification (which is the “elite” and highest tax qualification you can achieve in the UK) and am looking to qualify as a CTA in late 2014.

Currently, working my regular full time job in general practice and dealing with the Accounts and Taxes of small to medium sized businesses. As of yet, none of our clients accept or deal with crypto currencies, however as the market for crypto currencies matures I am sure a lot of them will start to do so.

Unfortunately, I would not have any details or be able to help you with any questions relating to the operations of the business or any engineering related questions. Please direct these questions to one of the other Admins in this forum  Smiley

What I would like to obtain from this Blog

My goal is to help people understand the tax implications of certain activities such as mining, and trading/ holding “crypto-coins” such as bitcoin's and litecoin's.

My intention is to use this blog as a base whereby as a community we can educate each other, and when/if necessary provide my tax knowledge to help fellow crypto-currency users. By all means if I make a mistake or am ignorant of any information, please correct me and educate me, as this is how we learn!

I will be giving real life examples of potential scenarios throughout this blog. Initially, I will cover the VAT aspects of crypto currencies, and at a later date edit and update this blog covering Income Tax, Capital Gains Tax and Corporation Tax.

How I came into the world of crypto currencies

I first heard of Bitcoins, and Litecoins from my brother (the founder and CEO of Alpha Technology) early in 2013, and had no idea how they worked and had minimal understanding of them.

As a student of tax I was eager to gain knowledge on the tax rules surrounding this. I did contact HMRC and some notable tax specialists at the time requesting information on the tax treatment of various crypto currency transactions and businesses involved in this area.

From my conversations with  HMRC  at the time it seemed as if they were unsure how the whole thing works, which is understandable considering how new this phenomena is.

The vast majority of Tax Specialists and Accountants had not even heard of crypto-currencies at the time and even now, the first time I mention bitcoins or litecoins to my Accountant friends, the vast majority of them are like " bit what???  Shocked ".

I must be honest, when I first heard of crypto currencies, I thought of it as a game for “tech geeks” and thought it’d die away eventually. I could not contemplate, how something so virtual could hold value and operate in a real life economic ecosystem. How wrong my assumptions are proving to be!

Even today (28/05/2014), apart from briefing notes which have been issued from HMRC and the different interpretations of these notes from different tax experts, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) there is nothing which is “Law” relating to the tax treatment of crypto currency related activities in the UK.

As a result of this, I feel there will be ambiguity and uncertainty towards the tax treatment of different crypto-currency activities, UNTIL these rules are introduced into an act within tax legislation and when there is sufficient case law dealing with different crypto-situations.

Before I get cracking with explaining some of the VAT treatments of transactions related to crypto-currencies. I'd like every single UK crypto currency miner or trader to refer to this link:- http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm. These are the briefing notes which were issued by HMRC (which I was referring to above), and I believe in the UK this is ALL we have at the moment as Tax Advisers and Accountants to work from, from HMRC.

VAT (Value Added Tax)

Mining of crypto-currencies:-

HMRC have made it pretty clear that any type of business activities relating to the mining of crypto-currencies is EXEMPT from UK VAT and therefore outside the scope of UK VAT.

Quote
Incorrect their Mr Tax super guy.  They never said business activities.  They only said bitcoin related activities.  These activities can be done by businesses AND individuals.  In fact several times int eh brief the HMRC identifies individuals.

A very simple example:

Mr X operates a mining business. He mines 20 BTC in a tax year. He purchases mining equipment worth £500 + VAT. He incurs expenses of £1000 + VAT.

Being exempt and outside the scope of VAT means that NO output VAT will be due on the 20 BTC, and an important point to note is that No Input VAT would be reclaimable either.

This activity is NOT zero rated (it is specifically stated as exempt)which means it is outside the scope of VAT and you cannot just register your business for VAT in order to reclaim VAT on the expenses.

Please also note, if you are carrying out taxable activities alongside the exempt mining activities (i.e. you carry out exempt and taxable activities at the same time), there may be scope for recovering some input VAT provided certain tests are met, which are detailed in Reg 105A SI 1995/2518. I will not go into detail as to how this would work, however please seek advice from your tax adviser, if you feel you may fall into this category.

Exchange of Crypto-Currency to Pounds:-

Again, this is outside the scope of UK VAT and an exempt activity.

A simple example:

Mr Y, a speculative trader bought 100 Litecoins in May 2013 for £500 and sold these in December 2013 for £1000.

The above example would be outside the scope of VAT and have no VAT implications whatsoever.

Goods and Services sold in Exchange for Crypto-currency:-

If you are selling (taxable) goods or services and accepting Bitcoins as a method of payment, VAT is accounted for at the point the transaction takes place.

A simple example:

XYZ Ltd, advertise and sell Bitcoin Miners on their website and accept Bitcoins as a method of payment. Item goes on sale for £1200 (incl VAT), the date of sale 1 BTC is valued at £1200.

You would be liable to output VAT of £200 (£1200/6) on this transaction regardless of the movement in the exchange rate following that, as at the point where the sale took place the value of bitcoin was £1200.

Update 30/05/2014

Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax Implications of Cryptocurrency Mining

Before I get onto other areas of cryptocurrency related activities, I thought I'd take some time to describe the income tax and capital gains tax treatment specifically of cryptocurrency mining. Which I am sure is the area most of you would be interested in.

In terms of the information supplied by HMRC, there is very little on how bitcoin mining would exactly be taxed, so there is scope for different interpretations and different treatments by different individuals and their tax advisers.

However, the IRS has issued quite specific guidelines on how bitcoin mining activities should be treated for tax purposes. After communication with some tax advisers who deal with client's who do mine bitcoins, it seems most of them are following suit of the IRS. The general consensus was that HMRC will issue guidelines similar to those of IRS soon, in relation to bitcoin mining activities.

Quote
Oh really so what did the IRS say?  You only vaugly tell us.  But the reality is that the IRS did NOT explicitly specifc mining as a buinsess ONLY related activity.  They only said IF you are a business wanted to get into mining.


Quote
Miners

Miners that produce their own bitcoins are now subject to two different tax charges. They must include the fair market value of the virtual currency on the day that it is mined into their gross income.

Another stipulation in the IRS guidance is that capital gains are due on the sale of bitcoins viewed as a capital asset. The taxpayer must take this fair market value on the date of acquisition as the basis price for the coins. Capital gains will be due on the difference between that basis price and the eventual sale price.

This means that if and when they sell the bitcoins that they have mined, they will have to pay capital gains tax on any profit that they have made while owning them. Furthermore, if an individual mines bitcoin as a business, the net earnings from that business will be treated as self-employment income, and will be subject to self-employment tax.

You see that.  IF an INDIVIDUAL wants to mine bitcoin as a business.

Your entire house of cards is built on some guess work you made from a half ass reading of US IRS guidelines that say exactly opposite of what you said!!!!!!


An interesting read which I came across; http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2O1LR20140325?irpc=932

I thought the best way to describe how this would actually work would be by crunching some numbers and explaining it via a simple example;

Tom mines 1000 bitcoins from home in the tax year 2013/14 (6th April 2013- 5th April 2014).

At the date's the first 800 bitcoins were mined/created, the market value of bitcoin was £500 per bitcoin.

At the date's the last 200 bitcoins were mined/created the market value of bitcoin was £300 per bitcoin.

The business expenses relating to mining activities incurred by Tom in 13/14 were as follows :

- He bought miners for £50000
- Use of Home (including electric etc) was £42000
- He travelled 10000 miles on business to purchase parts for his miner, and attend bitcoin conferences etc. Giving him an £4500 allowable mileage expense.
- Print, Postage, Stationery, Sundry, Telephone, Internet etc (P. P. S. S) totalled up to £1592
- Accountancy Fees £2500

At 5th April 2014 (last day of the tax year), Tom is still holding these coins.

His income and expenditure account would look as follows, and he would be charged to income tax as follows :

Gross Income                                                           460,000
((500*800)+(300*200))                  

Less Expenses

Use of Home                   42000
Travel                                 4500
P.P.S.S                                 1592
Accountancy                   2500
                                              
Total Expenses                                                        (50,592)
                                                                                          ................
Net Income                                                                409,408
                
Capital Allowances                                              (50,000)
(100% AIA Claim)
                                                                                         .............
Taxable Income                                                      359,408
                                                                                        .............
In the tax year 13/14, Tom would be liable to pay income tax on a profit of £359,408.

Taking this example further

In the tax year 2014 /15, Tom decides to sell all 1000 of his bitcoins for £500,000.

He sells through a 3rd party website which charges him a fees of £1000.

He will now be liable to Capital Gains Tax on this sale as follows :

Gross Proceeds                                        500,000
Incidental Disposal Costs                   (1,000)
                                                                           ............
Net proceeds                                             499,000
Amount Charged to IT                          (359,408)                      
                                                                           ...............
Chargeable Gain                                     139,592
                                                                           ..............

At this stage, a further capital gains tax charge would be due on the gain of 139,592 before taking into consideration the annual exemption.

Please note that with capital gains tax there is some scope for tax planning opportunities. For example, before disposal gifting some bitcoins to your spouse in a NIL Gain NIL Loss transfer in order to utilise his or her annual exemption. I will not go into detail with how this works, however please seek advise from your tax adviser before selling any mined bitcoins.

Concluding Comments:

Please note my above example was a very simple hypothetical situation and the figures and categories for expenses and valuations of bitcoins have no reflection to a real life situation. In reality it would be much more complex, my aim was only to provide you with an overview of how the income tax and capital gains tax situation would work.

Please note I've made reference to AIA (Annual Investment Allowance), calculated a mileage rate and given a figure for 'use of home' expense. Please contact your tax adviser if you would like further information about how these figures are calculated.

Unfortunately, you do have to keep track of the value of each bitcoin/litecoin/dogecoin at the point it is mined in order to calculate your gross income for income tax purposes (this can be a tedious task - however this can easily be done at the year end using a website which gives historic cryptocurrency rates and tallying it up against your bitcoin or litecoin wallets).

I would also like to highlight that when you do sell your cryptocurrencies you do get relief for the amount that had already been charged to income tax

I hope this working example gives you guys a good idea of how cryptocurrency mining activities are taxed now. Your comments would be appreciated.  Smiley

M J Akram (AAIA, ACCA)

Accounts Manager & Tax Geek  Wink

Disclaimer

The information on this blog should not be used in any actual transaction without the advice and guidance of your own professional tax adviser who is familiar with all the relevant facts.

Although the information contained here is presented in good faith and believed to be correct, it is general in nature and is not intended as tax advice.

Furthermore, the information contained herein may not be applicable to or suitable for the individuals' specific circumstances or needs and may require consideration of other matters. All information is only relevant to UK Tax Laws.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 12:53:15 PM by mjakram »
 Logged
Likes fanfare, TheDoctor, Mubasher Akram, diego1000 and Fiaz Malik like this
anderl
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:34:11 AM
 #2074

Here is the screenshot from the alpha tech forum if they want to edit it for any reason.  NOtice who likes the damning post!!!

anderl
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:40:51 AM
 #2075

Looks like by their own employee admission that businesses and individuals can mine cryptocurrencies.

retro72
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 433
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:57:17 AM
 #2076

Ok digging into this deeper I found how Alpha Technologies assumed that miners are businesses.  They don't have a legal attorney.  They themselves imposed the ruling and all based on what they think the future regulations minght be because of some interpretation they made from the US IRS rules  https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=503.0

Nice find. I thought they had used US law as a basis for their claims. Nice to see the proof. Basically their newly qualified rookie accountant brother,  did a bit of reading up on cryptos, jumped to some conclusions added 2+2 together to get 5 and they decided to pretend this "advice" was given to them by a "leading UK law firm" (I bet they won't tell us the name of this firm).

Kind of typical from the same family of accountants that forgot to add VAT to their prices and still think they can ship in Q2 after July 1st  Roll Eyes


retro72
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 433
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 22, 2014, 12:58:26 AM
 #2077

Looks like by their own employee admission that businesses and individuals can mine cryptocurrencies.


Wow busted. Someone should probably email that to them when they next ask for a refund.
retro72
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 433
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 22, 2014, 01:05:44 AM
 #2078

ShootEmMoore just posted this. I thought I'd grab it before it got deleted.

Quote
ShootEmMoore
Customer

group trip to manchester

« on: Today at 01:47:18 AM »

Thinking of planning a group trip to manchester. If they arent giving infomation, they might in person.

Who knows, we probs walk in on the midway through packing for their runaway.
Even one of their most vocal supporters is turning against them. The peasants are revolting!
s1gs3gv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014

ex uno plures


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2014, 01:12:29 AM
 #2079

ShootEmMoore just posted this. I thought I'd grab it before it got deleted.

Quote
ShootEmMoore
Customer

group trip to manchester

« on: Today at 01:47:18 AM »

Thinking of planning a group trip to manchester. If they arent giving infomation, they might in person.

Who knows, we probs walk in on the midway through packing for their runaway.
Even one of their most vocal supporters is turning against them. The peasants are revolting!

What make you think they are in Manchester ? My guess is they split back to the asian subcontinent a while ago.
s1gs3gv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014

ex uno plures


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2014, 01:18:15 AM
 #2080

Here is the screenshot from the alpha tech forum if they want to edit it for any reason.  NOtice who likes the damning post!!!


These guys are just trying to generate business for the family firm of accountants. TL;DR

On the likes, yup all the AT sock puppets.
Pages: « 1 ... 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 [104] 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 ... 253 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!