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Author Topic: [1423GH] ABCPool PPS - Proxy Pool For High & Steady Mining Rewards  (Read 140717 times)
MintCondition
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January 26, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
 #621

So you effectively made ~9% off your miners by going to Goat ?
4% fee + 5% bonus.
Not exactly. The experiment with gigaminer was small (about a million shares), but a complete disaster. We ended up paying our miners for about 200,000 valid shares which have been rejected upstream.

ABC miners are always credited for every valid share they submit as long as it’s not a duplicate. Even if an 'upstream pool' later turns out to reject the share, the original miner is still credited.

That's another way that we create a predictable experience for our miners, which cost us quite a bit in this instance.
Could you please explain this properly.
Hi Kano,
I don't know for sure that I understand what needs additional explanation, but I'll try!
Quote
As far as I see it, it is your choice of where you sent the hashing that caused this problem.
It sure is.
Quote
So of course you should pay for the problems you cause - it would make no sense why people who mine at your pool should pay for that.
I completely agree, that's why we set it up that way. We absorb that risk, so our miners know that their shares are always counted. Luckily this problem has only happened once on this scale.
Quote
Had you processed the shares yourself, the stales would not have been anything like that
Yes, they would probably be a lot lower.
Quote
No pool should be having 20% stales, ever! ... all but foolish members would leave such a pool.
We intend to prevent shares from being routed through the project #2 pool in the future. We've now seen that it does not work when pools forward shares to each other in a circle. Who would have thought? Shocked

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kano
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January 26, 2012, 10:46:17 PM
 #622

So you effectively made ~9% off your miners by going to Goat ?
4% fee + 5% bonus.
Not exactly. The experiment with gigaminer was small (about a million shares), but a complete disaster. We ended up paying our miners for about 200,000 valid shares which have been rejected upstream.

ABC miners are always credited for every valid share they submit as long as it’s not a duplicate. Even if an 'upstream pool' later turns out to reject the share, the original miner is still credited.

That's another way that we create a predictable experience for our miners, which cost us quite a bit in this instance.
Could you please explain this properly.
Hi Kano,
I don't know for sure that I understand what needs additional explanation, but I'll try!
Quote
As far as I see it, it is your choice of where you sent the hashing that caused this problem.
It sure is.
Quote
So of course you should pay for the problems you cause - it would make no sense why people who mine at your pool should pay for that.
I completely agree, that's why we set it up that way. We absorb that risk, so our miners know that their shares are always counted. Luckily this problem has only happened once on this scale.
Quote
Had you processed the shares yourself, the stales would not have been anything like that
Yes, they would probably be a lot lower.
Quote
No pool should be having 20% stales, ever! ... all but foolish members would leave such a pool.
We intend to prevent shares from being routed through the project #2 pool in the future. We've now seen that it does not work when pools forward shares to each other in a circle. Who would have thought? Shocked
Yep it was that last bit that needs clarification.

Of course sending shares in a loop wouldn't work ... however, the getwork must come from somewhere ...

There must be some pool that replies to the getwork request and that is the pool that will accept/reject the shares.
So I'd not expect that the circle was the actual direct cause of the problem - that would mean that no getworks would be answered.

Somewhere in the "loop" there must have been getwork replies or no work would have happened on the loop at all.

The problem would be: not sending the share replies to the getwork source.
So I'd again guess that the issue there was (and has now been corrected) no proper correlation of where the getwork came from with where the share reply should go ...

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
freshzive
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January 27, 2012, 12:40:44 AM
 #623

When I go to ABCPool.co I get:

Access denied for user 'www-data'@'localhost' (using password: NO)

JWU42
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January 27, 2012, 12:57:36 AM
 #624

works for me...

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
jake262144
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January 27, 2012, 01:19:36 AM
 #625

When I go to ABCPool.co I get:
Access denied for user 'www-data'@'localhost' (using password: NO)
Can you ping ABCPool.co?
On a Windows box go start -> run -> cmd
In the text-mode window type
Code:
ping www.abcpool.co
and post results.
EDIT:: You should come up with the adress 107.21.24.13
Inaba
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January 27, 2012, 01:22:17 AM
 #626

That error is a mysql database error.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
jake262144
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January 27, 2012, 01:30:16 AM
 #627

Pardon me for trying to make sure he's actually connecting to the server he thinks he is.
A failed DB connection is what I'd expect from a hastily coded fake site.
Inaba
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January 27, 2012, 01:31:01 AM
 #628

WTF I was just providing some insight, I wasn't sabotaging your troubleshooting efforts.  I would also request the URL being used.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
jake262144
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January 27, 2012, 01:32:11 AM
 #629

Sorry Inaba, let's chill...
It's been a tough day.
freshzive
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January 27, 2012, 03:35:58 AM
 #630

Yeah, it loads now. Must have been them changing something on the site that gave a the DB error.

Pontius
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January 27, 2012, 05:06:54 AM
 #631

Could you please be more specific about what pools you are mining on and how you choose which pools you are mining. Are you using bithopper, or some other custom software?

It would seem that while you have "come clean" about what you are doing with shares you have not explained the how.

Are you pool hopping proportional pools with other miner's hashes?

[...]
What I can say is that we're using a variety of sources. We mix those both to spread the block-finding risk as much as possible, and to ensure a stable experience for our miners. The most important thing for us, and indeed the whole idea behind launching ABCPool originally, is to provide miners the most predictable mining experience possible: known rewards, low stales, low latency, high uptime. It turns out there are lots of pools out there that are barely functioning, so balancing stability and risk is quite a challenge.
[...]

Did I miss something or did you not answer gigavps question yet?
MintCondition
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January 27, 2012, 12:30:12 PM
 #632

Could you please be more specific about what pools you are mining on and how you choose which pools you are mining. Are you using bithopper, or some other custom software?

It would seem that while you have "come clean" about what you are doing with shares you have not explained the how.

Are you pool hopping proportional pools with other miner's hashes?

[...]
What I can say is that we're using a variety of sources. We mix those both to spread the block-finding risk as much as possible, and to ensure a stable experience for our miners. The most important thing for us, and indeed the whole idea behind launching ABCPool originally, is to provide miners the most predictable mining experience possible: known rewards, low stales, low latency, high uptime. It turns out there are lots of pools out there that are barely functioning, so balancing stability and risk is quite a challenge.
[...]

Did I miss something or did you not answer gigavps question yet?
We'd like people to choose for ABCPool because of the reliable experience and steady payouts.

Answering the above question unambiguously would require us to share the technical details which give our miners such a predictable mining experience. We don't want the competition using those to create a similar service.

We understand this leaves questions such as the above question from gigavps on the table. It might even lead some to drawing conclusions about their answers.

We are striving to provide our miners with the best, most predictable rewards imaginable and I'd like to think we are succeeding at that (as long as we're not being DDoSed Smiley). People looking for more are always free to search for it elsewhere.

Pontius
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January 27, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
 #633

So - in short - you do. That's bad news...  Sad
MintCondition
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January 27, 2012, 12:55:41 PM
 #634

In short: We don't share some of the technical details.
Your conclusion:
you do.

kano
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January 27, 2012, 01:07:24 PM
 #635

lulz - actually reading MintCondition's explanation post made me immediately think of a scene in the movie "Night and Day"
Where Tom Cruise says:
Reassuring words. Words like, "stabilize," "secure," "safe." If they say these words, particularly with repetition... (Okay.) ... it means they're going to kill you.
Cheesy

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
farfiman
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January 27, 2012, 01:36:10 PM
 #636

So - in short - you do. That's bad news...  Sad


If there were no "hoppable" pools there wouldn't be a problem....

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
Martin Armstrong
MintCondition
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January 27, 2012, 01:39:10 PM
 #637

lulz - actually reading MintCondition's explanation post made me immediately think of a scene in the movie "Night and Day"
Where Tom Cruise says:
Reassuring words. Words like, "stabilize," "secure," "safe." If they say these words, particularly with repetition... (Okay.) ... it means they're going to kill you.
Cheesy
LOL Smiley This is the first time someone admits I make them think of Tom Cruise. Thanks for making my day! Cheesy

Now to find Cameron Diaz and maybe get a movie project going. Any directors out there?

kano
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January 27, 2012, 01:48:01 PM
 #638

So - in short - you do. That's bad news...  Sad


If there were no "hoppable" pools there wouldn't be a problem....
There's this new pool called ... ... ... deepbit Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
Pontius
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January 27, 2012, 01:49:13 PM
 #639

In short: We don't share some of the technical details.
Your conclusion:
you do.

Is there any other conclusion possible?
The question was if you were hopping prop pools not how. You could simply answer that "if" without providing a single "technical detail". Instead you wriggle for an real answer....
farfiman
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January 27, 2012, 01:54:05 PM
 #640

So - in short - you do. That's bad news...  Sad


If there were no "hoppable" pools there wouldn't be a problem....
There's this new pool called ... ... ... deepbit Tongue

Is deepbit really hoppable in the context that its worthwhile for the hopper?
answer from hopper only please....

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
Martin Armstrong
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