NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Come-from-Beyond]

I doubt it also - but I do think we can address the Sybil attack vector much as with "hallmarking".

I am only trying to *help* but for sure my idea might not be the best one.

In the end we'll end having 1'000'000'000 IP addresses coz a guy with 5172 NXT will create 5172 accounts. So in the end we'll come back to the beginning.

Edit: A good name for this project has just come to my mind - Uroboros. 

[martismartis]

Is it some kind of giveaway?

Yes it's a secret. 

I like secrets Maybe there are more secrets? Looks like that all this comes from unclaimed coins divided to 3 funds. Is it?

[CIYAM]

In the end we'll end having 1'000'000'000 IP addresses coz a guy with 5172 NXT will create 5172 accounts. So in the end we'll come back to the beginning.

We can *limit* the accounts and make them only available to previous stake holders if required.

(i.e. there are solutions to this problem)

[redsn0w]

I doubt it also - but I do think we can address the Sybil attack vector much as with "hallmarking".

I am only trying to *help* but for sure my idea might not be the best one.

In the end we'll end having 1'000'000'000 IP addresses coz a guy with 5172 NXT will create 5172 accounts. So in the end we'll come back to the beginning.

Edit: A good name for this project has just come to my mind - Uroboros. 

so what is the best solution?

[redsn0w]

Is it some kind of giveaway?

Yes it's a secret. 

I like secrets Maybe there are more secrets? Looks like that all this comes from unclaimed coins divided to 3 funds. Is it?

That nxt coming from one of the 73 stakeholders

[Fatih87SK]

I wish I was a progammer so I could help you all. All I can do is be active on Twitter right now  

[sepehr]

Hi Guys,

We can arrange for a company account!
We can have two type of accounts, Personal accounts and company accounts like any Bank.
Personal accounts can act just like normal currency accounts. One person have the total control over the account while he/she have it's credentials.
But Company accounts can include several personal accounts. each personal account is a member of board of company and can participate in decisions.
Company board members can decide how the payments from company account should be made.
They will vote for a logical order that showing how payments from company account should be made.

For example:

Payments from Company Account(CA) can be confirmed if "Personal Account A"(PS-A) confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A and PS-B" confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A or (PS-B and PS-C)" confirm it.

So in this case the system can:

1-Form a company in virtual world.
2-The company board can take decisions according to the voting system we implemented separately for a "logical order".
3-payments from company can be made according to combination of Personal entities defined in "logical order"
4-Members of board at anytime can change the "logical order" of company so they can change the CEO of company as they wish.
5-The company after forming can announce Assets in Asset exchange feature. so everyone can be a stake holder of an asset of company. And receive dividends.

It's just a new Idea aroused in my mind!

I think every one that implement this idea in his currency will have the future!

[grandpa_seth]

We already have it - any account with 1 NXT can forge. Odds to find a block is another question.

The purpose of my proposal is to "change the odds" (in favour of the small stake holder).

For example, with 2358 Nxt I can forge the next block in 345 days.

and I believe that the reward will be 0 nxt, in my opinion it is not right  this is not EQUALITY  

Again, Nxt is not about mining mentality. If you like mining go to doge. Even the initial stakeholders invested 1 bitcoin to get 50 mill Nxt (I so jealous)

And everyone since had to BUY or earn Nxt. So we are valuing nxt in its appreciation not in mining rewards. How many times does it have to be said?

Forging is more of a civic duty to protect the network because you love and believe in nxt if not for the protection of your investment. So you

have 2k nxt why should u forge as much as someone with 2 million? Prudential is paying a dividend of 53 cents on March 20. If I have 100 shares

I will receive 53 dollars. The guy with 1 million shares will receive 530,000 dollars.  So according to your way of thinking it is not fair and I

should receive 530,000 dollars for my 100 shares. The sooner the few existing and brand new nxters understand this the better.

For the record I got into nxt late (imo) and bought as much as I could afford at various times between 4-7 cents. I have 300k nxt. To me that is not

nearly enough for me but is all I can afford. I'm working on buying more as soon as I can. I have been forging everyday and have only forged

20 nxt. And I couldn't be happier.


edit: Thank you very much mysterious 7017504655955743955.

[Sebastien256]

TY to 7017504655955743955! nice giveaway!

[Isildur23]

Politicians love the word "fair"!
I don't see any logical reason to change forging. We spent so much efforts explaining that Nxt is not about forging and the income from it. We are also contemplating lowering down the fees and making forging income insignificant. So all this stuff about big stakeholders' forging will become irrelevant.
Nxt is a platform. Anyone can create a "fair" coin on top of it. Maybe he/she should create a poll about "what the fuck is "fair"?". This will be a marketing/political bullshit for attracting new users.

[igmaca]

if leasing power forged for pools at most can only have 100000 nxt we would have several things:

pool forge every 2 3 days that  is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network

Yup - this seems like a good start.

Next Forge Problem

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhi9360ke6mtbqs/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_1.jpg

Equality Forge Solution

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9emz21xz8qfo1t3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_2.jpg


Equity Forge solution

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7i9vggpgb79ij3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_3.jpg

I just don't get it.  Sure, these pictures have an emotional appeal, because now all the cute kids can see over the fence.  So what?  Math is math.

You've got people who come to NXT with a mining mentality.  Eventually they realize that Proof of Stake means they can't get a super-fast machine that gives them an advantage over everybody else and put a whole bunch of newly minted coins in their pocket.  They are understandably disappointed.  So they turn from a mining rig to the other tool of the mining trade, a pool.  So now they're going to pool their NXT with others to be in a group that generates blocks more often than they could alone.  

My big question: how do they get more money from a pool than they would get forging on their own?

By the time you do all the division of fees back out to give the fair share to all of the pool members, isn't it the exact same return on investment they would get forging on their own and adding blocks less often?

THERE ARE NO NEW NXT COINS BEING CREATED FROM NOTHING, AS BITCOIN DOES.

Forging is just a recycle of existing coins.  So aren't pools just another level of "shell" in a "shell game"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game

 

NXT EQUITY forging

Nxt EQUITY FORGING  Will Leave without arguments people maintaining that in nxt ecosystem "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"
Nxt EQUITY FORGING Will Leave without arguments people maintaining that POS is not so sure than POW if eventually the number of nodes forging is concentrated in a few pools.

a) funds must stay in the Bob account own
b ) forging power should remain in the node where this Bob.
c) Bob commission of forging of the account Bob should go to the "transparent" pool and the pool manager split the commission forging in proportion to the amount of funds from the accounts that were at that time in the pool. (if Bob wants to lease the rights fees to a pool)

I do not know if this is technically very difficult to implement but it is clear that if not resolved little by little will create pools and concentrating on a few network nodes and so understand a network more vulnerable to attack .

I think the pool is very good solution for the small investor gives "equity to the system not equality to the system " but forging power should remain in the node where this account with the funds are for the sake of the security of the network.

Perhaps 100000 nxt coins  maximum amount for pool will be a initial good solution

if leasing power forged for pools at most can only have 100000 nxt we would have several things:

pool forge every 2 3 days that  is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network

We must not lose sight of the time factor.

The odds change if you forges every 2 3 days that if you forges every 1,000 days

Forging every 2 3 days increase the amount of nxt before and therefore increase their chances of forging

[xyzzyx]

If forging *must* be fundamentally changed from NXT proof-of-stake, I vote for it to be changed to Nxt proof-of-commitment.  By proof-of-commitment I mean a system where any node can be shown to support the Nxt network given its up-time, and the number of non-rejected blocks it has created in the past.

But right now proof-of-stake works for what we need to do and I'm a big fan of don't-fix-it-if-it-ain't-broken.

[redsn0w]

We already have it - any account with 1 NXT can forge. Odds to find a block is another question.

The purpose of my proposal is to "change the odds" (in favour of the small stake holder).

For example, with 2358 Nxt I can forge the next block in 345 days.

and I believe that the reward will be 0 nxt, in my opinion it is not right  this is not EQUALITY  

Again, Nxt is not about mining mentality. If you like mining go to doge. Even the initial stakeholders invested 1 bitcoin to get 50 mill Nxt (I so jealous)

And everyone since had to BUY or earn Nxt. So we are valuing nxt in its appreciation not in mining rewards. How many times does it have to be said?

Forging is more of a civic duty to protect the network because you love and believe in nxt if not for the protection of your investment. So you

have 2k nxt why should u forge as much as someone with 2 million? Prudential is paying a dividend of 53 cents on March 20. If I have 100 shares

I will receive 53 dollars. The guy with 1 million shares will receive 530,000 dollars.  So according to your way of thinking it is not fair and I

should receive 530,000 dollars for my 100 shares. The sooner the few existing and brand new nxters understand this the better.

For the record I got into nxt late (imo) and bought as much as I could afford at various times between 4-7 cents. I have 300k nxt. To me that is not

nearly enough for me but is all I can afford. I'm working on buying more as soon as I can. I have been forging everyday and have only forged less

than 10 nxt. And I couldn't be happier.


edit: Thank you very much mysterious 7017504655955743955.

So what are the nextcoin? if you can not forge what they do?

[bitcoinpaul]

This talk about changing forging algo looks like tampering, not more.

[grandpa_seth]

If forging *must* be fundamentally changed from NXT proof-of-stake, I vote for it to be changed to Nxt proof-of-commitment.  By proof-of-commitment I mean a system where any node can be shown to support the Nxt network given its up-time, and the number of non-rejected blocks it has created in the past.

But right now proof-of-stake works for what we need to do and I'm a big fan of don't-fix-it-if-it-ain't-broken.

+1 Very well said my thoughts exactly

[Meizirkki]

You cannot prevent the rich from forging more than the poor without major centralization of the entire forging system. Many people have proposed "fair bitcoin mining" too but you just can't do that in a decentralized system. Period.

[rickyjames]

We already have it - any account with 1 NXT can forge. Odds to find a block is another question.

The purpose of my proposal is to "change the odds" (in favour of the small stake holder).

The result of your proposal would be to make NXT no longer a 100% Proof of Stake (PoS) coin as it is today.  Your proposal  would "change" NXT into some kind of "odd" hybrid PoS coin that gave small stake holders greater power to influence the blockchain.

[CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime]

Contacting merchants to begin accepting Nxt is underway. Here's the stages:


1. Contact existing CoinPayments.net merchants to request Nxt

2. Contact the merchant list that accepts Litecoin

3. Work with marketing to put together a brochure

4. Begin finding new small customers and demo how CoinPayments (and other solutions as they appear) can easily integrate

[verymuchso]

JeanLuc

Couple of points.. (hope your not getting sick of me).

Could you possibly move all static initialization code in nxt.Nxt to nxt.Nxt.Init.init method. You probably planned that already, it could be my decompiler f%$'ing stuff up but it shows now that init method is empty (private static void nxt.Nxt.Init.init() {})  and that all code that should go there is in the static class initializer beneath it (again, that's what my decompiler thinks).

Because of the code in the static initializers it's impossible to register event listener before we kick off the init process, the event listeners are there off course to display init progress.

Also. You read in both "nxt-default.properties" and "nxt.properties" in the static class initializer in nxt.Nxt. The runtime exceptions thrown when those files are missing (our case) cannot be caught. I believe this code belongs in nxt.Nxt.Init.init to. But the exceptions thrown on missing property files remain a problem. I really like how you can pass a Properties object to Nxt.init. Maybe you can read the property files in nxt.Nxt.Init.init() and then in nxt.Nxt.Init.init(Properties properties) do the rest, that way we can simply call nxt.Nxt.Init.init(Properties properties).

I'm stuck at the moment and the only way out I see is to delete Nxt.class and create my own fork of Nxt.java (sucks really because of the decompiler mangling all the names). Where are you on your refactorings? Any chance you can release a version more geared towards java client developers?

If that's not the case if you could give me a copy of only Nxt.java I can at least share my changes with you.

As always thanks!

[gitinahang]

I agree that changing the pos is a bad idea unless BCNext has this planned for the future. If it does get changed it must be something that
rewards securing the network and if that can be done in a way people feel is fair that is great.