NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[2Kool4Skewl]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 51% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

Even with transparent forging, Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks.

Financial attack
Somebody buys up all the NXT.
I raised this, but CfB said is was acceptable

"Somebody buys up all the NXT."  <<< How?

Imagine simultaneous bids for NXT in the range of $100 USD, equivalent amount of EUR, JPY, etc.
with all fiats coordinating, most NXT owners would probably sell.

That would take $90,000,000,000.  I doubt that occurs.

[jl777]

@CFB / @Jean-Luc:

What is the minimum amount an asset should be sold for?

Is it 0.01 nxt?

Or can it be lower 0.00001 nxt for example?

Why / why not?

Lower than 0.01 is necessary for doge.

I was thinking about this, but really the only thing we cant do with .01 NXT increments is effectively sell a single DOGE. .01 NXT to .02 NXT is a doubling in price.

However, since getting a lot of precision in NXT is a lot of work, the answer is to just sell DOGE in lots of 1000 or more. That adds 3 decimal places in the precision possible. Originally I had thought it was a big problem, until I realized that people can actually control the precision possible by controlling the lotsize

James

[abctc]

yes.. we're searching to a donations/bounties  to run a node .. or to forge ( help the Nxt server ) .

I think this is a bad idea. Either the network/nxt itself can care of or this will fail.

- agree.

[2Kool4Skewl]

yes.. we're searching to a donations/bounties  to run a node .. or to forge ( help the Nxt server ) .

I think this is a bad idea. Either the network/nxt itself can care of or this will fail.

I think isn't a bad idea  .. more donations / bounties = more node .


Why this idea is a bad idea   

What happens when you run out of funds for donations / bounties?

You did not understand my idea, I do not mean to repay the costs of a node ... but only a part, for example 30% ..

You will still run out of money just at a slower rate.

[mcjavar]

A very interesting article:

"According to Stibel, all networks — natural or digital — share very similar life cycles. They begin with what's called "hypergrowth.""

http://mashable.com/2013/08/16/facebook-breakpoint/#:eyJzIjoiZiIsImkiOiJfeGpxcHF4YnI5NzZtcnU2NiJ9

[redsn0w]

You did not understand my idea, I do not mean to repay the costs of a node ... but only a part, for example 30% ..

Right now, this idea sounds really lame. You talk about donations and bounties.

Maybe I just don't get your idea

Maybe I'm wrong to call them donations, but the sense is that ..

I do turn on my VPS  ten nodes to help the communities ( nxt server ). it would be nice to get some nxt..


Maybe my idea is not that nice?

[jl777]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 51% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

Even with transparent forging, Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks.

Financial attack
Somebody buys up all the NXT.
I raised this, but CfB said is was acceptable

Yes.  It would be very hard to mount this attack, because you would have to own 90% of the currency.

$100 billion USD is not much at all to some organizations

[mcjavar]

Or someone steals (yes, I am looking at you MtGox) 90+% which can happen if we have 10-12 pools with most of the coins in them.

Wrong. Lease forging power to pools means not give NXT away.

You are right, thank you for pointing this out!

[bitcoinpaul]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 90% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

I think we shouldn't ignore the second point in our discussion since we need forging nodes. You say it is "done by TF" but TF only is the mechanism which saves us from 51% attacks. But we still need to talk about incentives for forging.

[2Kool4Skewl]

You did not understand my idea, I do not mean to repay the costs of a node ... but only a part, for example 30% ..

Right now, this idea sounds really lame. You talk about donations and bounties.

Maybe I just don't get your idea

Maybe I'm wrong to call them donations, but the sense is that ..

I do turn on my VPS  ten nodes to help the communities ( nxt server ). it would be nice to get some nxt..


Maybe my idea is not that nice?

This was my thought too.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5354163#msg5354163

[jl777]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 51% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

Even with transparent forging, Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks.

Financial attack
Somebody buys up all the NXT.
I raised this, but CfB said is was acceptable

"Somebody buys up all the NXT."  <<< How?

Imagine simultaneous bids for NXT in the range of $100 USD, equivalent amount of EUR, JPY, etc.
with all fiats coordinating, most NXT owners would probably sell.

That would take $90,000,000,000.  I doubt that occurs.

Exactly, thus "Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks" is doubtful that occurs

[bitcoinpaul]

You did not understand my idea, I do not mean to repay the costs of a node ... but only a part, for example 30% ..

Right now, this idea sounds really lame. You talk about donations and bounties.

Maybe I just don't get your idea

Maybe I'm wrong to call them donations, but the sense is that ..

I do turn on my VPS  ten nodes to help the communities ( nxt server ). it would be nice to get some nxt..


Maybe my idea is not that nice?

You are talking about incentives for running a node. Thats one part of the discussion. Please don't use the words donations/bounties. Would be really wrong wrong wrong.

[2Kool4Skewl]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 51% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

Even with transparent forging, Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks.

Financial attack
Somebody buys up all the NXT.
I raised this, but CfB said is was acceptable

Yes.  It would be very hard to mount this attack, because you would have to own 90% of the currency.

$100 billion USD is not much at all to some organizations

Don't forget that some people just won't sell.

[redsn0w]

yes.. we're searching to a donations/bounties  to run a node .. or to forge ( help the Nxt server ) .

I think this is a bad idea. Either the network/nxt itself can care of or this will fail.

- agree.

but if we want more nodes, and people can not create new ones because it has no budget .. how do we support the Nxt ?

[igmaca]

Hey guys,

To those that have tried my web client http://nxtra.org/nxt-client ; A beta version is now available for download here:

http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/dev.zip

Unzip, move the dev folder to nxt/html/tools/dev

Then go to http://localhost:7876/dev

This is assuming you have 0.8.1e installed (it will not work correctly on older versions!) - do not try

I suggest you connect to TestNet first though; in the upper left corner you can switch between TestNet and localhost. Try everything out in TestNet first, when you are comfortable you can connect locally. There may still be errors in the code, it's a beta after all.

Not everything is done yet, and Internet Explorer is completely untested. I suggest you use either chrome/firefox or safari for now.

Also need to do some more interactive updating after submission of forms, etc.

if you want, you can send me a message there via the alias wesleynxt (just open the send message dialog and type wesleynxt in the account field). Messages are not yet encrypted.

Let me know what you think.

I have the active 0.8.1.e client and I can not connect through the client file :/ / / C :/ nxt / html / tools / dev / dev / index.html #

You should put it at tools/dev not tools/dev/dev (but it shouldn't matter).

You are acessing it through http://localhost:7876/dev/ right? Do not double click on index.html as it will open via file:// which does not work.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7876.

Have you just clicked the link here:

http://localhost:7876/dev/

That should work, otherwise your java may not be running. Check if http://localhost:7875 works

Anyway, I'm off, will answer questions later.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7875
java is working because nrs client 8.0.1e is working well

How do you know 8.0.1e is working if you can't access http://localhost:7875 ?

I access by http://127.0.0.1:7875/

 

[bitcoinpaul]

yes.. we're searching to a donations/bounties  to run a node .. or to forge ( help the Nxt server ) .

I think this is a bad idea. Either the network/nxt itself can care of or this will fail.

- agree.

but if we want more nodes, and people can not create new ones because it has no budget .. how do we support the Nxt ?

This is a part of the whole discussion, my friend 

[abctc]

Is penalizing not a part of TF?

No, penalizing isn't part of TF.

- yes, penalizing is a key part of TF:

...Imagine someone is going to do a "51%" attack against Nxt and he owns 90% of all coins. The adversary must stop generating blocks for legit branch coz he won't be able to compete against 100% mining power with his 90%. So he decides to "skip" his turn to generate a block. The rest 10% of the network detects this and penalizes the adversary by setting his mining power to 0 and distributing it among other miners.

[wesleyh]

Hey guys,

To those that have tried my web client http://nxtra.org/nxt-client ; A beta version is now available for download here:

http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/dev.zip

Unzip, move the dev folder to nxt/html/tools/dev

Then go to http://localhost:7876/dev

This is assuming you have 0.8.1e installed (it will not work correctly on older versions!) - do not try

I suggest you connect to TestNet first though; in the upper left corner you can switch between TestNet and localhost. Try everything out in TestNet first, when you are comfortable you can connect locally. There may still be errors in the code, it's a beta after all.

Not everything is done yet, and Internet Explorer is completely untested. I suggest you use either chrome/firefox or safari for now.

Also need to do some more interactive updating after submission of forms, etc.

if you want, you can send me a message there via the alias wesleynxt (just open the send message dialog and type wesleynxt in the account field). Messages are not yet encrypted.

Let me know what you think.

I have the active 0.8.1.e client and I can not connect through the client file :/ / / C :/ nxt / html / tools / dev / dev / index.html #

You should put it at tools/dev not tools/dev/dev (but it shouldn't matter).

You are acessing it through http://localhost:7876/dev/ right? Do not double click on index.html as it will open via file:// which does not work.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7876.

Have you just clicked the link here:

http://localhost:7876/dev/

That should work, otherwise your java may not be running. Check if http://localhost:7875 works

Anyway, I'm off, will answer questions later.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7875
java is working because nrs client 8.0.1e is working well

How do you know 8.0.1e is working if you can't access http://localhost:7875 ?

I access by http://127.0.0.1:7875/

 

OK, have you tried http://127.0.0.1:7876/dev  

Please show a screenshot of the error on that page.

[redsn0w]

yes.. we're searching to a donations/bounties  to run a node .. or to forge ( help the Nxt server ) .

I think this is a bad idea. Either the network/nxt itself can care of or this will fail.

- agree.

but if we want more nodes, and people can not create new ones because it has no budget .. how do we support the Nxt ?

This is a part of the whole discussion, my friend  

So what is the most sensible solution?

[jl777]

We are searching for the right incentives for:

- running a node (this secures the network)
- running a node, have an open nxt account and forging with it (this secures the security of nxt = 51% attacks ?!) DONE by TF.

FIFY.

Even with transparent forging, Nxt is still susceptible to 90% PoS attacks.

Financial attack
Somebody buys up all the NXT.
I raised this, but CfB said is was acceptable

Yes.  It would be very hard to mount this attack, because you would have to own 90% of the currency.

$100 billion USD is not much at all to some organizations

Don't forget that some people just won't sell.

$200? $500? $1000? A dozen swimsuit models?
Everybody has their price