NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Come-from-Beyond]

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.

1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.

[igmaca]

So I predict that in the future the vast majority of stake holders will not have much technical expertise and will simply have given their forging rights to a pool and we are likely to end up with a small number of large pools (say 10).

If those pools are attacked in any serious manner then the 1000+ TPS network will be slowed to a "crawl" with a lot of non-technical stake holders probably blissfully unaware (too busy enjoying cocktails on a tropical island).

Even if they become aware reasonably quickly they won't have enough computing power to "bring the network back up to speed".

Doesn't any else see this as being a problem?

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

you do not have to give rights forging you have to give rights fees.

You must have your node equally open with my proposal.

if there is an attack on the pools network continuous forging

[freedomfighter]

if we are changing the fees from 1 NXT drastically to 0.01 NXT when transactions are few right now, isn't it a security concern since people will stop running nodes since there is little incentive to it?

I would continue to run a node just protect my investment and to be a good member of the NXT community even if there was no chance of increasing my NXT. I have close to 70K NXT and have been forging since the first of the year and have generated 3 blocks - each of them for 0 NXT.

This guy is the ideal Nxt citizen. Although I can hardly believe anybody is forging right now to make nxt money, the fees are more about preventing
spamming. Its a tricky balance we are faced with especially at this early stage. We anticipate a robust nxt economy where hundreds or thousands
of businesses are dependent on the nxt network with our 1000 tps. When that day comes fees will not need to be so high yet forging will still be
profitable due to the constant influx of transactions. However at this point its like a ghost town in comparison so 1 nxt fee is still necessary.

That is why right now it is very important for everyone to support nxt not to get fees but to keep the network alive and well until that day comes.
I think I will cry when that day comes. No, not because all the community's hard work will have been paid off. No, not because BCNext's vision
of a new economy and less reliance on government control will be here. Not because there will be a Nxt Bible published filled with CFB's
mysterious riddles divided into chapters and Psalms. Not because of any of that. But because we will all be rich 

It seems to me that the best solution to this chicken and egg problem is to gradually decrease the forging fee overtime based on the number of overall transactions in the network. kind of a sliding scale that will automatically kick in when the network averages an X number of transactions over a Y period. if transactions go down the number will increase back to the previous scale and so on and so forth. This way, when the network is large and not dependent on such fluctuations but on other economical and ideological incentives, fees will be low. If traffic and network participants slow down incentives will increase back until an equilibrium is reached. A gradual mechanism towards the ideal goal is better then radical shifts in the model.    

[Mario123]

Pump

Who is able to develop a lightweight NXT tool for Windows and Mac, which sits just in your taskbar/menubar (see picture as an example)?

Installing and running this little tool should be hassle free. You can lookup your account, use main Nxt functions (like sending NXT, messaging), activate/deactivate forging right from the menu and you see some general blockchain stats.

That way, we could promote this little gadget as a simple and lightweight tool which runs smoothly in the background, forging for you (or not) and securing the Nxt network.






(I'm no windows user. Do windows user still have this little apps in the task bar? Or is there a modern equivalent, like a gadget on the desktop?)

Since this is so OS-special, maybe two different developers for Windows and Mac. Come on, guys. Raise your hand for this project!

[l8orre]

In ~8 hours I'm planning to reload the testnet, balances will be reset.

thanks for the announcement - will be en garde. Will need testNXT because FreeRider is becoming usable!

[btc2nxt]

Pump

Who is able to develop a lightweight NXT tool for Windows and Mac, which sits just in your taskbar/menubar (see picture as an example)?

Installing and running this little tool should be hassle free. You can lookup your account, use main Nxt functions (like sending NXT, messaging), activate/deactivate forging right from the menu and you see some general blockchain stats.

That way, we could promote this little gadget as a simple and lightweight tool which runs smoothly in the background, forging for you (or not) and securing the Nxt network.






(I'm no windows user. Do windows user still have this little apps in the task bar? Or is there a modern equivalent, like a gadget on the desktop?)

Since this is so OS-special, maybe two different developers for Windows and Mac. Come on, guys. Raise your hand for this project!

i am designing it basing marcus03 source code.

[btc2nxt]

Using Nxt to give gold in BBS replacing member point system

in reddit, anyones can donate btc to authors if they think the authors’ opinion is very impressive.
In the same way, china has many bbs using member points. Vip members get many points, but thes points are no use. So if these points convert nxts, vip member would be very glad help other members. There are a huge members in IT.
there are three parters: website(using member point system) ,nrs in personal computer or mobile, online wallet.
scenario:
1.   in website ,a member want to give gold to a author, click the author, show a send nxt screen, input the nxt number, like 100
2.   confirm.
a)   the website send a message to online-wallet or VPS,not using nxt chains(if sender don’t register in the online wallet, online-wallet just ignores it)
b)   the website throught the nxt chains ,send message to the sender(if sending message is too expensive ,the website may not use nxt). but now the fee is too high to implement this.
3.   send money
a)   sign in the online wallet, see the transaction, then confirm it,then money send to receiver.
b)   or open nrs on pc(iphone,andriod), see a new message containng payment information,click it ,show send money confirm , ,send meoney to the receiver.

using NXT,we can give gold in twitter,blog,weibo.cn

[Come-from-Beyond]

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.

1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.

After discussing this issue with CIYAM Open I got that we indeed have a problem here. If users will just lease their power and forget then one day Nxt network may die.

Sorry for my previous mistake, my English is not good enough to get some ideas clearly.

[igmaca]

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.

if only we give fees rights the same network could go automatic grouping the nodes that want to get to forge for example a size of 100000 nxt

this would lead to forge every 2 to 3 days that is a reasonable value

[rickyjames]

You have completely missed the point - once our "much hyped" 1000+ TPS has been slowed down to 10 TPS people are going to dump NXT and run (making the network even more fragile) rather than "go out and by a powerful computer to help restore the network" and that could turn out to be a catastrophic event.

Who says you need powerful computers to forge?  And 1000+ TPS is pure marketing. There is no way in hell Nxt is getting anywhere close to that amount of transactions in the next 5 years.

If you build it, they will come.

[rickyjames]

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.

1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem.

After discussing this issue with CIYAM Open I got that we indeed have a problem here. If users will just lease their power and forget then one day Nxt network may die.

THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.

[rickyjames]

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1

Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list):

^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul,  buybitcoinscanada
ChuckOne, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil,  EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Klee, landomata, laowai80,  msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw,  PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer,  Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda,  Uniqueorn, VanBreuk,  ZeroTheGreat


Something Zahlen said:  A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded.

If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476

Background:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786

Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:


NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon,  Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct, CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau, chanc3r
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames


Yeah, you may have seen this before.  I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so.  It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things.

[igmaca]

I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.

The question is "forging with what"?

If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS.

I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*.

if only we give fees rights the same network could go automatic grouping the nodes that want to get to forge for example a size of 100000 nxt

this would lead to forge every 2 to 3 days that is a reasonable value

that is to say


my proposal is to just give in to the pools forging fees rights. Not forging power. Not funds

forging power and funds stay in bob account

forging fees rights stay in pool if bob wants.

if bob forge and forging fees rights are in the pool bob must split forging fees with other people in the pool proportionally with amount of funds in this moment.

the pools are created automatically by the network grouping the accounts. for example a size of 100000 nxt this would lead to forge every 2 to 3 days that is a reasonable value


I think for that direction is the right solution.

The number of pools and the size of them I reach an optimum value beyond which no interest be bigger.

with this solution the network will always be extremely decentralized and every body have the same opportunities to forge.

you just have to adjust the transaction fee for the annual return to forge all year continuously is equivalent to the cost of maintaining the node. if for example it is estimated that with 10000 nodes is enough then we must assess how much maintaining 10000 nodes for a year and evaluate the number of transactions in the year and adjust the fees.

[salsacz]

My intention is to put one of these trifold brochures on every chair in the three speaker areas at the Texas Bitcoin Conference early in the morning on March 6

if you do this, organizator will collect them all in 5 minutes. It is not allowed to use conf areas for non paid ads

Then I will just have to figure out another way to distribute them once they are printed.  Perhaps I can arrange for (cute female?) handout personnel at the doors when they open.  Certainly we need printed handout materials for the four conferences we are going to have reps at over the next six weeks.  My request for funding stands.  

I think in April (New York, Toronto) Nxt will look so different, that we will need new materials and text at that time. nxt.org, new branding resources from Damelon's friends..

So how much would cost a cute female? Who will hire her for all events and will she have tickets also to get in?

[Eadeqa]

So how much would cost a cute female? Who will hire her for all events and will she have a tickets also to get in?

Does she have to know anything about Nxt?

This isn't a problem, as long as she only have to dress flirty.

Contact me

[abctc]

..
THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.

- infrastructure fund will lead to centralization. It is a task for developers (like BCNext, C-f-B and CIYAM) to figure this stuff out and make the forging profitable for many people, not only to those sponsored by  fund.

[CIYAM]

..
THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.

- infrastructure fund will lead to centralization. It is a task for developers (like BCNext, C-f-B and CIYAM) to figure this stuff out and make the forging profitable for many people, not only to those sponsored by  fund.

It is up to the community as a whole to think about this potential threat (as that is all it is btw) and decide whether we are wanting to make technical changes or to simply work out practical ways to protect our network.

To paraphrase something that CfB said to me: "BCNext gave us a knife - it's up to us not to accidentally cut ourselves".

[rickyjames]

..
THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.

- infrastructure fund will lead to centralization. It is a task for developers (like BCNext, C-f-B and CIYAM) to figure this stuff out and make the forging profitable for many people, not only to those sponsored by  fund.

My gut feeling is that forging NXT will never be profitable for anybody.  Somebody show me I'm full of crap.

The real centralization that is going to occur is that as more and more people become interested in NXT, more and more NXT forging power will become concentrated in exchanges like Cryptsy.  If anybody is going to make a profit forging NXT, it's going to be Cryptsy when they finally bring NXT trading online.

Yeah, yeah, I know that decentralized exchanges will kick in after that.  NXT and its network structure is going to go through several incarnations.  all of them are goin to have to work with a seamless handoff between them.  And we cannot forsee this evolution, just try to manage it as best we can as it happens.  In a decentralized way.  This should be very interesting to watch, and quite a challenge.

The ultimate success of NXT is far from guaranteed.  It is a currency whose support and even existence depends on a sense of civic responsibility, not just the pure greed behind Bitcoin mining.

 

[Mario123]

Dear community, please discuss the following charity idea:

http://nxtproject.org


We could reach many early adopters of Nxt (we all are right now) with this project, since there is some economic thinking behind it. But maybe, there is an error in reasoning. Some overlooked problems. Or you really like the idea.

Please express your opinions on this before we put this project to market or just delete and forget about it.

[CIYAM]

My gut feeling is that forging NXT will never be profitable for anybody.

I think it is going to be profitable for a few pools mostly and I predict that in the future most forging power will be locked up in ATs that act as "interest bearing accounts" (http://ciyam.org/nxt/nxt_dormant.html).

It is up to the community to make sure that we don't just end up with a small number of pools and a few hundred hobbyists.