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 Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756367 times)
igmaca
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 February 23, 2014, 06:07:28 PMLast edit: February 23, 2014, 06:24:50 PM by igmaca

if leasing power forged for pools at most can only have 100000 nxt we would have several things:

pool forge every 2 3 days that  is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network

Yup - this seems like a good start.

Next Forge Problem

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhi9360ke6mtbqs/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_1.jpg

Equality Forge Solution

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9emz21xz8qfo1t3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_2.jpg

Equity Forge solution

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7i9vggpgb79ij3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_3.jpg

I just don't get it.  Sure, these pictures have an emotional appeal, because now all the cute kids can see over the fence.  So what?  Math is math.

You've got people who come to NXT with a mining mentality.  Eventually they realize that Proof of Stake means they can't get a super-fast machine that gives them an advantage over everybody else and put a whole bunch of newly minted coins in their pocket.  They are understandably disappointed.  So they turn from a mining rig to the other tool of the mining trade, a pool.  So now they're going to pool their NXT with others to be in a group that generates blocks more often than they could alone.

My big question: how do they get more money from a pool than they would get forging on their own?

By the time you do all the division of fees back out to give the fair share to all of the pool members, isn't it the exact same return on investment they would get forging on their own and adding blocks less often?

THERE ARE NO NEW NXT COINS BEING CREATED FROM NOTHING, AS BITCOIN DOES.

Forging is just a recycle of existing coins.  So aren't pools just another level of "shell" in a "shell game"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game

Leasing forged fees not leasing power forged

<lots of words>

I...STILL...DON'T....GET....IT.

Unlike Bitcoin, unlike DOGE, unlike all the other crap coins that are out there that I ran away from to get here, NXT IS A ZERO SUM GAME.  There are no new coins being created.  A coin that goes in one NXT forger's pocket has to come out of another NXTer's pocket, either from a NXT transaction fee payer's pocketor from another NXT forger's pocket.  HAS TO.

So for ANY scheme is concocted that pools NXT to forge,  IF that scheme claims a pool member will get some LARGER proportion of forged coins than they would get from a true 100% Proof of Stake system that NXT runs by now, THEN BY DEFINITION some other pool member is getting a SMALLER proportion than they would by acting alone.   So explain to me who is getting shafted under this new scheme?

Not that your explanation matters, because with falling transaction fees, I doubt anybody can profitably support amortizing the purchase cost of a forging node and its electricity costs under ANY scheme, including the one NXT is operating under right now.

You wanna mine free coins and get rich, go see DOGE.  You wanna try to experiment and create a more sustainable system that faces bigger challenges than it seems at first glance, stick around for this fun roller coaster ride called NXT.

ok just trying to help
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EmoneyRu
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Nxt-kit developer

 February 23, 2014, 06:08:00 PM

Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?

I have 0.8.0e @ DSVPS.1. 12 hours uptime (updated from 0.7.6), 151/512Mb RAM & 205/256 Swap used. Works fine.

P.S. got 2k too. Thanks

pinarello
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NXT is the future

 February 23, 2014, 06:08:10 PM

who ever it is he is spreading the wealth, think he is filling orders at bter also.

CHEAP NXT but not for long...

daysi
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 February 23, 2014, 06:09:36 PM

Forging is future : https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3652.msg34665.html#msg34665

EvilDave
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 February 23, 2014, 06:10:56 PM

Thanks once again 7017504655955743955
This is really an awesome community!!

Any one want to count up how many guys/gals/whatever have been touched by 70175xxxx today?

Maybe we can all send her/him a big bunch of flowers or some beer.......thx again,btw.

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
dave5555
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 February 23, 2014, 06:14:00 PM

All this talk about forging and running nodes and this and that and unfair and that.....

And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.

I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.

+1, good work, fellow dave.

Nice +1
EmoneyRu
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Nxt-kit developer

 February 23, 2014, 06:15:10 PM

Any one want to count up how many guys/gals/whatever have been touched by 70175xxxx today?
Maybe we can all send her/him a big bunch of flowers or some beer.......thx again,btw.

First part is sooo easy.

xyzzyx
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I don't really come from outer space.

 February 23, 2014, 06:15:42 PM

I am thinking about setting up a public VPS node to offer a(nother) node for my users of my NXT client.

Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?

Thanks!
Marcus

You might want to keep an eye on Low End Box for deals.

Opticalcarrier/forkedchain recommends BudgetVM.com's 1024MB VPS for \$4.99/month for setting up low-cost nodes.  I pay to keep the lights on for one of his VPSs at BudgetVM (xyzzyx.vps.nxtcrypto.org) and it was \$4 a month for a full year paying up-front.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
xyzzyx
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I don't really come from outer space.

 February 23, 2014, 06:17:38 PM

who ever it is he is spreading the wealth, think he is filling orders at bter also.

CHEAP NXT but not for long...

Damn.  I never have BTC at the right time.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
EvilDave
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 February 23, 2014, 06:20:28 PM

Any one want to count up how many guys/gals/whatever have been touched by 70175xxxx today?
Maybe we can all send her/him a big bunch of flowers or some beer.......thx again,btw.

First part is sooo easy.

I love having smarter people than me around here.
Looks like 40+ donations, from 1000-5000 NXT. Nice one....!

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
Anon136
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 February 23, 2014, 06:21:02 PM

7017504655955743955 you rock man! thanks so much!

*edit* also 2037401990853753795 who ever you are also thank you so much. you also are awesome!

*edit2* google search reveals 2037401990853753795 is salsacz. thanks buddy. what was that for specifically?

If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
lyynx
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 February 23, 2014, 06:23:38 PM

Green Nxt: exotic video, new version:
http://youtu.be/cP4KFH6Iz0g

feel free to share

Good video, perhaps a typo though, "Mine Forge Nxt with your smartphone or raspberry pi"

or did you use mine for attraction value to a newcomer

PRiytwvb6PgstjBPTsMintS4fS2SnfZ1EJ
grandpa_seth
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Simcoin Puny Humans Communicator

 February 23, 2014, 06:24:19 PM

All this talk about forging and running nodes and this and that and unfair and that.....

And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.

I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.

+1, good work, fellow dave.

I am thinking about setting up a public VPS node to offer a(nother) node for my users of my NXT client.

Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?

Thanks!
Marcus

I'm running a non-hallmarked VPS 24/7 on Amazon EC2, monthly costs were \$1.38 for January, and are \$0.34 for Feb. Costs fuck all, basically.
Looks like hosting costs are dropping as Jean-Luc works his magic. If version 0.8 also has such low overhead, I'll fire up a few more EC2 instances at the begining of March.

I think that forging should stay as it is...big holders get bigger rewards. It's PoS, live with it.
However: we need to encourage a healthy NXT network, now and in the future, and forging income alone doesn't seem to be enough right now to motivate people. We need some way to make contributing to the network at least slightly profitable for everyone, not just guys with enough to forge.

When Nxt goes to 1 dollar soon. Even small holders will forge if for no other reason than to secure the health of the network to get to 10 dollars.
xyzzyx
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I don't really come from outer space.

 February 23, 2014, 06:25:12 PMLast edit: February 23, 2014, 09:18:27 PM by xyzzyx

Green Nxt: exotic video, new version:
http://youtu.be/cP4KFH6Iz0g

feel free to share

Good video, perhaps a typo though, "Mine Forge Nxt with your smartphone or raspberry pi"

or did you use mine for attraction value to a newcomer

You know how I know BCNext is not a native English speaker?  A native English speaker never would have used the word "forge" positively in connection with currency.

Edit: it has been brought to my attention that BCNext hadn't used the term -- the community came up with it early on.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
rickyjames
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 February 23, 2014, 06:25:34 PM

I...STILL...DON'T....GET....IT.

Unlike Bitcoin, unlike DOGE, unlike all the other crap coins that are out there that I ran away from to get here, NXT IS A ZERO SUM GAME.  There are no new coins being created.  A coin that goes in one NXT forger's pocket has to come out of another NXTer's pocket, either from a NXT transaction fee payer's pocketor from another NXT forger's pocket.  HAS TO.

So for ANY scheme is concocted that pools NXT to forge,  IF that scheme claims a pool member will get some LARGER proportion of forged coins than they would get from a true 100% Proof of Stake system that NXT runs by now, THEN BY DEFINITION some other pool member is getting a SMALLER proportion than they would by acting alone.   So explain to me who is getting shafted under this new scheme?

Not that your explanation matters, because with falling transaction fees, I doubt anybody can profitably support amortizing the purchase cost of a forging node and its electricity costs under ANY scheme, including the one NXT is operating under right now.

You wanna mine free coins and get rich, go see DOGE.  You wanna try to experiment and create a more sustainable system that faces bigger challenges than it seems at first glance, stick around for this fun roller coaster ride called NXT.

ok i just trying to help

I'm not saying you can't help and I want you to stick around and try to help.  I'm just saying that I am a numbers guy and I would appreciate seeing the full picture of who gets more rewards and who gets less under any idea you propose.
rickyjames
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 February 23, 2014, 06:26:59 PMLast edit: February 23, 2014, 06:37:53 PM by rickyjames

You know how I know BCNext is not a native English speaker?  A native English speaker never would have used the word "forge" positively in connection with currency.

+1000.  This is a real problem for anybody learning about NXT for the first time.  There is a valid and legitimate use in English for "forger" as being "one who heats and works metal", like a blacksmith.  But the FAR MORE COMMON use of "forger" in English is "one who creates fake documents, particularly financial ones".
Anon136
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 February 23, 2014, 06:27:12 PM

All this talk about forging and running nodes and this and that and unfair and that.....

And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.

I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.

+1, good work, fellow dave.

I am thinking about setting up a public VPS node to offer a(nother) node for my users of my NXT client.

Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?

Thanks!
Marcus

I'm running a non-hallmarked VPS 24/7 on Amazon EC2, monthly costs were \$1.38 for January, and are \$0.34 for Feb. Costs fuck all, basically.
Looks like hosting costs are dropping as Jean-Luc works his magic. If version 0.8 also has such low overhead, I'll fire up a few more EC2 instances at the begining of March.

I think that forging should stay as it is...big holders get bigger rewards. It's PoS, live with it.
However: we need to encourage a healthy NXT network, now and in the future, and forging income alone doesn't seem to be enough right now to motivate people. We need some way to make contributing to the network at least slightly profitable for everyone, not just guys with enough to forge.

When Nxt goes to 1 dollar soon. Even small holders will forge if for no other reason than to secure the health of the network to get to 10 dollars.

We just need a client that makes it so that there is no cost to forging. Then even if your chances are small there will still even then be no reason not to participate. All other things being equal a 0.001% chance to win 1000 dollars is better than a 0.000% chance of winning 1000 dollars even though 0.001% is a pretty slim chance.

If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
opticalcarrier
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 February 23, 2014, 06:29:19 PM

Green Nxt: exotic video, new version:
http://youtu.be/cP4KFH6Iz0g

feel free to share

Good video, perhaps a typo though, "Mine Forge Nxt with your smartphone or raspberry pi"

or did you use mine for attraction value to a newcomer

You know how I know BCNext is not a native English speaker?  A native English speaker never would have used the word "forge" positively in connection with currency.

I dont believe bcnext came up with that term
rickyjames
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 February 23, 2014, 06:30:56 PMLast edit: February 24, 2014, 03:32:05 AM by rickyjames

NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1

Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list):

ChuckOne, CIYAM Open, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil,  EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Klee, landomata, laowai80,  msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw,  PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer,  Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda,  Uniqueorn, VanBreuk,  ZeroTheGreat

Something Zahlen said:  A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded.

If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476

Background:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786

Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:

NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon,  Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct, CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau, chanc3r
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames

Yeah, you may have seen this before.  I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so.  It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things.
grandpa_seth
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Simcoin Puny Humans Communicator

 February 23, 2014, 06:31:02 PM

All this talk about forging and running nodes and this and that and unfair and that.....

And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.

I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.

+1, good work, fellow dave.

I am thinking about setting up a public VPS node to offer a(nother) node for my users of my NXT client.

Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?

Thanks!
Marcus

I'm running a non-hallmarked VPS 24/7 on Amazon EC2, monthly costs were \$1.38 for January, and are \$0.34 for Feb. Costs fuck all, basically.
Looks like hosting costs are dropping as Jean-Luc works his magic. If version 0.8 also has such low overhead, I'll fire up a few more EC2 instances at the begining of March.

I think that forging should stay as it is...big holders get bigger rewards. It's PoS, live with it.
However: we need to encourage a healthy NXT network, now and in the future, and forging income alone doesn't seem to be enough right now to motivate people. We need some way to make contributing to the network at least slightly profitable for everyone, not just guys with enough to forge.

When Nxt goes to 1 dollar soon. Even small holders will forge if for no other reason than to secure the health of the network to get to 10 dollars.

We just need a client that makes it so that there is no cost to forging. Then even if your chances are small there will still even then be no reason not to participate. All other things being equal a 0.001% chance to win 1000 dollars is better than a 0.000% chance of winning 1000 dollars even though 0.001% is a pretty slim chance.

+1440
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