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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761532 times)
sparta_cuss
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March 02, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
 #39341

...
"Selfish miners (those who only mine to earn fees) should be "removed" from the system. They are not interested in the success of Nxt and only want to cash out."

...

Basically, this discussion has been had over the last week.
It's immediately linked to forging payouts.

"Selfish" (although some, including me, prefer the term "passive") forgers will, if they are not rewarded more than "break even" for running a node, in all probability not run a node if they have other motives than earning "free Nxt".

"Active" forgers, ie. forgers that run a service, would do so, because it allows them to run their service, and cut out operating costs.

So, passive forgers would not be "cut out" in any active sense. It would just not be attractive in their terms to do so.

However, this discussion is still ongoing. James (jl777) for instance, has proposed methods for these people to earn coins by aggregating CPU power.

That helps. Right now I'm a passive forger, mainly because I am not technical enough to contribute by creating some new product or service. As NXT matures and metalayrers are enhanced and simplified, that will change, I think.

It helps me to think in terms of analogies. So I think of NXT as the transportation infrastructure: roads, signs, lights, etc. that support the more interesting things - movement of commodities, communication, currencies, etc. As a forger, I operate a toll booth on one of those roads. According to my NXT "contract" (forging), I maintain my little part of the highway in return for getting a little bit of the tolls. Right now, the tolls are extremely low. Like you, I don't earn enough to keep the lights on on my part of the highway. But increasing the tolls may not be the answer. My "philosophical" question goes back to BCNext's quote. We can think of the toll booth operator as a parasite who is only benefiting the infrastructure because doing so serves his selfish interests. Or we can think of the tooth booth operator as someone who deserves a bit of a payout for providing a valuable service to the infrastructure. I think BCNext was concerned about the parasites, and rightly so. But what makes a parasite?

"We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." - E.M. Forster
NXT: NXT-Z24T-YU6D-688W-EARDT
BTC: 19ULeXarogu2rT4dhJN9vhztaorqDC3U7s
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March 02, 2014, 01:45:55 AM
 #39342

NXT Soooooo Hoooooot !!!!!!!
Waiting for AE.

Fly high~
King of the sky~
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March 02, 2014, 01:51:00 AM
 #39343


https://www.cryptsy.com/users/viewdeposits/118




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March 02, 2014, 01:53:12 AM
 #39344

i find it hard to believe that i only posted in this thread 83 times

83 is two month ago, now it is 527!
How hard would it be to bump this from 100 people to 300 or even 500 people?  I am looking for involved NXTers to send these ballot codes to...

the list is actually 1018 lines long, I cut it to only 100, the following is top500:
Code:
   rank npost   id
     1 4541 Come-from-Beyond
     2 1224 jl777
     3 1042 pinarello
     4 981 smaragda
     5 884 landomata
     6 857 bitcoinpaul
     7 768 opticalcarrier
     8 748 salsacz
     9 724 Damelon
    10 665 laowai80
    11 662 utopianfuture
    12 589 wesleyh
    13 566 CIYAM Open
    14 556 ChuckOne
    15 527 Anon136
    16 523 NxtChg.com
    17 522 mcjavar
    18 502 rickyjames
    19 497 klee
    20 470 msin
    21 432 allwelder
    22 402 S3MKi
    23 400 brooklynbtc
    24 360 xyzzyx
    25 359 abctc
    26 354 EvilDave
    27 351 TwinWinNerD
    28 345 Passion_ltc
    29 336 BitcoinForumator
    30 332 swartzfeger
    31 331 ZeroTheGreat
    32 323 nexern
    33 308 gbeirn
    34 295 2Kool4Skewl
    35 281 Jean-Luc
    36 278 starik69
    37 277 ImmortAlex
    38 264 xibeijan
    39 264 EmoneyRu
    40 258 pandaisftw
    41 257 dzarmush
    42 247 marcus03
    43 210 NxtChoice
    44 208 bitcoinrocks
    45 198 instacash
    46 198 ferment
    47 193 l8orre
    48 190 Pablito89
    49 184 Uniqueorn
    50 183 Zahlen
    51 182 martismartis
    52 180 wakasaki808
    53 179 redsn0w
    54 176 davethetrousers
    55 175 chanc3r
    56 172 Bitventurer
    57 169 Eadeqa
    58 163 lophie
    59 155 gimre
    60 148 kodtycoon
    61 146 abuelau
    62 145 punkrock
    63 142 buybitcoinscanada
    64 140 timmyd
    65 137 igmaca
    66 132 joefox
    67 131 smartwart
    68 127 notsoshifty
    69 125 PeercoinEnthusiast
    70 121 bithic
    71 116 fmiboy
    72 116 bizz
    73 116 BloodyRookie
    74 113 FrictionlessCoin
    75 111 intel
    76 111 BitAddict
    77 110 LiQio
    78 109 lucky88888
    79 104 Fatih87SK
    80 101 coolfish
    81 101 GCInc.
    82 99 inkadnb
    83 97 rriky92
    84 97 newsilike
    85 95 kunibopl
    86 93 Pouncer
    87 93 CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime
    88 91 Ola
    89 90 ^[GS]^
    90 89 Coinonaer
    91 88 Mario123
    92 85 superresistant
    93 85 iruu
    94 85 gs02xzz
    95 84 Emule
    96 83 Mistafreeze
    97 83 Jack Needles
    98 80 bybitcoin
    99 77 okaynow
   100 76 bidji29
   101 75 coolmist
   102 73 Chang Hum
   103 72 newcn
   104 72 greyw00lf
   105 70 OKNXT
   106 70 BaiMangal
   107 69 Sebastien256
   108 69 MyZhre
   109 67 jkoil
   110 66 apenzl
   111 66 Drexme
   112 65 Labteck
   113 64 idev
   114 64 artik123
   115 63 snowboard789
   116 63 mnightwaffle
   117 62 mr_random
   118 62 Sharky444
   119 61 yuriygeorge
   120 61 mthcl
   121 61 kwest
   122 59 zhangdu
   123 59 twistelaar
   124 59 PaulyC
   125 57 Asian Prepper
   126 57 Alias
   127 56 bahamapascal
   128 55 loopgate88
   129 55 davidoski
   130 52 mezzovide
   131 51 crazybonkers
   132 51 Jerical13
   133 50 marek3ball
   134 50 cc001
   135 50 VanBreuk
   136 49 google98
   137 49 Isildur23
   138 48 nxtgt
   139 47 seek4dream
   140 47 mikesbmw
   141 46 lyynx
   142 46 Hacer88
   143 45 Noitev
   144 45 Meizirkki
   145 45 BitThink
   146 44 delulo
   147 44 Kontakt
   148 43 Vega
   149 42 relm9
   150 42 plasticAiredale
   151 42 nov
   152 42 minusbalancer
   153 42 achimsmile
   154 41 farl4web
   155 41 SkillRoad
   156 40 voldemort628
   157 40 Secondleo
   158 40 McDoxy
   159 39 Voluntold
   160 38 nakaone
   161 38 User705
   162 38 Kodoka
   163 38 IveBeenBit
   164 38 BrianNowhere
   165 37 admiral.fu
   166 37 Patel
   167 36 subSTRATA
   168 36 LightningFury
   169 35 verymuchso
   170 34 sparta_cuss
   171 34 ebereon
   172 34 MarvellousMutant
   173 33 DrearyUrbanite
   174 32 zorke
   175 32 vanea84
   176 32 Forobitcoins
   177 31 pmabdsf
   178 31 nxtru
   179 31 bitdraw
   180 31 2X84
   181 30 omo
   182 30 JohnyCrypt
   183 30 Framewood
   184 29 vintagetrex
   185 29 nxtsky
   186 29 freigeist
   187 29 btc2nxt
   188 29 bitme
   189 28 longzai1988
   190 28 grandpa_seth
   191 28 antanst
   192 28 Hegemon
   193 27 aldrin
   194 27 Conurtrol
   195 26 ifightformerkel
   196 26 grex
   197 26 garcias
   198 26 cryptolawyer
   199 25 mkmen
   200 25 lr127
   201 24 jadedjack
   202 24 erik__
   203 24 NxtMinnow
   204 24 Mises_77
   205 24 Kattywampus
   206 23 yan83
   207 23 swansong
   208 23 lurning
   209 23 eid
   210 22 xgc
   211 22 tk808
   212 22 nnn
   213 22 gorgorom
   214 22 colinistheman
   215 22 Timetwister
   216 22 Ezravdb
   217 21 mindtomatter
   218 21 MadCow
   219 20 windjc
   220 20 btc24
   221 20 artila
   222 20 CrazyEyes
   223 20 CoinBuzz
   224 20 Buratino
   225 19 miramare
   226 19 matt4054
   227 19 gvans
   228 19 Daedelus
   229 18 psybits
   230 18 podyx
   231 18 morningtime
   232 18 mercenar1e
   233 18 maco
   234 18 josephliton
   235 18 gradis
   236 18 drsnuggles
   237 18 Fern
   238 18 Ebrelus
   239 18 DLXS
   240 17 yassin54
   241 17 xcn
   242 17 visaco
   243 17 giveBTCpls
   244 17 eB101
   245 17 SZZT
   246 17 QBTC
   247 17 Ardolafat
   248 16 tman10
   249 16 ricot
   250 16 pastet89
   251 16 ninjaboon
   252 16 nadrimajstor
   253 16 mingophoria
   254 16 manrus
   255 16 kknk808
   256 16 evanxxx
   257 16 bitmadaboutcoin
   258 16 KLONE
   259 15 wizzardTim
   260 15 w4llace
   261 15 neer.g
   262 15 markn
   263 15 kpax7788
   264 15 hypersire
   265 15 getfun12345
   266 15 garp
   267 15 blackfyre175
   268 15 alrose
   269 15 Mac Red
   270 14 tylerbrad85
   271 14 killver
   272 14 dr_yan_yan
   273 14 alex0909
   274 14 ViktorK
   275 13 user1922
   276 13 trefifund
   277 13 sherpico77
   278 13 r3animation
   279 13 pabloangello
   280 13 luckygenough56
   281 13 jubalix
   282 13 jettico
   283 13 jackyrozario
   284 13 d5000
   285 13 cromaclear
   286 13 POPPP
   287 13 Jimmy2011
   288 12 xchrix
   289 12 xadidos
   290 12 sepehr
   291 12 pocesar
   292 12 mww
   293 12 maxbit
   294 12 italovers
   295 12 d13id
   296 12 ROBERTO
   297 12 EpicThomas
   298 12 Coinsy
   299 12 Armando
   300 12 ArcticWolfie
   301 11 rb2
   302 11 qqNxt
   303 11 professorhandsome
   304 11 nesco1805
   305 11 mczarnek
   306 11 matt608
   307 11 feeleep
   308 11 Choboy
   309 11 Agent86
   310 10 grizmoblust
   311 10 barbierir
   312 10 ParmaBTC
   313 10 NWO
   314 10 Krabby
   315 10 Komputor
   316 10 GröBkAz
   317 10 DiCE1904
   318 10 BitCoiner2012
   319 10 96redformula
   320 9 zerocom
   321 9 tillou
   322 9 stdset
   323 9 rdanneskjoldr
   324 9 oldnbold
   325 9 nxtuser
   326 9 nelisky
   327 9 mynxtcoin
   328 9 mudshark79
   329 9 markus1000
   330 9 marcoslopez
   331 9 jelin1984
   332 9 extee
   333 9 dittie
   334 9 cfrm
   335 9 bittick
   336 9 Xtar
   337 9 X68N
   338 9 Tompa
   339 9 Thingamajig
   340 9 ThePatient
   341 9 Nyx
   342 9 Edacra
   343 9 Dps23
   344 9 DeadlyEskimo
   345 8 zakorus
   346 8 ycm82
   347 8 tooroth
   348 8 stereotype
   349 8 puck2
   350 8 nxt-e.com
   351 8 noashh
   352 8 masterOfDisaster
   353 8 hyunsookmom
   354 8 hobbster
   355 8 halabibk
   356 8 drdops
   357 8 demols
   358 8 chinabreak123
   359 8 btcruss
   360 8 asdlolciterquit
   361 8 aorith
   362 8 Xio
   363 8 X_X_X
   364 8 N[e]wBie
   365 8 NXT
   366 8 MtheK
   367 8 Kaliber1
   368 8 Istanbul34
   369 8 HinnomTX
   370 8 Gaman
   371 7 wwdz99
   372 7 wastedbit
   373 7 titan20
   374 7 sussex
   375 7 skytaper
   376 7 shinep
   377 7 rnr
   378 7 maratmmz
   379 7 hoax
   380 7 eXtatiC
   381 7 canuck
   382 7 bitfromit
   383 7 bitbets
   384 7 arafel71
   385 7 alxx77
   386 7 Stark-Fujikawa
   387 7 Snard
   388 7 Kmonk
   389 7 Jaguar0625
   390 7 Jackevin
   391 7 JKBtCn
   392 7 Gonzo418
   393 7 CommanderVenus
   394 7 Boiar
   395 6 subhead
   396 6 spud3861
   397 6 sherrifshenko
   398 6 pilotbo
   399 6 naurisdede
   400 6 mvag
   401 6 mellorbo
   402 6 leetrump
   403 6 jdebunt
   404 6 himmelsfaller2
   405 6 fehen
   406 6 dulinxu
   407 6 dawn
   408 6 cryptohunter
   409 6 cryptobanks
   410 6 bitoktlk
   411 6 bitcool
   412 6 SpeedDemon13
   413 6 Rluner
   414 6 Morguk
   415 6 Ludom
   416 6 Luceat
   417 6 Lubliana
   418 6 JohnDoe21
   419 6 Jcsarokin
   420 6 GroinCoin
   421 6 CryptKeeper
   422 6 BCFrex
   423 5 yesuper
   424 5 xyz
   425 5 vitvert
   426 5 virtualaddict
   427 5 techo051
   428 5 stamen123
   429 5 slothbag
   430 5 shoichikun808
   431 5 scor2k
   432 5 schnib12
   433 5 rmKHT
   434 5 panhc2014
   435 5 ojman28
   436 5 nonstopdonkey
   437 5 neonemu
   438 5 nemra
   439 5 mishan
   440 5 mikaljan
   441 5 jari76
   442 5 hilotime
   443 5 gobpaul
   444 5 dudenohair
   445 5 dave5555
   446 5 crendore
   447 5 coloredcoin
   448 5 caishendizi
   449 5 boredeo
   450 5 axxian
   451 5 alexrussel1980
   452 5 Xandrexx
   453 5 Voodah
   454 5 Sondey10mg
   455 5 Silv0r
   456 5 Orrechorre
   457 5 MrFring
   458 5 LiveFree
   459 5 Fry
   460 5 Fastpow
   461 5 FandangledGizmo
   462 5 Elokane
   463 5 CCInvestor
   464 5 Boing7898
   465 4 wezelvis
   466 4 vgo
   467 4 usafinders
   468 4 td services
   469 4 tadakaluri
   470 4 stoneone
   471 4 standards
   472 4 soho01592
   473 4 slavo
   474 4 simpleunit
   475 4 sava0123
   476 4 rigel
   477 4 rajc
   478 4 podohost
   479 4 lovebit
   480 4 loumatrix
   481 4 larue05
   482 4 kitkat007
   483 4 jenya-les12
   484 4 jchi18
   485 4 hichman
   486 4 furball
   487 4 freedomfighter
   488 4 ewibit
   489 4 esse83
   490 4 dimirfu
   491 4 datguyian
   492 4 cxhjmfl
   493 4 chindit
   494 4 aan
   495 4 User500
   496 4 Trade101
   497 4 TM
   498 4 Sparky_eMunie
   499 4 PiNX
   500 4 Mogly

BTC:1NzzfeHCgN8fF6mSG1UeBFCVd2cxKbGyHk
NXT:13187911577562526278
rickyjames
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March 02, 2014, 01:54:00 AM
 #39345

This is what I plan to do next:

Jean-Luc, it is a wonderful thing to have a sense of direction expressed from the core of the NXT dev team.  Please make posts like this more often.  Thnak you (and BCNext, and all the rest) for your and their hard work to put NXT on such a firm foundation of solid code.
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March 02, 2014, 01:56:46 AM
 #39346

I have made the current source code repository public:

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/

Master branch is still 0.7.6, develop is 0.8.3 plus latest unreleased changes.


Cool.  Thanks!

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
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March 02, 2014, 01:57:23 AM
 #39347

26......I must get out more. See Outsidetm

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
Love your money: www.nxt.org  www.ardorplatform.org
www.nxter.org  www.nxtfoundation.org
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March 02, 2014, 01:58:30 AM
 #39348

I have made the current source code repository public:

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/

Master branch is still 0.7.6, develop is 0.8.3 plus latest unreleased changes.

wonderful,be sure.

 
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.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
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March 02, 2014, 01:59:41 AM
 #39349

Guys I need some links for educating someone in NXT!
you may find some useful links here www.nxt123.info

 
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jl777
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March 02, 2014, 02:02:02 AM
 #39350

James,

I tried get a screen shot of the Bitgem client that I was talking to you about earlier and had no luck. Here is a link to download the client setup for it if you have time to check it out to see my meaning. http://cryptosource.org/bitgem-mandatory-update-released/

It allows for holding several types of coins with several types of values, (you will see). my thought was that this type of wallet (if possible to do) would let NXT users keep the coins that came through your gateway in the NXT network to be sent and received, and increase the number of transactions and fees to our network instead of sending them back to their original network (In a sense hijacking them). It could also let them send and receive regular AE assets (which would be handy for using the AE assets as sub-currencies NXT currency). It may also make the AE less cumbersome to use as once people purchased an asset they could spend it through their wallet and not the AE. If it is possible it would really compliment the gateway you are working on. If you have some time to kill maybe check it out and see what you think.

 Also I was wondering about fees for your gateway. Will there be fees for the holding account? Will they be the same as regular NXT transactions?


It sounds like this bitgem is just a GUI that creates a unified wallet. I dont see any reason why this cant be done, except I personally dont do GUI, so we need to find a GUI dev to do this. All the AE is doing is NXT API calls to transfer assets, so the GUI just does the same and if it goes back to the gateway, it gets passed on through to the actual wallet.

There will be the bitcoin TXFEE to sweep the deposit into the multisig (also the TXFEE to initially send the deposit)
There is one or two NXT transaction fees to transfer the asset in. I am currently not charging that, but probably will have to pass on the costs. That is why I am advocating .01 NXT transaction fee.

On withdrawal, there is a single TXFEE for the multisig, but this is automatically deducted from the withdrawal amount. You will also incur a NXT transaction fee to send back to gateway.

Here is a cost summary:
wallet -> gateway TXFEE
gateway -> multisig TXFEE, 1 or 2 NXT transaction fees (charged at what rate?)
AE -> gateway, 1 NXT transaction fee
multisig -> wallet TXFEE

So if you start with 1.0000 sent to gateway from wallet, you will get charged 1.0001
.9999 goes into multisig
.9998 would come back to wallet
Thats .03%, but of course higher percentage for smaller deposits, plus the 2 or 3 NXT transaction fees.
At current exchange rates, another .024% for NXT fees, ignorable when we go to .01 NXT

The gateways transaction costs would be roughly .05% on 1.0000 roundtrip deposit withdraw, these will have to be passed through. There will also need to be some fees to cover the cost for running the gateway, but this will get smaller as the usage goes up. We might even get some big donor to subsidize the server costs for the gateways (hint, hint) as the lower the cost for using the gateway, the more assets flow into NXT AE, the more NXT will be worth

My job is to make the fees as small as possible to maximize volumes. I dont think the gateway is the right place to monetize. After all, if you see a big toll booth for both ways, are you more or less likely to go in?

Once we get NXT transaction fee to .01 NXT, then the trading commission for 1000 NXT valued items would be .001%, which is a bit lower than on most centralized exchanges. Assuming we have easy to use trading GUIs, I dont see why a significant percentage of crypto trading wont happen inside NXT AE. I predict we will see bots making trades every block, which adds up to 10 NXT in commissions for an entire day of trading. More volumes means tighter spreads which means better prices for everyone.

In order to create a NXT economy, we need to get money into AE. Once there is a billion dollars worth of trading per day within the AE, it really wont be hard to monetize. We are in very early days now. Building market share is most important.

James





http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Jerical13
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March 02, 2014, 02:09:09 AM
 #39351

...
"Selfish miners (those who only mine to earn fees) should be "removed" from the system. They are not interested in the success of Nxt and only want to cash out."

...

Basically, this discussion has been had over the last week.
It's immediately linked to forging payouts.

"Selfish" (although some, including me, prefer the term "passive") forgers will, if they are not rewarded more than "break even" for running a node, in all probability not run a node if they have other motives than earning "free Nxt".

"Active" forgers, ie. forgers that run a service, would do so, because it allows them to run their service, and cut out operating costs.

So, passive forgers would not be "cut out" in any active sense. It would just not be attractive in their terms to do so.

However, this discussion is still ongoing. James (jl777) for instance, has proposed methods for these people to earn coins by aggregating CPU power.

That helps. Right now I'm a passive forger, mainly because I am not technical enough to contribute by creating some new product or service. As NXT matures and metalayrers are enhanced and simplified, that will change, I think.

It helps me to think in terms of analogies. So I think of NXT as the transportation infrastructure: roads, signs, lights, etc. that support the more interesting things - movement of commodities, communication, currencies, etc. As a forger, I operate a toll booth on one of those roads. According to my NXT "contract" (forging), I maintain my little part of the highway in return for getting a little bit of the tolls. Right now, the tolls are extremely low. Like you, I don't earn enough to keep the lights on on my part of the highway. But increasing the tolls may not be the answer. My "philosophical" question goes back to BCNext's quote. We can think of the toll booth operator as a parasite who is only benefiting the infrastructure because doing so serves his selfish interests. Or we can think of the tooth booth operator as someone who deserves a bit of a payout for providing a valuable service to the infrastructure. I think BCNext was concerned about the parasites, and rightly so. But what makes a parasite?

Freedom isn't free. Forging makes it pretty cheap.
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March 02, 2014, 02:43:29 AM
 #39352

i find it hard to believe that i only posted in this thread 83 times

83 is two month ago, now it is 527!
How hard would it be to bump this from 100 people to 300 or even 500 people?  I am looking for involved NXTers to send these ballot codes to...
the list is actually 1018 lines long, I cut it to only 100, the following is top500:

newcn, thank you so much for this list.  I think this is effectively a voter registration list for the current ongoing funding committee votes.  My intention is to get a ballot code to most of the people on this list.  If they cared enough to follow this thread and make multiple posts, they deserve a ballot.
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March 02, 2014, 02:44:31 AM
 #39353

James,

I tried get a screen shot of the Bitgem client that I was talking to you about earlier and had no luck. Here is a link to download the client setup for it if you have time to check it out to see my meaning. http://cryptosource.org/bitgem-mandatory-update-released/

It allows for holding several types of coins with several types of values, (you will see). my thought was that this type of wallet (if possible to do) would let NXT users keep the coins that came through your gateway in the NXT network to be sent and received, and increase the number of transactions and fees to our network instead of sending them back to their original network (In a sense hijacking them). It could also let them send and receive regular AE assets (which would be handy for using the AE assets as sub-currencies NXT currency). It may also make the AE less cumbersome to use as once people purchased an asset they could spend it through their wallet and not the AE. If it is possible it would really compliment the gateway you are working on. If you have some time to kill maybe check it out and see what you think.

 Also I was wondering about fees for your gateway. Will there be fees for the holding account? Will they be the same as regular NXT transactions?


It sounds like this bitgem is just a GUI that creates a unified wallet. I dont see any reason why this cant be done, except I personally dont do GUI, so we need to find a GUI dev to do this. All the AE is doing is NXT API calls to transfer assets, so the GUI just does the same and if it goes back to the gateway, it gets passed on through to the actual wallet.

There will be the bitcoin TXFEE to sweep the deposit into the multisig (also the TXFEE to initially send the deposit)
There is one or two NXT transaction fees to transfer the asset in. I am currently not charging that, but probably will have to pass on the costs. That is why I am advocating .01 NXT transaction fee.

On withdrawal, there is a single TXFEE for the multisig, but this is automatically deducted from the withdrawal amount. You will also incur a NXT transaction fee to send back to gateway.

Here is a cost summary:
wallet -> gateway TXFEE
gateway -> multisig TXFEE, 1 or 2 NXT transaction fees (charged at what rate?)
AE -> gateway, 1 NXT transaction fee
multisig -> wallet TXFEE

So if you start with 1.0000 sent to gateway from wallet, you will get charged 1.0001
.9999 goes into multisig
.9998 would come back to wallet
Thats .03%, but of course higher percentage for smaller deposits, plus the 2 or 3 NXT transaction fees.
At current exchange rates, another .024% for NXT fees, ignorable when we go to .01 NXT

The gateways transaction costs would be roughly .05% on 1.0000 roundtrip deposit withdraw, these will have to be passed through. There will also need to be some fees to cover the cost for running the gateway, but this will get smaller as the usage goes up. We might even get some big donor to subsidize the server costs for the gateways (hint, hint) as the lower the cost for using the gateway, the more assets flow into NXT AE, the more NXT will be worth

My job is to make the fees as small as possible to maximize volumes. I dont think the gateway is the right place to monetize. After all, if you see a big toll booth for both ways, are you more or less likely to go in?

Once we get NXT transaction fee to .01 NXT, then the trading commission for 1000 NXT valued items would be .001%, which is a bit lower than on most centralized exchanges. Assuming we have easy to use trading GUIs, I dont see why a significant percentage of crypto trading wont happen inside NXT AE. I predict we will see bots making trades every block, which adds up to 10 NXT in commissions for an entire day of trading. More volumes means tighter spreads which means better prices for everyone.

In order to create a NXT economy, we need to get money into AE. Once there is a billion dollars worth of trading per day within the AE, it really wont be hard to monetize. We are in very early days now. Building market share is most important.

James





I  agree with you on needing to keep the cost low and using volume to drive the value of NXT. I can't help but wonder about the server costs and the risk of holding the other currencies. This may sound kinda sharkish but would it be possible to use the holding account to provide for the cost of the server? If there were enough banked in the holding account to cover withdraws and to make loans and charge interest?

For example, if there are 1000 people with money in the holding account it would be very unlikely that they would all want to withdraw at the same time. Knowing this you could safely lend a portion of the holding account out at interest to cover the cost of the server expense, and maybe bank some of the interest for insurance on the holding account. I don't mean to make a profit, as I understand your reasoning in wanting to provide the service for the worlds benefit, but economics is economics.

There is going to be a cost for providing this service. And it may be possible to generate the funds to pay for the service like this. Or if you made sure to include some proof of stake coins in the gateway inclusions and had enough of them banked to get fees for them (if that is possible).

 Maybe that is crazy.  Cheesy

I think the AE is awesome and what you are doing with it is awesome. Game changing.
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March 02, 2014, 02:47:36 AM
 #39354

3. Before actually enabling Asset Exchange, I need to make the transition from storing transaction amounts and fees in Nxt to nano-Nxt (0.000000001 Nxt), or whatever fits in a Java long, given that the max possible balance or transaction amount is 1000000000 Nxt. I previously thought about adding a new transaction type, but this will be more complicated and ugly in the long run, so better do it right. At first this is just about increasing the precision at which amounts are stored, enabling actual usage of fractional amounts and fees will be done at a later step. But this has to be finished before the AE is turned on, it will be much more difficult after that. And it will have to be very well tested, so again we need a reliable test network.

I would recommend that we go with 8 decimal places (same as Bitcoin and most clones) as it will make it far easier for people to "port" their code to work with NXT (i.e. API returned "balance" should be 100000000 for 1 NXT).

Anyone using "blockchain.info" (which CIYAM Open does) will be "dividing the balance" by 100000000 to display the value as people expect to see it so if we go with the same number then it will require only changing the website request (rather than both the request and their code).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
MIG.fish
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March 02, 2014, 02:55:34 AM
 #39355

3. Before actually enabling Asset Exchange, I need to make the transition from storing transaction amounts and fees in Nxt to nano-Nxt (0.000000001 Nxt), or whatever fits in a Java long, given that the max possible balance or transaction amount is 1000000000 Nxt. I previously thought about adding a new transaction type, but this will be more complicated and ugly in the long run, so better do it right. At first this is just about increasing the precision at which amounts are stored, enabling actual usage of fractional amounts and fees will be done at a later step. But this has to be finished before the AE is turned on, it will be much more difficult after that. And it will have to be very well tested, so again we need a reliable test network.

I would recommend that we go with 8 decimal places (same as Bitcoin and most clones) as it will make it far easier for people to "port" their code to work with NXT (i.e. API returned "balance" should be 100000000 for 1 NXT).

Anyone using "blockchain.info" (which CIYAM Open does) will be "dividing the balance" by 100000000 to display the value as people expect to see it so if we go with the same number then it will require only changing the website request (rather than both the request and their code).


Yes, it is easy to modify my code if using big integer
jl777
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March 02, 2014, 03:09:24 AM
 #39356

This may sound kinda sharkish but would it be possible to use the holding account to provide for the cost of the server? If there were enough banked in the holding account to cover withdraws and to make loans and charge interest?
You are suggesting fractional reserve.
To that, I just say no

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
LemonAndFries
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March 02, 2014, 03:09:39 AM
 #39357

So I've been having trouble setting up a node under Debian.

This is the error I get after 0.8.3 starts:

./run.sh: line 1:  3004 Killed                  java -Xmx1024M -cp nxt.jar:lib/*:conf nxt.Nxt

Help is appreciated.
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March 02, 2014, 03:23:30 AM
 #39358


Woo! Can't wait Smiley

Hopefully Cryptsy problems are less than when I used to use them. Can't wait for an English speaking main exchange though(other than DGEX)
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March 02, 2014, 03:39:57 AM
 #39359

Emails going out in the next 48 hours to 80+ contacts that will be at the Texas Bitcoin Conference. Whatever bites we received, we'll kick it right back to marketing.  We've created a spreadsheet and sent the link to Asian Prepper and RickyJames. I'd really like to see us make contact with some of the investment groups that will be at the conference.
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March 02, 2014, 03:45:19 AM
 #39360

Suggested NIP (Nxt Improvement Proposal)

Adding "meta information" to Arbitrary Messages.

As AMs are going to become a key communication tool for various other parts of the Nxt system (including NIPs themselves) I suggest that we decide on one of the two ways of providing minimal "meta" information for AMs.

This could be done in the following 2 ways:

1) Encode them as URIs (making it simple for web apps to handle different kinds of things).

or

2) Use the first x bits of the AM to indicate the type.

The advantage of 1 is the simplicity for web apps (i.e. no coding necessary) and the advantage of 2 is size (we only have 1000 bytes for an AM currently).

Which way we go is up to the community - but whichever way I would like to see then an NIP AM (which might just contain the hash of an NIP document - the document itself could be posted on forums or wherever else).

By having such information your "inbox" could automatically place messages in different folders and could also perhaps sound an "alert" according to the AM type received (e.g. we might expect to also have an "alert" AM a bit like Bitcoin alerts).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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