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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756458 times)
VanBreuk
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March 04, 2014, 02:19:03 PM
 #40241

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Release 0.8.5

(...)


Thank you!

Problem: the run.bat windows script returns syntax error. It appears to be related to the newlines, the original script posted by EmoneyRu works fine as pasted from Gist.

It is a problem with line feeds. Unix only uses LF and DOS/Windows uses CR/LF in the end of the lines. Right now the run.bat in 0.8.4e/5 does not work as is.

For the next release, using Linux you should run the .bat file through unix2dos, or you can use perl:
Code:
perl -p -e 's/\n/\r\n/' < LINUX_RUN.BAT > WINDOWS_RUN.BAT
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bitcoinpaul
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March 04, 2014, 02:24:22 PM
 #40242

But if there would be no progress in straigt atomic crosschain for several months and you will release slick and sexy "NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain" solution i may reconsider and propose another bounty for this (with yet not determined amount of NXT).

Nice! But "several months" is very long in the crypto world.
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March 04, 2014, 02:24:46 PM
 #40243

I can't get Offspring to work, I see no blocks, no transactions and my balance is zero!

Huh

Make sure you are not running another instance of Nxt. Only then it will download blockchain.
http://imgur.com/WJ8EGO3
Sebastien256
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March 04, 2014, 02:25:57 PM
 #40244

Unless the other block chains are getting downloaded and updates locally by miners on BOTH chains, that can neer happen. Just settle for minimal trust of a gateway with 100% transparency of in-out?
The plan is to have bitcoind, dogecoind, etc. all running on the gateway servers and all three (or more) that are involved in the transaction need to generate the exact same rawtransaction, down to every bit, before any withdrawals are approved. In order for this to happen, they have to all be on the same chain, which we presume to be the main chain if they are geographically separate

With all account balances reconciled after every block and all the gateways and however made clients (via nodecoin-qt) will provide near realtime detection of any problems. Trust, but verified many times.

I think if the gateways provide a 1:1 correspondence (publicly visible) of deposits to assets in AE (publicly visible), then we can directly trade any crypto asset against each other. With a small NXT API change to allow denominating trades in terms of a specified asset, people could directly trade AUR/BTC within NXT AE. There wont be any need to do complicated secrect publishing for each transaction. I think most people are trading more than one trade per day, if they are trading. Seems much more convenient to deposit what you want to sell, trade, withdraw what you got. Or you could just leave it in the community gateway multisig accts.

I really think we are a single API change away from being able to trade any crypto to any crypto. Just need to install all the bitcoind forks on the servers. We can have each set of three servers just multisig one bitcoind fork. The cold wallet multisig trustees would only need to run the wallets for the big money crypto, probably bitcoin and maybe a few others.

James



Trading any crypto against any other crypto can be a total mess. Well, maybe? Im asking. In such situation, the number of assets in AE can grow to the square of the number of crypto available in AE, while it grow linearly if every crypto are only list against NXT. Would not be simple to maintain the system if only list again NXT? This will make NXT the standard.

Maybe there is something I don'T understand.

Nxt official forum at: https://nxtforum.org/
wesleyh
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March 04, 2014, 02:26:03 PM
 #40245

I can't get Offspring to work, I see no blocks, no transactions and my balance is zero!

Huh

Make sure you are not running another instance of Nxt. Only then it will download blockchain.
http://imgur.com/WJ8EGO3

Yeah getting lots of errors with this client.. when quitting null pointer exceptions etc. Doesn't feel stable yet.
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March 04, 2014, 02:26:38 PM
 #40246

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.
Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

In order to have the NXT core directly interface with the BTC blockchain, we would need to put some bitcoind functionality into the NXT core. That would mean finding a Java implementation or porting bitcoind, and each and every update to bitcoind. So, it is not impossible, just impractical. By the time the new bitcoind version is ported to Java, a new one is probably just around the corner.

In addition to being impractical, doing a cross chain transaction for each transaction adds a lot of overhead and time, especially if somebody is actively trading. There is also no assurance that the trade will complete since it requires both parties to have fully funded account and to follow through with sending their side of the transaction.

The advantage of NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain, is that the deposit of BTC is automated and when it is traded in AE, there is a guarantee of payment. So while technically it might not be automated cross chain, it actually solves the problem of automatically converting NXT <-> BTC.

I am not the expert in the secret sharing methods for the atomic cross chain trades, so it might be possible to add to the NXTcore the required secret sharing logic that is needed for this. Then there would need to be a way for the two parties to come to agreement on price and we cannot use the AE, so that is essentially the same sort of thing, just different. After the two parties agree to a price, they would need to invoke some sort of semi-automated process where each one locally signs and broadcasts their half of the shared secret transaction. There is no assurance that both parties will fully satisfy the transaction and it could all just not happen if either of them bails out. Then assuming we have ported a subset of bitcoind into the NXTcore, it could do the rawtransaction secret sharing monitoring.

It just seems to me that the NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain solution is much closer to what users are expecting. It also has the advantage that people will be able to trade any crypto against any other using a decentralize AE. That will be a uniquely powerful advantage for NXT.

Which solution to automated crypto trading is your preference?

James

https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/

They say: "Be warned: This software is at an early development stage. You still need to patch it to achieve many use cases and you must have a good understanding of the Bitcoin protocol. If you lose money you have only yourself to blame!"

It is not clear how compatible they are with latest bitcoind, let alone the experimental one that is being released now.

I guess if we use it just for large transactions and really test that single use case, it would provide a useful dual escrow service. Still it seems like a lot of extra work to handle the large BTC trade and we certainly wont get support for any altcoins

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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March 04, 2014, 02:29:03 PM
 #40247

Unless the other block chains are getting downloaded and updates locally by miners on BOTH chains, that can neer happen. Just settle for minimal trust of a gateway with 100% transparency of in-out?
The plan is to have bitcoind, dogecoind, etc. all running on the gateway servers and all three (or more) that are involved in the transaction need to generate the exact same rawtransaction, down to every bit, before any withdrawals are approved. In order for this to happen, they have to all be on the same chain, which we presume to be the main chain if they are geographically separate

With all account balances reconciled after every block and all the gateways and however made clients (via nodecoin-qt) will provide near realtime detection of any problems. Trust, but verified many times.

I think if the gateways provide a 1:1 correspondence (publicly visible) of deposits to assets in AE (publicly visible), then we can directly trade any crypto asset against each other. With a small NXT API change to allow denominating trades in terms of a specified asset, people could directly trade AUR/BTC within NXT AE. There wont be any need to do complicated secrect publishing for each transaction. I think most people are trading more than one trade per day, if they are trading. Seems much more convenient to deposit what you want to sell, trade, withdraw what you got. Or you could just leave it in the community gateway multisig accts.

I really think we are a single API change away from being able to trade any crypto to any crypto. Just need to install all the bitcoind forks on the servers. We can have each set of three servers just multisig one bitcoind fork. The cold wallet multisig trustees would only need to run the wallets for the big money crypto, probably bitcoin and maybe a few others.

James



Trading any crypto against any other crypto can be a total mess. Well, maybe? Im asking. In such situation, the number of assets in AE can grow to the square of the number of crypto available in AE, while it grow linearly if every crypto are only list against NXT. Would not be simple to maintain the system if only list again NXT. This will make NXT the standard.

Maybe there is something I don'T understand.
We just need to change the trading API calls to be able to specify denominating the trade in terms of an assetID#, not in NXT. Then you can directly swap BTC for AUR, or prefabhomes for unicorns. Or BTC for unicorns.

No need to create the combo asset, just denominate the trade in the other asset.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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March 04, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
 #40248

Which solution to automated crypto trading is your preference?
Your solution needs trust for some third party gateway.
I prefer straigt solution.
But if there would be no progress in straigt atomic crosschain for several months and you will release slick and sexy "NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain" solution i may reconsider and propose another bounty for this (with yet not determined amount of NXT).
Thanks!

I am doing my best to reduce the trust required for the gateways. I think if we had 100 gateway servers, all doing peer review, along with thousands of nodecoin clients, then even though ultimately the gateway transaction is 2 of 3 multisig, it really has a lot of built in decentralization and minimal trust is required.

Maybe this qualifies for the extra 2 million NXT for extra features?

Anyway, I am going full speed ahead with the multigateway solution. It also happens to solve the NXTcash deployment problem. Basically with 100 gateways, it creates a mini-network of its own and since it only has to do a few things, we can harden it against wide open attacks. The 100 servers would act as guardians for the three servers that do the actual gateway money handling. Only the 100 guardian servers would even be allowed to communicate with the three gateways.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
mcjavar
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March 04, 2014, 02:43:00 PM
 #40249

Which solution to automated crypto trading is your preference?
Your solution needs trust for some third party gateway.
I prefer straigt solution.
But if there would be no progress in straigt atomic crosschain for several months and you will release slick and sexy "NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain" solution i may reconsider and propose another bounty for this (with yet not determined amount of NXT).
Thanks!

I am doing my best to reduce the trust required for the gateways. I think if we had 100 gateway servers, all doing peer review, along with thousands of nodecoin clients, then even though ultimately the gateway transaction is 2 of 3 multisig, it really has a lot of built in decentralization and minimal trust is required.

Maybe this qualifies for the extra 2 million NXT for extra features?

Anyway, I am going full speed ahead with the multigateway solution. It also happens to solve the NXTcash deployment problem. Basically with 100 gateways, it creates a mini-network of its own and since it only has to do a few things, we can harden it against wide open attacks. The 100 servers would act as guardians for the three servers that do the actual gateway money handling. Only the 100 guardian servers would even be allowed to communicate with the three gateways.

James

What about DDOS attacks?
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March 04, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
 #40250

BUMP

Speaking of newsletters…

Here is NXT Newsletter #4.
http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-4/

Read what you said a week ago - and an hour ago Wink

/apenzl

Following the advice of John Manglaviti, I've opened a separate NXT Newsletter thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=500009.new#new
Watch the new thread to get notifications. Or join the subscribers by adding your mail address @ http://nxter.org .

Gathering the info to help people from drowning in this thread seemed a little funny, when the newsletter announcements drowns in the thread themselves. Grin

/apenzl

[EDIT] Going to move that thread from the altcoin ann forum.  Roll Eyes I'll be back with another link…..

4747...888
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March 04, 2014, 03:00:27 PM
 #40251

Maybe this qualifies for the extra 2 million NXT for extra features?
Unlikely.
I consider your solution more costly in ifrastructure part but more simple to code.
My bounty is for code.
If i ever consider bounty for your code, it will not be more that my original bounty.
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March 04, 2014, 03:00:49 PM
 #40252

Which solution to automated crypto trading is your preference?
Your solution needs trust for some third party gateway.
I prefer straigt solution.
But if there would be no progress in straigt atomic crosschain for several months and you will release slick and sexy "NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain" solution i may reconsider and propose another bounty for this (with yet not determined amount of NXT).
Thanks!

I am doing my best to reduce the trust required for the gateways. I think if we had 100 gateway servers, all doing peer review, along with thousands of nodecoin clients, then even though ultimately the gateway transaction is 2 of 3 multisig, it really has a lot of built in decentralization and minimal trust is required.

Maybe this qualifies for the extra 2 million NXT for extra features?

Anyway, I am going full speed ahead with the multigateway solution. It also happens to solve the NXTcash deployment problem. Basically with 100 gateways, it creates a mini-network of its own and since it only has to do a few things, we can harden it against wide open attacks. The 100 servers would act as guardians for the three servers that do the actual gateway money handling. Only the 100 guardian servers would even be allowed to communicate with the three gateways.

James

What about DDOS attacks?
Against 100 servers?
The gateways are shielded by the 100. They will reject any TCP/IP connections that are not of the 100 guardians.
Certainly, if somebody really wanted to stop gateway activity,they could flood all 100 servers. But that would cause a delay in processing, no transactions would happen. I think that would be acceptable under such a massive Ddos scenario

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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March 04, 2014, 03:04:17 PM
 #40253

The TestNxt was arrived ?
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March 04, 2014, 03:07:30 PM
 #40254

Maybe this qualifies for the extra 2 million NXT for extra features?
Unlikely.
I consider your solution more costly in ifrastructure part but more simple to code.
My bounty is for code.
If i consider bounty for your code, it will not be more that my original bounty.
I understand. I was just talking about your original offer where it was 3 to 5 million.

Anyway, time is money and my multigateway solution is something that can get done a lot sooner than the alternative.
If NXT quadruples in value, then the infrastructure costs are negligible. In any case we need servers for the NXT network and I am already running the NXT core on the 100+ guardian servers, so they server double duty. Triple duty if you count NXTcash. Quadruple duty if you count nodecoin interfacing.

A hybrid hardware/software solution usually outperforms both the software only and hardware only solutions, maybe not in operating cost, but from an overall user experience and time to market.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
DrearyUrbanite
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March 04, 2014, 03:08:08 PM
 #40255


Done


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Bounty Thread


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ChuckOne
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March 04, 2014, 03:11:10 PM
 #40256

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.
Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

In order to have the NXT core directly interface with the BTC blockchain, we would need to put some bitcoind functionality into the NXT core. That would mean finding a Java implementation or porting bitcoind, and each and every update to bitcoind. So, it is not impossible, just impractical. By the time the new bitcoind version is ported to Java, a new one is probably just around the corner.

In addition to being impractical, doing a cross chain transaction for each transaction adds a lot of overhead and time, especially if somebody is actively trading. There is also no assurance that the trade will complete since it requires both parties to have fully funded account and to follow through with sending their side of the transaction.

The advantage of NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain, is that the deposit of BTC is automated and when it is traded in AE, there is a guarantee of payment. So while technically it might not be automated cross chain, it actually solves the problem of automatically converting NXT <-> BTC.

I am not the expert in the secret sharing methods for the atomic cross chain trades, so it might be possible to add to the NXTcore the required secret sharing logic that is needed for this. Then there would need to be a way for the two parties to come to agreement on price and we cannot use the AE, so that is essentially the same sort of thing, just different. After the two parties agree to a price, they would need to invoke some sort of semi-automated process where each one locally signs and broadcasts their half of the shared secret transaction. There is no assurance that both parties will fully satisfy the transaction and it could all just not happen if either of them bails out. Then assuming we have ported a subset of bitcoind into the NXTcore, it could do the rawtransaction secret sharing monitoring.

It just seems to me that the NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain solution is much closer to what users are expecting. It also has the advantage that people will be able to trade any crypto against any other using a decentralize AE. That will be a uniquely powerful advantage for NXT.

Which solution to automated crypto trading is your preference?

James

https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/

Please, could we move the discussion of CCT to here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=498898.new#new ?
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March 04, 2014, 03:15:52 PM
 #40257


Only only NXT




_______________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________
Next Coin Lite - Fair Distribution
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March 04, 2014, 03:17:53 PM
 #40258


Yes. Cheesy But don't cheat.
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March 04, 2014, 03:19:30 PM
 #40259

The TestNxt was arrived ?

jep, thx

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March 04, 2014, 03:20:24 PM
 #40260

Anyone wondering about POST:  Yes its possible, but not required unless you configure nxt.properties to make it required for calls that use passphrase. Unlike HTTP/HTTPS, both POST and GET are simultaneously supported.

curl -s -k -X POST --data "requestType=getAccountId&secretPhrase=xxx" https://HOSTNAME:7876/nxt | python -m json.tool

the -s makes curl act silent, -k makes it ignore cert warnings if you are using SSL and there is a cert issue, and "| python -m json.tool" is optional for nice formatting.

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