NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[landomata]

Once we figure out how to get 10 second block times

10 second block times would be great.

Have you read this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458036.msg5051186#msg5051186

Aye

[mcjavar]

CfB, is this the case? Was this part of your contract with BCNext?

I know that Cunicula proposed to use ur scheme but BCNext went another way and there was a reason for that.

What was the reason?
Transparency please...
otherwise it is a very good example why people get frustrated: they try to improve things, but then you say that things are done the way they are done, because BCNext decided to do it that way. But why?

U'll get the reason if u dive deeper. I won't reveal it, sorry.

Perfect... Thanks.
How do you expect the community to take over, when you hold back informations...?

[CIYAM]

What is your feeling about my two-tiered fixed time method?

K.I.S.S.

Agreed.

[landomata]

When Internet becomes faster we will switch to a smaller gap between blocks (10 seconds, for example)."

When being the key word here - it isn't fast enough at the moment unless you think the internet is just your own country.

Evolution...3 years doesn't seem so long.

[CIYAM]

So 1,000 TPS is fantasy land too?

At the moment most certainly (there is a hard-coded limit to 250 txs per block).

How many transactions you can fit in a block doesn't necessary equal TPS (you could work out some sort of average figure I guess but again there is simply no guarantee about such things).

A lot of figures people like to use are not to do with "reality" but instead to do with "marketing".

[CIYAM]

Evolution...3 years doesn't seem so long.

I've been in China more than 7 years now and actually access to numerous overseas websites (even non-https) has got *slower* over that time (and I not talking about anything that would be considered "controversial" here).

[wesleyh]

Evolution...3 years doesn't seem so long.

I've been in China more than 7 years now and actually access to numerous overseas websites (even non-https) has got *slower* over that time (and I not talking about anything that would be considered "controversial" here).

No offense, but China shouldn't be considered the standard :-) Speeds are increasing everywhere else.

[opticalcarrier]

Is it safe to unlock account and forge on public node? Even that this node is my personal?

It's not recommended.

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/FAQ#Are_there_public_servers_I_can_use_for_forging.3F

where does this public node reside at?  if not a VPS and only you have physical access to it (its not in a datacenter, etc) then it should be safe

[rickyjames]

Since I'm not going to achieve psychic mindlock today with CfB and BCNext to get the information dump we all need, I'm gonna change the subject.  (Squirrel!!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg )

There is a new coin on coinmarketcap.com just below NXT in market cap and that is Auroracoin.  If you don't know about Auroracoin, you should take a minute and read some about it.  It is a litecoin clone that is about to become an official government currency for Iceland.  Without going into gory details, the banking system in Iceland has had huge problems over the past few years and the government is desperate to engineer a reboot.  Thus Auroracoin.  It has a 50% pre-mine that is being held in trust and will be given out to the people of Iceland in 25 days.  They are encouraging activity to get tools in the hands of Icelanders to allow their easy use of this new currency.  


http://www.auroracoin.org/

http://theconversation.com/free-cash-for-iceland-but-it-pays-to-keep-cool-about-auroracoin-23061

The 64,000 NXT question is - could NXT somehow get on this bandwagon and become part of the Auroracoin management system via AE?  If we can get EVERYBODY IN ICELAND (population 300,000) owning NXT as a part of helping to manage their new Auroracoins...

How could we help them? What is the next step? Should we contact the developers offering them our support?

James, how should we proceed?

I am already proceeding and have been for a while. These market developments are not a surprise to me.

I can add auroracoin to the automated gateway, so anybody with aurora coin just establishes their NXT acct <-> Aurora addresses. Then we essentially extend AE to include the aurora wallet. This is why I am working so hard on the automated gateway. It instantly leverages whatever we connect to it with AE powers. Also AE gets extended with whatever is added.

Once we support the dozens of worthy altcoins, AE will be directly tied to all those wallets. Just like coinbase is linked to a checking acct. Once inside AE, there are all the crypto exchange possibilities, but more importantly real world trading, like POPPP's farm.

That is why I am developing the NXTcoins development kit that allows people to "configure" their NXT asset with coin type of properties. It is one thing to issue a bunch of Unicorn asset, another to properly manage the inventory, especially if it is tied into events outside the NXT blockchain. The gateway links offchain activities directly into AE.

Once we figure out how to get 10 second block times and make sure the cellphone apps handle QR codes, people can transact for real world goods in iceland using their cellphones. Now Aurora coin is not actually the official currency of iceland, more of a people's movement, but once we have 10 second block times, NXT hubs we can seriously start recruiting entire small countries to issue their currency as an AE asset.

James

You are correct (and I was wrong) that Auroracoin is not an official Icelandic Government project or currency.  It is being promoted by an Icelandic entrepreneur named Baldur Friggjar Odinsson whose name is at the bottom of some of the Auroracoin.org text.  He is almost certainly goes by "balduro" here on bitcointalk - that is the moderator of the Auroracoin [ANN] thread and its <sniff> mere 31 pages since Feb 2.  It's a pretty good bet that Baldur himself is set up somehow to mine a good chunk of the other half of Auroracoins after the first half are "airdropped" to his people on March 25. (To non-Americans, the whole "airdrop" thing is kind of a joke because our former Central Banker Ben Bernanke said in a speech that it was so important to get cash in the hand of people to spend and break the ongoing  recession that he would drop it from helicopters, leading to his nickname of "Helicopter Ben").

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=446062.0

One angle that is very important here, I think, is inflationary vs. non-inflationary coins.  Iceland has been absolutely clobbered by inflation and that is at the heart of their problem in many ways.  Auroracoin is a litecoin clone and so is inflationary.    NXT is PoS and non-inflationary.  Somehow, if they're going to take a mass national plunge into cryptocurrency in the next month,  you could probably get a lot of Icelanders to prefer dealing with NXT rather than Auroracoin because if it's one thing they understand, it's dilution of their currency.  Iceland is a small, isolated group of people.  If we can't get NXT penetration into a group like that, we're never gonna make it in the big wide world with a hundred other altcoins all trying to get attention in their own way...

I say let's give Baldur a round of sincere hearty applause.  The guy runs a thread and coin pretty much by himself with only 31 pages, and yet comes up with a cryptocurrency that (1) is just behind NXT in market cap on coinmarketcap.com and (2) is about to be the first "official" cryptocoin for an entire nation.   We've got 5000+ members and 2000+ pages and have been working on establishing ourselves 3-4 times longer than he has, and we're just barely ahead of one guy...

Anyway, I think if we don't reach out to make contact with Baldur and somehow try to do a cooperative effort with him at NXT, I think we will be missing out on a big, big opportunity.  Just thinking out loud and trying to spark some brainstorming here....

Hell, we've got whales that could give 3 NXT to everybody in Iceland for the same price Klee made a donation to a brain fund.  No disrespect to Klee, who did a WONDERFUL thing with a science angle to boot, but if an NXT whale matched Baldur's attempt to get everybody in Iceland a cryptocoin start with NXT to get out of their rut, which event do you think the media would cover more?  And which event would do more to reinforce the reputation of NXT as a premier pioneer in the cryptocurrency world?

I tell ya, we gotta figure out some way of connecting with Baudur ASAP for our mutual best interests...




 

[redsn0w]

in what cases would you use broadcastTransaction API?  Is it only for light-clients to use to send to a full node?  I thought we were saying before that if some forger never picked up your transaction you could use broadcastTransaction to resend it, but that requires full bytes of the transaction, and you cannot obtain that unless you pull it from the blockchain, which means it is already *in* the blockchain.

I dont understand?


And can someone get me some testnxt please? 16155265664111966451      

Some TestNXT to 15004211867702614232 Please!

Sent 5K TestNxt , enjoy it .

[CIYAM]

No offense, but China shouldn't be considered the standard :-) Speeds are increasing everywhere else.

None taken (it sucks using internet here) but China will be the world's biggest economy within a few years.

So you can't really ignore it when you are considering anything economical at all.

[mcjavar]

CfB, is this the case? Was this part of your contract with BCNext?

I know that Cunicula proposed to use ur scheme but BCNext went another way and there was a reason for that.

What was the reason?
Transparency please...
otherwise it is a very good example why people get frustrated: they try to improve things, but then you say that things are done the way they are done, because BCNext decided to do it that way. But why?

U'll get the reason if u dive deeper. I won't reveal it, sorry.

Perfect... Thanks.
How do you expect the community to take over, when you hold back informations...?

It seems that I am the only one having issues with this.
So maybe it's the best to lean back and watch as none of my initiatives have gthered attention so far.

[marcus03]

CfB, is this the case? Was this part of your contract with BCNext?

I know that Cunicula proposed to use ur scheme but BCNext went another way and there was a reason for that.

What was the reason?
Transparency please...
otherwise it is a very good example why people get frustrated: they try to improve things, but then you say that things are done the way they are done, because BCNext decided to do it that way. But why?

U'll get the reason if u dive deeper. I won't reveal it, sorry.

I am seriously considering taking a break from NXT until April.

[rickyjames]

CfB, is this the case? Was this part of your contract with BCNext?

I know that Cunicula proposed to use ur scheme but BCNext went another way and there was a reason for that.

What was the reason?
Transparency please...
otherwise it is a very good example why people get frustrated: they try to improve things, but then you say that things are done the way they are done, because BCNext decided to do it that way. But why?

U'll get the reason if u dive deeper. I won't reveal it, sorry.

Perfect... Thanks.
How do you expect the community to take over, when you hold back informations...?

It seems that I am the only one having issues with this.
So maybe it's the best to lean back and watch as none of my initiatives have gthered attention so far.

No.  I am right there with you and so are many others.  But leaning back to watch what happens next seems to be the only "action" we can take until the source code is released and becomes OURS, not THEIRS.

[ChuckOne]

Once we figure out how to get 10 second block times

10 second block times would be great.

Have you read this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458036.msg5051186#msg5051186

Aye

Then, you'll understand.

[jl777]

I think if we had two phases of block creation where new transactions are queued for the next block while the hallmark servers achieve consensus on the previously queued transactions and then broadcast to all the non-hallmarked nodes, then 10 seconds is very achievable.

And once again - James goes of into "fantasy land" where real things like "network latency" don't exist.

You were told the reasons - if you just want to ignore them that's fine - but you can't change facts with statements.

Why do you keep insulting me? What are the facts? You throw out "network latency" and 300 millisecond hop time. Please use numbers. How many network hops do we need to assume for reaching consensus on a block? Is 30 not enough?

I have proposed a design that I feel addresses your parameters, but you do not even seem to try to understand it before dismissing it as fantasy. Maybe I didn't clarify how I see it working....

Ignoring method for establishing cutoff, the fundamental problem is that we are bandwidth limited. So we have nodes that are very slow that want to submit transactions and also make sure all nodes come to the same answer most of the time.

To solve this, I am suggesting separating block creation into three phases, an uplink phase, a consensus phase and a downlink phase. [Ultimately, uplink for one block could be overlapped with downlink for previous block]

All nodes uplink to hallmarked servers. Hallmarked servers reach consensus using high speed connections. All the nodes get sent or ask for block from multiple hallmarked servers to make sure Evil Bob isnt lurking. Any discrepancies during downlink phase is broadcast far and wide to immediately punish Evil Bob. I know a lot of details are lacking, I am talking about theoretical possibilities and ignoring the difficulty of implementation.

I estimate 100+ hallmarked servers can reach consensus in about 3 seconds. My evidence for this is the ripple network. If ripple can do it, so can NXT.

I estimate the downlink phase to take about double or triple the consensus phase, so total time 9 to 12 seconds.

Please dont insult me by words, give me numbers to refute my model

James

[poofknuckle]

Texas Bitcoin Conference NXT Marketing Brochure

I would like to thank bitcoinpaul, w4llace, LiQio, EvilDave and especially mvag for their prompt and generous assistance in revising my primitive, clumsy attempt at an NXT marketing brochure into this thing of beauty:

http://nxt.sx/images/resources/NXT-Brochure-4.pdf

Small typo: It's Johns Hopkins University, not John Hopkins.

[Uniqueorn]

No offense, but China shouldn't be considered the standard :-) Speeds are increasing everywhere else.

None taken (it sucks using internet here) but China will be the world's biggest economy within a few years.

So you can't really ignore it when you are considering anything economical at all.

Indeed. China, India, South-America and Africa is where the real money is at.
These are the markets we want more than anything. This is the 550~ billion dollar remittance market. Currently western union and similar companies hold monopoly on this with 12.5% fees.
TWELVE POINT MOTHERFUCKING FIVE!

NXT would be a godsend to them and they can forge more NXT with a raspberry pi with solar power in these impoverished nations too.

NXT can truly change the world

[jl777]

What is your feeling about my two-tiered fixed time method?

K.I.S.S.

I proposed a simpler method, but CIYAM said it was impossible.
Do you think using current method (without the random factor) we can simply reduce the time between blocks to 50 seconds? 30 seconds? 10 seconds?

James

[CIYAM]

Why do you keep insulting me? What are the facts?

I am not insulting you (sorry if you were offended) but you in fact have only posted your opinions (things like the "ping" time I posted is a *fact* at least at the time that I checked which was actually *while* I was writing my reply).

I know you are very keen to be able to have Nxt "sing and dance" but I don't make the rules about how the internet works or how the GCF works or many other such things.

I do know that the reason why many silly alt clones with fast confirmation times have big fork problems though which is what I've been talking about (they naively ignored things like "network latency" to try and promote their "fast confirmation times").