NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[fmiboy]

Suggested NIP (Nxt Improvement Proposal)

Adding "meta information" to Arbitrary Messages.

As AMs are going to become a key communication tool for various other parts of the Nxt system (including NIPs themselves) I suggest that we decide on one of the two ways of providing minimal "meta" information for AMs.

This could be done in the following 2 ways:

1) Encode them as URIs (making it simple for web apps to handle different kinds of things).

...

+1
1) or they could even hold small scripts

[bitcoinpaul]

Not sure how one guy would be in charge of three INDEPENDENT gateways. This is what I have been saying. We need to find three different, independent, separate, not the same guy, gateway operators.

It is more a market / marketing thing than a technical, if you understand what I mean. In the end, the three guys make a secret deal to become evil in one year if everything is established and running.

What if the "three" were Service Providers?    

Of course you can develop this idea to infinity. But let's keep it appropriate (what ever this means)

I think different Nxt-Assets from the same underlying Asset from different Gateways would be interesting. Different Gateways will naturally emerge, so we shouldn't fight it but instead maybe pave the way for proper implementations by providing guidance, papers, how-tos?

[CIYAM]

Now that I've thought about it a bit further I think I would actually prefer that we have a fixed prefix (say 16/32/64 bit) that indicates a message type with type #0 being raw data, type #1 being UTF-8 text and type #3 being URI (and maybe we could consider using the alias system to effectively map each of these type numbers to an internet media type http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml).

Although it's a little ugly I've realised that otherwise ATs are going to require far more complicated code (and we don't want to force that).

(that should make James happy I think)

[pandaisftw]

So it's taken me literally 3-4 days to fully catch up to the thread. There's so much going on!

As for closing this thread, I vote no as well. This thread, as others have mentioned, is basically a huge pot of ideas - and great ideas are born from this chaotic mess. It allows people to be exposed to all kinds of viewpoints, even if they do not like them or are simply not interested. Fragmenting the community would lead to the "echo-chamber" effect, where you only involve yourself with communities that agree with your viewpoint, thus you never really are motivated to understand other people's views and ideas. It was really entertaining watching James suggesting all kinds of crazy ideas (and actually implementing a working automated gateway!) and CIYAM desperately trying to calm James down. But this is what we need, community members willing to test what is impossible and what is possible. IMO, it wouldn't be the same without this thread.

As Damelon said, there really is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes outside of this thread. One of the reasons why I haven't been able to keep up with this thread is because I have been spending a good portion of my free time working on projects involving NXT. (One of them being NXTopia. We're working on it, don't worry!)

It really is interesting to see familiar names in all kinds of investments and projects involving NXT, and I'm honestly really excited about the developments we will see in the coming months.

Also, a big thanks to CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime for your work, keep it up!

Pandaisftw

PS: I'm a little drunk.

[bitcoinpaul]

Imagine trading subprime mortgages in NXTopia. OMG

[l8orre]

Ok cfb now that source dis released, what was the fatal injected flaw, and how couldyou have killed it in under a day

Will be disclosed after the 3rd of April.

Hey CfB - has the testnet been restarted on 0.8.3

If so, please give me hint regwarding the GET - POST settings, I seem to not have the right ones, because I get a  <Response [200]> ...

Thanks,
l8orre

[redsn0w]

Ok cfb now that source dis released, what was the fatal injected flaw, and how couldyou have killed it in under a day

Will be disclosed after the 3rd of April.

Hey CfB - has the testnet been restarted on 0.8.3

If so, please give me hint regwarding the GET - POST settings, I seem to not have the right ones, because I get a  <Response [200]> ...

Thanks,
l8orre

Hi , read this documents :

https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875/doc/

[swartzfeger]

Not sure how one guy would be in charge of three INDEPENDENT gateways. This is what I have been saying. We need to find three different, independent, separate, not the same guy, gateway operators.

All of these gateways issue the SAME asset. This is possible due to the shared multisig acct. All three independent gateways share a single multisig acct, but it takes two to make a withdrawal. No single gateway owns or controls the customer deposits.

I have written and described how this works many times. Maybe it would help if one of our graphics guys made a nice easy to understand chart?

James

Quoted for emphasis. Link?

What's the initial investment -- RPi, Walmart PC, blade server? Administrative workload?

I'm interested. My *nix isn't industrial strength, but I can get a LAMP box setup in an afternoon.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ok cfb now that source dis released, what was the fatal injected flaw, and how couldyou have killed it in under a day

Will be disclosed after the 3rd of April.

Hey CfB - has the testnet been restarted on 0.8.3

If so, please give me hint regwarding the GET - POST settings, I seem to not have the right ones, because I get a  <Response [200]> ...

Thanks,
l8orre

I'm not familiar enough with the changes in 0.8.x. Still catching Jean-Luc's code.

[salsacz]

lyynx: so if Ethereum is Oil, Bitcoin is Gold, Nxt should be... water?

[pinarello]

Hi guys

Congratulations with NXT! Really great job of you all!

I made a video why I invested half my bitcoins into NXT. Hope u like it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ruYAxKeWxnM


(I'm an early investor in Bitcoin, see all my video's here: http://www.youtube.com/user/Marcdemesel/videos?shelf_id=1&view=0&sort=dd)

Hi Marc,

I see you are an investor, I think you can be of great help to put NXT in the picture, in the investorworld!

great video!

please go here to recieve a bounty for it!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412243.msg4465984#msg4465984

[landomata]

   Looks great . I have joined in .
   But I have a question, can the investor transfer their shares with price to other people ?

1) Do you mean sell them on the ASSET EXCHANGE?

2) You could always transfer your assets to another account if you like.

[Uniqueorn]

lyynx: so if Ethereum is Oil, Bitcoin is Gold, Nxt should be... water?

I don't think NXT should be compared to anything really, it's something completely new.
Also I don't see how Ethereum is gold, they wont be up and operating until 6~ months and by then, unless NXT fuck up completely, we should already have the market they are aiming at.

[bitcoinpaul]

I think different Nxt-Assets from the same underlying Asset from different Gateways would be interesting. Different Gateways will naturally emerge, so we shouldn't fight it but instead maybe pave the way for proper implementations by providing guidance, papers, how-tos?

In simpler terms, you might think of trading different assets of the same underlying asset from different gateways like trading on different exchanges (New York, Frankfurt, Tokio, ...). I know, this is not a 100% accurate analogy, but you get the point.

[igmaca]

look at this link I think can help you understand contracts ethereum  

http://www.projectactus.org/
https://web.stevens.edu/hfslwiki/index.php?title=ACTUS

[alxx77]

I think different Nxt-Assets from the same underlying Asset from different Gateways would be interesting. Different Gateways will naturally emerge, so we shouldn't fight it but instead maybe pave the way for proper implementations by providing guidance, papers, how-tos?

In simpler terms, you might think of trading different assets of the same underlying asset from different gateways like trading on different exchanges (New York, Frankfurt, Tokio, ...). I know, this is not a 100% accurate analogy, but you get the point.

So the gateways would have to trust each other...? 

[bitcoinpaul]

I think different Nxt-Assets from the same underlying Asset from different Gateways would be interesting. Different Gateways will naturally emerge, so we shouldn't fight it but instead maybe pave the way for proper implementations by providing guidance, papers, how-tos?

In simpler terms, you might think of trading different assets of the same underlying asset from different gateways like trading on different exchanges (New York, Frankfurt, Tokio, ...). I know, this is not a 100% accurate analogy, but you get the point.

So the gateways would have to trust each other...? 

It seems the analogy is confusing.

[bitcoinpaul]

Hi guys

Congratulations with NXT! Really great job of you all!

I made a video why I invested half my bitcoins into NXT. Hope u like it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ruYAxKeWxnM


(I'm an early investor in Bitcoin, see all my video's here: http://www.youtube.com/user/Marcdemesel/videos?shelf_id=1&view=0&sort=dd)

This is an extraordinary video. Great content!

@marc: Keep in mind that we are probably 90% attack secure, not only 51%, with the latest TF algo ideas. Take this into your calculation and Nxt is some more magnitudes safer (in relation to btc) than as you thought it is already.

@all: Important point regarding marketing. We need to market this product the right way, otherwise it is the betamax of crypto currencies. And market it strong.

[ChuckOne]

I was reviewing BCNext's plan as told by CfB here (http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/BCNext%27s_Plan), and again was pulled up short by this line.

"Selfish miners (those who only mine to earn fees) should be "removed" from the system. They are not interested in the success of Nxt and only want to cash out."

Have others already talked about what this might mean? How could/should such removal occur? There is a technical question about how to determine if an account is linked to productive, supportive assets, services, etc. And there is a followup question about how such removal occurs.

This is relevant to the fee discussion that has generated some heat here. But I am more interested in the philosophical question: what does it mean to support NXT? Does it only mean to create/buy/sell assets, second-order currencies, etc.?

(If I've missed the discussion, just point me to a post or thread, please. I didn't see this particular "removal" line addressed in the other forums.)

Basically, this discussion has been had over the last week.
It's immediately linked to forging payouts.

"Selfish" (although some, including me, prefer the term "passive") forgers will, if they are not rewarded more than "break even" for running a node, in all probability not run a node if they have other motives than earning "free Nxt".

"Active" forgers, ie. forgers that run a service, would do so, because it allows them to run their service, and cut out operating costs.

So, passive forgers would not be "cut out" in any active sense. It would just not be attractive in their terms to do so.

However, this discussion is still ongoing. James (jl777) for instance, has proposed methods for these people to earn coins by aggregating CPU power.

I am not certain that it's over. The selfish-mining problem is still present in the current implementation and we have two different approaches to tackle it:
 - penalty
 - limiting forging power of an account

[ChuckOne]

Suggested NIP (Nxt Improvement Proposal)

Adding "meta information" to Arbitrary Messages.

As AMs are going to become a key communication tool for various other parts of the Nxt system (including NIPs themselves) I suggest that we decide on one of the two ways of providing minimal "meta" information for AMs.

This could be done in the following 2 ways:

1) Encode them as URIs (making it simple for web apps to handle different kinds of things).

or

2) Use the first x bits of the AM to indicate the type.

The advantage of 1 is the simplicity for web apps (i.e. no coding necessary) and the advantage of 2 is size (we only have 1000 bytes for an AM currently).

Which way we go is up to the community - but whichever way I would like to see then an NIP AM (which might just contain the hash of an NIP document - the document itself could be posted on forums or wherever else).

By having such information your "inbox" could automatically place messages in different folders and could also perhaps sound an "alert" according to the AM type received (e.g. we might expect to also have an "alert" AM a bit like Bitcoin alerts).

What happens if the URI becomes unavailable?