NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Anon136]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

[Wh1teKn1ght]

why such the drop in NXT? Any guess as to when it will hit the .10 mark again?

[xibeijan]

why such the drop in NXT? Any guess as to when it will hit the .10 mark again?

Once the decentralised exchange is launched.  It will be the fast, energy efficient and have a GUI.

BTW devs. How's progress going with it?  What's the ETA on the alpha/beta launch?

[ChuckOne]

I am not certain I understand all of this because I haven't got into the source and the algo.

But what is the problem with the source?

Isn't it just a programming error that x-h is negative so it should be fixed upfront?

if you're asking if negative input is legal, yes it is.

To simplify it, it's similar to how modulo operates in C.
If you do:

Code:

int x = (1-3) % 5;    // -2 % 5

you'll get "-2" as a result, but what you're actually interested in is:

Code:

int x = (1-3 + group_order) % 5;    // (-2 + 5) % 5  = 3 % 5 == 5

group_order == 5, and you'll get 3 as a result...

Yes, I know.

So, the problem is that -2 or 3 is processed further and we are not certain if -2 behaves differently than 3 does. That is certainly a problem.

EDIT: we are not certain if the 3 resulting from a -2 is process the same way as we would give it another try.

[ChuckOne]

why such the drop in NXT? Any guess as to when it will hit the .10 mark again?

Who cares about the price? It's about the ecosystem and the technology right now.

[pinarello]

why such the drop in NXT? Any guess as to when it will hit the .10 mark again?

Once the decentralised exchange is launched.  It will be the fast, energy efficient and have a GUI.

BTW devs. How's progress going with it?  What's the ETA on the alpha/beta launch?

Thought nexern was saying client by end of march?

[ChuckOne]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

I see what you mean. Commodity-backed money. Hmm, will history repeat itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgohO4E

[rriky92]

For raspi (model B) use settings:



       SNl    0:34 /usr/bin/java -Xms128m -Xmx756m -jar start.jar STOP.PORT=7873 S

works fine - a common error I made usually is to set it at 450/450 or so - that limits the heap space to 450MB, which is NOT enough!

Xms128 is the MINIMUM heap size,

Xmx756 is the MAXIMUM, presto!

out of memory for me with 756!(i'm running a node and also bfgminer)

[jl777]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

Ripple calls it IOU, not sure if it makes sense to use the same terminology to reduce general confusion level.

By the way, the community has made it loud and clear that it does NOT want my ideas unless I have a totally vetted and complete solution. Since I was posting ideas to help get them vetted and complete, that means I do not see how I can directly help the NXT community at this point. It seems there is no perceived value in coming up with ideas, even ones that allow us to compete effectively with etherium, and no perceived value in being a project manager.

I put so much time and effort into NXT, it is disappointing to be rejected like this. How would you feel if your ideas were compared to a Ddos attack and then that was +1 many times?? Sorry but I am not Dr Evil, I am not smart enough to solve the tech issues on my own. THAT is why I posted my unfinished ideas, to get help. Anybody can say it is impossible forget about it. I was hoping someone would say maybe there was a way to reduce the problem to a simpler form.

Anyway, I dont want to overstay my welcome so I will limit myself to a most one post per day. I hope that wont be too much of a bother for people to read. i will continue administering the NXTcommunityfund. Once the three committees are fully up and running and if the main funders of the NXTcommunityfund want me to, I will disburse the NXTcommunityfund (minus some amount for rainy day fund) to the three committees or hand over trusteeship to whomever they choose. I dont want anybody to feel like I have so much centralized power that I might actually hurt NXT.

If anybody has actually started on any NXTcommunityfund bounties, let me know. I know of only the tipbot project and acceptance of NXT on websites project. Unless somebody posts that they are actively working on any of the other bounties, I think that it is best that they all be canceled. Wouldnt want to distract anybody from doing things that are actually important by working on my bounties that everybody feels is worthless.

Oh, rickyjames, please pay Zahlen and salsacz 500 NXT. I believe that concludes any current pending NXTcommunityfund business.

I have to pay my bills and at this point I have to either work on my ideas by myself since nobody will constructively help me or accept some external projects that I have been offered.

James

Edit: I hope people here will think I at least did some good by helping getting the unclaimed NXT released to the three committees. I feel that was a big positive, but then again I am probably wrong about that too.

[utopianfuture]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

What you do essentially is to open a shop to sell silver.

[gimre]

if you're asking if negative input is legal, yes it is.

To simplify it, it's similar to how modulo operates in C.
If you do:

Code:

int x = (1-3) % 5;    // -2 % 5

you'll get "-2" as a result, but what you're actually interested in is:

Code:

int x = (1-3 + group_order) % 5;    // (-2 + 5) % 5  = 3 % 5 == 5

group_order == 5, and you'll get 3 as a result...

Yes, I know.

So, the problem is that -2 or 3 is processed further and we are not certain if -2 behaves differently than 3 does. That is certainly a problem.

EDIT: we are not certain if the 3 resulting from a -2 is process the same way as we would give it another try.

"-2" is passed as input to verify() which was expecting to see "3" not "-2"...

[Ola]

Seems XCP is indirectly competing for the 1^st spot, to be out buy Friday as one of their front end devs posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430998.msg5031563#msg5031563

First to market: network effect is very important especially in the wake of the mtgox fiasco, but I don't think a week's difference will make xcp come out on top, especially when we have a marketing budget to increase mindshare. The XCP strategy has been basically "we built it they ill come" until recently. They now have a marketing bounty, still nothing compared to NXT'S.

We r not competitors, IMO. XCP works with BTC, our AE works with NXT.

maybe not completely but for popularity and IPO-ing companies we most definitely are...these companies have to decide which platform they want to use to issue tokens which customers can investing in..And they are part of the seed to spur the demand for the platform currency.

The market potential is huge, but at them same time no platform has any proven history as well as stability. It is too premature to talk about network effect. The network effect will only start when you have the exchange running stable for at least 6 months with at least 10-15 real, tradable assets on it.

Someone making the asset exchange right 6 months from now could easily beat both NXT and XCP. So the door is still wide open and it is important for NXT to do it right first not that important to get to the market 1 or 2 weeks first. Between the two, I prefer NXT platform and 1 week to the market first makes no difference. I have some XCP too, but so far I have not even have time to have Bitcoin QT up and running.

market potential is def huge, and these innovation have no track record no doubt..But the nature of this industry is an experimental one...most people involved in bitcoin are taking an extreme risk and would not suddenly become risk adverse with a new technology that can potentially improve their situations. it might be a bit early to talk about network effect in the sense of a brand new product, but what we have here is an entirely new paradigm, and the end result that cannot be predicted for sure..

Lets talk about facts: What we know is that there are several companies waiting in the wings till something like the nxt or xcp AE becomes available..these companies had been dislodged from centralized issuances ie bitfunder, gbsex .et.c and have resulted to manually handling dividends. So I doubt the lot of them will hesitate to use any utility that makes their life easier as soon as it is out...

Also each of these companies will act as evangelist for whatever platform of their choosing promoting investment opportunities to the public, then subsequently referencing the platform (nxt) for their customers to be able to get involved. This will be an indirect promotion for NXT or XCP depending on who they are with.

Its is true that ethuereum for example could come out and beat Nxt by the end of the year , but in my own opinion for that to happen Ethereum has to come up with even more features that nxt hasn't already countered...From Nexern's hints I believe that we can already provide what ethuereum has to offer and more...Just look at bitcoin and litecoin, aside from the infrastructure bitcoin already has isn't litecoin or even ripple a better form of payment in terms of speed?

so I agree that we must have a better product before launch, but not with your statement that it is premature to assume the possibility of  a network effect earlier on in the game...Your point speculates as to weather there will be any valuable companies spurring this growth...We know there are definitely alot of companies waiting to take advantage....It a new day, there is a definite demand and no way to tell for sure the end result....end rant

[freigeist]

I see what you mean. Commodity-backed money. Hmm, will history repeat itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgohO4E

The money should be backed by commodity and not the way is now.
The commodity is limited, planet earth is limited resources on the planet are limited
there is no space for infinite growth in economy.
Now the money is not backed by anything or only by empty promises in future.
We don't know the future therefore we should not believe in future promises.
Current economic model is detached from nature it does not follow the nature cycles
and will bring us do destruction.
Check the signature to learn more.

[iruu]

I give 99% that fix of Curve25519 is safe, but the rest 1% doesn't let me to use the fix coz this part is the most critical part of Nxt. So without a formal proof I'll stick to loop inside Crypto.sign.

Last one from me:
There's nothing to prove, math stays the same, it's the implementation that's wrong not the math,.
All the math is already in the file in the comments, those comments were made by this "xmath" dude from sci.crypt (I assume this is Matthijs van Duin).

But ok, I can understand, that you're afraid of such change.

Code:

		if ((v[31] & 0x80) != 0)
		{
			mula_small(v, v , 0, ORDER, 32, 1);
		}

Don't do this. The time required to run the code should NEVER depend on input data. This makes timing attacks possible (depending how to the methods are used).
If this is fixed it should be incorporated into main client.

[salsacz]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

Ripple calls it IOU, not sure if it makes sense to use the same terminology to reduce general confusion level.

By the way, the community has made it loud and clear that it does NOT want my ideas unless I have a totally vetted and complete solution. Since I was posting ideas to help get them vetted and complete, that means I do not see how I can directly help the NXT community at this point. It seems there is no perceived value in coming up with ideas, even ones that allow us to compete effectively with etherium, and no perceived value in being a project manager.

I put so much time and effort into NXT, it is disappointing to be rejected like this. How would you feel if your ideas were compared to a Ddos attack and then that was +1 many times?? Sorry but I am not Dr Evil, I am not smart enough to solve the tech issues on my own. THAT is why I posted my unfinished ideas, to get help. Anybody can say it is impossible forget about it. I was hoping someone would say maybe there was a way to reduce the problem to a simpler form.

Anyway, I dont want to overstay my welcome so I will limit myself to a most one post per day. I hope that wont be too much of a bother for people to read. i will continue administering the NXTcommunityfund. Once the three committees are fully up and running and if the main funders of the NXTcommunityfund want me to, I will disburse the NXTcommunityfund (minus some amount for rainy day fund) to the three committees or hand over trusteeship to whomever they choose. I dont want anybody to feel like I have so much centralized power that I might actually hurt NXT.

If anybody has actually started on any NXTcommunityfund bounties, let me know. I know of only the tipbot project and acceptance of NXT on websites project. Unless somebody posts that they are actively working on any of the other bounties, I think that it is best that they all be canceled. Wouldnt want to distract anybody from doing things that are actually important by working on my bounties that everybody feels is worthless.

Oh, rickyjames, please pay Zahlen and salsacz 500 NXT. I believe that concludes any current pending NXTcommunityfund business.

I have to pay my bills and at this point I have to either work on my ideas by myself since nobody will constructively help me or accept some external projects that I have been offered.

James

Edit: I hope people here will think I at least did some good by helping getting the unclaimed NXT released to the three committees. I feel that was a big positive, but then again I am probably wrong about that too.

In a week I will provide you a good platform for your ideas, you just have to wait

[Ola]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

Ripple calls it IOU, not sure if it makes sense to use the same terminology to reduce general confusion level.

By the way, the community has made it loud and clear that it does NOT want my ideas unless I have a totally vetted and complete solution. Since I was posting ideas to help get them vetted and complete, that means I do not see how I can directly help the NXT community at this point. It seems there is no perceived value in coming up with ideas, even ones that allow us to compete effectively with etherium, and no perceived value in being a project manager.

I put so much time and effort into NXT, it is disappointing to be rejected like this. How would you feel if your ideas were compared to a Ddos attack and then that was +1 many times?? Sorry but I am not Dr Evil, I am not smart enough to solve the tech issues on my own. THAT is why I posted my unfinished ideas, to get help. Anybody can say it is impossible forget about it. I was hoping someone would say maybe there was a way to reduce the problem to a simpler form.

Anyway, I dont want to overstay my welcome so I will limit myself to a most one post per day. I hope that wont be too much of a bother for people to read. i will continue administering the NXTcommunityfund. Once the three committees are fully up and running and if the main funders of the NXTcommunityfund want me to, I will disburse the NXTcommunityfund (minus some amount for rainy day fund) to the three committees or hand over trusteeship to whomever they choose. I dont want anybody to feel like I have so much centralized power that I might actually hurt NXT.

If anybody has actually started on any NXTcommunityfund bounties, let me know. I know of only the tipbot project and acceptance of NXT on websites project. Unless somebody posts that they are actively working on any of the other bounties, I think that it is best that they all be canceled. Wouldnt want to distract anybody from doing things that are actually important by working on my bounties that everybody feels is worthless.

Oh, rickyjames, please pay Zahlen and salsacz 500 NXT. I believe that concludes any current pending NXTcommunityfund business.

I have to pay my bills and at this point I have to either work on my ideas by myself since nobody will constructively help me or accept some external projects that I have been offered.

James

Edit: I hope people here will think I at least did some good by helping getting the unclaimed NXT released to the three committees. I feel that was a big positive, but then again I am probably wrong about that too.

for the record james you are a valued member of this community, but why are you taking what people say to heart? your ideas are welcome always...should people not give you constructive advice at all? for example this thread has suggested you put most of your ideas here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5039893#msg5039893  and then gradually introduce them are people wrong for this?

[ChuckOne]

I see what you mean. Commodity-backed money. Hmm, will history repeat itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgohO4E

The money should be backed by commodity and not the way is now.
The commodity is limited, planet earth is limited resources on the planet are limited
there is no space for infinite growth in economy.
Now the money is not backed by anything or only by empty promises in future.
We don't know the future therefore we should not believe in future promises.
Current economic model is detached from nature it does not follow the nature cycles
and will bring us do destruction.
Check the signature to learn more.

This is where I got the YT movie from. Thanks for that.

[Ola]

@cfb I am sure you code to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTURWqJyhU&list=PL4518B1FCFD912E2F
how do you not fall alseep?

[Pouncer]

So 2 questions.

1) What is the tecnical term for the assets that will be issued on the asset exchange. Specifically what is the technical term for this type of financial instrument? I know they will be a type of security but they are not futures. When the us treasury issued promissory notes redeemable for gold or silver they called them certificates. Is "certificate" the most accurate term? I, with my silver bullion gateway, would be issuing "silver bullion certificates"?

Share?

2) Even if we know what the technical term is than we probably shouldn't call it that. We may solicit unwanted attention from financial regulators. So what are we going to call them?

Asset?

no a share entitles you to a portion of the equity in a thing. this is different. this is the title to a thing its self. you are the owner of the silver coin, i am the custodian, and the token is the deed that proves that you are the one that owns it.

I suggest you call it anything, other than something misleading or sounding like a wall street financial instrument. What's important is how you define that asset. Let's call it AAg (Anon silver) as an example. 1 unit of AAg = "whatever you define".

Many may not understand the difference between holding title to an asset vs having a claim to a pool of asset. To make your service safe for market participants and professional (and hence profitable for you), it would help if you publish, sign and embedded a social contract into the blockchain defining a few key points:-

(1) Title to asset is transferred from you to buyer upon x confirmations by the Nxt network
(2) Until physical delivery is effected, any holder of AAg as defined by the Nxt blockchain remains the bailor and you become the bailee of the asset. See Bailment.
(3) Asset is stored by bailee on an Allocated asset (as opposed to an Unallocated or pooled asset).
(4) If you deal with bars with serial numbers, you could offer storage as Segregated asset, in which case each title is tied to a unique physical item.

(2) is the most important. Once it has been established that you are acting as a bailee and have no legal rights to the AAg and that they do not appear on your balance sheet, it cannot be sold by liquidators if you become bankrupt (not that you will ) or if it's confiscated by the FBI.

This is how major bullion custodians like GoldMoney, BullionVaut & PerthMint do it.

Hope it makes sense.

[ChuckOne]

if you're asking if negative input is legal, yes it is.

To simplify it, it's similar to how modulo operates in C.
If you do:

Code:

int x = (1-3) % 5;    // -2 % 5

you'll get "-2" as a result, but what you're actually interested in is:

Code:

int x = (1-3 + group_order) % 5;    // (-2 + 5) % 5  = 3 % 5 == 5

group_order == 5, and you'll get 3 as a result...

Yes, I know.

So, the problem is that -2 or 3 is processed further and we are not certain if -2 behaves differently than 3 does. That is certainly a problem.

EDIT: we are not certain if the 3 resulting from a -2 is process the same way as we would give it another try.

"-2" is passed as input to verify() which was expecting to see "3" not "-2"...

But it is not sure, if -2 in form as a 3 would result in the same outcome as it would be a 'real' 3 from the beginning.