NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[lophie]

But the whole point is isolation of private keys!. Ok I will just give away my implementation idea here to explain, So basically the exchange market is 100% cold because it doesn't even hold pre-generated address pool to assign to users. It only holds a single master public key. Whenever a user asks for thier deposit address a single invocation of addrGen(MPubK, userid) would always generate instantly the same address (Note that there is no private keys involved here!), On the secure super duper server that does not directly communicate to the exchange the coins can be spent by addrPrivGen(MPrivk, userid) <-(Not that addrPrivGen takes significantly more time since you actually have to generate from 1 up to userid number of private keys, but that private key will be able to spend the coins in that address).

The dangers of exposing MPK are only limited to expose all possible public keys in the sequence.

Note that this idea is DONE bitcoin side... with oh many new ideas coming this way

Ahhh, so u want it for cold wallet, now everything is clear. (you should have started, that user won't have access to priv key )

But As I've written:

I was thinking more about it, and it wouldn't be as straightforward as I thought, mainly because curve25519 is not bijective.
(But it would still be partially doable...)

Funny thing, I was thinking about making escrow for NXT, but haven't thought about MPK

I need to think about it, but I think that on super-duper secure server, you'd have to do check first, as there's chance, that addrGen(MPubK, userid) would generate key, that does NOT have corresponding private key... (curve25519(priv, basepoint)-> public is not surjective)

Yes I think now we are thinking about the same thing! Of course we will do alot of sampling but in BIP0032 there was math reasoning behind this and G. Maxwell actually to an extend, understood the mathimaticts behind it and why it work. I am way not there but I am learning everyday. Since you guys were discussing the curve I thought you can make this happen. This is the biggest sitback I have finishing up the exchange because I do not want a security breach. Basically even for a far fetched super hacker that would break into the server, There is really nothing to steal and it is damn hard to forge withdraw requests! Sanity tests, consistency test and dead man switches are all over the place. Call me paranoid but this is crypto, I would rather NOT deliver rather than a half baked product.

Also now imagine the decentralized exchanges are done and in the wild. You CANNOT automate and decentralize the gateway PERIOD, not compatible chains so that wont happen! Don't get me started  on if the gateway was for fiat!. MPK functionalities can greatly simplify an implementation for a gateway for deposits and withdrawals. When you make it faster and simpler you make the learning curve, maintaining and running a gateway or an asset exchange easier which will promote usage. Imagine a trusted Joe Nix Coiner opening something as big as havelockinvestments over a SINGLE low end desktop running in his living room! add tor, bitmesssage and other communication tools and you basically create a fully functional decentralized exchange plus gateway code that ANYONE can start and operate.

I know that is a bit far fetched broader picture but from here I see an MPK like feature playing a major rule in a good efficient implementation in many many applications. I am seriously willing to pay and I know you guys will get a kick working on something like this, So it is a win-win, and another win for all of us.

[Zahlen]

Super

big

ass

quote

pyramid.

Thanks for the comments everyone. But instead of having everyone else scroll past this o(n^2) collection of quote pyraminds (from original post, through each reply) to get through the thread, we could have an O(n) discussion in the wiki Discussion page instead.  

I've moved the convo over and added my reply: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Proposals . See how much cleaner this is than ever-growing quote pyramids? Take a look at this and this for some idea of how a longer convo can look like and be managed.

Wikipedians have been used to (semi-)decentralized organization and article editing for years now. We could borrow the methods they use.


We can use this main thread to link to discussions we've started. The wiki has a Watchlist feature (similar to forum watchlists) to help you keep track of what's been changed (including replies to your own comments). Click the star on a page to add it to your watchlist.

James, and everyone, how does this approach sound? Shall we give it a try?


EDIT:

After that, http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/List_of_Proposals was created with the idea that maybe this could be the hub for all (your) ideas.

I didn't create it in response to James' ideas specifically, it was in response to the general mess this thread has become (c.f. the quote pyramid above that you yourself contributed to!). If you check the List of Bounties and Proposal's page history, I created it many days ago. I already had the hub in mind. I've been trying, desperately, for the past week+, to get people to try other communication methods (like diaspora*). It's exhausting...

[rickyjames]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.  It would go a long way to boosting NXT acceptance, adoption, and exchange price.

So...what would it take to do better at our public relations face to the public?  What is the next major milestone we could announce to the world?  

[rickyjames]

Thanks for the comments everyone. But instead of having everyone else scroll past this o(n^2) collection of quote pyraminds (from original post, through each reply) to get through the thread, we could have an O(n) discussion in the wiki Discussion page instead.  

I've moved the convo over and added my reply: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Proposals . See how much cleaner this is than ever-growing quote pyramids? Take a look at this and this for some idea of how a longer convo can look like and be managed.

Wikipedians have been used to (semi-)decentralized organization and article editing for years now. We could borrow the methods they use.

We can use this main thread to link to discussions we've started. The wiki has a Watchlist feature (similar to forum watchlists) to help you keep track of what's been changed (including replies to your own comments). Click the star on a page to add it to your watchlist.

James, and everyone, how does this approach sound? Shall we give it a try?

EDIT:

After that, http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/List_of_Proposals was created with the idea that maybe this could be the hub for all (your) ideas.

I didn't create it in response to James' ideas specifically, it was in response to the general mess this thread has become (c.f. the quote pyramid above that you yourself contributed to!). If you check the List of Bounties and Proposal's page history, I created it many days ago. I already had the hub in mind.  I've been trying, desperately, for the past week+, to get people to try other communication methods (like diaspora*). It's exhausting...

Zahlem, I want to give your idea a chance to work because it is a good idea.  So I am going to try and use it right here, right now. 

I want to understand how the blockchain works on a detailed level.  I want to write up an interface control document (ICD) for the structure of an NXT block.  How big is an NXT  block in bytes?  How many bytes are allocated to what function?  Are there variable sized blocks depending on what is in them?  If you, yes YOU,  are reading these words and know ANY information at all on how the NXT blocks are structured, make zahlen (and me!) a happy man by posting not on this thread, but at least one single sentence (or more!) on this wiki page:

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How_block_generation_works

Thanks!!!

[salsacz]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.  It would go a long way to boosting NXT acceptance, adoption, and exchange price.

So...what would it take to do better at our public relations face to the public?  What is the next major milestone we could announce to the world?  

cannot sleap, too much weed..

I asked for a letter so we could send it to universities and businessmen https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5007480#msg5007480

Then we are working on articles, some of them are still free:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412243.msg5009460#msg5009460
- I am finishing the text "Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions", so I hope it will get some comments from the community and them we can send it to big mainstream media and get attention from guys like Kim Dotcom or Assagne. As was said, contact with Kim is possible, but we need to show him this text first

[CIYAM]

Relax.  Don't panic.  Stay calm and carry on.

I agree with this and hope you haven't taken my criticisms too heavily James. Understand that from a "software engineering" perspective the way you think is a bit like if you approached a "structural engineer" with the following:

1) I need a foundation for a house to be built made out of steel.
Engineer says no worries - let me work out how much steel we will need - how big is the house?

2) I think that the building will need a helipad - can we have a helipad that handles up to 4 helicopters at once?
Engineer says - "building" hang on a minute I thought you said "house" - we are going to need a *lot* of steel - you don't want to use concrete also?

3) I think that the building needs to be a floating structure that will be placed into international waters - no problem with making it float?
Engineer says - I am going for a beer.

[rickyjames]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

what would it take to do better at our public relations face?  

cannot sleap, too much weed..
- I am finishing the text "Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions", so I hope it will get some comments from the community and them we can send it to big mainstream media and get attention from guys like Kim Dotcom or Assagne. As was said, contact with Kim is possible, but we need to show him this text first

Somehow, when I asked the question of how to do better at our public relations face, I didn't think the answer would be too much weed, Kim Dotcom and Julian Assagne.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

[rickyjames]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

[2Kool4Skewl]

I see what you mean. Commodity-backed money. Hmm, will history repeat itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgohO4E

The money should be backed by commodity and not the way is now.
The commodity is limited, planet earth is limited resources on the planet are limited
there is no space for infinite growth in economy.
Now the money is not backed by anything or only by empty promises in future.

+1

Debt as money = biggest scam on earth

[salsacz]

Sent about 20 emails/tweets to the attendants of the conf to have a talk/interview, we have business cards, thirts, flyers and probably will have stickers too. I hope it's worth of all that time spent on such things

[Voluntold]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

My wife is pretty hot. I might be able to get her to do some things. She has listened to me talk about Nxt enough that she knows just as much as I do.

[LiQio]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

My wife is pretty hot. I might be able to get her to do some things. She has listened to me talk about Nxt enough that she knows just as much as I do.

  now it's getting interesting 

[Eadeqa]

I give 99% that fix of Curve25519 is safe, but the rest 1% doesn't let me to use the fix coz this part is the most critical part of Nxt. So without a formal proof I'll stick to loop inside Crypto.sign.

Last one from me:
There's nothing to prove, math stays the same, it's the implementation that's wrong not the math,.
All the math is already in the file in the comments, those comments were made by this "xmath" dude from sci.crypt (I assume this is Matthijs van Duin).

Do you have link  Matthijs van Duin comments? Maybe that will convince CFB if you posted the link to  Matthijs van Duin

[miKnutty]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

My wife is pretty hot. I might be able to get her to do some things. She has listened to me talk about Nxt enough that she knows just as much as I do.

  now it's getting interesting 

video time

[Eadeqa]

Last one from me:
There's nothing to prove, math stays the same, it's the implementation that's wrong not the math,.
All the math is already in the file in the comments, those comments were made by this "xmath" dude from sci.crypt (I assume this is Matthijs van Duin).

"doctorevil" thinks the patch  is kosher

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3915.msg37082.html#msg37082

Given his history, we should take his advice and apply the patch.

[bitcoinpaul]

Why should we rush things when one smart guy says "It looks totally kosher to me."?

[Eadeqa]

Why should we rush things when one smart guy says "It looks totally kosher to me."?

He earned his credibility here

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3884.msg36732.html#msg36732

but it's not one guy. There are two others (gimre and BloodyRookie)

[gimre]

Code:

		if ((v[31] & 0x80) != 0)
		{
			mula_small(v, v , 0, ORDER, 32, 1);
		}

Don't do this. The time required to run the code should NEVER depend on input data. This makes timing attacks possible (depending how to the methods are used).
If this is fixed it should be incorporated into main client.

You want to say, alternative USING LOOP to find proper x is better?

(on a sidenote, current implementation of Curve most likely IS susceptible to timing attack, but that shouldn't be a problem - network lag would screw your timings a lot)


edit oh and also that:

NOW, signing is actually:
v * temp, where temp is related ONLY to PUBLIC key. (v is dependent ONLY on the data)
...
(whatever old one leaks is up to you, I know it doesn't, cause it's NOT related directly to private key)

seems doctorevil said the same:

Iruu's mention of a possible timing attack doesn't really apply to the patch.  The impact on the timing of sign() that the changes make only leak data about values that are already public.

[l8orre]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

Hey CfB - did I miss that getTrades call, or did you just put that in yeseteday!?!

This is an extremely valuable function to have, I was up and about to implement it client side !!

Luckily I did not yet