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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761529 times)
Come-from-Beyond
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February 10, 2014, 07:20:28 PM
 #31741

Well, back to the stolen coins. What was the passphrase?
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February 10, 2014, 07:25:56 PM
 #31742

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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Countless pages with newbies' first and last post...

From NEM thread lol...

Ties are a prison for the soul...
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February 10, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
 #31743

Well, back to the stolen coins. What was the passphrase?

yeah he's not going to fess up. We're too smart over here for his likes..

 Grin Grin

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February 10, 2014, 07:37:35 PM
 #31744

Sorry bit off topic....if anyone has seen the new Robocop movie then you will see clearly why anonymous encrypted internet/calling/messaging/platforms will be a staple of the future:

(leaked today from our dear friend ED)

‘Gilgamesh’ and ‘Shenanigans’

Instead of accessing cellphone metadata through cell phone towers and internet service providers, the NSA uses a program called Gilgamesh. To be able to track the cellphones of potential targets a special device known as a ‘virtual base-tower transceiver’ has to be installed on the drone. The transceiver emits a signal that forces the target’s mobile to lock into the NSA’s system, allowing the target to be tracked to within 30 feet of their location.

As well as Gilgamesh, the NSA has developed a program known as ‘Shenanigans’ that acts like a giant cyber vacuum cleaner. A pod on an aircraft downloads massive amounts of information from any wireless networks, smart phones, computers, or other electronic devices that are within range.

The world needs the Nxt Ecosystem....


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February 10, 2014, 07:40:25 PM
 #31745

so why are they are moving money to a new account, sending 650 and then sending the rest?


OOOHH because they are FAKING THE IPO

Why FAKE? It could be a person who wants to increase his share in the IPO.

hmmmmm......

 
                                . ██████████.
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utopianfuture
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February 10, 2014, 07:42:12 PM
 #31746

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Countless pages with newbies' first and last post...

From NEM thread lol...

That's the design. Instead of easily sending in 3000 nxt to buy 5nem stakes now you would have to make up 5 different accounts, take the waiting time to post, then move the money around and send them in. Overcoming all these hassles, but the multi accters still suffer from public shaming and risk getting the money returned if they don't mix their coins good enough to avoid taint analysis.

I do like having some of these persistent souls in the team as they do believe in nem's success.


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February 10, 2014, 07:43:11 PM
 #31747



Legendary!
brooklynbtc
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February 10, 2014, 07:43:48 PM
 #31748

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Countless pages with newbies' first and last post...

From NEM thread lol...

That's the design. Instead of easily sending in 3000 nxt to buy 5nem stakes now you would have to make up 5 different accounts, take the waiting time to post, then move the money around and send them in. Overcoming all these hassles, but the multi accters still suffer from public shaming and risk getting the money returned if they don't mix their coins good enough to avoid taint analysis.

I do like having some of these persistent souls in the team as they do believe in nem's success.


UP, check your PM

re: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=246361

SN
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February 10, 2014, 07:48:05 PM
 #31749

I'm not against some guy's "persistence" to game the IPO, but then when he cries WOLF..

OR if ojman28, whose BTT account was registered just yesterday, and somehow got 34000 coins, and admits to "he and his friends" buying into NEM IPO, somehow got his password guessed, BECAUSE he was making 100 passwords in a few hours, and not making strong ones, then well, he's all yours

SN
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February 10, 2014, 07:56:07 PM
 #31750

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

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February 10, 2014, 07:59:32 PM
 #31751

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

so our man ojman28 was hard on this IPO tweak, and he sent to a weak password, and just happened to get popped, then its all his damn fault, and a reminder to pick a REAL PASSWORD

SN
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TwinWinNerD
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February 10, 2014, 08:04:38 PM
 #31752

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

so our man ojman28 was hard on this IPO tweak, and he sent to a weak password, and just happened to get popped, then its all his damn fault, and a reminder to pick a REAL PASSWORD

yes, basically it is the same as the brainwallet and BTC. Many lazy or dumb people lost their coins due to rainbowtable bots.

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February 10, 2014, 08:05:16 PM
 #31753

There have been quite a few posts lately discussing the failure of sign() in curve25519.java. I still have the feeling that most people don't fully understand what causes this failure. So I will explain in detail below. Note that if the majority of the community thinks that curve25519.java should not be changed, that's ok for me. I don't forge with my small account so it doesn't matter to me.

Let's start by looking at an easy example to see what can go wrong:
Our coder Mr. Confusius wants to write some code that is doing modulus calculus in the field F7 (i.e. all numbers can be reduced mod 7). Since F7 contains only the numbers 0,....,6 he decides to represent each number by 4 bits and calls his class fourBitNum. So we have
0 = 0000, 1 = 0001, ..., 6 = 0110
Happy with the design he writes methods for adding, subtracting, multiplication and mod 7 reduction of those numbers:

Code:
FourBitNum add(fourBitNum a, fourBitNum b)
FourBitNum sub(fourBitNum a, fourBitNum b)
FourBitNum mul(fourBitNum a, fourBitNum b)
FourBitNum mod7(fourBitNum a)

He then tests his code by calculating 5+4 in F7. Since 5+4=9≡2 mod 7 the output should be 2:
Code:
fourBitNum a = add(fourBitNum(5), fourBitNum(4));
fourBitNum b = mod7(a);
output(b)
and the output is indeed 2 as expected. What a great coder I am, he thinks, and tests the multiplication. 5*4=20≡6 mod 7 so the output should be 6:
Code:
fourBitNum a = mul(fourBitNum(5), fourBitNum(4));
fourBitNum b = mod7(a);
output(b)
He wraps his eyes when he sees that the output is 4. ok, I'll fix that later he says to himself, let's first try the sub method. He tests 5 and 4 as input for calculating 5-4=1 mod 7 and the result is correct. However 4 and 5 as input for calculating 4-5=-1≡6 mod 7 outputs the unexpected result 1.
What the hell is wrong with his code?
In the first example of failure the result 5*4=20=10100 is to big to be held in four bits so his add method simply omits the highest bit, effectively doing a mod 16 reduction of 5*4 followed by the wanted mod 7 reduction: output = ((5*4) mod 16) mod7 = 4.
Not handling overflows always ruins the calculation.
In the second example 4-5=-1=1111 in his four bit representation. But his mod7 method expects positive input and interprets it as 15 which again means there was an unwanted mod 16 reduction, -1≡15 mod 16, and his calculation is ruined again.

The conclusion is that when doing modulus calculation it is very important to realize when numbers get too big (i.e. overflow) or too small (i.e. < 0, underflow). The coder of curve25519.java (respectively the coder of the original in c) certainly is not Mr. Confusius. But he did make some mistakes. Let's analyze the sign() method line by line:

Code:
public static final boolean sign(byte[] v, byte[] h, byte[] x, byte[] s) {
   /* v = (x - h) s  mod q */
The comment simply states what he wants to calculate. At this point h is a hash representing an arbitrary 256-bit, x is a hash that got clamped (i.e. some bits were changed) and s is the inverse of the private key k. s already has been reduced mod group order. After defining some variables that he needs for the calculation and setting all bytes in the v array to 0 the calculation begins:
Code:
i = mula_small(v, x, 0, h, 32, -1);
The name "mula_small" is deceptive, it really is a multiplication plus an addition. He calculates v = x + h * (-1). The returned value i is not used in the subsequent calculation. The author probably only used it for debugging purposes. More on that a little later.
We will leave out the next line (I will refer to this line as "strange code line")
Code:
mula_small(v, v, 0, ORDER, 32, (15-v[31])/16);
for a moment and take a look at the rest of the code first before returning to this important line.
The author continues to get to the wanted result with
Code:
mula32(tmp1, v, s, 32, 1);
Again the name "mula32" is deceptive as it really is 2 multiplications plus one addition. The line means: tmp1 = tmp1 + v * s * 1. Since v=x-h and this point we have tmp1 = (x-h)*s.
The last line that calculates something, is a mod q reduction (where q is the group order represented by the ORDER argument) which is in principle unnecessary:
Code:
divmod(tmp2, tmp1, 64, ORDER, 32);
The result is tmp2 = tmp1/ORDER as integer division and tmp1 = tmp1 mod ORDER so we finally have tmp1 = (x-h)*s mod q
The following loop copies tmp1 into v and at the same time ORs the bits of tmp1 into w. Thus w==0 <==> v==0:
Code:
for (w = 0, i = 0; i < 32; i++)
   w |= v[i] = tmp1[i];
It finally returns true if and only if v!=0 (via w!=0).
Note that sign() returns false <==> v==0 <==> (x-h)s mod q == 0 <==> x=h. Since x and h are sha256 hashes (with x only a little bit changed) we either are very unlucky) or message + s == message + Y <==> s==Y where Y is the public key of x. Again, that is very unlikely. To me, failure to produce a valid signature is just a theoretical possibility, it should not happen in real life (correct me if I am wrong).

Now will that code work? If we comment out the "strange code line" and remove the variable "i" we probably get the first version of the sign() method that the author tested. It produces in more than 60% of the cases wrong signatures. Why that? If x-h<0 then v=(x-h)s<0 and the mod q reduction will not give the expected result. The author probably was astonished and inserted the variable i in his code to check if mula_small(v, x, 0, h, 32, -1) indicates an underflow (mula_small returns -1 in this case). Once he realized the problem he tried to fix it in a super smart way by inserting the "strange code line":
Code:
   mula_small(v, v, 0, ORDER, 32, (15-v[31])/16);
With this line, he wants to kill two birds with one stone:
1) Compensate the error if there was an underflow (i.e. x<h)
2) reduce v mod q

But alas, sometimes if you think you are doing something super smart you end up doing something super stupid! It usually is better to do it in 2 steps each of which is easy to understand.
Let's see what really happens:
If 0<=v[31]<31 then 0*group order is added to v leaving v unchanged.
If 31<=v[31]<=127 then a (positive) multiple of the group order is subtracted from v to get 0<=v<q.
If -128<v[31]<0 then a (positive) multiple of the group order is added to v. v is hereby crossing the 2^256 border causing an overflow.
So his idea is:
If x>=h then v=x-h is positive and thus the highest bit of v is not set, i.e. 0<=v[31]<127. In that case we reduce v by subtracting multiple of the group order ending up with 0<=v<q.
In the other case x<h making v=x-h negativ (we had an underflow) and thus its highest bit is set, i.e. -128<v[31]<0. In that case we are causing an overflow by adding a suitable multiple of the group order which compensates the underflow and will again have 0<=v<q.
Sounds good but actually is a bad idea!
Consider x=2^255+1 and h=1 giving v=x-h=2^255. There was no underflow in the calculation and still the highest bit of v is set causing the above algorithm to add a multiple of the group order which in turn causes an overflow und thus ruining the whole calculation.
On the other hand if x=1 and h=2^255+1 then the calculation of v is indeed causing an underflow but this time the highest bit of v is not set so the algorithm will not compensate for it and thus again ruining the calculation.

Even though the first case cannot happen (the highest bit of x is always cleared) the second case can happen and leads to failure. The probability is roughly (1/4*1/2*2^254*(2^254 + 1))/2^508 ≈ 1/8 which is close to the value gimre found with his tests.

The way I suggested to correct the error was very simply and thus easy to understand:
Since the whole calculation is within Fq, reduction mod q of any positive variable at any point of the calculation doesn't alter the result (that's a mathematical fact). After we have reduced x and h mod q and calculated v=x-h it's easy to check if v is negative by looking at the highest bit (this always works!). If it is negative, adding the group order will always result in 0<=v<q. The rest of sign() is the same es before. Nothing is leaked.
For those who are complaining that parts of my code like
Code:
if ((v[31] & 0x80) != 0)
{
   mula_small(v, v , 0, ORDER, 32, 1);
}
is time dependent and therefore bad, you can easily modify it to include a fake addition which adds 0:
Code:
if ((v[31] & 0x80) != 0)
{
   mula_small(v, v , 0, ORDER, 32, 1);
}
else
{
   mula_small(v, v , 0, ORDER, 32, 0);
}
Even more, if you are complaining about code in curve25519.java to be time dependent, take a look how the inverse s=k^-1 of the private key k is calculated. It uses the extended euclidean algorithm which is time dependend too. If you have problems with that, you have to replace that part too (It can be done by using Fermat's little theorem and a Montgommery ladder).

That's it, I have nothing more to say about sign() (the post was long enough Smiley ).
I hope that those who are interested in the sign() method now have a better understanding what really happens inside of it and where is goes wrong.

Thank you for that thorough analysis. Looks acceptable to me. If all operations are executed within the modulo field, they can be reduced at any time over and over again.
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February 10, 2014, 08:05:48 PM
 #31754

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Countless pages with newbies' first and last post...

From NEM thread lol...

That's the design. Instead of easily sending in 3000 nxt to buy 5nem stakes now you would have to make up 5 different accounts, take the waiting time to post, then move the money around and send them in. Overcoming all these hassles, but the multi accters still suffer from public shaming and risk getting the money returned if they don't mix their coins good enough to avoid taint analysis.

I do like having some of these persistent souls in the team as they do believe in nem's success.


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

Ties are a prison for the soul...
utopianfuture
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February 10, 2014, 08:06:14 PM
 #31755

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

so our man ojman28 was hard on this IPO tweak, and he sent to a weak password, and just happened to get popped, then its all his damn fault, and a reminder to pick a REAL PASSWORD

There are a lot of risks for multi-acc-ers: BTT pass hacked or forgotten, transaction hash stolen, NXT acc hacked (as in this case) .


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xyzzyx
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I don't really come from outer space.


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February 10, 2014, 08:06:40 PM
 #31756

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

I really like the idea of theoretically being able to access my Nxt account from any machine using only my passphrase.  In practice however it would be crazy to trust unknown nodes with your password.  Conversely, what is nice is that if you should have a catastrophic hardware failure and no backups then your account isn't lost.

When I first read about Nxt back in the beginning of December, the brainwallet feature really got me excited and was probably the one thing that made me try it out.

Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that the brainwallet feature is not meant for average users.  I think we should keep it as an advanced option, but by default a client should implement a bitcoin-like wallet, for the safety of our users.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
sunrise778
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February 10, 2014, 08:25:04 PM
 #31757



The owner of the VPS node from US, IP: 54.200.250.250, "The Matrix has you..."
Which version running on node90.nxtbase.com?

The owner of the VPS node from US, IP: 54.201.191.208, node81.nxtbase.com, NRS 0.5.0
157'752 NXT (about 8000$)
NRS 0.5.0 was released at 04-Jan-2014. Today: 10-Feb-2014.

Could you please update your server? Thank you!

I think, if we update our servers in time, possibly we get fewer problems.
brooklynbtc
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AKA jefdiesel


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February 10, 2014, 08:27:31 PM
 #31758

there is place for an app there, NXT password option

it lets you choose a password, and a login name, even use 2FA, and then it spits out a LONG RANDOM number, and enters it for you, seamlessly, like a BTC privatekey

So if you use this feature, you can log in and out with the app, and never have to know the brainwallet password, and all us Beta geeks can keep on remembering our
Sup33r#{a55w0r'dz}+UZEca#'tKr2@ckd33z+!Cmon/#8*)

SN
S   U   P   E   R    N   E   T
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Uniting cryptocurrencies, Rewarding talent, Sharing benefits..

Blockchain Technology.

fmiboy
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February 10, 2014, 08:29:52 PM
 #31759

It was obviously a weak password, and 2 minutes mean, that the "rainbowtable"-man is at it again Cheesy

You can check that by yourself if you send money to an account that has a password that is in the english dictionairy, it will be gone within minutes Wink

I really like the idea of theoretically being able to access my Nxt account from any machine using only my passphrase.  In practice however it would be crazy to trust unknown nodes with your password.  Conversely, what is nice is that if you should have a catastrophic hardware failure and no backups then your account isn't lost.

When I first read about Nxt back in the beginning of December, the brainwallet feature really got me excited and was probably the one thing that made me try it out.

Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that the brainwallet feature is not meant for average users.  I think we should keep it as an advanced option, but by default a client should implement a bitcoin-like wallet, for the safety of our users.


well that's one reason, why clienxt's design made it look/feel like like bitcoin wallet... Smiley
^[GS]^
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February 10, 2014, 08:36:26 PM
 #31760

First Week in NXTio.org!


Forged blocks: 2 (all empty Sad)

but get up and flying! Smiley
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