jl777
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1132
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February 14, 2014, 08:55:33 AM |
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any detailed info about multisig?
I found some info about being able to sign a transaction and then pass it onto the next signer, also nobody is calling me a total idiot. I think that is a good sign The biggest remaining problem is how to deal with the scenario of a gateway disappearing. Actually one disappearing is easy, the remaining gateways would have to stop all transaction processing. Create a new multisig acct without the missing gateway and then transfer the balance into the new acct. Restart transaction processing. What if two gateways go missing? Then if we are using N-1 signers, all the funds are locked. So, we probably need a way for each gateway to prove that they have put into escrow their private key and some secure method of unlocking an escrowed key in the event of disappearance. Its almost 6am and I think I made decent progress on this today, so I will leave it to the European zone to make it all nice and happy. James P.S. Do not worry about the seemingly cumbersome process of sending AM from one gateway to the next, it will all be automatic and being in the NXT blockchain makes everything transparent. Just the way BCNext wants it!
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chanc3r
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February 14, 2014, 08:55:38 AM |
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i understand how multisig works. thats not the confusing part. its the idea of people honouring each others obligations and doing multisig. when i think of federating i think of people honouring each others agreements but then clearing their balances with each other periodically. so like if you and i federated and we issued 10 silver bars each. and then all 20 bars were redeemed through my gateway. you would owe me 10 silver bars. you would send the bars and then the balances would be cleared. we were able to federate because i trusted you.
oooh i get it now. i see why the wires were getting crossed. if you did a multisig account you wouldn’t be federating you would be incorporating!
Can we get a balance where the federation of the gateways ensures the integrity of the transaction without becoming liable for the asset? What I tried to get across in my reply to James a few pages back (which you kindly responded to) was the transaction is a contracts between the buyer and the seller and gateways cooperate to enforce the escrow / atomicity of the transaction and asset being transferred for which the gateways get a fee. Firstly for this to work each maybe you need gateway relationship to be verified bi-laterally, i.e. a gateway to gateway trust relationship is pre-established, I am not sure this exists in the Ripple model which is why I think there is a problem - is this what you mean by federation. Each buyer and seller legitimise the asset with each gateway involved e.g. deposit asset in escrow or reserve somehow. The buyer sends the transaction request to the sellers gateway to buy the asset (with the relevant buy/sell asset ids from each gateway) The sellers gateway initiates a transaction on the block chain which is seen by buyers gateway and this is validated by forging as legitimate (e.g. 10 confirms?) The buyers gateway then confirms the transaction by re-submitting again to be validated by forging to confirm the buyer honours the contract. The two gateways can then release the escrow asset to the buyer and seller respectively. The transaction ledger could be the NXT blockchain, once the transaction is validated by forging the seller gateway releases the asset to the buyer and the buyer gateway releases the asset to the seller. The buyer/seller gateways would get their fees from the buyer/seller respectively There is a NXT fee for each of the transactions involved. What I am trying to achieve is the gateways are acting to ensure the safe transfer of an asset between two parties but maybe this is too hard complicated? For widespread adoption there needed to be trust in the integrity of the transaction and that should be down to whether Anon, Bob or Sally tokens have a different trust level. Without some level of transaction legitimacy validated by NXT itself I fear we would have a massive dispute resolution problem with scam buyers as much of a problem as scam sellers.
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salsacz
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February 14, 2014, 08:57:28 AM |
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Here's my spot of Latin for a NXT slogan:
non deorum, non reges, iustus NXT
No gods, no kings, just NXT (corrections welcome)
You know, I think the original "no gods, no kings, just us" works too -- especially considering that Nxt will likely become a foundation upon which other currencies ride. The "just us" is all-inclusive. Just a thought. Works for me....lets go for "just us". Now, we need someone who actually knows Latin for a grammar check...I'm not totally sure if Google translate is trustworthy. Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum Nxt
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longzai1988
Member
Offline
Activity: 77
Merit: 10
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February 14, 2014, 08:58:30 AM |
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Yes, we rolled back to previous copy. DAMN ! I lost my 200k NXTs
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sweet & happy cryptocurrency , cheers NXT : NXT-HSBE-8PWL-CUCD-BHUD6 BTCD : RTaMoRXsA7uCv869dX1TfCZmHw4ExbMVmQ
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allwelder
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1004
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February 14, 2014, 08:59:02 AM |
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I want to inform you all that bter indeed sent me my 100k already. Thanks for all that helped. So basically the drone in charge of support@bter.com cannot access any information and simply replies out of thier ass, After serious emails back and forth and many information submitted by from thier own systems, They gave in and actually forwarded my complain to the people in charge, was solved a couple of hours afterwards. - Lophie Congratulations
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mcjavar
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February 14, 2014, 09:01:47 AM |
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I want to inform you all that bter indeed sent me my 100k already. Thanks for all that helped. So basically the drone in charge of support@bter.com cannot access any information and simply replies out of thier ass, After serious emails back and forth and many information submitted by from thier own systems, They gave in and actually forwarded my complain to the people in charge, was solved a couple of hours afterwards. - Lophie Congratulations Now you can dump them
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Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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February 14, 2014, 09:02:45 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
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swartzfeger
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February 14, 2014, 09:05:42 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006
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l8orre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018
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February 14, 2014, 09:06:22 AM |
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Here's my spot of Latin for a NXT slogan:
non deorum, non reges, iustus NXT
No gods, no kings, just NXT (corrections welcome)
You know, I think the original "no gods, no kings, just us" works too -- especially considering that Nxt will likely become a foundation upon which other currencies ride. The "just us" is all-inclusive. Just a thought. Works for me....lets go for "just us". Now, we need someone who actually knows Latin for a grammar check...I'm not totally sure if Google translate is trustworthy. Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NxtHey salsacz ! Goog to see that you made it back home! Hope the bus ride was not too uncomfortable!
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l8orre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018
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February 14, 2014, 09:07:44 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 if my Unigots are gone, please send some testcoins to this testnet account - I'll recreate them! 1738404304940813414
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cc001
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February 14, 2014, 09:09:02 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 if my Unigots are gone, please send some testcoins to this testnet account - I'll recreate them! 1738404304940813414 I want to buy some Unigots test account 14982679201235752929
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jl777
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1132
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February 14, 2014, 09:11:23 AM |
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i understand how multisig works. thats not the confusing part. its the idea of people honouring each others obligations and doing multisig. when i think of federating i think of people honouring each others agreements but then clearing their balances with each other periodically. so like if you and i federated and we issued 10 silver bars each. and then all 20 bars were redeemed through my gateway. you would owe me 10 silver bars. you would send the bars and then the balances would be cleared. we were able to federate because i trusted you.
oooh i get it now. i see why the wires were getting crossed. if you did a multisig account you wouldn’t be federating you would be incorporating!
Can we get a balance where the federation of the gateways ensures the integrity of the transaction without becoming liable for the asset? What I tried to get across in my reply to James a few pages back (which you kindly responded to) was the transaction is a contracts between the buyer and the seller and gateways cooperate to enforce the escrow / atomicity of the transaction and asset being transferred for which the gateways get a fee. Firstly for this to work each maybe you need gateway relationship to be verified bi-laterally, i.e. a gateway to gateway trust relationship is pre-established, I am not sure this exists in the Ripple model which is why I think there is a problem - is this what you mean by federation. Each buyer and seller legitimise the asset with each gateway involved e.g. deposit asset in escrow or reserve somehow. The buyer sends the transaction request to the sellers gateway to buy the asset (with the relevant buy/sell asset ids from each gateway) The sellers gateway initiates a transaction on the block chain which is seen by buyers gateway and this is validated by forging as legitimate (e.g. 10 confirms?) The buyers gateway then confirms the transaction by re-submitting again to be validated by forging to confirm the buyer honours the contract. The two gateways can then release the escrow asset to the buyer and seller respectively. The transaction ledger could be the NXT blockchain, once the transaction is validated by forging the seller gateway releases the asset to the buyer and the buyer gateway releases the asset to the seller. The buyer/seller gateways would get their fees from the buyer/seller respectively There is a NXT fee for each of the transactions involved. What I am trying to achieve is the gateways are acting to ensure the safe transfer of an asset between two parties but maybe this is too hard complicated? For widespread adoption there needed to be trust in the integrity of the transaction and that should be down to whether Anon, Bob or Sally tokens have a different trust level. Without some level of transaction legitimacy validated by NXT itself I fear we would have a massive dispute resolution problem with scam buyers as much of a problem as scam sellers. I think you are overcomplicating. The ONLY function of the gateway is to accept deposit and process withdrawal of an asset. I am only dealing with crypto gateways here, more specifically cryptos with multisig support like BTC. All the gateways in the federation would agree to run the same software, or at least software that makes the same business decisions. All the transactions are on the BTC blockchain or NXT blockchain. For deposits, all gateways accept it and put it into shared multisig deposit acct and issue their asset. For user simplicity, I suggest all gateway specific BTC be exchanged automatically to a federation BTC. [maybe federation is the wrong word?] Then users would just trade the federation BTC Asset as much as they want. NXT AE makes sure everyone ends up with the right amount of federation BTC. Finally, when the user wants to withdraw actual BTC, he needs to select a gateway, which triggers the automated multisig process. We need to protect the withdrawal process. All of the asset issuance and deposits will be monitored in realtime by all the different gateways. The withdrawal process is validated by multisig from all gateways (minus 1) and the user gets BTC in his wallet. The moment a gateway accepts a deposit and doesnt issue a matched amount of Asset, or just issues unbacked Assets, they will be caught redhanded by all the other gateways. Also, to do this, they would have to change the automated gateway software and replace it with an Evil one. There are ways to ensure this doesnt happen! I think the overall plan is decent, but it is still young and definitely needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb to fine any possible ways Evil bob can circumvent things and abscond with BTC
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Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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February 14, 2014, 09:13:05 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 Thank u, sent 3M.
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marcus03
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February 14, 2014, 09:14:33 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 Please fund me on testnet: 13266890203335482459 Thanks!
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swartzfeger
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February 14, 2014, 09:16:19 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 Thank u, sent 3M. Last block was 3:55 EST... hopefully a new one will pop soon. Also: I'm keeping track of requests
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zorke
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February 14, 2014, 09:17:38 AM |
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Ok guys so what's up with Vircurex? It is like they have disappeared into a thin air. I resolve my problems with BTER, yesterday night they credited my coins after we exchanged 10 emails, but they at least responded. Vircurex guys don't respond third day in a row.. And I am not the only one, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49383.new#newDid anybody actually managed to deposit NXT to Vircurex in the last 3 days? Anyone has more info? Maybe I should just PM their lead man KUMALA, but he wasn't active either on this forum since February 1st. Unbelievable!! Thanks
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salsacz
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February 14, 2014, 09:21:48 AM |
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nice to see wiki also in Farsi. But we need Arabic language asap
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swartzfeger
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February 14, 2014, 09:21:58 AM |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 if my Unigots are gone, please send some testcoins to this testnet account - I'll recreate them! 1738404304940813414 200k sent. You are L captain.
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swartzfeger
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February 14, 2014, 09:22:36 AM |
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I want to buy some Unigots test account 14982679201235752929 200k sent. You are C captain.
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swartzfeger
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February 14, 2014, 09:24:12 AM Last edit: February 14, 2014, 09:56:38 AM by swartzfeger |
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Could anyone distribute testcoins? I could send 3M.
I'll be awake for another 2-3 hours. 11369639962571180006 Please fund me on testnet: 13266890203335482459 Thanks! 200k sent, you are M captain. edit: for those that don't know -- the first person to ask for testNXT with a particular letter of a nickname then distributes testNXT to others with nicknames that begin with the same letter (Marcus, you would hand out testNXT to people whose forum names begin with M). 10k to be sent out to others on your team. you can check test account balances going here: http://holms.cloudapp.net:6874/nxt?requestType=getBalance&account=Xand replace X with account number.
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