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Author Topic: Economic Devastation  (Read 503951 times)
TPTB_need_war
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May 04, 2015, 12:50:23 AM
Last edit: May 04, 2015, 04:04:00 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1461

But for the last 8 months, I've had pain in the knee joint.  I think i have eversion of the foot (aka ankle pronation). I've tried nearly everything. Including orthoptics and barefoot running. I dont really know what do to now. Whenever I walk, my arch collapses. If you run fast, you must have very high arches. Were you born like that or did you train in a particular way ?

PS: thank you for replying on my bitcoin question.

Yes I do have high arches. I don't know if it is innate or from training.

If your problem is mechanical, then vitamin D3 may do nothing. But if it is a change as you've aged, maybe it is hormonal and in that case perhaps vitamin D3 might have an effect and would be a long shot experiment. VitD3 is related to bone health, and there are many small bones in our feet.

I do tend to train more for power than for endurance. I do some endurance yet I always mix in some power activities such as sprinting, weight lifting, power-drives in basketball, boxing, etc.. Power breeds power and testosterone. Our hormone levels are vital to feelings of well being and health.

I did try DHEA in the past (sparingly) and although is gives a boost, I find it very deleterious overall and very detrimental. I never took anabolic steroids.

I tend to guess your problem is hormonal, not innate mechanical.

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May 04, 2015, 01:01:20 AM
Last edit: May 04, 2015, 01:20:05 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1462

They do it for money thats all.

The circus and games of the Americans are peaking now with the peaking of the society. Just like Rome, it will collapse.

This $400 million for a boring defensive boxing match is probably the peak of boxing as a spectator, money sport. Many people who paid are unsatisfied. They wanted to see Manny (David) slay Goliath with sufficient violence to hurt Mayweather for all his transgressions against political correctness and socialism. Floyd was booed so loudly after the scorecard was announced, his post-fight ring interview couldn't be heard clearly.

Floyd is milking the system very opportunistically.

Manny is a conflicted person with his religious bullshit and socialistic lies to himself and then wanting to extract maximum violence, yet justifying that is the sport of boxing yet then complaining about the sport of boxing being points based.
They both knew what the fight was really about. MONEY. They both had moeny on their mind the whole time and i wouldn't doubt it

Manny said he was willing to give it all to charity if Floyd would too. I heard some say they expected Manny to give up to half of his $100 million stake to charity. Manny spends most of his money on his large entourage of followers, not only himself.

Manny loves people. Well I do too, but difference I hate socialism and Manny (and many filipinos these days) seems caught up in idolizing it. I see that as his downfall. Individual initiative is what makes greatness, not groupthink. Manny believes he can make a better country and wants to run for Senator (or maybe this is just about money but it appears to be ideological and it could be he lying to himself but he puts on a very convincing show of sincere ideology).

I been noticing a trend away from filipino tribalism towards nationalism. I was very happy with this loss of Manny to douse some of that nationalistic mayonnaise that is festering in the Philippines. Originally I was sort of pulling for Manny to win because I admire his power and ferociousness, but then as the socialistic mayonnaise has been going ad nauseum every day for the past months, I came to accept that Manny had destroyed himself.

I detest groupthink and political correctness. Makes me want to puke.

We need lots of autonomous nodes (individuals or small groups) competing to find the best fits to nature's dynamic constraints. The only known mathematical system that can solve (converge and optimize) a dynamic system of constraints (equations) is the dynamic free market. Dynamic means a priori information is unavailable. The universe is relavistic, there is no absolute point to measure from. This is root of CoinCube's myopia.

CoinCube has an impossible job of rebutting me. I await his failed attempt in 2 days.

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May 04, 2015, 01:40:57 AM
 #1463

I knew things were bad in terms of student loans in the US, but I had no idea the kind of debt medical practitioners had.

It's an investment. Going into medicine or the medical field can be hugely expensive, but that occupation is also paid ridiculously well. Honestly, in my opinion, they are overpaid. You could further argue that most occupations to pursue and get degrees in are expensive, but as I said, they compensate you well in the long run. That's the problem in the US, high costs for college and upper tier education gives no motivation for people to take that huge investment risk.

This was probably the most thread-relevant post today. Apologies for commenting to it last. I first was dumping my thoughts from yesterday's boxing megamatch to clear my mind of what I had retained.

My stance is that all licensed professions are a scam on society. They are the means by which a smaller group parasites on the society.

I believe these professions will die with the one-world reserve currency in the Knowledge Age. They will be replaced by free market solutions which perform much better.

Already IBM's Watson is outperforming human doctors at lung cancer diagnosis.

There is so much specialized knowledge that human doctors miss, such as the high dose vitamin D3 cure for my Multiple Sclerosis.

I think it is inevitable that the Western medical systems will turn into a eugenics systems after 2020 or so (Weimar Germany proved this what happens with socialized medicine). The Asian medical systems will be much more frugal and self-responsibility oriented.

The smartest will go into the Knowledge Age and find more efficient means of education than the university.

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May 04, 2015, 01:48:05 AM
 #1464

In no world of magical math does that work out which is why student loan defaults are at an all time high of around 27% and why it a certainty that the government will eventually get around to bailing out these borrowers.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/15/study-over-27-of-student-loans-are-in-default/

Yet the debt still won't be discharged, thus the youth will be indentured servants to the US federal govt. Think Hillary Clinton's "Little Village" of make-work fascist, communism coming...

Fourth Reich is rising.

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May 04, 2015, 01:55:03 AM
 #1465

CoinCube has an impossible job of rebutting me. I await his failed attempt in 2 days.


"If you practice you can win every battle." - Manny Pacquiao   Cool

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May 04, 2015, 05:27:56 AM
Last edit: May 04, 2015, 05:46:20 AM by bigtimespaghetti
 #1466

The real tragedy is the massive and rising cost of undergrad education. Undergraduate degrees despite the hype do not lead to guaranteed high income jobs unless you are smart about what you study and are good at what you do.


It is similar in the UK. Except the loans are government (tax payer) backed. Fees have at least tripled in ten years, probably quadrupled (I haven't checked recently). Though the repayments are automatic (depending on your income/tax) it's less burdensome in terms of repayment and interest  than the US, but has still warped the educational institutions. I think anyone giving it a few minutes of thought understands it's a cynical government program to prevent unemployment numbers from growing as fast as they would without somewhere to funnel unwitting students.
To say that 10% of my peers (out of 5-700) gained employment commensurate with their area of study would be very generous.

edit: google 'project hero student loans' for some truly nauseating scheming by the authority to milk those indebted by retroactively changing their terms of the loan to raise the interest (UK), I don't think this would stand in court but it would not surprise me to see similar initiatives on the horizon.




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manselr
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May 04, 2015, 05:20:59 PM
 #1467

Taxes are for little people, as well as consequences.

The Gang Banksters blew a bubble and siphoned off all the mass murder technology they could ever desire, if their desires could be limited, and now it is time to save the remaining resources for themselves...  and out of hands like yours (and mine).

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May 04, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
 #1468

But what are you going to do once we are literally forced to deploy some marxist-like measures like minimum guaranteed welfare once automation makes it impossible to go above a certain treshhold of unemployment? Assuming you are not delusional enough to think there will be enough jobs for everyone, and assuming you are not a psychopath that would let that big % of people die when they aren't responsible of being replaced by machines (your or some of your friends could be on this % in the future), what are you going to do? shoot yourself because history and technological developments forces us to give welfare proving some of your dogmas wrong? get some perspective buddy.

The solution is simple. There will be too many jobs (in fact there are already way more jobs than there are skilled on people on earth[1]) but many people will refuse to adapt and won't attain necessary skills. Those hard-headed Marxists will huddle together in a bankrupted welfare one-world morass and effectively kills themselves with State war and eugenics. There is nothing I could possibly do to save them. They will try to steal resources from everyone and bring everything down into the abyss with them. Problem solved by nature (and a pandemic might help out too).

With so many making posts like yours it is clear to see why the world is going to fall into a severe abyss.

[1]http://www.quora.com/Are-there-too-many-or-not-enough-programmers-in-the-world
http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/05/if-theres-a-shortage-of-programmers-why-arent-wages-up.html
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/write-code-get-paid/


Are you literally brain dead? We are heading towards increased perpetual unemployment due automation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

It doesn't take rocket science PhD levels of intellect to see how we are headed towards a dead end within the current system.
And no, not everyone is going to be able to magically become programmers. Me for example, im unable to program, my brain is just not wired that way. You are legitimately delusional if you think all we need is making all those factory workers, taxi drivers, and the long list becoming programmers, just lol. And lol if you think all those simple tier programmers aren't going to get automated as well.
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May 04, 2015, 06:50:01 PM
 #1469

But what are you going to do once we are literally forced to deploy some marxist-like measures like minimum guaranteed welfare once automation makes it impossible to go above a certain treshhold of unemployment? Assuming you are not delusional enough to think there will be enough jobs for everyone, and assuming you are not a psychopath that would let that big % of people die when they aren't responsible of being replaced by machines (your or some of your friends could be on this % in the future), what are you going to do? shoot yourself because history and technological developments forces us to give welfare proving some of your dogmas wrong? get some perspective buddy.

The solution is simple. There will be too many jobs (in fact there are already way more jobs than there are skilled on people on earth[1]) but many people will refuse to adapt and won't attain necessary skills. Those hard-headed Marxists will huddle together in a bankrupted welfare one-world morass and effectively kills themselves with State war and eugenics. There is nothing I could possibly do to save them. They will try to steal resources from everyone and bring everything down into the abyss with them. Problem solved by nature (and a pandemic might help out too).

With so many making posts like yours it is clear to see why the world is going to fall into a severe abyss.

[1]http://www.quora.com/Are-there-too-many-or-not-enough-programmers-in-the-world
http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/05/if-theres-a-shortage-of-programmers-why-arent-wages-up.html
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/write-code-get-paid/


Are you literally brain dead? We are heading towards increased perpetual unemployment due automation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

It doesn't take rocket science PhD levels of intellect to see how we are headed towards a dead end within the current system.
And no, not everyone is going to be able to magically become programmers. Me for example, im unable to program, my brain is just not wired that way. You are legitimately delusional if you think all we need is making all those factory workers, taxi drivers, and the long list becoming programmers, just lol. And lol if you think all those simple tier programmers aren't going to get automated as well.

Hmmph can't believe that I am sticking up for TPTB (must be my ego) but he is right on this one. If automation is more productive then it can not be turned off or never built just to keep people working. Automation is what gave us a lot of what makes society more comfortable. Automation is allowing us to communicate right now.

If unemployment is caused because of automation then so be it. Get trained to work on the components of automation building and/or maintenance otherwise step aside and retire and/or die.

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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May 04, 2015, 06:56:45 PM
Last edit: May 04, 2015, 07:12:05 PM by bigtimespaghetti
 #1470

But what are you going to do once we are literally forced to deploy some marxist-like measures like minimum guaranteed welfare once automation makes it impossible to go above a certain treshhold of unemployment? Assuming you are not delusional enough to think there will be enough jobs for everyone, and assuming you are not a psychopath that would let that big % of people die when they aren't responsible of being replaced by machines (your or some of your friends could be on this % in the future), what are you going to do? shoot yourself because history and technological developments forces us to give welfare proving some of your dogmas wrong? get some perspective buddy.

The solution is simple. There will be too many jobs (in fact there are already way more jobs than there are skilled on people on earth[1]) but many people will refuse to adapt and won't attain necessary skills. Those hard-headed Marxists will huddle together in a bankrupted welfare one-world morass and effectively kills themselves with State war and eugenics. There is nothing I could possibly do to save them. They will try to steal resources from everyone and bring everything down into the abyss with them. Problem solved by nature (and a pandemic might help out too).

With so many making posts like yours it is clear to see why the world is going to fall into a severe abyss.

[1]http://www.quora.com/Are-there-too-many-or-not-enough-programmers-in-the-world
http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/05/if-theres-a-shortage-of-programmers-why-arent-wages-up.html
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/write-code-get-paid/


Are you literally brain dead? We are heading towards increased perpetual unemployment due automation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

It doesn't take rocket science PhD levels of intellect to see how we are headed towards a dead end within the current system.
And no, not everyone is going to be able to magically become programmers. Me for example, im unable to program, my brain is just not wired that way. You are legitimately delusional if you think all we need is making all those factory workers, taxi drivers, and the long list becoming programmers, just lol. And lol if you think all those simple tier programmers aren't going to get automated as well.

At the risk of sounding trite, a Knowledge Age does not have to be just about programming. Sites like Etsy show a demonstrable demand for personalised products. Yes it's hard to make a living that way, but the convulsions from automation are one of many headwinds facing society. Many unskilled jobs have been protected by the state for years- at the expense of those more productive. I've retaken the Jung/Myers Briggs personality test and apparently I'm INFJ/INTJ so I understand your concern for people but there doesn't seem to be a pretty way to resolve any of this. It may be best to give society less pity (part of the reason we are in this mess) and let it try and repair itself without top-down measures. For example the state getting out of the way here is now referred to as a 'miracle'. Perhaps not entirely appropriate, but I see some similarities.




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May 04, 2015, 07:48:46 PM
 #1471

...

In honor (really!) of CoinCube, I started a thread on a similar topic: "Economic Totalitarianism" nearby.

My intention for practical ideas that many/most of us can actually DO at a personal level to defend ourselves against the War on CA$H, ZIRP/NIRP, etc.

My intention and hope is for practical ideas that anyone (or almost anyone) can do, and to avoid esoterica found here ("Marxism") that is difficult for me to even understand...

Smiley

I (we all) already know that our pals at .gov are trying to steal all they can from us by almost any means necessary.  So let´s share some ideas and tools...



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May 04, 2015, 08:41:41 PM
 #1472

State capitalism is not the best social system.
The West foolishly thought to exploit the rest of the planet without the others react.
First Asia then South America and Africa,what matters is the geopolitics.
Empires always fall, is nature.






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May 04, 2015, 08:56:55 PM
 #1473

State capitalism is not the best social system.
The West foolishly thought to exploit the rest of the planet without the others react.
First Asia then South America and Africa,what matters is the geopolitics.
Empires always fall, is nature.







Very true, though they may last long they always fail.

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May 05, 2015, 11:41:37 AM
Last edit: May 05, 2015, 12:24:26 PM by CoinCube
 #1474

CoinCube's Contention: Life Prioritizes Energy over Entropy

Your subordination of entropy to a 2nd class citizen of physics and nature is abomination and travesty of science and philosophical inquiry.

You have raised multiple heated argument against my prior essay on life and entropy. As your writing style is somewhat fluid I have broken your arguments into ten primary vectors of attack. I will address each in turn.

#1 Entropy is not mixedupness. The fractal nature of life leads to an irreversible trend of entropy towards maximum information content.

The interpretation of entropy in statistical mechanics is a measure of uncertainty, or mixedupness that remains about a system after its observable macroscopic properties, such as temperature, pressure, and volume, have been taken into account. The term mixedupness was coined by Josiah Willard Gibbs. Gibbs was the first to study the idea of expressing the internal energy of a system in terms of entropy.

You certainly can make the case that thermodynamic entropy as explained by statistical mechanics should be seen as an application of Shannon's information theory with thermodynamic entropy interpreted as the amount of further Shannon information needed to define the detailed microscopic state of the system. This is the argument of Edwin Thompson Jaynes and it may be correct. That argument, however, does not change the fact that at the simple physical level entropy is mixedupness. This definition is useful as it highlights how in its pure form entropy is of limited use to life.

#2 Life creates knowledge and thus increases entropy. Life spawns new information content that cannot be prediction a priori by the prior information content and thus the process of life is an entropic process.

I agree that the process of life increases entropy. All reactions and events that occur in the universe must increase entropy. Regarding knowledge creation, however, the presentation of thaaanos upthread appears to be the most accurate. Information is not created it is discovered, or carved out of the entropy of the universe. When two actors come together and communicate it is done by sharing a state, not flow but entanglement. Their later computation is based on the new information does not increase information content it simply shifts focus.

#3 The condition of life is higher entropy than the condition of death. The information needed to describe life is orders of magnitude greater. Life is dynamic and interacting and dust does not have more microstates.

I would challenge this assertion. A 70 kg body has approximately 7*1027 atoms. That is, 7 followed by 27 zeros: 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

In the body these atoms are aranged in a highly structured and ordered array that interacts with the environment in limited and controlled ways. The skin for example is an effective barrier preventing reactions with most outside agents. The amount of information needed to describe the interaction of 7*1027 free floating atoms with their environment dramatically exceed that required to describe a single highly organized and predictable living organism.

#4 Measuring efficiency in terms of energy is myopic, because for example I can achieve near to 100% efficiency for transferring energy from reservoir (eg. battery) to another but that has not achieved anything useful. The useful work as far as nature is concerned is the increase in entropy.

This is a good example because it highlights the difference between energy and entropy. You can transfer energy from one reservoir to another you may even be able to do it with a 99.9% efficiency but always some energy will be lost. With this loss the entropy of the universe has increased. However, as you stated you have not achieved anything useful and actually have less usable energy. Life is concerned not with entropy but with energy. Entropy is simply a tool life uses to climb to higher levels of order and potential energy.

#5 Entropy is not an agnostic soup from which order rises. Nothing in the universe is absolute everything is relative. Generalized, global efficiency is the maximizing of entropy. Over the longer term systems self-organize (anneal) to prioritize global efficiency by elimination Cosaian barriers.

Let me rephrase my argument using your wording from Understand Everything Fundamentally. Life is an unsustainable internal order that will continue as long as it is able to defend frictional barriers against the more efficient external possibility of non life. Thus life is consistent with entropy and is a temporary local order that exhibits higher potential energy. These local increases in order are logistic meaning that due to Coase's theory grow in an S curve exponentially, stagnate then tend to disintegrate, as eventually the mechanism which is propping up the internal inefficiency succumbs to the external universal entropic force.

#6 Entropy is not referentially transparent aka it is an opaque context.

You have yet to provide an argument to back this assertion.

#7 Entropy not just 3D spatial order the frame-of-reference. You must also account for entropy measured over every dimension including the time and network effect domains. Entities that are creating the most entropy in their system decide what is entropy and what is not.

The time dimension is included in the definition of entropy for without allowing time to progress entropy is fixed and does not change. Observers watching a semi-closed system from different points in the universe may disagree on the rate entropy was changing but that difference would be predictable and consistent with special relativity. Observers with different knowledge of possible microstates may also disagree in their estimates of entropy. However, in this event the observer with knowledge of the largest number of microstates would be the most accurate. I suspect your argument regarding network effects can be challenged in a similar manner but you will first need to further define what you mean by the "network effect domain".

#8 Reed's law proves that entropy is growing faster than potential energy can. Networks grow at a greater complexity scale then the cost of the networks.

Entropy always grows faster than potential energy this is true via the second law of thermodynamics. There have been many unproven estimates that attempt to measure the "value" of networks. These estimates include Reed's Law, Metcalfe's Law, Odlyzko Estimate, and Sarnoff's Law. These so call laws are mutually exclusive attempts to guess the value of network effects. None of them deserve to be called a law as none of them have come anywhere close to meeting that high scientific standard. Furthermore what these guesses attempt to measure is the value of networks to network participants. As in the case of the battery example above what is valuable to network participants is not entropy but potential energy.

#9 There is no convergence if entropy exceeds the rate the system can anneal. This is true if there is a top-down controller or not. I do not need to deny that in order to be correct in my argument against top down monopolies.

I have never argued for a pure top down monopoly. Such a situation would be equivalent to a life form that did not mutate or evolve. It would be fixed and static and unable to adapt. This is the polar opposite of extreme entropy that exceeds the ability of a system to anneal. The optima is somewhere between these extremes. What I have argued for is not monopoly but some level of top down stewardship to ensure that the search through entropy is maximized yet limited to levels that allow the system to converge. Even at entropy levels levels below the error threshold pure anarchism risks reducing long term optimization/adaptation as it excessively steepens the fitness curve. This drives all participants to the nearest local optima effectively raising the barriers to distant more global solutions. The proper role of socialism is to help ensure trailblazers survive long enough to eliminate economic friction. In a landscape with an extremely steep fitness curve those individuals may not survive or succeed. Crossing these barriers involves significant cost and we can get stuck in a higher valley of the N dimensional solution space.

The key point is that anarchism does not eliminate all the necessary barriers to maximize long term efficiency. Instead it forces conformity to the nearest local optima effectively raising barriers to distant more global optima.

#10 Collectivism leads to moral hazard and thus should be eliminated.

Collectivism plays a needed role and should be improved and limited to reduce its current inefficiencies. How much collectivism is optimal is a challenging question but I would argue nature has provided us a useful model in the human brain. Characterizing the non neuronal cells in the body as dumbed-down and under control of a top-down monopoly would be a gross oversimplification. The brain is only under the illusion it is in control. The reality is our brains have been granted a very limited stewardship and the absolute minimal amount of control necessary to achieve specific goals.

The human body is a masterpiece of evolution. Our lives are possible due to a vast interplay of complex interactions that occur completely outside of our control and until recently our awareness. Blood glucose regulation, thyroid function, fluid balance, and immune response are just a handful of the multitude of reactions that occur automatically and without conscious thought. The vast majority of body functions are carried out by autonomous cells which is why brain dead individuals can potentially survive for decades if they are provided nutrition.

Nature has limited our top down control to a minimum number of critical functions:
1) Determination of physical location (Ensuring the collective can relocate if the need arises)
2) Ensuring continual energy intake (Global analysis of resource utilization and availability to ensure current and future supply)
3) Avoiding predators (Avoiding and if necessary fighting off large scale external threats)
4) Raising offspring (Ensuring reproduction and the survival of offspring)

These are the problems and challenges nature had decided are best dealt with top down. For the higher order life form called civilization I suspect that nature is correct and that these challenges, at the global civilization level, are most efficiently dealt with centrally. Outside of these limited roles we should work towards constantly minimizing top-down control. Just as we cannot top down control our immune system it is not optimal for government to top down control law enforcement. We should strive to gradually make this function independent. This is not a call to eliminate law enforcement as immunocompromised organisms do not survive long; rather, it is an argument for a gradual transition to community oriented law enforcement that is accountable locally. Just as our brains have almost no ability to micromanage individual cells. We should likewise work towards minimizing the role of government in our everyday lives.

Our current problems have arisen because our civilization is relatively new and unevolved. Instead of an intelligent government we are blessed with one that is mentally handicapped. This low IQ government has also developed a nasty addiction to the toxic beverage called debt. Most of us here on bitcointalk are the equivalent of a dissident minor neural cluster. We are the moment of hesitation the alcoholic feels as he is eagerly downing his third bottle of vodka. We should strive to convert the rest of the neural structure once it hits rock bottom (reset) and is more amenable to change. The long term solution is education.

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May 06, 2015, 01:23:34 AM
 #1475

And no, not everyone is going to be able to magically become programmers. Me for example, im unable to program, my brain is just not wired that way.

Marketing is much more lucrative than programming.

If you can't do any genre of creative work, then yes you are redundant and will be phased out. Manual labor is going away. Future work will all require creative thought (because it can't be automated).

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May 06, 2015, 01:53:36 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2015, 09:35:47 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1476

That argument, however, does not change the fact that at the simple physical level entropy is mixedupness.

The fact that you as an observer have not measured all the information in a system does not mean the system is uncertain, rather it means you are uncertain. Please understand the distinction is with the information the observer has, not the information the system has.

Btw, this lack of total information (uncertainty) is precisely why a top-down observer can't ever optimize the system and only autonomous agents can.

This definition is useful as it highlights how in its pure form entropy is of limited use to life.

That does not logically follow.

Information is not created it is discovered, or carved out of the entropy of the universe.

Shannon entropy which is a measure of the maximum information content of the system is a measure of the granularity of distribution of the POSSIBILITIES. Increasing the granularity of the possibilities by increasing the number of realizable interactions in a network (where Reed's law came into the discussion) thus increases the entropy. The entropy wasn't increased before it was increased, so that is nonsense to say information was harvested from entropy, because they are one in the same per the mathematical definition of Shannon entropy.

The amount of information needed to describe the interaction of 7*1027 free floating atoms with their environment dramatically exceed that required to describe a single highly organized and predictable living organism.

Atoms don't exist in such imaginary free floating state in the universe, unless exorbitant amounts of energy are used to free and sustain them from their top-down structures.

Thus you are comparing an information content that does not exist to one that exists. If you compare materials that actually exist, the entropy of some dead material compared to that of living organisms, the latter is orders-of-magnitude higher.

P.S. it is claimed there are 7017 islands in the Philippines. My mind sees the 7*1027 above with the 0 transposed with the 1 and the 2 removed.

...but always some energy will be lost. With this loss the entropy of the universe has increased.

If the entropy (information content) of the system increased, then it means it some Butterfly Effect (dominoes) impact on the information content of the system and thus life.

However, as you stated you have not achieved anything useful and actually have less usable energy. Life is concerned not with entropy but with energy. Entropy is simply a tool life uses to climb to higher levels of order and potential energy.

You got that transposed. Life is concerned with information content (otherwise nothing exists! figure that one out) and energy is simply a constraint (friction) that life uses to create entropy. Without friction, all information would collapse into an infinitesimal point in spacetime and poof everything would cease to exist.

As in the case of the battery example above what is valuable to network participants is not entropy but potential energy.

No it is the existence and information content that matter to network participants, but in the small they need to deal with constraints along the way of maximizing their contribution to the information content (evolution) of life.

The time dimension is included in the definition of entropy for without allowing time to progress entropy is fixed and does not change.

The possibilities when computing the Shannon entropy also include all the variants of possibilities over different time intervals. Thus entropy is not something that happens separate from time. You have entirely the wrong simpleton conceptualization. You are thinking that entropy is a separate axis from time, i.e. that entropy is measurable at instances of time; whereas, the reality is that entropy encapsulates spacetime (they are holistically inextricable). Think about it, how would you measure time without any reference point, yet the information content determines your relativity reference point. As Einstein said, "Future and past are but a convincing illusion".

I have never argued for a pure top down monopoly.

Max Weber's canonical definition of government which has never been improved upon, is the "government is a monopoly on force".

I will stop there for now.

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May 06, 2015, 09:40:30 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2015, 11:53:00 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #1477

CoinCube this will end up as a drawn out philosophical debate which I don't think the readers are much interested in.

That is why I suggested this really needs to wait for when I might have the time to write an essay or series of essays or more formally develop some mathematical arguments.

Life prioritizes entropy because entropy is the antithesis of a uniform (i.e. static) distribution and non-existence. This can not be refuted. But it is sufficiently abstract that you and most others can't see that concretely unless it is spelled out very carefully. I don't have spare time to do it justice right now.

Energy is conserved. It is dead. It only is useful because entropy is created along the way. Period. With only energy and no friction, everything would collapse into a completely static environment. Friction and entropy are intimately related and I need to develop that argument more formally.

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May 06, 2015, 12:18:57 PM
 #1478

Erdogan, they can't take away the internet entirely as you point out. Because there is too much entropy (a.k.a. life) enabled by the network effects. In short, a million people will be brainstorming how to route around the cancer and reestablish their networked contacts. The network is inherently distributed. Unlike the political morass and central banking which is inherently centralizing.

THX 1138, the Knowledge Age is not just about coding logic. It is about any creative activity that can't be automated. The Knowledge Age is about eliminating the repetitive drudgery so humans can focus on what they do best, which is creativity.

The pathway forward is obvious. The decentralized network can't be stopped by the centralized morass. No the Knowledge Age mavericks will not join the centralized morass! Why the hell would we join their failure. The one-world NWO morass will end up annihilating itself and anyone who depends on it.

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May 06, 2015, 01:22:16 PM
 #1479

CoinCube this will end up as a drawn out philosophical debate which I don't think the readers are much interested in.

That is why I suggested this really needs to wait for when I might have the time to write an essay or series of essays or more formally develop some mathematical arguments.

I wonder if this deferred philosophical debate would lead to the conclusion that life balances the competing priorities of energy and entropy. If it did it would be a conclusion similar to the one we reached the last time we had this debate.

However, having laid out my areas of disagreement especially #5, #9, and #10 which seem to be largest source of our divergence I am content to let the matter rest. I greatly enjoyed your prior essays and look forward to reading a future one.

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May 06, 2015, 02:09:21 PM
 #1480

I really can't do a topic like this properly when I am sleepless from programming and marketing a site launch. I am one guy who is launching something which already encompasses a significant chunk of the feature set of the basic Facebook functionality.

When I wrote those prior essays I was relaxing up in the mountains and had all the time to think and write more carefully.

I really wanted to go beyond my The Universe essay and make some corrections to the "Matter as a Continuum" section. Our discussion has illuminated where I need to drill down in my analysis and hypothesis.

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