Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[bryant.coleman]

Pictures from Slovyansk. Destroyed car column belonging to Right Sector:

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[1715374825]

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[niothor]

Breaking News: 5 people killed in Right Sector attack on Donestk protester checkpost

The fatalities came after a night attack on a protester checkpoint on the outskirts of the city, a Rossiya 24 news channel correspondent reported. Four cars drove by the checkpoint and opened fire at the local residents holding it, killing three people and seriously injuring another one. A group of protesters, who had firearms unlike those holding the checkpoint, was called from their camp in the city. They opened fire at the attackers, killing two of them, the report said. The protesters in the confrontation reportedly captured the attackers’ two cars. Firearms, explosives and aerial photos of Slavyansk were discovered there.

http://rt.com/news/slavyansk-checkpoint-shooting-killed-640

No offense but you're going to tell me that four cars with armed people drive to a checkpoint (what's this middle ages ??)  opened fire , but managed to kill only 3 people and then waited until some people armed (unlike the ones defending the checkpoint) arrived to the scene "from the city" to get shot by them.

Even if you're pro russian... the story sounds very fishy.

It is clear that both sides were armed and it was a clash right from the start.

[bryant.coleman]

No offense but you're going to tell me that four cars with armed people drive to a checkpoint (what's this middle ages ??)  opened fire , but managed to kill only 3 people and then waited until some people armed (unlike the ones defending the checkpoint) arrived to the scene "from the city" to get shot by them.

There were 7-8 people at the check-post. 3 were killed and the rest were injured. Some people escaped by hiding behind the barricades. The second incident took place far away from the check-post. People from the city chased the attackers and destroyed the car column.

[dogechode]

No offense but you're going to tell me that four cars with armed people drive to a checkpoint (what's this middle ages ??)  opened fire , but managed to kill only 3 people and then waited until some people armed (unlike the ones defending the checkpoint) arrived to the scene "from the city" to get shot by them.

Even if you're pro russian... the story sounds very fishy.

It is clear that both sides were armed and it was a clash right from the start.

It sounds to me like one armed group showed up at an area that another armed group intended to deny them access to. They probably argued for a bit and then someone opened fire and a few people got killed and they dispersed/fled. Keep in mind a lot of people involved in this don't necessarily appear to be fully trained and/or organized properly.

[niothor]

No offense but you're going to tell me that four cars with armed people drive to a checkpoint (what's this middle ages ??)  opened fire , but managed to kill only 3 people and then waited until some people armed (unlike the ones defending the checkpoint) arrived to the scene "from the city" to get shot by them.

Even if you're pro russian... the story sounds very fishy.

It is clear that both sides were armed and it was a clash right from the start.

It sounds to me like one armed group showed up at an area that another armed group intended to deny them access to. They probably argued for a bit and then someone opened fire and a few people got killed and they dispersed/fled. Keep in mind a lot of people involved in this don't necessarily appear to be fully trained and/or organized properly.

This was my point.
To claim that in those times the people guarding the check point weren't armed , while the people in center were is absurd.
Why and how the hell were they guarding the checkpoint?

I don't care who were the attackers and why did they attacks. They were just a bunch of idiots just like the others having guns right now.

The point is that all this bs about "unarmed" pro russians militants is pure propaganda .
Both sides are armed and it seems they don't wait too long to choose a target.

[bryant.coleman]

To claim that in those times the people guarding the check point weren't armed , while the people in center were is absurd.

Do these people look like armed mercenaries to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ4ffOWmZpM

Most of the check points were manned by unarmed villagers, while those who occupied the building were armed.

[niothor]

No offense but you're going to tell me that four cars with armed people drive to a checkpoint (what's this middle ages ??)  opened fire , but managed to kill only 3 people and then waited until some people armed (unlike the ones defending the checkpoint) arrived to the scene "from the city" to get shot by them.

There were 7-8 people at the check-post. 3 were killed and the rest were injured. Some people escaped by hiding behind the barricades. The second incident took place far away from the check-post. People from the city chased the attackers and destroyed the car column.

Please re read the quoted article.

The checkpoint was in the control of 26 civilians armed with bats. Their lack of firearms was due to a so-called “Easter truce” announced by both the Kiev authorities and the protest leaders to de-escalate tension.

............

As the civilians were pinned down, a group of 20 protesters with firearms came from the city. They opened fire on the attackers, killing two of them and sent the rest running. Five attackers were injured by the retaliating forces, protest leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryev, said.

It all happened in one place. Plus your numbers wrong... let's try to follow the Russian news ,shall we?

And... there is an mg in the "captured' guns, probably a mg3 as the picture is blurry , but if you've been in the army , 26 civilians hiding from a heavy machine gun behind improvised barricades and only 3 died when they were hunted like wabbits , that is not believable at all.

Give me that gun  and a nice spot under a vehicle and no armed "citizen" would have managed to get near that checkpoint from the city.
The whole story is pure bs.

[Nemo1024]

When I last listened to the retransmissions of their internal chatter (which was, admittedly, a week ago), their block posts did indeed sound like unarmed groups of people of different age sitting at certain points, with volunteers being urged to drive water and food to the block posts. One the of the guys also urged people not to sit on the block posts with all people in full view, with some people being hidden and being able to call in for help, otherwise they risked being gunned down if shooting started.

[bryant.coleman]

As the civilians were pinned down, a group of 20 protesters with firearms came from the city. They opened fire on the attackers, killing two of them and sent the rest running. Five attackers were injured by the retaliating forces, protest leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryev, said.

It all happened in one place. Plus your numbers wrong... let's try to follow the Russian news ,shall we?[/quote]

No where in the article it states that the attackers stood there till the re-inforcements from the city arrived. It was a hit-and-run attack. That explains for the low number of deaths. The attackers were driving on their cars when they got ambushed.

26 civilians hiding from a heavy machine gun behind improvised barricades and only 3 died when they were hunted like wabbits , that is not believable at all.

They were not hunted like wabbits. It was a hit and run attack.

[Balthazar]

To claim that in those times the people guarding the check point weren't armed , while the people in center were is absurd.

Do these people look like armed mercenaries to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ4ffOWmZpM

Awful terrorists! Peacemaker Obama should put them in Guantanamo, to save the world from their evil!

[niothor]

As the civilians were pinned down, a group of 20 protesters with firearms came from the city. They opened fire on the attackers, killing two of them and sent the rest running. Five attackers were injured by the retaliating forces, protest leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryev, said.

It all happened in one place. Plus your numbers wrong... let's try to follow the Russian news ,shall we?

No where in the article it states that the attackers stood there till the re-inforcements from the city arrived. It was a hit-and-run attack. That explains for the low number of deaths. The attackers were driving on their cars when they got ambushed.

26 civilians hiding from a heavy machine gun behind improvised barricades and only 3 died when they were hunted like wabbits , that is not believable at all.

They were not hunted like wabbits. It was a hit and run attack.


Bryant... let's get serious a bit ?!?

Frist your 8 civilians turned to be 20..
Secondary

As the civilians were pinned down, a group of 20 protesters with firearms came from the city. They opened fire on the attackers, killing two of them and sent the rest running. Five attackers were injured by the retaliating forces, protest leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryev, said.

Ok , you know what pinned down , and "while"  mean?

I go to all the trouble of reading the news from both sides , at least please read the news to which you post links.
It'a already clear to me that all pro Russian citizens are angels hunted by the demonic nazi forces in your opinion , but at least....

[bryant.coleman]

I go to all the trouble of reading the news from both sides , at least please read the news to which you post links.
It'a already clear to me that all pro Russian citizens are angels hunted by the demonic nazi forces in your opinion , but at least....

I have read the news and that is why I have posted above. A hit and run attack is different from a full scale attack. I don't know what you think about the right sector fanatics, but in my opinion they are demonic nazi forces.

[Nemo1024]

US Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, in an interview with CNN confirmed that Washington has allocated 5 billion “to support the aspirations of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government.”

http://www.eurasiareview.com/22042014-us-has-invested-5-billion-in-democracy-promotion-in-ukraine-nuland/

Oh yeah:

“This money has been spent to support the desire of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government that represents their interests,” said Nuland. But she stressed that the US “did not spend money to support the Maidan.” According to her, it was a “spontaneous movement”.

[niothor]

US Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, in an interview with CNN confirmed that Washington has allocated 5 billion “to support the aspirations of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government.”

http://www.eurasiareview.com/22042014-us-has-invested-5-billion-in-democracy-promotion-in-ukraine-nuland/

Oh yeah:

“This money has been spent to support the desire of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government that represents their interests,” said Nuland. But she stressed that the US “did not spend money to support the Maidan.” According to her, it was a “spontaneous movement”.

So , 5 mld in 20 years against 35 mld in 4 years.
I think that Russia was "investing" a lot more in Ukraine lately .

[Nemo1024]

US Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, in an interview with CNN confirmed that Washington has allocated 5 billion “to support the aspirations of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government.”

http://www.eurasiareview.com/22042014-us-has-invested-5-billion-in-democracy-promotion-in-ukraine-nuland/

Oh yeah:

“This money has been spent to support the desire of the people of Ukraine to a stronger, democratic government that represents their interests,” said Nuland. But she stressed that the US “did not spend money to support the Maidan.” According to her, it was a “spontaneous movement”.

So , 5 mld in 20 years against 35 mld in 4 years.
I think that Russia was "investing" a lot more in Ukraine lately .

That would only be natural, considering that Ukraine and Russia share a common border, while US is on the other side of the world, and that Ukraine's export to Russia is approx 65% of its total production, while US/Ukrainian trade is non-existent.

You have to remember that in Soviet Union, production lines were pretty much spread over various part of the Union (much like Airbus is produced in multiple countries in EU) and those dependencies did not disappear over night with the proclamation of independent states, so Russia's subsidising Ukraine is pretty much a natural extension of investing in its own economy.

[bryant.coleman]

So , 5 mld in 20 years against 35 mld in 4 years.
I think that Russia was "investing" a lot more in Ukraine lately .

Russia gave the money in the form of gas subsidies and grants to the steel mills. On the other hand, the US money was used to buy weapons and to bribe the local oligarchs. Big difference there.

[Nemo1024]

Just found another Nulandism that goes beyond understanding, from the same CNN interview:

“You can’t compare the situation in Kiev, where now everything that is still being held by protesters is being held with licenses and with the agreement of the government of Ukraine, with the agreement of the Rada, or with regular leases from the owners of the buildings,” Nuland told CNN in an interview.

So:

People holding illegal arms and occupying government buildings are perfectly OK, as long as they are permitted to do so, believes Washington’s top diplomat in Europe. But doing exactly the same thing without permission is bad.

http://rt.com/op-edge/153984-nuland-ukraine-firefighter-arsonists/

[tinus42]

In the US Occupy Wall Street members were labelled "domestic terrorists" by the FBI and dispersed with violence by the NYPD. They did not have the support of Victoria Nudelstein.

[bryant.coleman]

They did not have the support of Victoria Nudelstein.

Talking about Victoria Nudelstein, we have to keep in mind that her husband is Robert Kagan, the co-founder of Project for the New American Century (PNAC). The American invasion of Iraq is widely thought to be planned by the PNAC.

According to critics, including Paul Reynolds, the neoconconservative PNAC aimed to promote American "hegemony" and "full-spectrum" dominance in its publications.

[Nemo1024]

An interesting interview with Lavrov. He usually uses rather soft wording, in line with Roosevelt's maximum of "speak softly and carry a big stick". This time, however, the wording is a bit more strict.

Lavrov: If Russian troops attacked, we'll respond in line with int'l law
http://rt.com/news/154212-lavrov-russia-will-defend-itself/

“If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in accordance with international law,” he said.

“Russian citizens being attacked is an attack against the Russian Federation,” he told RT.

“There is no reason not to believe that the Americans are running the show,” said Lavrov, referencing US Vice President Joe Biden’s visit to Kiev and its coincidence with the renewed counter-terror operation on activists in East Ukraine.

“It’s quite telling they chose the moment of the Vice President of the US’ visit to announce the resumption of this operation because the launching of this operation happened immediately after John Brennon’s [head of the CIA] visit to Kiev,” said Lavrov.

“Ukraine is just one manifestation of the American unwillingness to yield in the geopolitical fight. Americans are not ready to admit that they cannot run the show in each and every part of the globe from Washington alone,” said Lavrov, adding Washington’s “ready-made solutions” cannot remedy a crisis that it does not understand.

This comes in the wake of Kerry telling Lavrov to publicly call the people in the South-East of Ukraine to lay down their arms, and threatening Russia with stronger sanctions in the process:
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/04/23/n_6103125.shtml