Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[Nemo1024]

the US is dragging us towards war with Russia

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger

Hear! Hear!

Every year the American historian William Blum publishes his "updated summary of the record of US foreign policy" which shows that, since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in elections in 30 countries; bombed the civilian populations of 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders.

In many cases Britain has been a collaborator.

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[Nik1ab]

Every year the American historian William Blum publishes his "updated summary of the record of US foreign policy" which shows that, since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in elections in 30 countries; bombed the civilian populations of 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders.

In many cases Britain has been a collaborator.

This was... unexpected.
I wonder how many times the US will surprise me again.

[bryant.coleman]

This is what I've got from the Wikileaks twitter account:

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

Secret cable shows Russia warned the US that NATO enlargement could  split Ukraine in two, creating civil war.

[Nemo1024]

On that note:
Dragging Ukraine into NATO negative for European security - Lavrov
http://rt.com/news/158908-lavrov-russia-ukraine-nato/

“The seeds for the current crisis were sown in 2008 in April during the NATO summit in Bucharest, when NATO leaders stated in a declaration that Georgia and Ukraine would be in NATO,” the senior Russian diplomat told Bloomberg in an interview.

...

“The real aim of the United States is not to let Europeans to go on their own, not to let NATO lose the purpose of its existence and to keep Europe on a short leash,” Lavrov said.

...

“In the east of Ukraine there is a real war with heavy weapons shot. If this is something conducive to free and fair elections, then I don’t understand something in freedom and fairness,” he commented.

“Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians. I believe it is as close to a civil war as it can get,” Lavrov explained, referring to Kiev’s military operation being conducted in the Donetsk Region.
...

“If the West for the sake of revenge is ready to sacrifice its reputation as a reliable partner for the entire world economy and for the entire world financial system, if the United States is prepared to sacrifice its reputation as the holder of the key reserve currency, then it’s up to them to decide,” he said.

Also, Lavrov called the question of Donetsk and Lugansk joining Russia for "hypothetical". Wonder what he meant by that..?
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/14/lavrov/

[niothor]

On that note:
Dragging Ukraine into NATO negative for European security - Lavrov
http://rt.com/news/158908-lavrov-russia-ukraine-nato/

“The seeds for the current crisis were sown in 2008 in April during the NATO summit in Bucharest, when NATO leaders stated in a declaration that Georgia and Ukraine would be in NATO,” the senior Russian diplomat told Bloomberg in an interview.

...

“The real aim of the United States is not to let Europeans to go on their own, not to let NATO lose the purpose of its existence and to keep Europe on a short leash,” Lavrov said.

...

“In the east of Ukraine there is a real war with heavy weapons shot. If this is something conducive to free and fair elections, then I don’t understand something in freedom and fairness,” he commented.

“Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians. I believe it is as close to a civil war as it can get,” Lavrov explained, referring to Kiev’s military operation being conducted in the Donetsk Region.
...

“If the West for the sake of revenge is ready to sacrifice its reputation as a reliable partner for the entire world economy and for the entire world financial system, if the United States is prepared to sacrifice its reputation as the holder of the key reserve currency, then it’s up to them to decide,” he said.

Also, Lavrov called the question of Donetsk and Lugansk joining Russia for "hypothetical". Wonder what he meant by that..?
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/14/lavrov/

If I would have to comment on his : "Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians." statement based on the news from both sides , I would say it more like there are only Russians and Westerns killing each other there .

[bryant.coleman]

Are they nuts?

Ukraine ready to resume water supply to Crimea on its own terms

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/731557

What sort of silly excuse? Seriously. They cut off the drinking water supply because a bill for $146,500 was not paid? Then what should the Gazprom do to them, for not paying the $3 billion gas bill?

[niothor]

Are they nuts?

Ukraine ready to resume water supply to Crimea on its own terms

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/731557

What sort of silly excuse? Seriously. They cut off the drinking water supply because a bill for $146,500 was not paid? Then what should the Gazprom do to them, for not paying the $3 billion gas bill?

April 26, 2014, Ukraine shut the North-Crimean canal, by which Crimea receives 85% of the freshwater it needs

The poor technical condition of the canal reduced the standard throughput of water to just 16 cubic meters by April 26, 2014, when the Ukrainian side blocked the water flow to avenge for Crimea’s reunification with Russia.

So it was 16 mc before the block or after because if it's the first case the numbers sure don't match up.

[Nemo1024]

USA started to search for the "sanctioned" oligarchs' and companies' assets so as to freeze them:
http://www.banki.ru/news/lenta/?id=6595331&r1=rss&r2=rambler.news

One of the reader comments is precious:

"Thank you, USA, for helping Russian law enforcements in their fight with corruption. Thank you very much!"

 

There are actually quite a lot of comments reading along the same lines.

[bryant.coleman]

More positive moves from Putin:

Russia to create Special Economic Zone in Crimea

http://world.einnews.com/article/204738679/x5nlWrUAmvDl2XXn

And meanwhile, the Ukrainians are still whining over the territory.

Ukraine interim leader says loss of Crimea cost $100bn

http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Ukraine_liveblog/115930090

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

[Sithara007]

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

[bryant.coleman]

Recently seeing some sane articles in the Guardian. I am quite surprised.

In Ukraine, the US is dragging us towards war with Russia

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger

(John Pilger is one of the all-time great journalists who was never afraid to speak truth to power. He was there in Central America when the US sent in its covert ops to organize the mass murders of untold numbers of innocent peasants. He's seen firsthand the death, destruction and mayhem that are part and parcel of the US's dirty wars)

[niothor]

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

Why do you think he was referring to the gdp?
If my country would lose Dobrogea , which makes around 7% of the gdp the actual loses would be maybe two times the size of the GDP if you can even count them

Ukraine's interim President Oleksandr Turchynov said Wednesday that Russia's hotly disputed annexation of Crimea in March had cost his country around $100 billion

[Paya]

They are probably counting not only the GDP but also the value of factories, ports, state buildings, land property, infrastructure, tourist centers, natural ressources, etc. Perhaps even expected profits. But I doubt that they can come out with accurate number at this point because it's not an easy calculation. For example Serbia is still studying how much exactly did it lose with the escape of Kosovo: what is certain there is that the rough numbers are MUCH bigger than Kosovo's GDP.

[Nemo1024]

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

That would be one explanation for such outburst.
Crimea was a region that got suckled lifeless by Ukraine. When I visited it in 2012, spending my vacation there, I had a feeling of returning to the end on 1980's. Nothing changed. No improvements. On the contrary, Yalta was a sorry sight, with many buildings ready to fall apart. The infrastructure was collapsing. Sevastopol was sightly better, while Simferopol was even worse.
All that despite a large visible amount of tourists, so the money were coming from tourism, yet none of it went to the development of the peninsula, but got redirected to the Kiev coffers.
By the way, Odessa, when I was there the same year, presented the same sight of neglect as Yalta.

[niothor]

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

That would be one explanation for such outburst.
Crimea was a region that got suckled lifeless by Ukraine. When I visited it in 2012, spending my vacation there, I had a feeling of returning to the end on 1980's. Nothing changed. No improvements. On the contrary, Yalta was a sorry sight, with many buildings ready to fall apart. The infrastructure was collapsing. Sevastopol was sightly better, while Simferopol was even worse.
All that despite a large visible amount of tourists, so the money were coming from tourism, yet none of it went to the development of the peninsula, but got redirected to the Kiev coffers.
By the way, Odessa, when I was there the same year, presented the same sight of neglect as Yalta.

Never been to Ukraine in the '80 but from what i recall my own country resorts during that time and the ones in Batumi , they  looked far better than Yalta in 2011. Although I must say I spent only 2 days there while cruising the Black Sea.So I guess they haven't made any change or restoration since the split from the URSS.

But the loss would be indeed huge , and I doubt you can name a price for the entire territory and the possible revenue they could have made with a bit more interest and work.

[bryant.coleman]

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

[niothor]

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

[Balthazar]

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

We should include Romania into Hungary, because Romania was created by puppets of Ottoman empire using stolen hungarian lands.

[niothor]

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

We should include Romania into Hungary, because Romania was created by puppets of Ottoman empire using stolen hungarian lands.

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that .

[Balthazar]

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that .

Well, it was already placed into trashcan by revisionism followers.

Wallachia (aka Ţara Românească) and Transylvania were parts of Hungarian Kingdom. Hungarian Kingdom was weakened in the beginning of 14th century, as the result an autonomy was received by Wallachia and Transylvania since this period of time. Later these lands were conquered and freed consequently many times. There was a pro-turkish coup in the Romanian Kingdom in 1601, for example