Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[Nemo1024]

How long a new Nation that separated from a another Nation can be called "the different people"?. For example South Korea and North Korea are also "the same people" but because of different political and social ideology they are not the same (not anymore at leas).

North Korea has been an independent country for longer than Ukraine, which is a separate state only since 1992.

The borders of present day Ukraine were decided by Soviet dictators: Lenin and Stalin. (The Hrushov blunder has already been rectified)

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

[Snorek]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

[hdbuck]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.

[bryant.coleman]

The pro-federalization forces in Donetsk & Lugansk say that they will consider Putin's call to delay May 11th referendum. Say have "utmost respect" for Russian president - RTRS. So it seems like the referendum is postponed.

[Snorek]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.

How do You know that these "pro-ukrainians" are really "pro-ukrainians"? When Crimea was being taken from Ukraine the armed men who supposedly where citizens of Crimea where probably Russian soldiers.

[hdbuck]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.

How do You know that these "pro-ukrainians" are really "pro-ukrainians"? When Crimea was being taken from Ukraine the armed men who supposedly where citizens of Crimea where probably Russian soldiers.

well for a start, the people that were burned alive, butchered or raped inside the building werent identified as pro-ukranians.

[Snorek]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.

How do You know that these "pro-ukrainians" are really "pro-ukrainians"? When Crimea was being taken from Ukraine the armed men who supposedly where citizens of Crimea where probably Russian soldiers.

well the people that were burned alive, butchered or raped inside the building werent identified as pro-ukranians.

Again how do You know that? who was doing the identifications? how do You that the killers where not... lets say a Russian agents in disguise?

[hdbuck]

Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.

How do You know that these "pro-ukrainians" are really "pro-ukrainians"? When Crimea was being taken from Ukraine the armed men who supposedly where citizens of Crimea where probably Russian soldiers.

well the people that were burned alive, butchered or raped inside the building werent identified as pro-ukranians.

Again how do You know that? who was doing the identifications? how do You that the killers where not... lets say a Russian agents in disguise?

If they had any proof or even doubt about it being the result of some russian action, be sure that it would have hit all western newspaper's front pages. but yet nothing... they just burried it all.

[Rassah]

Yes, because you need to remember who actually started seizing government buildings in the first place.

The... Uh... Pro-ukraine Ukrainians started seizing Ukrainian government buildings? What's wrong with that?

As for your history allegations. Your interpretation of Russian history is in complete discord with both Russian and Western historians.

It's only in discord with Russian historians, because Russia was the one who made it up. For example, why is it that the Golden Horde, which attacked and destroyed anyone who resisted them, attacked and destroyed Ukraine, but completely ignored Moscow for a hundred years? The only explanation, which actually has evidence to support it, is that the monarchy of Moscow acquiesced to and subjugated itself to the Hun. Russian origins are Mongolian, with the khanate controlling Moscow and what is now Russia for centuries, completely separate from Kievan Rus, which Moscow repeatedly attacked.

[Snorek]

If they had any proof or even doubt about it being the result of some russian action, be sure that it would have hit all western newspaper's front pages. but yet nothing... they just burried it all.

I don't know where You live but I guess the more to the west You live the less You will hear about it. But there are is some info about it
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/08/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA370RU20140408

[hdbuck]

If they had any proof or even doubt about it being the result of some russian action, be sure that it would have hit all western newspaper's front pages. but yet nothing... they just burried it all.

I don't know where You live but I guess the more to the west You live the less You will hear about it. But there are is some info about it
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/08/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA370RU20140408

okay you are right, reuters and US politicians are known for their objectivity.
i live in france and they just said over 30 persons were killed in odessa. our medias didnt specified from which side they were but each time its been pro-ukranians casualties they just kept on shouting it for days - well, except for this time.

anyho, im just saying thats not how you protect your citizens. if the new ukranian goverment cant federate shit then they arent legitimate and should leave it to more peaceful people. after all they just toke the power using violence. being from *the* country that invented the concept of modern revolution, i cant assure you that it's just not worth it. oh and you just can take a look at all the Middle east countries that recently experienced revolutions..... its fucked up there too. thank you USA and democracy. (oh and US paid mercenaries and terrorists...)

[Balthazar]

there are no differences between "russians" and "ukrainians", it's the same people

Yes, all historical sources dating back to the 9th century are indicating that the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are the same people. It's something really hard to dispute, not even the most ridiculous extreme modern historical revisionists dare to claim that they're not. They share Kievan Rus' as their common ancestry.

Which, of course, doesn't mean that they must stand under one flag, nor that the strongest state has some kind of natural right to rule the other two  

It is like saying that there is no difference between Germany and Austria. They speak the same language and are practically the same nation. And why there are so many muslim countries when all muslims are the same? One religion, one language similar beliefs?

Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs were created by Lenin as the artificial  buffer states between RSFSR and the west. The same is correct for Far-East Republic between RSFSR and Japan. These states served their buffer purpose and also allowed Bolsheviks to get additional votes in the international organizations.

Austria is a result of WW1, empire was divided to make it weaker;
Turkey and neighborhood were created from Ottoman Empire to make it weaker;

An arabic states case is quite different. The most of these states have preserved original borders before arabic expansion... France, UK are soon to be turned into arabic states in the same way, while keeping original borders.

[Rassah]

I'm sorry for strong words, but I'm reading your messages during long time and I have to say this. There is a difference between blind faith and knowledge. It's unfortunately but you have nothing more than obsession with faith into your own perverted version of history, while I possess the knowledge. If you don't know something then ask two opposite persons at least and make your choice without using any emotional experience from the past. If you wish to become someone greater than ignorant fanatic, then you have to forget everything what you have seen in BBC, CNN, bullshit textbooks and start analyze facts, you must be able to think without any help from anybody.

I don't watch BBC, CNN, or read bullshit textbooks. You guys should stop reading bullshit from rt.com and other Russian propaganda machines. It's nice that you think you have learned "knowledge," but it was likely just more made up bullshit, sorry to tell you. Mine is not faith, but your is likely myth and made up propaganda.

Talking about your question... I don't believe, I know it. There were no nationality and language issues during the last 70 years at least.

Could that have been due to the fact that Ukraine was forcefully occupied as part of the USSR, and any dissent got you a one way ticket to a Siberian gulag???

 

You are talking about "russians" while having no idea that there are no differences between "russians" and "ukrainians", they are the same people.

I suppose next you're going to tell me that Mexicans and Americans (east-coast colonial) are the same people?

They were on these lands even before Russian Empire was formed.

That's the lie that Russia made up way in the 1700's. On Ukrainian lands was Kievan Rus. On Russian lands were Finish tribes, then a knyaz who had no allegiance to Ukraine, then a bunch more knyazy who were aligned with Mongolian khanate, NOT Ukraine. Did you even read this? http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/1361141.html I had 4+ years of studying Ukraine's history, culture, and geography, but that is a good summary of the Russian counterpart. Sorry to disappoint you, but Russia doesn't have the glorious history they tried to write for themselves.

And nobody had any problem before your fucken EU decided to fund nazi parties in the beginning of 1990s and then stage a nazi coup here.

Really? NOBODY had any problems? Not even from the widespread corruption? Or during the Orange Revolution? And everyone was just fine with Yanukovich scrapping the constitution and trying to give himself dictatorial powers? That last one is the #1 reason that the Maidan revolution happened, and the #1 reason that people there, including my friends, were protesting and supporting the protests. Not because of some made up Nazi bullshit.

Remove the junta, ban nazi parties and everybody will go home. It's the only possible solution, and east will do it eventually anyway... Through creating new federative state or another coup, time will tell.

How do you even know that there are Nazi parties there? What's the difference between a Nazi, and a Ukrainian who, after being forcefully subjected to 70 years of Russian Soviet rule, and 20 more years of Russian-supported communist political leaders, now distrusts Russians? My friends and relatives from Ukraine don't see many Nazis. Maybe a small insignificant group at best (just like USA has KKK, but they are insignificant). The most they see is severe distrust of Russian government and their propaganda.

[Nemo1024]

An interesting move by Putin:

Putin calls for end to Kiev’s military op, postponing referendum in E. Ukraine
http://rt.com/news/157404-putin-ukraine-crisis-kiev/

"Russia believes that the crisis, which originated in Ukraine and is now actively developing in accordance with the worst-case scenario, is to be blamed on those who organized the coup in Kiev on 22-23 February and still do not care to disarm the right-wing and nationalist elements," the president said.

Direct dialogue between Kiev and anti-government protesters in southeast Ukraine is key to ending the crisis, Putin said.

It is now essential to create “to create the necessary conditions for this dialogue,” he added.

“We are calling for southeast Ukraine representatives, supporters of federalization of the country, to postpone the May 11 referendum to create the necessary conditions for dialogue,” Putin said at a press conference with OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss President Didier Burkhalter in Moscow.

In response to Putin’s offer, one of the leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Denis Pushilin, said the possibility would be discussed Thursday.

“We respect Putin’s position. He is a balanced politician. So we will submit this proposal tomorrow to the people’s council,” he said. 

[Paya]

Obviously, Putin had it enough and is seeking his way out. Taking Crimea might easily prove to be Russian Pyrrhic victory.

[bryant.coleman]

Obviously, Putin had it enough and is seeking his way out. Taking Crimea might easily prove to be Russian Pyrrhic victory.

Too early to say that. If he does something like that, his popularity back home in Russia will take a severe beating. That said, he had put some pre-conditions to the Kiev-junta, such as completely stopping the ongoing operations against civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk. Not sure whether Tymoshenko and her servants would agree to it.

[Nemo1024]

Obviously, Putin had it enough and is seeking his way out. Taking Crimea might easily prove to be Russian Pyrrhic victory.

I doubt it. Surrendering Crimea, seeing Simferopol becoming a NATO naval base would have been a devastating blow to Crimeans. The cost was much higher when Russia returned Crimea from German Fascist occupation. What Russia loses? Goodwill of the West? It didn't have it since... well, never. What it gains? It's territory of the last 300 years and people who've had it enough with Ukrainian rule.

(Oh, and Crime might prove useful in EuroVision as Crimeans still vote on behalf of Ukraine, so Russia is going to get several hundred thousand, maybe up to a million votes from there.  )

Besides, the question of Novorossia is not yet over. He speaks about postponing the referendum, not cancelling it. Peace is the same condition for a legitimate referendum as it is for pan-Ukrainian presidential election.

Case in point:
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/05/07/n_6136733.shtml

[bryant.coleman]

Yet another proof that the anti-Russian propaganda is not working:

Russia Today becomes the first news channel to get a billion hits on YouTube!

[Snorek]

Too early to say that. If he does something like that, his popularity back home in Russia will take a severe beating. That said, he had put some pre-conditions to the Kiev-junta, such as completely stopping the ongoing operations against civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk. Not sure whether Tymoshenko and her servants would agree to it.

Tymoshenko at present is without any functions in the Ukraine government so why do You imply it's her decision? As for Putin popularity falling in Russian I don't think thats going to happen. When Crimea was taken by Russia many Russian citizens where against that.

[bryant.coleman]

Tymoshenko at present is without any functions in the Ukraine government so why do You imply it's her decision? As for Putin popularity falling in Russian I don't think thats going to happen. When Crimea was taken by Russia many Russian citizens where against that.

1. Oleksandr Turchynov is widely considered as the proxy of Yulia Tymoshenko.

2. Putin's popularity received a boost during the Crimean invasion and currently stands at around 65% (verified by Western media sources). Much higher than Obama and Merkel.

3. I have followed sites like Vkontakte and Russian language discussion forums. More than 95% of the Russians were supportive of Putin's move to annex Crimea. As far as I know, the current mood of the Russian public is even more hawkish than that of Putin.