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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 379085 times)
skycoin
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August 09, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
 #3181

Good post...

Maid has actually no blockchain at all.

And i think closer to getting a full release than people think.

I see everything being effected by IOTA with no blockchain, Instant transactions, no fees and soon smart contracts.

It would be interesting to get your view on how Sky and IOTA compare.

IOTA is POW but not by a miner.

When you do a transaction you POW 2 transactions of others from your own wallet.

Are you aware of IOTA consensus security?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nswo5CurPxA


Skycoin was designed from day one for DAG.

The major problem with DAG, is that there is nothing to upper-bound the CPU/bandwidth usage of the network.

With Skycoin, we can limit the network to use 5 KB/s and we can put hard upper bounds on the CPU, memory and bandwidth usage. This will be very important in a war scenario, submarine cables being cut or if governments start aggressively blocking VPNs and applications.

Or if everything is working correctly, we can do 300 transactions/second or as many as needed. But during stress or crisis, the resource upper bound can be cut back and hard capped. This is really important in many situations.

The biggest threat, is not attacking the network the way people imagine it. The biggest weakness of the existing coin designs is denial of service attack and spamming the network with junk data.

With a tangle/DAG, it is too easy to spam the network with massive amounts of transactions and increase the bandwidth/CPU usage, until nodes start dropping off.

Even if Skycoin moves from blockchain to DAG, we will still be using the consensus infrastructure and created another metric called "CoinHours" to rate limit the global transaction rate.

Whole countries are going to block VPNs, block foreign websites and cut themselves off from the global internet within twenty years. They are going to mandate special domestic network protocols. They will (and are) using machine learning to identify particular types of traffic and drop them, redirect them or cut them off.

The Skycoin architecture was designed for high reliability in a cyber warfare scenario, with active attempts at detection and termination of network connections, fixed CPU/memory constraints and potentially an upper cap on bandwidth.

---

For instance we will have "Sky-messanger" and ability for machine to machine communication by public key
- Sky-messanger will have multiplexer and multiple redundant channels or connection methods available, including CXO mutual pub-sub, direct TCP/ip connection (TOX-like), skywire (multi-hop, pluggable transport, like open-flow), etc

Then we will have an "asynchronous wallet". That runs through sky-messenger. So that even if you do not have enough bandwidth/storage/cpu you can still get wallet updates and inject transactions (thin client). And this will work, even if the network is extremely limited and connectivity is unreliable and available bandwidth is limited. This will even work over SMS channels or HAM radio and will very light.

So we have different "degrees" or level that a node can operate at
- ultra-thin client (ex. mobile wallet that just can check balances and send, get streaming history updates, etc)
- normal node (fixed bandwidth, CPU, RAM upper bounds)
- super-node (cluster of +16 arm boards (the skywire miners), skywire nodes, route topology information, CXO nodes, content (BBS nodes, etc), skycoin thin client access points, dedicated hardware interlinks to other clusters, etc)

So while a normal client only takes input from a finite number of nodes for consensus, etc

A super-node might have subscriptions and peer-to-peer replication of every pubkey/node participating in the whole consensus network. It may also have a full route and topology map for the whole skywire network and would be exposing services and APIs to other nodes.

So we "finished" the blockchain part and then we are expanding out in another direction. The "blockchain" part is "done" for now and the other parts of the network become much more important to the future direction, because there is nothing with the blockchain we can improve beyond the existing architecture/design.

So the low hanging fruit is at the network architecture level, the application layer and we are almost done innovating or making changes with the blockchain layer completely.

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August 09, 2017, 09:19:50 PM
 #3182

I have 2 questions regarding this:

A normal, non-super-node can also receive SKY for being part of the network?

The price for a super-node hardware?
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August 10, 2017, 06:06:49 AM
 #3183

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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August 10, 2017, 08:09:23 AM
 #3184

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


You are right.

6 million coins have been sold.

94 million coins are held by the alias skycoin.

BTC is different becasue the coin release and creation is known in advance and can be predicted into the future.

Here all 100,000,000 coins were created at genesis.

At the current price of 0.01 BTC = $3 per skycoin.

So in the public hands is $18 million dollars worth of coins.

With the devs are 94 x $3 = $282 million dollars worth.

So a total of $300,000,000 market cap.

But of course the ICO is asking double this.


----------------

I think the ICO should have been held at 0.01 BTC.

Would have been a success.

Even though $300,000,000 is still too high for a github alpha only project

---------------

But until there is a coded treasury model built into the system with a set rate of coin release not in the control of anyones whim or available to be dumped, stolen or misused. I cannot see how they can make this an economic success.


http://heatledger.com LIVE ICO 3.0 GENERATION CRYPTO WITH COMPANY STOCK IPO OPTIONS
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August 11, 2017, 02:40:53 AM
 #3185

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Its the same as Bitcoin.

There are existing/issued coins. (ex. 1 million coins exist)

There is a supply or issuance cap (ex. 23 million maximum coins)

There is a tapered and decreasing, relative rate of coin issuance according to a schedule.

---

>So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

We did multi-agent simulations and modeling of this. It is actually a fallacy/misconception.

Because releasing all the coins, would suppress the market price. If we dumped all 100 million coins RIGHT NOW. The market price would still be 23 million.

If the number of coins in circulation is increased 10x, then the price for each coin declines to 10%. That is because what matters is the per capita capital inflows and coins per user.

Increasing number of coins in circulation, does not increase the market cap. It decreases the price per coin.

So for instance, if we have a 20 million dollar valuation right now. AND we increase the user base size by 30x, the valuation will be 600 million (which is where Qtum is right now).

This is why everyone is making so much money investing in altcoins. The userbases are expanding at an exponential rate (new market), that is faster than the debasement from mining rewards.

If we double the number of coins in circulation, then the market cap is the same. The price per coin, just halves.

---

The mathematics is not intuitive and what you expect.

Every time the coins in circulation are doubled, the price per coin goes down 50%. That is why going from 6% to 10% is hard, while keeping the price per coin up (~50% dilution). And why going from 10% to 20% is hard (50% dilution).  But why 20% to 10% and everything after that is easy.

A user base can grow 10x or 100x or 10,000x, easily. It can grow exponentially and nearly infinitely. However, the number of coins that will ever be in circulation can only increase 10x from the point that 10% of Skycoin reach circulation.

The key thing also, is that even given constant user base size, the price increases as the distribution of new coins tapers and declines. This is because of capital flow affects (money into the coin vs money out).

---

So to summarize, the market cap is a constant.

Doubling the coins in circulation (doubling the free float), reduces the price per coin to half (halves the price per coin). The market cap however, stays constant.

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August 11, 2017, 03:00:26 AM
Last edit: August 11, 2017, 03:29:27 AM by skycoin
 #3186

Just one doubt, if the ICO is actually getting a response, why aren't the 40BTC+ of sell orders on topia below 0.002 BTC already taken out? Even whales wouldn't waste money. If they want to buy 100 or even 300 BTC worth of sky, they just need to spend another 2 mins extra to save themselves a lot more BTC by buying out the first 40BTC worth from cryptopia. BTC they could use to get even more sky.

Genuine question, have you managed to actually sell much yet in this distribution?

> Even whales wouldn't waste money.

You cannot actually buy Skycoin on topia.

There are caps and its just a mess. The whole coin price is being rigged by one bot, who will pull out 40 btc of sell orders as soon as the price goes up. You cant actually buy the coins.

He buys when price drops, then sells at $4. Then if you try to go above $4, the bot pulls out the sell orders.

>Genuine question, have you managed to actually sell much yet in this distribution?

This was not meant to sell.

The orders would normally start filling when price appreciates to that level.

This was to solve three problems
1> To test the marketing team.
2> New infrastructure test. This is the new OTC bot backend and will eventually be integrated with the exchange trading and wallet. We set price high, because are not ready for large volume and are still handling bug fixes. Like during start of event, the backend failed for send-to-many transactions and later we found out users were not sending a multiple of 0.002 BTC.
3> Whales and small number of people. The ICO does not matter to much to them, because they are going to do OTC anyways.

Marketing Team:

Another very important objective is to use this event to test the marketing team. And see where there are capacity gaps and what is working and what is not working.

We have to keep drilling them, until everything work smoothly. And we have to find out if we are missing skills, or do not have enough people.

They failed completely last two attempts at an event. This time did a bit better, but we still probably only have 50% staffing and they are still uncoordinated and ineffective.

They had two weeks to get ICO site listings up and waited until 4 days before the ICO event to start getting it listed on the ICO websites. However, they did get Skycoin listed on 8 of the 12 ICO websites.

We do not have a full time infographics/vector graphics/marketing person, for producing materials for twitter/telegram/facebook. And that is a major shortcoming we are trying to fill. We have hundreds of info-graphics and technical diagrams that need to be made into production/marketing content.

We have two vector graphics people and they did not invoice or bill hours for a month, meaning no one was using them. So we have +150 infographics and content, but no one on the marketing team was making sure this was produced into something we could distribute on social media or use on the website. So this pipeline needs to be filled out immediately and we need to determine why this is not getting done.

We also have a major documentation gap on the website
- there is no page for skywire
- there is no page for cxo
- there is no page or index for the github repos
- there is no dedicated page for viscript
- there is no dedicated page for the skywire/miner hardware
- there is no dedicated page for the bbs app
- there is no dedicated page and documentation for CX
- etc

So we have assigned the development teams to start making sketches and writing text for pages to go on the website and explain what is done and what is the purpose of each of the components.

Then there is only a single web designer and he is overloaded. He cannot handle the volume of content and changes, so we need to get more than one person.

Translations were quick and went very well for Russia, Chinese, Korean, etc. Our translation pipeline is working very well.

Our twitter was not working until 4 days before the ICO There are now constant tweets.

We still do not have a reddit community and are trying to obtain the sub-reddit, but it is a slow process.

The facebook and twitter ads have not started yet. CoinTelegraph ads have not started yet. None of the ad campaigns were ready by the start of the ICO

We have no video production group/capacity yet. Even through we hired people months ago to do story board and production, they were ineffective. So need to find people able to get this done. However, everyone is telling us that the videos do not matter too much for marketing and are a waste of time/money.

We have no one making ad copy and banner ads. And we need team member for this. It is major bottleneck. The are reusing ad-copy because we do not have a dedicated person creating new ad and banner copy.

However, we did drive a lot of traffic to the project and the traffic volume was good.

The marketing team performance is still only at 20% right now. And has not achieved competency in all the required areas yet. So we are trying to restaff and recruit from the community and fill in the capacity gaps.

Uniform OTC System:

The existing ICO is infrastructure test for a new backend. And still fixing bugs, so is better to set the price very and fix the bugs, then delay. Also test the marketing team.

The backend is working well now.
- we removed CLI exec and used web-rpc for security
- rate limiting and DDoS protection is working well
- we had problems loading 100,000 BTC addresses into electrum and getting it to sync for the watch wallet, so some improvements here
- we fixed a bug where send-to-many transactions were not handled correctly. Now works perfectly
- we have new security measures and offline wallets, improved encryption and wallet handling procedures. None of the online connected computers have any bitcoin private key on them and we are using offline genned addresses completly now.

Then we will add ETH deposits and test that.

Confusion on Website:

There are two major issues
- navigation is confusing and most users cannot even find the ICO page
- some buttons were confusing or were not translated into Chinese and caused mass confusion
- the event page, did not tell people that they had to send a multiple of 0.002 BTC (some people sent 0.0014 or non-multiples of 0.002)

The navigation is being improved now so that is less confusing.

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August 11, 2017, 03:53:50 AM
 #3187

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Pretend, that a load of bread is $1. Pretend that only 1 million dollars exists in the world.

The FED doubles the amount of money in circulation. The price of bread goes to $2.

---

What happens if the number of Skycoin in circulation doubles?

A> The market cap doubles. The price per coin remains constant

B> The price per coin halves.

A or B.

This is important to understand.

There are coins with 300 million valuation or nearly billion dollars and a few over a billion dollars, where the reported free float is 60x higher than the actual free float. People see the market cap at a billion dollars and they think the coin is "worth" billions of dollars, but if they tried to sell the coin they could not get more than 20 million dollars out before the price went to zero.

People coming into this bubble, just see the volume and market cap and say "Other people are pricing this at a billion dollars, so it must be worth a billion dollars". And just buying whatever they see and are familiar with.

There is a lot of room for manipulation and there are a lot of misconceptions about how these market caps are calculated and how the "markets" actually work.

What matters in the long term, is the fundamentals. Everything else can be faked.

The coins that are doing the best are the ones that are most aggressive with the market manipulations.

Its going to be like the dot com bubble looking back, with pets.com trading at $11. People are going to ask why networks with no revenue or reason for people to use them, are priced at billions of dollars, when they have hundred million dollar a year capital outflows from operating/mining costs, which can only be sustained by a speculative bubble.

---

The Skycoin market cap is actually ~25 million. It is not 600 million (yet).

If the number of coins in circulation is doubled, the price per coin will go down by half. The market cap does not go to 600 million.

---

If you ask me, there are only two or three projects with any real chance at all of replacing Ethereum or Bitcoin. The number of projects working on the core technical issues instead of marketing gimmicks is almost zero.

So on long term, if you said the market cap is 600 million, I would say it is under-priced and still cheap.

I think we are going to see a lot of coins in the 20 billion to 80 billion dollar market cap range eventually.

There are no economic fundamentals anchoring coin prices to anything in reality, unlike the dot com bubble, that only reached trillions of dollars.

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August 12, 2017, 02:52:28 PM
 #3188

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Its the same as Bitcoin.

There are existing/issued coins. (ex. 1 million coins exist)

There is a supply or issuance cap (ex. 23 million maximum coins)

There is a tapered and decreasing, relative rate of coin issuance according to a schedule.

---

>So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

We did multi-agent simulations and modeling of this. It is actually a fallacy/misconception.

Because releasing all the coins, would suppress the market price. If we dumped all 100 million coins RIGHT NOW. The market price would still be 23 million.

If the number of coins in circulation is increased 10x, then the price for each coin declines to 10%. That is because what matters is the per capita capital inflows and coins per user.

Increasing number of coins in circulation, does not increase the market cap. It decreases the price per coin.

So for instance, if we have a 20 million dollar valuation right now. AND we increase the user base size by 30x, the valuation will be 600 million (which is where Qtum is right now).

This is why everyone is making so much money investing in altcoins. The userbases are expanding at an exponential rate (new market), that is faster than the debasement from mining rewards.

If we double the number of coins in circulation, then the market cap is the same. The price per coin, just halves.

---

The mathematics is not intuitive and what you expect.

Every time the coins in circulation are doubled, the price per coin goes down 50%. That is why going from 6% to 10% is hard, while keeping the price per coin up (~50% dilution). And why going from 10% to 20% is hard (50% dilution).  But why 20% to 10% and everything after that is easy.

A user base can grow 10x or 100x or 10,000x, easily. It can grow exponentially and nearly infinitely. However, the number of coins that will ever be in circulation can only increase 10x from the point that 10% of Skycoin reach circulation.

The key thing also, is that even given constant user base size, the price increases as the distribution of new coins tapers and declines. This is because of capital flow affects (money into the coin vs money out).

---

So to summarize, the market cap is a constant.

Doubling the coins in circulation (doubling the free float), reduces the price per coin to half (halves the price per coin). The market cap however, stays constant.

I agree that if you where to release all the coins right now the marketcap will still be around 23million.

But that doesn't change the fact that the current amount of circulation and price is suggesting a 600million marketcap.

Restricting supply is one way of controlling price but that is just not a good practice in my opinion. It is what the greedy diamond industry does to get money from woman who wants shiny things.

I love the concept of the project but with 90% of coins being control by the devs, it doesn't give the community much confidence. I understand that devs need to be rewarded for their efforts but sometimes being less greedy can lead to better adoption and and involvement from the community, therefore better chance of growing this into what your team envision Skycoin to be.

Of course in the end it is up to you to price your coins and you will have a better idea of how much your project is worth.
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August 15, 2017, 02:10:51 PM
 #3189

I really don't get why so many complain about the price?
There are clear options how to buy with offered price.
There are options to buy cheaper using the exchange.
If you want to buy cheaper go and add bid to exchange or wait. So devs would be able to sell to you on your conditions.
If your concern is that by buying on exchange you buy not from devs but from early investors/supporters: now on the exchange, you can see 50k coins for sale, it's 1% from distributed 5mm coins. This is a very clear sign that early investors do continue to support the project. And if some of them want to go out with small gains I'm completely OK with this.

In most ICO you usually don't know what would be results of ICO, here you can predict everything very well. So yes, not a pump and dump project, but steadily growing till some point when it will go exponential (after it would be added to some normal exchange). Somehow it reminds me IOTA project, hidden for long time, without marketing and buzz around it, complex ways to acquire it. Just silent and continuous development.

Most coins now have zero use (except store/transfer of value). Most coins don't even have own code (ETH tokens especially) or code copied from another crypto. Most don't have active development (1-2 developers do some changes couple of times per month). I have seen projects where new "wallet version with security enchantments" is actually ONLY version number change. So why to compare market cap of different coins without taking into account other aspects? Here I see the clear difference between SKY and other projects.

But any way you need to trust devs and their plans (and in coin distribution too). And what I see now is actually this kind of proof from devs that early investors are not hurt by distribution.
Agreed.

We already announced price to media and press releases went out, so could not change price without causing massive confusion.

Also, we ended up being lucky, because it gave us opportunity to find and fix bugs in the ICO back-end infrastructure. We have some minor errors to fix and things that were not logged enough to trace source of error.

So if we has 25,000 orders all at once, it could have been support headache. We did not know insufficient information was logged at the start of the ICO.

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August 15, 2017, 02:27:34 PM
 #3190

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Its the same as Bitcoin.

There are existing/issued coins. (ex. 1 million coins exist)

There is a supply or issuance cap (ex. 23 million maximum coins)

There is a tapered and decreasing, relative rate of coin issuance according to a schedule.

---

>So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

We did multi-agent simulations and modeling of this. It is actually a fallacy/misconception.

Because releasing all the coins, would suppress the market price. If we dumped all 100 million coins RIGHT NOW. The market price would still be 23 million.

If the number of coins in circulation is increased 10x, then the price for each coin declines to 10%. That is because what matters is the per capita capital inflows and coins per user.

Increasing number of coins in circulation, does not increase the market cap. It decreases the price per coin.

So for instance, if we have a 20 million dollar valuation right now. AND we increase the user base size by 30x, the valuation will be 600 million (which is where Qtum is right now).

This is why everyone is making so much money investing in altcoins. The userbases are expanding at an exponential rate (new market), that is faster than the debasement from mining rewards.

If we double the number of coins in circulation, then the market cap is the same. The price per coin, just halves.

---

The mathematics is not intuitive and what you expect.

Every time the coins in circulation are doubled, the price per coin goes down 50%. That is why going from 6% to 10% is hard, while keeping the price per coin up (~50% dilution). And why going from 10% to 20% is hard (50% dilution).  But why 20% to 10% and everything after that is easy.

A user base can grow 10x or 100x or 10,000x, easily. It can grow exponentially and nearly infinitely. However, the number of coins that will ever be in circulation can only increase 10x from the point that 10% of Skycoin reach circulation.

The key thing also, is that even given constant user base size, the price increases as the distribution of new coins tapers and declines. This is because of capital flow affects (money into the coin vs money out).

---

So to summarize, the market cap is a constant.

Doubling the coins in circulation (doubling the free float), reduces the price per coin to half (halves the price per coin). The market cap however, stays constant.

I agree that if you where to release all the coins right now the marketcap will still be around 23million.

But that doesn't change the fact that the current amount of circulation and price is suggesting a 600million marketcap.

Restricting supply is one way of controlling price but that is just not a good practice in my opinion. It is what the greedy diamond industry does to get money from woman who wants shiny things.

I love the concept of the project but with 90% of coins being control by the devs, it doesn't give the community much confidence. I understand that devs need to be rewarded for their efforts but sometimes being less greedy can lead to better adoption and and involvement from the community, therefore better chance of growing this into what your team envision Skycoin to be.

Of course in the end it is up to you to price your coins and you will have a better idea of how much your project is worth.

We dont set the market cap. It is set by the market.

When we get to 30% distribution, then most of these issues will be resolved.

>Restricting supply is one way of controlling price but that is just not a good practice in my opinion.

Skycoin has a lot of buy and hold people. Less than 1% for the distributed coins are trading the on the exchanges. That means people are holding.

This means there is long term confidence and expectation of "an explosion of value".

However, it also means that liquidity is thin (you cannot buy many coins without the price exploding to insane levels) and volume is low (if everyone is hoarding the coin, few people are actively trading on it).

Remember what happened to ByteBalls and IOTA. Byteball was $0.10 and exploded to $700 in less than three months. Even during extremely heavy distribution and coin drops (which Skycoin is not doing).

Then once ByteBalls was at $700 people were screaming "FUCK" out their windows and "I should have bought that" etc...

The price explosion happened after the distribution rounds finished (which were preannounced and to the Bitcoin holders). Then after coin distribution/taper ended, then consolidation and price increase happened.

The reason ByteBalls appreciated so quickly, I think was the distribution taper. For Skycoin that occurs at 30% distribution after the coin time lock.

===

We could also try a ByteBalls style distribution, now that we have the sky-messanger bot. We could drop 1 to 5% of the total coins, proportionally to existing BTC/ETH holders proportional to number of coins that participated in the event.

You would have to register a bitcoin address (which must have never been used before a given block) from your wallet, then you must hold BTC in the address during the lock/drop period. Then we add up all the Bitcoin across the registered addresses and do drop.

I think, maybe we could do that around the 20% distribution mark, as a possible distribution event. And would help get to the 30% distribution and the time lock, where the distribution taper falls off.

Doing a 1% Byteballs event makes sense in first drop as a test to see the reaction.

It may make sense to do this at the 10% or 15% distribution point also.

That would be a good experiment.

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August 16, 2017, 02:11:58 PM
 #3191

bounty for german translation? pm me!

INVALID BBCODE: close of unopened tag in table (1)
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August 16, 2017, 05:07:29 PM
 #3192

Tech behind this coin looks awesome , there is no doubt about that. Only think is missing is needed marketing. I hope they won't ruin their by not marketing it enough when they are launching.

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August 16, 2017, 09:19:07 PM
 #3193

>With the .002 price they are requesting it places skycoin at over $600,000,000 in market cap and that is BS.

No. You are lying again.

Coinmarketcap.com says the market cap is 23 million. You say it is 600 million.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/skycoin/

Coinmarketcap is only taking into account ~5% of total actual amount of Skycoin available. Although only 5% is available to the public doesn't mean there aren't more coins out there held by the dev team, not saying thats a bad thing. So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

Just like only a % of shares are publicly trading on exchanges, total market value of the company takes into account all the shares out there, including those held by company employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Its the same as Bitcoin.

There are existing/issued coins. (ex. 1 million coins exist)

There is a supply or issuance cap (ex. 23 million maximum coins)

There is a tapered and decreasing, relative rate of coin issuance according to a schedule.

---

>So the actual market cap of all Skycoins out there is actually 600 million.

We did multi-agent simulations and modeling of this. It is actually a fallacy/misconception.

Because releasing all the coins, would suppress the market price. If we dumped all 100 million coins RIGHT NOW. The market price would still be 23 million.

If the number of coins in circulation is increased 10x, then the price for each coin declines to 10%. That is because what matters is the per capita capital inflows and coins per user.

Increasing number of coins in circulation, does not increase the market cap. It decreases the price per coin.

So for instance, if we have a 20 million dollar valuation right now. AND we increase the user base size by 30x, the valuation will be 600 million (which is where Qtum is right now).

This is why everyone is making so much money investing in altcoins. The userbases are expanding at an exponential rate (new market), that is faster than the debasement from mining rewards.

If we double the number of coins in circulation, then the market cap is the same. The price per coin, just halves.

---

The mathematics is not intuitive and what you expect.

Every time the coins in circulation are doubled, the price per coin goes down 50%. That is why going from 6% to 10% is hard, while keeping the price per coin up (~50% dilution). And why going from 10% to 20% is hard (50% dilution).  But why 20% to 10% and everything after that is easy.

A user base can grow 10x or 100x or 10,000x, easily. It can grow exponentially and nearly infinitely. However, the number of coins that will ever be in circulation can only increase 10x from the point that 10% of Skycoin reach circulation.

The key thing also, is that even given constant user base size, the price increases as the distribution of new coins tapers and declines. This is because of capital flow affects (money into the coin vs money out).

---

So to summarize, the market cap is a constant.

Doubling the coins in circulation (doubling the free float), reduces the price per coin to half (halves the price per coin). The market cap however, stays constant.

I agree that if you where to release all the coins right now the marketcap will still be around 23million.

But that doesn't change the fact that the current amount of circulation and price is suggesting a 600million marketcap.

Restricting supply is one way of controlling price but that is just not a good practice in my opinion. It is what the greedy diamond industry does to get money from woman who wants shiny things.

I love the concept of the project but with 90% of coins being control by the devs, it doesn't give the community much confidence. I understand that devs need to be rewarded for their efforts but sometimes being less greedy can lead to better adoption and and involvement from the community, therefore better chance of growing this into what your team envision Skycoin to be.

Of course in the end it is up to you to price your coins and you will have a better idea of how much your project is worth.

We dont set the market cap. It is set by the market.

When we get to 30% distribution, then most of these issues will be resolved.

>Restricting supply is one way of controlling price but that is just not a good practice in my opinion.

Skycoin has a lot of buy and hold people. Less than 1% for the distributed coins are trading the on the exchanges. That means people are holding.

This means there is long term confidence and expectation of "an explosion of value".

However, it also means that liquidity is thin (you cannot buy many coins without the price exploding to insane levels) and volume is low (if everyone is hoarding the coin, few people are actively trading on it).

Remember what happened to ByteBalls and IOTA. Byteball was $0.10 and exploded to $700 in less than three months. Even during extremely heavy distribution and coin drops (which Skycoin is not doing).

Then once ByteBalls was at $700 people were screaming "FUCK" out their windows and "I should have bought that" etc...

The price explosion happened after the distribution rounds finished (which were preannounced and to the Bitcoin holders). Then after coin distribution/taper ended, then consolidation and price increase happened.

The reason ByteBalls appreciated so quickly, I think was the distribution taper. For Skycoin that occurs at 30% distribution after the coin time lock.

===

We could also try a ByteBalls style distribution, now that we have the sky-messanger bot. We could drop 1 to 5% of the total coins, proportionally to existing BTC/ETH holders proportional to number of coins that participated in the event.

You would have to register a bitcoin address (which must have never been used before a given block) from your wallet, then you must hold BTC in the address during the lock/drop period. Then we add up all the Bitcoin across the registered addresses and do drop.

I think, maybe we could do that around the 20% distribution mark, as a possible distribution event. And would help get to the 30% distribution and the time lock, where the distribution taper falls off.

Doing a 1% Byteballs event makes sense in first drop as a test to see the reaction.

It may make sense to do this at the 10% or 15% distribution point also.

That would be a good experiment.

This drop seems to be interesting!

Also I read it on your blog that 300 skywire miners will be made and with a price of 1 BTC. Is this price final? (Regarding the value growth of btc lately)

And running a normal node on a computer, not a hardware node like this won't grant SKY earnings for the node runner, right?
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August 17, 2017, 01:15:43 AM
Last edit: August 17, 2017, 04:49:58 AM by LiskEnterprise
 #3194

Without a complete revised plan on distribution people are not going to buy into skycoin becasue the Dev who is unknown and cannot be trusted becasue they are unknown own 94% of all coins.

Trustless means the distribution is coded in the system, like BTC.

How will Skycoin compare with IOTA?

IOTA has instant transfer.

No POW.

No fees.

All coins successfully issued.

---------------

Skycoin plans

Instant transactions

No fees

Simulated POW.

Keeping majority of coins.

----------------------

If coin distribution is distributed to the network participants running hardware.

To development teams and contributors.

For marketing and events...


How can you make this trustless?

IOTA has come out now and is operational with everything skycoin planned.

I question why would anyone integrate sky over IOTA in their business plan or platform?

How will sky reorganize its plan to distribute coins and make the distribution trustless eg coded into the blockchain.

------------------------

Skycoin has released no tech, always just says 'look at the github'

Skycoin is currently running an ICO another one as they have done many...

Priced at 0.002 but the market price is telling them the price is 0.0008 nearly 1/3 of what they think it is worth.

Now they are thinking of an Airdrop to BTC and ETH holders.

The ICO and distribution system cannot always change on a whim or be held by the devs..

The tech needs to be released..

Who gets and controls the ICO funds?

----------------

I personally would like to see the coins succeed, but as it is there seems no standard reasonable plan.


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August 18, 2017, 04:57:41 AM
 #3195

Without a complete revised plan on distribution people are not going to buy into skycoin becasue the Dev who is unknown and cannot be trusted becasue they are unknown own 94% of all coins.

Trustless means the distribution is coded in the system, like BTC.

How will Skycoin compare with IOTA?

IOTA has instant transfer.

No POW.

No fees.

All coins successfully issued.

---------------

Skycoin plans

Instant transactions

No fees

Simulated POW.

Keeping majority of coins.

----------------------

If coin distribution is distributed to the network participants running hardware.

To development teams and contributors.

For marketing and events...


How can you make this trustless?

IOTA has come out now and is operational with everything skycoin planned.

I question why would anyone integrate sky over IOTA in their business plan or platform?

How will sky reorganize its plan to distribute coins and make the distribution trustless eg coded into the blockchain.

------------------------

Skycoin has released no tech, always just says 'look at the github'

Skycoin is currently running an ICO another one as they have done many...

Priced at 0.002 but the market price is telling them the price is 0.0008 nearly 1/3 of what they think it is worth.

Now they are thinking of an Airdrop to BTC and ETH holders.

The ICO and distribution system cannot always change on a whim or be held by the devs..

The tech needs to be released..

Who gets and controls the ICO funds?

----------------

I personally would like to see the coins succeed, but as it is there seems no standard reasonable plan.



"Unknown dev" please do your research and check the github. It is extremely unfair you say these things because it just isn't true. With one click you can see the development cycle.

https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin

 Cool

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August 18, 2017, 05:26:52 AM
 #3196

Without a complete revised plan on distribution people are not going to buy into skycoin becasue the Dev who is unknown and cannot be trusted becasue they are unknown own 94% of all coins.

Trustless means the distribution is coded in the system, like BTC.

How will Skycoin compare with IOTA?

IOTA has instant transfer.

No POW.

No fees.

All coins successfully issued.

---------------

Skycoin plans

Instant transactions

No fees

Simulated POW.

Keeping majority of coins.

----------------------

If coin distribution is distributed to the network participants running hardware.

To development teams and contributors.

For marketing and events...


How can you make this trustless?

IOTA has come out now and is operational with everything skycoin planned.

I question why would anyone integrate sky over IOTA in their business plan or platform?

How will sky reorganize its plan to distribute coins and make the distribution trustless eg coded into the blockchain.

------------------------

Skycoin has released no tech, always just says 'look at the github'

Skycoin is currently running an ICO another one as they have done many...

Priced at 0.002 but the market price is telling them the price is 0.0008 nearly 1/3 of what they think it is worth.

Now they are thinking of an Airdrop to BTC and ETH holders.

The ICO and distribution system cannot always change on a whim or be held by the devs..

The tech needs to be released..

Who gets and controls the ICO funds?

----------------

I personally would like to see the coins succeed, but as it is there seems no standard reasonable plan.



"Unknown dev" please do your research and check the github. It is extremely unfair you say these things because it just isn't true. With one click you can see the development cycle.

https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin

 Cool


Yes but anyone can make a github,

Development cycle yes... But github is not an identifier or who people are.

Whats to stop this project getting ICO funds closing down and opening up complete under the name SuperCoin?

Investors have no recourse or event complain or investigation channels..

Where is the developer list showing the team on the Skycoin webpage.

I think you know what i am saying.

Ok this project is different as it is from China and is about 6 years old and seems randomic.

When i ask who gets the ICO money that is not clear.

Who is running this - is not clear.

Why do they keep saying their marketing sucks and their ICOs fail like they are blaming someone else?

Who is they?

Again the main questions on making the finances and the ICO and the coin distribution trustless are just skipped.

They do not want an distribution like Nxt or IOTA ...

Ok that decision was made a long time ago...

So they plan to release by simulated POW to anyone servicing the network and coin hours.

They plan to distribute to projects devs and marketing.

Skycoin is ranked 123 @ $3.85 with total supply of 100,000,000

94,000,000 is seemly stored and this effect any potential buyer right now and all past holders.

This distribution needs to be set in stone and coded into the system.

Their inflation deflation debates do not make any sense.

 Their hording coins until prices rise then release some then release more when prices rise only increases ICO profits for the unknown devs. Now that is fine if all coin holders continue to benefit from the price rise and the technology that is in use.

I do not see any tech yet.

I see price dropping on the markets and that is the reality.

Skycoin has only ever made value in the coin becasue it is based in BTC and it floats when BTC water floats all boats.

Skycoin maximalists have a gun to their head if they cannot answer these simple questions.

If this cannot be discussed then why?

If it cannot be answered then why?

Everytime sky price drops i consider buying but i do the math and there is more value elsewhere in alts.

100,000,000 x $3.85 is a ridiculous price. Especially becasue there is unanswered questions.

After 6 years there is only a web wallet released

Only 6,000,000 coins released

94,000,000 coins held by unknown people.

So there is no possible accountability.

Also with all the ACCHAIN BS happening with staments and videos connecting SDR China to Neo and QTUM

and QTUMs past connection with Sky.Ledger and Sky.Coin..

Statements - that the only way these projects succeed is with the ok and backing of the China Government.

Confusion is higher than certainty.

Many investors do not look into a coin they buy and that speculation is fine.

But this is a project 6 years old, and with this many unanswered questions.

Again this is just my due diligence. Pushing to get answers.


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August 18, 2017, 05:31:37 AM
 #3197

Without a complete revised plan on distribution people are not going to buy into skycoin becasue the Dev who is unknown and cannot be trusted becasue they are unknown own 94% of all coins.

Trustless means the distribution is coded in the system, like BTC.

How will Skycoin compare with IOTA?

IOTA has instant transfer.

No POW.

No fees.

All coins successfully issued.

---------------

Skycoin plans

Instant transactions

No fees

Simulated POW.

Keeping majority of coins.

----------------------

If coin distribution is distributed to the network participants running hardware.

To development teams and contributors.

For marketing and events...


How can you make this trustless?

IOTA has come out now and is operational with everything skycoin planned.

I question why would anyone integrate sky over IOTA in their business plan or platform?

How will sky reorganize its plan to distribute coins and make the distribution trustless eg coded into the blockchain.

------------------------

Skycoin has released no tech, always just says 'look at the github'

Skycoin is currently running an ICO another one as they have done many...

Priced at 0.002 but the market price is telling them the price is 0.0008 nearly 1/3 of what they think it is worth.

Now they are thinking of an Airdrop to BTC and ETH holders.

The ICO and distribution system cannot always change on a whim or be held by the devs..

The tech needs to be released..

Who gets and controls the ICO funds?

----------------

I personally would like to see the coins succeed, but as it is there seems no standard reasonable plan.



"Unknown dev" please do your research and check the github. It is extremely unfair you say these things because it just isn't true. With one click you can see the development cycle.

https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin

 Cool


Yes but anyone can make a github,

Development cycle yes... But github is not an identifier or who people are.

Whats to stop this project getting ICO funds closing down and opening up complete under the name SuperCoin?

Investors have no recourse or event complain or investigation channels..

Where is the developer list showing the team on the Skycoin webpage.

I think you know what i am saying.

Ok this project is different as it is from China and is about 6 years old and seems randomic.

When i ask who gets the ICO money that is not clear.

Who is running this - is not clear.

Why do they keep saying their marketing sucks and their ICOs fail like they are blaming someone else?

Who is they?

Again the main questions on making the finances and the ICO and the coin distribution trustless are just skipped.

They do not want an distribution like Nxt or IOTA ...

Ok that decision was made a long time ago...

So they plan to release by simulated POW to anyone servicing the network and coin hours.

They plan to distribute to projects devs and marketing.

Skycoin is ranked 123 @ $3.85 with total supply of 100,000,000

94,000,000 is seemly stored and this effect any potential buyer right now and all past holders.

This distribution needs to be set in stone and coded into the system.

Their inflation deflation debates do not make any sense.

 Their hording coins until prices rise then release some then release more when prices rise only increases ICO profits for the unknown devs. Now that is fine if all coin holders continue to benefit from the price rise and the technology that is in use.

I do not see any tech yet.

I see price dropping on the markets and that is the reality.

Skycoin has only ever made value in the coin becasue it is based in BTC and it floats when BTC water floats all boats.

Skycoin maximalists have a gun to their head if they cannot answer these simple questions.

If this cannot be discussed then why?

If it cannot be answered then why?

Everytime sky price drops i consider buying but i do the math and there is more value elsewhere in alts.

100,000,000 x $3.85 is a ridiculous price. Especially becasue there is unanswered questions.

After 6 years there is only a web wallet released

Only 6,000,000 coins released

94,000,000 coins held by unknown people.

So there is no possible accountability.

Also with all the ACCHAIN BS happening with staments and videos connecting SDR China to Neo and QTUM

and QTUMs past connection with Sky.Ledger and Sky.Coin..

Statements - that the only way these projects succeed is with the ok and backing of the China Government.

Confusion is higher than certainty.

Many investors do not look into a coin they buy and that speculation is fine.

But this is a project 6 years old, and with this many unanswered questions.

Again this is just my due diligence. Pushing to get answers.



The due diligence methodology you are using is comparative. This is not a POS or POW coin.

If you think they will run with funds after 6 years of active development you are welcome to think that - to me it makes no sense.

I understand you want a distribution methodology suited to you. It is not going to happen - we are not deploying around you - we are deploying around the world.

I will ask you as a gentleman to show a bit of respect to the development shown so far.

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August 18, 2017, 05:41:05 AM
 #3198


The due diligence methodology you are using is comparative. This is not a POS or POW coin.

If you think they will run with funds after 6 years of active development you are welcome to think that - to me it makes no sense.

I understand you want a distribution methodology suited to you. It is not going to happen - we are not deploying around you - we are deploying around the world.

I will ask you as a gentleman to show a bit of respect to the development shown so far.

Yes it is NOT a POW or a POS.

It is a simulated POW, where we get coin hours if we hold Skycoin and we earn Skycoin if we run VPS and nodes etc.

I am not asking it to suit me I am asking for it to be explained.

I cannot deploy it around me as I am not involved with the team.

I am asking why is it not planned to be trustless and coded so that everyone is confident on the process?

It cannot deploy around the World with the tiny volume traded in a small exchange out of New Zealand.

You can view my questions as attacks of which they are not.

I would suggest that if a lot of questions were answered and steps taken to fortify security in the process the ICO and the markets would respond.

I do like what i have read about the tech.

The blockexplorer and the wallet.

Things that make no sense happen all the time. and I feel having the correct data that is clear mitigates this.

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August 18, 2017, 05:54:44 AM
 #3199


The due diligence methodology you are using is comparative. This is not a POS or POW coin.

If you think they will run with funds after 6 years of active development you are welcome to think that - to me it makes no sense.

I understand you want a distribution methodology suited to you. It is not going to happen - we are not deploying around you - we are deploying around the world.

I will ask you as a gentleman to show a bit of respect to the development shown so far.

Yes it is NOT a POW or a POS.

It is a simulated POW, where we get coin hours if we hold Skycoin and we earn Skycoin if we run VPS and nodes etc.

I am not asking it to suit me I am asking for it to be explained.

I cannot deploy it around me as I am not involved with the team.

I am asking why is it not planned to be trustless and coded so that everyone is confident on the process?

It cannot deploy around the World with the tiny volume traded in a small exchange out of New Zealand.

You can view my questions as attacks of which they are not.

I would suggest that if a lot of questions were answered and steps taken to fortify security in the process the ICO and the markets would respond.

I do like what i have read about the tech.

The blockexplorer and the wallet.

Things that make no sense happen all the time. and I feel having the correct data that is clear mitigates this.


The questions don't make any sense. Since there is no rationale in your foundation. Once again you are asking for a distribution period that is clearly been explained as undetermined it cannot be determined because there is no simple solution for distribution without POW and POS - it has to be worked out. I have already told you this weeks ago. If you are uncomfortable with it then that is ok - if you want to work out a core distribution model I would love to hear it - but you cannot since this is a new methodology of distribution.

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August 18, 2017, 06:02:01 AM
 #3200

Once again you are asking for a distribution period that is clearly been explained as undetermined. If you are uncomfortable with it then that is ok.

Yes agreed.

but not so much a distribution period that is undetermined.

But a distribution method, human decision or coded so it is systematic.

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