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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 381227 times)
cryptrol
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February 16, 2015, 10:08:15 AM
 #1681

Time is of the essence. I am interested in working with highly talented authors, but unfortunately philosophical differences and differences in understanding how to succeed usually preclude such close working relationships.
I am sure your arrogance also plays a role.
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February 16, 2015, 12:03:29 PM
 #1682

Time is of the essence. I am interested in working with highly talented authors, but unfortunately philosophical differences and differences in understanding how to succeed usually preclude such close working relationships.
I am sure your arrogance also plays a role.


I do not know iamback, or whether he is who he claims to be [or trying to impersonate?], but I can only add to the conversation that I remember AnonyMint from the very very early of Darkcoin when only a few believed that anonymous mixing can be achieved in a decentralized manner without wallets getting emptied. 
AnonyMint came into the discussion out of nowhere when masternodes already worked (beta), claimed to be an internationally renowned programmer, and was not willing to talk to boyscouts. He drew a lot of antagonism from users.
Yet within a few posts and discussions with Evan (Darkcoin founder), he was quick to find weaknesses and attack vectors that no-one else saw, and how to bypass them. He gave several solutions, pointed to what he thought was the best (which was actually implemented later), and went on his way. He later came only once for 1-2 posts and disappeared again.

If this is really AnonyMint, I suggest you judge his input, rather than the style of writing, or his claims of accomplishments.
There were a few high-calibre coders in Darkcoin, and AnonyMint didn't seam to be any less, to say the least...

My 2 cents.
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February 16, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
 #1683

Yes, I am sure that iamback == AnonyMint.

Also even if I think he is super smart and knows a lot, sometimes I feel like he dismisses a lot of stuff with good potential too quickly. This probably stems from having too little time and so much to do. Or maybe he is just that good.
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February 16, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
 #1684

... sometimes I feel like he dismisses a lot of stuff with good potential too quickly.

Yes, in Darkcoin's case I remember him also kind of dismissing it, but also contributing some great feedback.
Skycoin already has a top-notch dev. If there are good ideas, I'm sure he'll acknowledge them and they'll find their way in. As to community noise, OP has proven that he can disregard this and continue efforts in line of his beliefs.
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February 16, 2015, 03:51:05 PM
 #1685



1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.


Why do you think it is too late when the economy crushes?
Cause there will be winning cryptocurrency?
Or cause BTC will skyrocket?
Or crypto goes bust accordingly?
So it´s the endgame? :-)

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iamback
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February 16, 2015, 08:18:15 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2015, 08:53:14 PM by iamback
 #1686

Time is of the essence. I am interested in working with highly talented authors, but unfortunately philosophical differences and differences in understanding how to succeed usually preclude such close working relationships.
I am sure your arrogance also plays a role.

In my prior post, I was just saying that the likelihood of the skycoin author and I agreeing on the various priorities is rare. That is not boasting, rather it is lamenting the fact that very smart programmers are difficult to find, and finding two that can work closely together is even more rare. Especially when I've already identified that although he and I share the long range idealistic goals, I have some very different ideas about priorities of how to realistically arrive at the end goal. That doesn't mean he is wrong, rather it means I expressed my opinion. I recognize it is your prerogative, if you want to dismiss my opinion as being not worthy of your attention.

I felt obligated to post my opinion because of some who PM me occasionally to ask my opinion of altcoins. Also by implying I am potentially interested to work with him (but no promises) if priority set can be agreed upon, I am implying I think he is smarter than me in some areas where my skills are weaker (specifically he appears to be more erudite on the math of cryptography than I am), because I prefer to work with people who complement my strengths. Some of the technical terminology he uses is foreign to me, suggesting he has deeper knowledge than I do in cryptography and relevant research. What I bring to the table is experience, especially in achieving million user success. I am turning 50 years old in June 2015. So my age is also working against me at this juncture. I have a blog.

I have also complimented him in prior post, as well as pointing out a terse overview on some flaws I think exist in his priority set. Note I didn't expend more than a few minutes analyzing the situation, because indeed I am very overloaded on other matters at this time and because I didn't see much hope of anything fruitful coming from investing my time here. If I receive some signal otherwise, I might invest more time here by reordering my priorities on my existing todo list.

Here is a photo of myself (Shelby Moore) in 1993 - 1995 when I worked on Fractal Design Painter (world's first commercial million user natural media simulation painting app) which is now marketed as Corel Painter. You can find my name listed on the Painter 3.1 splash screen at the aforementioned link and also find my name as a contributor to the design of CSS2.1. Also you can verify my photo below is hosted at coolpage.com and verify for example at Download.com (only one of the download sites) that Cool Page attained 700,000 downloads from 1998 to 2003 (when the internet was 1/10 the population).


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February 16, 2015, 09:07:08 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2015, 09:25:49 PM by iamback
 #1687


1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.

Why do you think it is too late when the economy crushes?
Cause there will be winning cryptocurrency?
Or cause BTC will skyrocket?
Or crypto goes bust accordingly?
So it´s the endgame? :-)

Yes either crypto-currency is superseded by some fiat electronic currency[1] or there will be an insurmountable inertia for a crypto-currency (probably Bitcoin) with the rise in "off the grid" Private Assets (gold, Bitcoin, real estate, collectibles, etc) that will accompany the Sovereign Big Bang October 2015. I follow Martin Armstrong's computer model (which tracks 32,000 global political-economic variables and had $100+ million of investment in historical data) which hasn't been wrong since it was created in the early 1980s.

Note I currently believe the most likely outcome is a global fiat digital currency and Bitcoin will become one in the same[1][2][3].

There can only be one winner for a global electronic currency.

If you did some digging into my archives for my prior usernames, you'd see I correctly predicted all the major turning points price moves in Bitcoin and also gold. I even publicly nailed the big moves in silver in 2011 a year before.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.0

[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg10475702#msg10475702

[3] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160612.0

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February 16, 2015, 09:40:33 PM
 #1688


1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.

Why do you think it is too late when the economy crushes?
Cause there will be winning cryptocurrency?
Or cause BTC will skyrocket?
Or crypto goes bust accordingly?
So it´s the endgame? :-)

Yes either crypto-currency is superseded by some fiat electronic currency[1] or there will be an insurmountable inertia for a crypto-currency (probably Bitcoin) with the rise in "off the grid" Private Assets (gold, Bitcoin, real estate, collectibles, etc) that will accompany the Sovereign Big Bang October 2015. I follow Martin Armstrong's computer model (which tracks 32,000 global political-economic variables and had $100+ million of investment in historical data) which hasn't been wrong since it was created in the early 1980s.

Note I currently believe the most likely outcome is a global fiat digital currency and Bitcoin will become one in the same[1][2][3].

There can only be one winner for a global electronic currency.

If you did some digging into my archives for my prior usernames, you'd see I correctly predicted all the major turning points price moves in Bitcoin and also gold. I even publicly nailed the big moves in silver in 2011 a year before.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.0

[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg10475702#msg10475702

[3] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160612.0


Alrigth, thank you.
You have obviously an insane amount of knowledge about Bitcoin and economics.
And I haven´t read everything, but what I read sounds absolutely possible.

But lets take it a bit further. I think that this whole currency/ fight fiat thing is doomed to fail.
But what I find really interesting, are projects which don´t focus on the currency side but rather on the functional side.
So if I may ask, what do you think about Ethereum/Maidsafe/Skycoin and maybe NXT?
All this projects aim a purpose and not so much the currency aspect.


@DEV:  Maybe you should consider sending a signal. ;-)  Could be a huge opportunity.



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Get 10% discount for all packages or create your own affiliate link to get 20% for every sale.
iamback
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February 16, 2015, 09:57:53 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2015, 11:40:11 PM by iamback
 #1689

But lets take it a bit further. I think that this whole currency/ fight fiat thing is doomed to fail.


The linked post mentions my hope for a bifurcation of currency due to a rising active capital Knowledge Age and dying passive capital Industrial Age (c.f. the "Economic Devastation" and "Dark Enlightenment" threads) because the latter will be trying to parasite on the former (NSA et al) thus a break away currency can rise orthogonal to the inevitable global economic currency. I view Bitcoin as a Trojan Horse that (perhaps planted to?) siphons off inertia towards the former that would be truly anonymous and fast enough for micropayments. But Bitcoin is also a reserve currency for altcoins and provides liquidity (easier to do a decentralized exchange to/from BTC than fiat), so it can also be leveraged by an upstart former.

I would approach the marketing of an altcoin with such a goal in mind.

But what I find really interesting, are projects which don´t focus on the currency side but rather on the functional side.
So if I may ask, what do you think about Ethereum/Maidsafe/Skycoin and maybe NXT?
All this projects aim a purpose and not so much the currency aspect.

Yes the Knowledge Age needs certain functionality. Priorities need to be set based on which are the largest and most realistic markets.

I analyzed MaidSafe and formulated a negative opinion.[1]

I have strong reasons to prefer competing merge mined chains instead of Ethereum's "everyone computes everything" morass.

NXT is proof-of-share which I believe is DOA (in terms of scaling to take over the world, no way to distribute more coins).

[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877398.msg9690423#msg9690423
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864659.msg9594071#msg9594071
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=883512.msg9759657#msg9759657

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February 16, 2015, 10:27:58 PM
 #1690

The fact that it is a meshnet/darknet and messaging system, comes for free. Its just a very stripped down version of Multiprotocol Label Switching in a cryptographic namespace. It also replaces BGP and the whole thing is 2000 lines.

The government has been trying to push BGPSEC to replace BGP. The internet is currently a network of independent networks peered over BGP. BGPSEC replaces the peer-to-peer internet with a hierarchical central certificate authority. It allows the government to use court orders to shut off internet traffic for non-compliant hosts.

Here is my post from Oct 2010 on the BGPSEC threat:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/t112p90-computers#3789


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February 16, 2015, 11:12:09 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2015, 11:23:57 PM by iamback
 #1691

... sometimes I feel like he dismisses a lot of stuff with good potential too quickly.

Yes, in Darkcoin's case I remember him also kind of dismissing it, but also contributing some great feedback.
Skycoin already has a top-notch dev. If there are good ideas, I'm sure he'll acknowledge them and they'll find their way in. As to community noise, OP has proven that he can disregard this and continue efforts in line of his beliefs.

I still think Darkcoin can't scale, but I also thought it was worthwhile experiment to thresh out the limitations of CoinJoin (which I btw was the first to point out in Gmaxell's CoinJoin thread) and I like Evan so I tried to help out.

I am not dismissing without having a reason for doing so. Have I been proven wrong (on altcoins, gmaxell has caught me in technical errors) even once yet? (I don't think so).

Agreed the dev of skycoin ostensibly has skills I don't have and has similar concerns as I do about the future. That is why I am bothering to post here. For example, Gmaxell has those research level cryptography skills I don't have, but he doesn't have the same concerns that I do (and I also find him abrasively closed-minded). Note I am autodidactic so I can attain the skills I need, but as I wrote, "time is of the essence". Maximum division-of-labor applies in spades here.

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February 17, 2015, 06:31:09 AM
Last edit: July 05, 2017, 05:40:09 AM by skycoin
 #1692

Someone PM'ed me links to the OP and the following two posts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10445540#msg10445540
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10475089#msg10475089

I formerly posted under the usernames AnonyMint, TheFascistMind, and UnunoctiumTestacles (and a couple others I don't recall). I have particularly relevant post in the On the Longest Chain Rule thread.

The skycoin author appears to be possess considerable technical knowledge. And he writes clearly with high information density.

Many of his goals mirror mine. I am also an accomplished programmer.

However, it only took me a few seconds to see several issues that I believe ruin any chance of his success. I speak from experience in coding and marketing million user commercial software projects. I hope he takes this as constructive criticism and not as an attempt to hurt his project. I currently have no investments nor vested interest in any competing crypto-currency.

1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.

Also I have some mathematical intuition that avoiding the 51% attack will always tradeoff security in another facet.

2. Afaics, he has absolutely no marketing acumen. He wants to go directly to replacing the internet infrastructure without a viable marketing scheme for ramping up.

3. He doesn't have the most essential quality of success in software, which is to ship something in high demand first. Instead he wants to tinker with every feature under the moon.

4. If I was improving Tor, I'd make it high latency and make is more secure, not less secure for higher bandwidth.

Time is of the essence. I am interested in working with highly talented authors, but unfortunately philosophical differences and differences in understanding how to succeed usually preclude such close working relationships.

There are two aspects of marketing
1. Getting people to use it
2. Public relations, media relations
3. Community relations

For #1. If people are not using it because it is useful and because It meets a need they have, then its useless and no amount of marketing will ensure adaption.

I was one of the first bittorrent users. I was downloading television episodes with bitornado when the client looked like this.



Bitorrent did not succeed because it was the best marketed program. The usability was horrible. It succeeded because it met a need that people had and because it worked. Does Bitcoin or Dogecoin or Ripple or Ethereum meet a need people have? In some sense, Dogecoin is more legitimate than Bitcoin and has been more successful at achieving adaption and building a community and user base.

"Failure" is also relative. The infrastructure for Skycoin is useful to me personally and I would still use it, even as the only user. Skycoin could have 10x the number of users of Bitcoin and still be considered a failure, by most criteria. There is not even a single cryptocoin to date that has more users than Farmville. In that sense, every single coin that exists is a failure.

- What is Bitcoin's user acquisition strategy and what does Bitcoin do to drive new users?
- Why would someone use Bitcoin over using a credit card?
- Why would someone use Bitcoin over fiat, when a stable currency like USD is available?
- Is there a reason to own Bitcoin or has Bitcoin and the alts become a real money forex trading game. Did Satoshi invent a legitimate challenger to fiat currency or did he invent a fantasy football altcoin trading game? The way I see people using Bitcoin, the new users and how they trade back and forth between Dogecoin, Litecoin and Bitcoin and thrive on volatility suggests a gambling, fantasy football like behavior rather the use of Bitcoin/alts as a tool for facilitating real economic exchange or production.

Different measures of success exist
- Is the coin and software useful for the people who use it, does it a satisfy a need they have. Is this something they will use or something they will download and open once and forget about.
- How many users does the coin have, how widely is it used
- What is the price or marketcap for the coin


1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.

Also I have some mathematical intuition that avoiding the 51% attack will always tradeoff security in another facet.


Yes. In Skycoin the 51% attack does not matter. The network could be 51% attacked twenty times a day and almost no one would care.

Skycoin has different mathematical properties than Bitcoin and is stricter. If you are trading coins back and forth between five people in a closed network, the 51% attack does not affect them. You need a private key of someone in the transaction chain to do any damage in a Skycoin 51% attack. There is no transaction malleability in Skycoin. Almost ever will have exactly the same outputs and same balances and same transaction histories on both the original chain and the fork, except the attacker and people they were trading coins with. If there is a fork in the chain, it just copies the transactions over from the other chains.

The 51% attack is only going to affect people day trading with shady people and gambling sites.  It will not affect commerce transactions very much. If an exchange follows best security practices and keeps the user wallets segregated, there worse attack is pretty mild.

Bitcoin is doing 100 million dollars a day transaction volume. Total transaction volume in Bitcoin is about 200,000 Bitcoins. Bitcoin has transaction malleability, this means that if someone 51% attack and rolls back transactions in the last hour, then about 4 million dollars and 10,000 Bitcoin in transactions balances will be screwed up. A rollback attack going back 24 hours could be 100 million in damages and up to 200,000 Bitcoins. An attacker can roll back any transaction in Bitcoin.

In Skycoin, they cannot affect or modify a transaction chain without knowing a private key for an address used in that chain of transactions. So if five banks are just trading back and forth between each other for settlement and they all have good wallet security, the 51% attack would not even be noticed. Their balances are the same. That is assuming, the 51% attack is even mathematically possible, that someone bothers expending the resources to attempt it and that it succeeds.

If someone manages to 51% attack Skycoin (which may be possible, but is mathematically unlikely) merchants will sing and dance with great rejoicement because losses will be so much less than for a Visa charge back. Many merchants sell laptops and make less than 5% margin on each laptop. Someone claims they didnt get the laptop and the merchant loses $1000, does not get the laptop back AND has to pay Visa an $80 fee. The company has to sell 25 laptops to make back the cost of the loss of a single fraud. If someone steals a credit card and buys a laptop with it, Visa does not take the loss, Visa tries to push the loss on the merchant.

The Skycoin consensus algorithm and the ledger are separate. The consensus system is modular and can be swapped out. If there is a better algorithm five years from now, we can just swap out the consensus for the new one. The ledger and coin balances will be completely unchanged.

Skycoin
- fixes existing problems with Bitcoin
- future proofs Bitcoin
- eliminates the death spiral conditions that Bitcoin has engineered in


1. A non-PoW consensus is DOA, because there isn't enough time to thresh out the issues and trust it before the global economy begins to collapse in 2016. For example, the selfish mining attack wasn't discovered (or let's say widely proven and recognized) until years after Satoshi published PoW. Thus, the serious marketplace isn't going to trust a novel non-PoW consensus. Instead I have designed a PoW system which resolves many of the issues that plague Bitcoin, including ASIC economics. Some hints are in my linked post above.

Also I have some mathematical intuition that avoiding the 51% attack will always tradeoff security in another facet.


It is 100% true. There are severe tradeoffs. There are tradeoffs, faster consensus times for Skycoin type relational consensus means that a smaller number of nodes are required to DDoS the network. However, people can react and remove the nodes from their trust lists.

There will be issues and they will need to be worked out.

Look at Skycoin Coinjoin
- https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/transactions.go

A transaction is just
1> A list of output hashes, being spent
2> A list of signatures authorizing the outputs to be spent (signature of hash of inner part of transaction)
3> A list of outputs to be created

Coins cannot be created or destroyed. The number of coins in has to equal number of coins out. Transaction fees are in "coinhours".

There is no difference between normal and coinjoin transactions.
- Two people choose the outputs they want to spend, the outputs they want to create, send to remote server.
- The server creates a transaction and scrambles orders of outputs in/out. Then sends it to each person
- Each person sends the signatures for their outputs to the server
- The coinjoin server injects the transaction into the network

- The coinjoin server cannot steal the coins
- only the coinjoin server knows how many people are involved (1, 2, 4?)
- only the coinjoin server knows which outptus belong to who
- there is no difference between coinjoin and normal transactions (they look exactly the same)

The signature in the ith slot is for the address owning the ith output. The inner hash of the transaction is hashed with hash of output being spent, then this is signed with the private key owning the output.

So it is very simple compared to other coinjoin systems.

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February 17, 2015, 07:38:31 AM
 #1693

If there is a fork in the chain, it just copies the transactions over from the other chains.

PoW can do this too and (probably) with similar limitations.

Bitcoin is doing 100 million dollars a day transaction volume. Total transaction volume in Bitcoin is about 200,000 Bitcoins. Bitcoin has transaction malleability, this means that if someone 51% attack and rolls back transactions in the last hour, then about 4 million dollars and 10,000 Bitcoin in transactions balances will be screwed up. A rollback attack going back 24 hours could be 100 million in damages and up to 200,000 Bitcoins. An attacker can roll back any transaction in Bitcoin.

I had linked to the math of my solution to short-term (rented hardware) 51% attacks for PoW. Long-term 51% attacks are not a threat, because the community will organize against them politically.

The Skycoin consensus algorithm and the ledger are separate. The consensus system is modular and can be swapped out. If there is a better algorithm five years from now, we can just swap out the consensus for the new one. The ledger and coin balances will be completely unchanged.

Ditto for PoW altcoins, so why not start with PoW first since it is more proven?

If you are counting on the consensus algorithm driving adoption of your coin beyond a limited set of hardcore zealots, I think you have not done your marketing research.

Also I have some mathematical intuition that avoiding the 51% attack will always tradeoff security in another facet.

It is 100% true. There are severe tradeoffs. There are tradeoffs, faster consensus times for Skycoin type relational consensus means that a smaller number of nodes are required to DDoS the network. However, people can react and remove the nodes from their trust lists.

There will be issues and they will need to be worked out.

Exactly.

Skycoin
- fixes existing problems with Bitcoin
- future proofs Bitcoin
- eliminates the death spiral conditions that Bitcoin has engineered in

Yawn. This is an example of how to NOT do marketing communication.

For #1. If people are not using it because it is useful and because It meets a need they have, then its useless and no amount of marketing will ensure adaption.

...

Bitorrent did not succeed because it was the best marketed program.

Correct except you seem to not understand that marketing research is part of the process of making sure your product fulfills critical need in the market. Marketing is not about hyperbole salesmenship. Marketing is about research, planning, and strategy.

- Why would someone use Bitcoin over using a credit card?
- Why would someone use Bitcoin over fiat, when a stable currency like USD is available?

Cool That is marketing.

The way I see people using Bitcoin, the new users and how they trade back and forth between Dogecoin, Litecoin and Bitcoin and thrive on volatility suggests a gambling, fantasy football like behavior rather the use of Bitcoin/alts as a tool for facilitating real economic exchange or production.

One man's game is another man's profession. Any activity that people spend money on is bonafide, but we also have to ask is it sustainable (e.g. productive).

Look at Skycoin Coinjoin

CoinJoin doesn't scale and/or it leaks anonymity (e.g. to the masternodes). It is not an autonomous block chain mixing thus it is inferior to one ring signatures. One time ring signatures can be implemented to be prune-able.

Bitcoin and Dogecoin are the only assets that the government cannot seize.

I disagree. The governments can regulate  (51% of the network hashrate) the non-anonymous miners, then they can control which traceable coins can not transact.

When you are ready to get serious, send me your BitMessage public key.

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February 17, 2015, 08:51:58 AM
Last edit: February 17, 2015, 09:23:51 AM by skycoin
 #1694

This is a good article by ChompyZ about what a professional virus/trojan for stealing Bitcoin would look like
- http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/how-omnipotent-hackers-tied-to-the-nsa-hid-for-14-years-and-were-found-at-last/

This is an article about the "computer health certificate" you will need to connect to the new Obamanet (no offense to Obama)
- http://www.networkworld.com/article/2227388/microsoft-subnet/microsoft-proposes-each-pc-needs-a-health-certificate-or-no-net-access-allowed.html
- Microsoft Proposes Each PC Needs A Health Certificate or No Net Access Allowed
- "Whose software gets access to your data to scan your computer for good health?"
- Microsoft plans to advocate for legislation and policies to help advance the model in a way that "advances principles supporting user control and privacy."

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February 17, 2015, 11:21:15 AM
 #1695

plz join forces
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February 17, 2015, 11:21:41 AM
 #1696

skycoin, you need to begin some where. Rome wasn't conquered in one day. There is one thing that needs to be created that is much more realistic and more needed than any other.

Decentralized crypto-currency is mostly a lie at this time (you want to dig into all the detailed pitfalls?). Coming to that realization was sort of depressing but necessary in order to get my priorities sorted. And getting from here to where we need to be isn't going to be accomplished in one chess move.

Password scrambled, ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. Formerly AnonyMint, TheFascistMind, contagion, UnunoctaniumTesticles.
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February 17, 2015, 11:52:24 AM
 #1697

plz join forces

I agree. the crypto doom porn is irresistable.
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February 17, 2015, 12:13:26 PM
 #1698

plz join forces

I agree. the crypto doom porn is irresistable.


incorporating too many conflicting opinions into a single project is not a good idea.
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February 17, 2015, 12:41:44 PM
Last edit: July 05, 2017, 05:22:27 AM by skycoin
 #1699

The fact that it is a meshnet/darknet and messaging system, comes for free. Its just a very stripped down version of Multiprotocol Label Switching in a cryptographic namespace. It also replaces BGP and the whole thing is 2000 lines.

The government has been trying to push BGPSEC to replace BGP. The internet is currently a network of independent networks peered over BGP. BGPSEC replaces the peer-to-peer internet with a hierarchical central certificate authority. It allows the government to use court orders to shut off internet traffic for non-compliant hosts.

Here is my post from Oct 2010 on the BGPSEC threat:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/t112p90-computers#3789


You are a visionary. I am reading your posts from years ago. You have predicted everything that happened and outlined the future ten years out. I should be working, but spent last ten hours going through you post history and links.

You right about the mining cartels. Once the top 80% of miners get together, they will start to ignore the blocks of smaller miners and it is profitable for them to try to orphan the blocks for pools outside of the cartel. People will be upset at first, but over time they will get used to it.

This is the time between orphaning injection and the willing block injection averages about 300 seconds.



P2Pool type technologies threaten to redecentralize Bitcoin mining and cut into ability of pools to siphon off hash rate and extract a 4% fee. Unless the Bitcoin protocol is changed to a P2Pool style protocol, mining will be monopolized. There should be public pools (to monitor the pools for orphaning blocks intentionally) and the shares generated by pool should be public.

However, this will never occur for the reasons you stated.

---

capital can't buy knowledge because thought isn't fungible - AnonyMint

Put Coinbase and Bitpay together and you have both the consumer and the merchant, you don't need the block chain any more. Also the mining is already centralized. How much more obvious could it be? - AnonyMint

You are expecting the less likely threat, because the power elite don't shutdown what is popular, they find a way to own it. - AnonyMint

We should not keep flaws that we know about, which clearly open the door and beg for monopolization.  - AnonyMint

I am thinking about what advantage does Coinbase + Bitpay have over Paypal?  The key is that the consumer pays the fees instead of the merchant. - AnonyMint

Bitpay (a BTC facade on fiat payment) is growing faster than Bitcoin adoption - AnonyMint

---

Quote
On one hand you have merchants using Bitpay.  These merchants don't want to hold BTC.  They convert it to fiat before it touches their account.  They are BTC sellers. On the other side you have hoarders who don't wanna to spend BTC because they are buying it for speculation. As more merchants accept BTC thru Bitpay; this creates an asymmetry of sellers over buyers.   This puts a lot of selling pressure on BTC driving the price down.

Yes. Bitpay is draining money out of Bitcoin. Merchants are not holding the Bitcoin and its causing capital outflows and driving down Bitcoin price. Every dollar spent through Bitpay, is a dollar in Bitcoin sold, driving down the price.

Bitcoin price is being driven down by
- early investors cashing out
- people buying goods with Bitpay
- miners selling 1 million dollars of newly created coins per day, to pay electricity/hardware costs
- scammers and thieves who have stolen Bitcoin, cashing out (MtGox coins)

Bitcoin price is being drive up by
- speculators buying into the coin

Its very important that Skycoin avoids as many of the capital outflows as it can. It is also very important that Skycoin creates new sources of capital inflows that are not pure speculation and hot money.

Quote
The bigger threat is the government will not shut it down, but rather embrace, help it grow, and control it so they can turn off your ability to eat individually if they don't like you - AnonyMint

Yes. If merchant is using Bitpay or a merchant has to satisfy KYC requirements under regulations, it forces all the payments through Bitpay.  The system becomes as centralized as the system it was designed to replaced. They can still blacklist your social security number and shut off your ability to spend your Bitcoin or withdraw money. Bitcoin does not affect the ability of government to implement Operation Chokepoint in the US. It does not stop government or private companies from linking and tracking every transaction a person makes.

Under Operation Chokepoint, they put your social security number on a list and all your bank cards, credit cards stop working. You are completely cut off from the financial system. Your employer will be required to deposit money into your account electronically, but you wont be able to access it. You will not be able to get access to your cash or even buy food without a 3rd party helping you.

Bitcoin has already recentralized to the point that it no longer no circumvents these capacities.

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February 17, 2015, 02:39:26 PM
 #1700

this thread is getting more and more interesting
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