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[Betcoin.AG]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

[dooglus]

I had been hearing a lot about how withdrawals can take days or even weeks to complete, so I tried making one:



It took me 44 minutes to get around to confirming the withdrawal request, and then a further 38 minutes for the coins to reach my wallet. That's not too bad, all things considered. I've certainly seen faster (instant) withdrawals, but any withdrawal in less than an hour is tolerable.

Now if only they would reply to support tickets!

Edit: 90 seconds after posting this message they replied to my support ticket. It's a kind of magic!

[Betcoin.AG]

I had been hearing a lot about how withdrawals can take days or even weeks to complete, so I tried making one:



It took me 44 minutes to get around to confirming the withdrawal request, and then a further 38 minutes for the coins to reach my wallet. That's not too bad, all things considered. I've certainly seen faster (instant) withdrawals, but any withdrawal in less than an hour is tolerable.

Now if only they would reply to support tickets!

Dooglus, thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  When there is poker player, we have to review the withdrawal to prevent against collusion, abuse, multi-accounting etc.  We would rather have instant withdrawals but some dishonest players make that impossible for all of our great players. 

We are working on getting that 38 minute time down to under 15 minutes and that will happen with time and as we increase our staff.  If a withdrawal takes longer than a day, then typically the player is leaving out the fact that they were caught multi-accounting, colluding or some other form of abuse.  There are a few from time to time that may slip through the review process, but a quick email or visit to live chat can quickly fix that.

As for your ticket!  We certainly appreciate it and will respond shortly.  It's a wonderful ticket to receive because of the feedback but it isn't certainly one that can be answered in an hour!

We are here anytime for you and all of our great players.   

[dooglus]

Dooglus, thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  When there is poker player, we have to review the withdrawal to prevent against collusion, abuse, multi-accounting etc.  We would rather have instant withdrawals but some dishonest players make that impossible for all of our great players. 

I understand the need to be vigilant against collusion, but that should be an ongoing process; if you're only checking for collusion when a player decides to withdraw, you are doing a disservice to your other players.

Whether or not a player ever attempts to withdraw, you should be checking that his profits don't come from cheating. Because even if he ends up losing his ill-gotten gains back, he's unlikely to lose them to the same people he won them from.

Given this, I don't understand the need for a delay at withdrawal time. It's over 24 hours since I played poker. That's plenty of time for my account to have been reviewed for cheating, and marked as approved for an instant automated withdrawal. That way you don't need to increase your staff, since the system will process withdrawals automatically.

As for your ticket!  We certainly appreciate it and will respond shortly.  It's a wonderful ticket to receive because of the feedback but it isn't certainly one that can be answered in an hour!

OK. I wasn't sure you had even noticed that I was still posting on that ticket. None of my last several replies have been acknowledged. I guess I was expecting a more rapid turnaround time, like I'm seeing here on the forum. Take your time.

[Betcoin.AG]

Dooglus, thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  When there is poker player, we have to review the withdrawal to prevent against collusion, abuse, multi-accounting etc.  We would rather have instant withdrawals but some dishonest players make that impossible for all of our great players. 

I understand the need to be vigilant against collusion, but that should be an ongoing process; if you're only checking for collusion when a player decides to withdraw, you are doing a disservice to your other players.

Whether or not a player ever attempts to withdraw, you should be checking that his profits don't come from cheating. Because even if he ends up losing his ill-gotten gains back, he's unlikely to lose them to the same people he won them from.

Given this, I don't understand the need for a delay at withdrawal time. It's over 24 hours since I played poker. That's plenty of time for my account to have been reviewed for cheating, and marked as approved for an instant automated withdrawal. That way you don't need to increase your staff, since the system will process withdrawals automatically.

As for your ticket!  We certainly appreciate it and will respond shortly.  It's a wonderful ticket to receive because of the feedback but it isn't certainly one that can be answered in an hour!

OK. I wasn't sure you had even noticed that I was still posting on that ticket. None of my last several replies have been acknowledged. I guess I was expecting a more rapid turnaround time, like I'm seeing here on the forum. Take your time.

Checking for collusion, cheating, abuse etc is an ongoing process that occurs 24/7 each day including at the time of withdrawal.  We are constantly reviewing the play of all of our great players.  We are actually working on a system that notes an account as playing poker or not and clears it after a review which will allow for instant withdrawals.  We actually did have instant withdrawals in the beginning as well and we would much rather have instant withdrawals. 

We have many new improvements to Betcoin in the works and we appreciate everyone's great feedback.  We will continue to get better and better everyday.

As for the ticket, thank you!  We are reviewing and responding.

[TwitchySeal]

Dooglus, thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.  When there is poker player, we have to review the withdrawal to prevent against collusion, abuse, multi-accounting etc.  We would rather have instant withdrawals but some dishonest players make that impossible for all of our great players. 

I understand the need to be vigilant against collusion, but that should be an ongoing process; if you're only checking for collusion when a player decides to withdraw, you are doing a disservice to your other players.

Whether or not a player ever attempts to withdraw, you should be checking that his profits don't come from cheating. Because even if he ends up losing his ill-gotten gains back, he's unlikely to lose them to the same people he won them from.

Given this, I don't understand the need for a delay at withdrawal time. It's over 24 hours since I played poker. That's plenty of time for my account to have been reviewed for cheating, and marked as approved for an instant automated withdrawal. That way you don't need to increase your staff, since the system will process withdrawals automatically.

As for your ticket!  We certainly appreciate it and will respond shortly.  It's a wonderful ticket to receive because of the feedback but it isn't certainly one that can be answered in an hour!

OK. I wasn't sure you had even noticed that I was still posting on that ticket. None of my last several replies have been acknowledged. I guess I was expecting a more rapid turnaround time, like I'm seeing here on the forum. Take your time.

From what I can tell, Betcoin chooses to remain as passive as possible when it comes to poker cheating.

When they do seize funds, I think its very unlikely that returning the money to the players who were unaware of the situation would even be considered. 

I have much more to say on this as well as evidence to back up my my claim - just need to put everything together.  Will be shared by Sunday early afternoon.


It's great to see you at betcoin dooglus, I hope betcoin realizes the value of your criticism. 

[DarkDays]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

[Kuriko]

Betcoin seems dead seriously, its been way too long now.

[TwitchySeal]

Ive been banned from the betcoin community.  I will be sharing my opinion soon along with many more examples of betcoin support behaving questionably ,  but here is most recent copy of public and private chat with BetcoinAndrew:


Public Chat: READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP


Private Chat (initially asking why I was temp banned from last night)

Betcoin Maria joined the chat

Betcoin Maria
Hello.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
hi


Betcoin Maria
Can you please tell me your username?
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
twitchyseal/OHYEAH


Betcoin Maria
Please give me a minute to check this for you.
Betcoin Andrew joined the chat

Betcoin Andrew
Apologies Twitchy, we were just dealing with a lot and had too many people complaining that you were spamming chat.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
i wasn't spamming chat


Betcoin Andrew
Was just another thing to deal with that we didn't have time for.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
nobody complained about me spamming

Betcoin Maria left the chat

Betcoin Andrew
People actually always complain about you.

To be fair they complain about others as well.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
Andrew, lets just be honest here

It was for the same reason you delete so many posts wasn't it

Because I was being critical of Betcoins unethical practices

AT THIS POINT I GOT RE BANNED
ok andrew

why am i banned


Betcoin Andrew
I don't have time to waste.

I am fielding some very important questoins from our players
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
why are you banning me then

maybe if you are able to admit to your self the answer, it will help things for everyone

hello?

hello?


Betcoin Andrew
Because we have too many players to help.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
then you should hire more straff


Betcoin Andrew
Honestly this is a waste of my time.  With everything else we deal with, it's just easier and smoother for business.  A business decision.

We are.

On that note, I must go for now.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
noted

so i am no longer welcome at betcoin


Betcoin Andrew
There are some great sites for you to play on out there, we have a lot of respect for some great sites out there.

I just need to get through these issues with some players then I will let you back into spam our chat and waste time.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
I am fully aware of other sites and how they operate - its part of my motivation for holding betcoin accountable for their decisions


Betcoin Andrew
You actually can play poker, sports and casino from the client, you just are not in the community.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
fair enough


Betcoin Andrew
But there are many great communities at nitrogen and sealsclubhouse for example.

Do you think we want to do this?
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
good thing im still in the poker community and the bitcoin communisty


Betcoin Andrew
Do you think we want our host offline?
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
i think you want me to just stfu like everyone else when you do something unethical


Betcoin Andrew
Do you think we want any of these issues that are beyond our control, it can be so frustrating and then to deal with you.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
no , obv nobody thinks you want to have issues out of your control


Betcoin Andrew
This is exactly why you are banned, to think that we would even ever do something unethical, then you shouldn't play here, be here or ever come here agin.

I would never go anywhere I thought was unethical.

And you shouldn't either.
TwitchySeal/OHYEAH
its not black and white andrew


Betcoin Andrew
I would not waste my time there for one second.

Being ethical is Trill.

Anyway, no time for this, which is my point.

[ftwbtc1]

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play. 

[Betcoin.AG]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

We certainly appreciate the support and inquiry and we are continuing to work on this matter in detail.  We will keep you posted and we invite you to enjoy Betcoin ring games and tournaments anytime.

Betcoin seems dead seriously, its been way too long now.

If you mean dead for the moment with WPN tournaments, then I see your point for the moment, however ring / cash games, Betcoin only tournaments and casino play has never been higher.  Also, sports is very stable and slightly considering even considering the IP filtering.  Thank you Kuriko for your message. 

[Kuriko]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

We certainly appreciate the support and inquiry and we are continuing to work on this matter in detail.  We will keep you posted and we invite you to enjoy Betcoin ring games and tournaments anytime.

Betcoin seems dead seriously, its been way too long now.

If you mean dead for the moment with WPN tournaments, then I see your point for the moment, however ring / cash games, Betcoin only tournaments and casino play has never been higher.  Also, sports is very stable and slightly considering even considering the IP filtering.  Thank you Kuriko for your message. 

Even sit n go seems dead, I hardly see any game and barely 200 players online when it used to be over 4-5k but I guess that is due to the wpn effect.

[Kuriko]

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play. 

Any other good  bitcoin poker apps with regular sit n gos?

[TwitchySeal]

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play. 

Would that make it ok for Betcoin to behave this way?

(Currently I am playing over 50 hours a week across 4 different sites, Betcoin has not been one of them.  The last time I included Betcoin in my regular schedule was October 11th, working on explaining why now  )

[hopenotlate]

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play.  

Would that make it ok for Betcoin to behave this way?

For what I can read here you told Betcoin:
- they are passive against collusion/cheating
- they do unetichal practise
- they mute people being critical to them.

Even if standard behaviour of people working in customer service is sligthly different this time the answer they gave you is understandable in my opinion, also considering the critical moment they are facing (WPN issues I mean).

But I only know what I read here: don't know what issues you had with Betcoin (except for the rake related to satellite tickets).

[DarkDays]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

We certainly appreciate the support and inquiry and we are continuing to work on this matter in detail.  We will keep you posted and we invite you to enjoy Betcoin ring games and tournaments anytime.

First off, let me say that I understand that not having the WPN feed is costing you money and I'm sure you want it up more than we do. 

However my problem is with the communication.  You said the feed would be back on the 11th.  It wasn't.  You said nothing.  You were asked for information.  You said it would come in 6-12 hours.  6-12 hours passed, and you said nothing.  You were asked for the information that you said you'd provide.  You said it would come today.  Today came and went and you said nothing again.  You know that your customers are waiting for information, why not be proactive and say "we know we said we'd have information for you but we're still working on it"?  It's very annoying, from a customers viewpoint, to have to badger you for information.  Which, by the way, still hasn't come.

So, I guess I have one last series of questions.  Does Betcoin plan on offering WPN MTTs and SNGs in the future?  Or is your relationship with WPN over?  What is your projection for when you expect WPN MTTs and SNGs to be offered through Betcoin, if you are in fact still affiliate with that network?  Thank you.

[TwitchySeal]

I'm not sure if it would be best to start a new thread or just post everything in this thread.

I think I might not be able to share images because of my forum newbie status, could a mod give me permission to insert images to my posts? (or let me know what I'm doing wrong?  img /img tags around link to image not workin)

I have many examples of Betcoins unacceptable behavior, I want to share them all.  My motivation for doing this is simple:  I think Betcoin has shown a pattern of unethical behavior.  They do a very good job of maintaining a good appearance to the rest of the poker and bitcoin community with various techniques.  I consider it my responsibility as a player to let other players know whats going on.  It's something I've been putting off for months because I wanted to include all the details- the more I put it off the longer the list gets and it becomes overwhelming.  It think it's best however to just start typing and posting each example one at a time.

I accuse Betcoin and will provide evidence of the following:

- Being fully aware of players being cheated by other players- instead of making victims whole they either:

  A - allow the cheater to keep the funds   
  B - seize and keep funds for themselves
  C - Use the funds for a promotion (clearly same as B imo)

- Not putting reasonable effort into protecting their players from being cheating.

- Being fully aware of past issues with their software which resulted in players either losing funds they shouldn't or not receiving funds they were entitled to and not compensating ALL players appropriately. (if all players suffer from same issue, all players should be compensated equally, regardless of whether all players were aware or complained about issue)

- Being fully aware of current issues with their software which could potentially cause players to lose money and allowing them to continue.

- Lying to players in their live player chat and moderating their forums inconsistently and unethically without explanation. 

- Encouraging players to discredit those who criticize without consideration as to whether or not the criticism was valid.




First Example coming up shortly...

[Betcoin.AG]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday.  

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

We certainly appreciate the support and inquiry and we are continuing to work on this matter in detail.  We will keep you posted and we invite you to enjoy Betcoin ring games and tournaments anytime.

First off, let me say that I understand that not having the WPN feed is costing you money and I'm sure you want it up more than we do.  

However my problem is with the communication.  You said the feed would be back on the 11th.  It wasn't.  You said nothing.  You were asked for information.  You said it would come in 6-12 hours.  6-12 hours passed, and you said nothing.  You were asked for the information that you said you'd provide.  You said it would come today.  Today came and went and you said nothing again.  You know that your customers are waiting for information, why not be proactive and say "we know we said we'd have information for you but we're still working on it"?  It's very annoying, from a customers viewpoint, to have to badger you for information.  Which, by the way, still hasn't come.

So, I guess I have one last series of questions.  Does Betcoin plan on offering WPN MTTs and SNGs in the future?  Or is your relationship with WPN over?  What is your projection for when you expect WPN MTTs and SNGs to be offered through Betcoin, if you are in fact still affiliate with that network?  Thank you.

We certainly apologize for the delay as we want the tournaments back as soon as possible for our great customers, but we will say this has been a very good time for the core of Betcoin.  There is quite a bit of overlap between Betcoin and the WPN and we are all working very hard to make sure that when the tournaments return connectivity issues are resolved and potential fraud is reduced.  Betcoin's connection presented new challenges with regard to security, collusion, potential fraud and more that were cases of new impression.  We certainly want to provide the best place to play and will continue to update you as we move through the process.  Thank you for your comment. 

Until then we invite you to participate in our growing ring games and Betcoin specific tournaments. 

[Betcoin.AG]

The scheduled maintenance was scheduled to be over two days ago but the WPN tournaments still aren't on Betcoin's software.  Are there any updates?

We will have an update by Friday.  The uniqueness of our situation having shared tournaments created some issues with regard to potential DDoS attacks that needed to be fixed.  It's unfortunate that many of the delays or problems are the direct result of individuals attempting to attack our system ultimately to no avail, but it does slow things down and delay things for our great players.  For that we apologize but we will continue to provide a great place for you to play that we will improve everyday. 

It's end of day Friday...do you have an update you can share?  Thanks.

We certainly appreciate the support and inquiry and we are continuing to work on this matter in detail.  We will keep you posted and we invite you to enjoy Betcoin ring games and tournaments anytime.

Betcoin seems dead seriously, its been way too long now.

If you mean dead for the moment with WPN tournaments, then I see your point for the moment, however ring / cash games, Betcoin only tournaments and casino play has never been higher.  Also, sports is very stable and slightly considering even considering the IP filtering.  Thank you Kuriko for your message. 

Even sit n go seems dead, I hardly see any game and barely 200 players online when it used to be over 4-5k but I guess that is due to the wpn effect.

Yes!  SitnGo's were WPN, and Betcoin averaged between 200-300 players during this time with the WPN tournaments.  Thank you for your feedback. 

[ftwbtc1]

Why not play somewhere else?  I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest.  I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play. 

Would that make it ok for Betcoin to behave this way?

(Currently I am playing over 50 hours a week across 4 different sites, Betcoin has not been one of them.  The last time I included Betcoin in my regular schedule was October 11th, working on explaining why now  )

Yes, you sound like a child.  Take your money elsewhere.  I have had a wonderful time at Betcoin and enjoy the community and all of the options of gameplay.  I have also seen you in the player chat and have no idea why you literally spend all day in there.  If I don't like a line at Betcoin Sports I have many other great options to spend my bitcoin on and so do you.  If you don't like it, you also have many great options as well.  Is this a personal issue you have with Betcoin?