bitcoin-trader.biz

[Grinder]

I don't know if you guys noticed, but the founders of this, Andrea Ciceri and Mike Walker, were briefly interviewed on the Bitcoins and Gravy podcast from about two weeks ago: https://soundcloud.com/bitcoins-and-gravy/episode-30-the-bitcoin-car-the-tennessee-bitcoin-alliance

They are only representatives paid to give the impression that this is not a shady anonymous business. They have never met the person or people who actually control BT.

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[mmortal03]

I don't know if you guys noticed, but the founders of this, Andrea Ciceri and Mike Walker, were briefly interviewed on the Bitcoins and Gravy podcast from about two weeks ago: https://soundcloud.com/bitcoins-and-gravy/episode-30-the-bitcoin-car-the-tennessee-bitcoin-alliance

They are only representatives paid to give the impression that this is not a shady anonymous business. They have never met the person or people who actually control BT.

Sorry for the misinformation if this is the case. I thought I'd read somewhere that they'd started it. I know that they own a pub up in Canada, and founded Crypto Kiosk: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/13192/north-bay-gets-bitcoin/

[Rannasha]

I guess there's no time / date for when the audit info is supposed to be made public ??

No, of course not. There will be some delays as the "auditor" is compiling the "report" and then some more delays because the auditors favourite pet squirrel died and then some more delays as BT is verifying the report prior to publication, etc...

The fact that BT hasn't even announced who the auditor is, after the audit has allegedly been performed, is quite telling.

[btcm4n14c]

my guess is they will give a nice gift my christmas to their members 

[cozytrade]

What kind of real business would limit the amount of money they can get from their clients, and why?

Isn't it standard practice in investment fund industry? Also some membership limit the number of clients don't they.
In order to reduce the risk (Investment risk, Reputation risk, Counter party risk etc.)

Limiting the debt means limiting the total asset size within the reasonable size to handle.

[nightengale]

i personally know people that have bought shares and cashed them out after the 120 days. and coupled with the fact that i havent had a single issue with withdrawing funds daily... the question is... how long do you have to wait before you consider it "legit"?

It's a ponzi today and it will still be a ponzi tomorrow, so never. Unless they drastically reduce the payouts they will fold this year or the next, though. Madoff only paid about 10%/year, which is part of the reason why his ponzi lasted for so long.

I actually think their results from arbitrage are reasonable. I was involved with the btc-arbs drama, and there has to be some money in arbitrage as the operator of that service is purportedly repaying depositors with arbitrage funds. To my understanding, he's no longer accepting deposits but is paying depositors back. I have received payments and can verify this.

I also think they are still trading with depositor money on weekends and holidays and keeping those profits. Not exactly ethical, but if that motivates them to keep this thing going, our incentives appear to be aligned.

[blackhathasher]

I also think they are still trading with depositor money on weekends and holidays and keeping those profits. Not exactly ethical, but if that motivates them to keep this thing going, our incentives appear to be aligned.

I believe this to be exactly the case. And if so, I am ok with that as long as I keep making my 20% per month... win/win.

I have looked at the mechanics of the arbitrage game myself and ALMOST created a similar platform. The real trick to making this all work is not in how they are making money (that's easy), it is in how they rebalance their cash accounts after the trades. With more cash volume it becomes easier to rebalance those cash accounts. With bitcoin it takes 10 minutes and boom you're done so volume isnt a big issues, but in order to rebalance the cash accounts you have to wait on wire transfers and the banks SUCK at this, even losing money on occasion. So with more volume in their cash accounts it makes it easier to rebalance faster for the next trade.

I have read it asked here before somewhere "why if they are so profitable would they want our money to trade on, why not just use their own and keep all the profits" or something similar... well that is why. very large volumes of cash are required to make the trading profitable for one reason... "cash account rebalancing".

So far I am VERY happy with how Bitcoin-Trader has done things.

If people want to scream "ponzi" ok... well time will tell... Be smart.

or just take a look at https://www.btclegacy.com/ and let's begin talking about their "legitimacy".... I almost want to put money in them just to see WTH is the deal.

[vach]

I also think they are still trading with depositor money on weekends and holidays and keeping those profits. Not exactly ethical, but if that motivates them to keep this thing going, our incentives appear to be aligned.

I believe this to be exactly the case. And if so, I am ok with that as long as I keep making my 20% per month... win/win.

I have looked at the mechanics of the arbitrage game myself and ALMOST created a similar platform. The real trick to making this all work is not in how they are making money (that's easy), it is in how they rebalance their cash accounts after the trades. With more cash volume it becomes easier to rebalance those cash accounts. With bitcoin it takes 10 minutes and boom you're done so volume isnt a big issues, but in order to rebalance the cash accounts you have to wait on wire transfers and the banks SUCK at this, even losing money on occasion. So with more volume in their cash accounts it makes it easier to rebalance faster for the next trade.

I have read it asked here before somewhere "why if they are so profitable would they want our money to trade on, why not just use their own and keep all the profits" or something similar... well that is why. very large volumes of cash are required to make the trading profitable for one reason... "cash account rebalancing".

So far I am VERY happy with how Bitcoin-Trader has done things.

If people want to scream "ponzi" ok... well time will tell... Be smart.

or just take a look at https://www.btclegacy.com/ and let's begin talking about their "legitimacy".... I almost want to put money in them just to see WTH is the deal.

You're naive of you think someone is moving finds via wire transfer in order to do arbitrage...

[alani123]

or just take a look at https://www.btclegacy.com/ and let's begin talking about their "legitimacy".... I almost want to put money in them just to see WTH is the deal.

btclegacy is a hyip and they even advertise as one. That's all you need to know about their "legitimacy".

[blackhathasher]

You're naive of you think someone someone is  moving finds via wire transfer in order to do arbitrage...

you're naive if you think i am naive  <-- look i can play that game too (useless waste of bandwidth)

[Rannasha]

I also think they are still trading with depositor money on weekends and holidays and keeping those profits. Not exactly ethical, but if that motivates them to keep this thing going, our incentives appear to be aligned.

I believe this to be exactly the case. And if so, I am ok with that as long as I keep making my 20% per month... win/win.

I have looked at the mechanics of the arbitrage game myself and ALMOST created a similar platform. The real trick to making this all work is not in how they are making money (that's easy), it is in how they rebalance their cash accounts after the trades. With more cash volume it becomes easier to rebalance those cash accounts. With bitcoin it takes 10 minutes and boom you're done so volume isnt a big issues, but in order to rebalance the cash accounts you have to wait on wire transfers and the banks SUCK at this, even losing money on occasion. So with more volume in their cash accounts it makes it easier to rebalance faster for the next trade.

I have read it asked here before somewhere "why if they are so profitable would they want our money to trade on, why not just use their own and keep all the profits" or something similar... well that is why. very large volumes of cash are required to make the trading profitable for one reason... "cash account rebalancing".

So far I am VERY happy with how Bitcoin-Trader has done things.

If people want to scream "ponzi" ok... well time will tell... Be smart.

or just take a look at https://www.btclegacy.com/ and let's begin talking about their "legitimacy".... I almost want to put money in them just to see WTH is the deal.

You're naive of you think someone is moving finds via wire transfer in order to do arbitrage...

Then enlighten us...

[nightengale]

Just saw this tweet:

https://twitter.com/30somethingSTL/status/508682818839269376

Wonder if there will be a response from Matonis, and what it will be...

[Illutian]

Because the Bitcoin Foundation has been 'above board' 

[mmortal03]

I guess there's no time / date for when the audit info is supposed to be made public ??

From their Facebook page:

The proof of solvency will be started tomorrow,non-trading day will be on Thursday 4-09-14.Results will be posted when we receive them.

[vach]

Regarding arbitrage i have explained it before on this forum, in short you never move fund from one exchange to other. Think that you can only trade in both, in that case you only need prices to vary on both exchanges. Challenge yourself and try to figure it out.

You only consider one price against other, I'm doing that myself but there are lot of space for optimization, and that's the hardest part.

Btw anyone knows where can i get historical data for major exchanges?

[blackhathasher]

Uh you think thats some safely kept secret?

Thats how real arbitrage works. Any arbitrage trader can tell you that.

However you're incorrect in saying that you never shift your funds from one exchange to another. Thats what a rebalancing of your cash account is for.

[Minerjoe]

How many people have actually reached profit zone using Bitcoin trader?

[sunny1]

Just saw this tweet:

https://twitter.com/30somethingSTL/status/508682818839269376

Wonder if there will be a response from Matonis, and what it will be...

Since they are sponsoring Bitcon Foundation events, I would guess that they can consider them friends.

[sunny1]

How many people have actually reached profit zone using Bitcoin trader?

Probably hundreds did. Consider that just a fraction of their customers is participating in public forums and they are in their 3rd 120 day cycle now.

[Minerjoe]

How many people have actually reached profit zone using Bitcoin trader?

Probably hundreds did. Consider that just a fraction of their customers is participating in public forums and they are in their 3rd 120 day cycle now.

So how can this be a ponzi then? What kind of ponzi lets hundreds of its users to make money??? If this is a ponzi a users make money, this means that ponzi loses money.
Just does not fit.