[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Anatol Kir]

I wasn't really thinking about a clean internet, I was thinking about cleaning up the existing internet and providing a place where adult stuff could be moved onto, and charge the little fuckers that produce that stuff - backed by pressure groups and governments to move to our MN service.

Mrs. Robinson, from memory Google started out with just 250 networked computers that were storing data. Now look at them, they are like SkyNet.

As everything moves to the cloud, servers, processing power and bandwidth are dropping in price as competition heats up.  Its a good time to get thousands of big fat MN servers all serving up your porn of choice, with those thousands and thousands of seedy little Hugh Henfer wannabes paying MNs for he privilege of servicing their clients needs.

Sanity returns!  

This talk sounds like an idea for a new coin, safteynetcoin. This is not for DRK. I hate to be the one to sound evil here but this is an anon coin and the mass adoption will come from the first killer app that people must have. It was silk road that got regular people to use bitcoins and it will be something similar that gets people to use darkcoins.

You could feature creep this roll-out real quickly by getting carried away and high minded with your goals. Like any project, its best to stay focused and keep it simple. Adoption is what we seek and like any new tech, you need a killer app to spread adoption. All efforts should be in catering to those killer app developers.

If we can be part of a coin that provides true anonymity and a platform for building a network like darktor, I promise you that the first wave of users will NOT be looking for a porn free utopian society. If that bothers you, go start safteynetcoin.

[RenegadeMan]

The average IT project implementation timeline is 3-5 years

This project is 8 months old, marketing will happen when the team is ready.

Until then, enjoy these low prices, you're not going to see them ever again...

I doubt if an everage user is gonna be ready to wait that long. Considering the price is creeping down day and night.  

F**k the average user.
Bitcoin didn't go to 1000 $ because of average users.
It also didn't maintain it's pricelevel around 500$ for the last half year because of average users.

If history repeats itself, the following will happen:
You can now buy darkcoin at insanely low prices.
In 1-2 years you can sell those darkcoins to "average users" for a price - order of magnitudes higher.

The average user is always late to the party.
So.... wait for the party, prepare yourself.
When the "johnny come latelies" arrive, you will have to be here to fullfill their needs...
If you have given up in the meantime, then there will be no party for you!  

Most people who got rich with bitcoin held on to their coins for atleast 1-2 years, before they couldn't resist selling a few at the Nov 2013 spike.
So, that seems to be the behaviour that leads to success. NOT daytrading.

I subscribe to every word. Hold on to your DRK for awhile and everything's gonna be allright.

An average user creates transactions volume, spreads the word about the coin and does many useful things. A currency won't be able to survive long term just by relying on a few loyal (long-sighted) users. If DRK aspires for mass-adoption, the average user should be catered to as well. Also your example of Bitcoin doesn't fit in the current picture. There was no competition back in 2009 hence people interested in digital currencies had no other options than stick to Bitcoin.
  

+1

It's very tiring to hear the "DRK elite club anthem" being sung so often by so many. There are three rules that are going to ensure DRK is successful:

1. Adoption
2. Adoption
3. Adoption

We need lots and lots of "average users" because it's adoption that will make it fly and fly high.

So georgem, while I can understand some of what you're inferring in relation to committed users in it for the long haul, I think your statement "F**k the average user" is the very epitome of what we DON'T want to do. We want to encourage all manner of people to take an interest in Darkcoin and learn why financial privacy (and eventually online privacy) is fundamental to a free society. We want these average users to be able to explain this to their friends and family. We want average people to become aware of what governments and big business the world over take from them on an hourly basis and how they can use Darkcoin to protect themselves and support financial liberty.

geez cjrist.  This is still in development.  you dont like the timeline and the drive to have a successful mature and hardened coin then please invest in another coin!  This argument has been hashed on here so often that its getting tiresome.   Do we look like morons here.... obviously a coin needs adoption by average joe to increase in value  and for to have utility... why the hell else would we have a coin to start with.  its insulting our intelligence here by stating the obvious.

This coin is IN DEVELOPMENT!   Thus adoption is not appropriate at this time yet.... that would be cart before the horse.   Those  that dont like the timeline... your free to leave the building.

Settle bigrcanada, this is a discussion. I don't for a minute think you're a moron and I'm not trying to insult your intelligence.

Of course it's still in development, I'm not suggesting it isn't. But imagine product development on a horizontal line with extremes at each end as follows:

Product well developed                                                                                               Product highly marketed
robust, hardened but  <----------------------------------------------------------------------> rushed into full release
no marketing, little awareness                                                                                     Massive hype & uptake
commercially unsuccessful                                                                                          Lots of problems & failures

What could so easily happen here is DRK ends up too far towards the left hand end of this imaginary line and we're overtaken by other developments out there that are more towards the right hand end, achieve critical mass quicker, albeit with an inferior product that's technically lacking. I've worked in IT for 30 years, seen all manner of software products thought up, planned, developed, released. What happens time and time again to products being marketed by highly technical people who are motivated to get the architecture 100% right is they're overtaken by a competitor that potentially has an inferior product but brings a more pragmatic approach which wins hearts an minds earlier through advanced adoption (and I'm not saying this is DRK or Evan's mindset, just highlighting the danger).

So, excuse me but...

you dont like the timeline and the drive to have a successful mature and hardened coin then please invest in another coin!

...DOES NOT take into account the commercial realities that there is limited time to make this work and adoption IS everything in this space.

I know all too well the disaster that can happen when technology is pushed out into the marketplace before it's ready. A bug-ridden product with holes all through it can completely sink a project and turn it's name into mud. Likewise a really robust, well built product with a fine architecture can also be just too slow and miss the boat completely and then eventually die because the adoption isn't there. (But alternatively after success is won, a leading product that rests on its laurels and doesn't move forward will get trumped at some point too). All of these potential outcomes are key aspects of a product development strategy and things that must be considered.

All I'm saying is that adoption is the most fundamentally important aspect of this project and I'd rather see a measured approach of finding the best compromise somewhere along that line than potentially being too far down the left hand end and a beautifully developed DRK being irrelevant because it's missed the boat.

[thelonecrouton]

Hi thelonecrouton,

I understand what you are saying. Some different perspectives here and that's awesome! By the way I'm a fan of your multisig efforts, thank you! I'll try to answer you best I can:

How can you determine what to filter if you can't see it? Everything on MasterNet should be computationally unfeasable to snoop, or the whole thing's pointless. ---- Well if information is going to be shared it needs to be visible, its the access to it which will be safe right? What I'm mainly understanding right now is that whoever would use the safenet would have their personal data protected and also not be tracked online. Like Tor but better. People will see what is one it, but an individual's personal activity will be protected, basically a guarantee of an individuals rights of freedom. So I don't understand fully your comment ''or the whole thing is pointless''.  

Because you can't. And if you can, the system is worthless. ----- why? Here also, is the point supposed to be porn? So if it addresses all security and privacy issues and doesn't do porn its useless?  

This is just gibberish. Porn exists, it's big business, why would I as a MN owner want to turn away revenue? ---- Here I have another question, is there more money in pornography or in all the other sectors of the world combined?

If you don't like porn, avoid it, what other people do is none of your business - you know, the whole fucking point of Darkcoin? ---- I know what you are saying here too... However, ask yourself what are the two main things governemnets say about anonymity online? They say it helps hide terrorists and criminals like pedophiles. If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two. For the terrorism thing, I guess we will have to work on a world where people no longer want to do such things because their is no reason to. We can also point out how cash is no different in that case too....

well the pedophiles hurt the children thats the point there (the governments too), and it doesn't hurt anyone to not have regular porno on something that doesn't exist yet if they can already find it somewhere else and if that thing isn't meant for that... As for the technically impossible thats not my specialty, I'm just throwing some ideas out there for the community... I'm surprised you think pornography has such an important place in a safenet. Good discussion on these challenging ideas...  

I don't think you do. I don't really give a damn about porn, but I care about privacy.

For MasterNet to be useful to anyone, it has to be completely private, anonymous and secure. If anyone can see what you are up to except yourself, it is broken and worthless.

And if it is completely private, anonymous and secure, there is no way to filter or censor content.

And I don't care what idiot politicians babble about, the NSA funds TOR, supposed haven of child molesters and Al Quaeda, expecting anything other than nonsense from such people is futile.

[BTCgraphics]

Good progress guys. Keep up the great work. Price keeps rising and rising because drk is defiantly  the best annon coin ever made.

[RenegadeMan]

Hi thelonecrouton,

I understand what you are saying. Some different perspectives here and that's awesome! By the way I'm a fan of your multisig efforts, thank you! I'll try to answer you best I can:

How can you determine what to filter if you can't see it? Everything on MasterNet should be computationally unfeasable to snoop, or the whole thing's pointless. ---- Well if information is going to be shared it needs to be visible, its the access to it which will be safe right? What I'm mainly understanding right now is that whoever would use the safenet would have their personal data protected and also not be tracked online. Like Tor but better. People will see what is one it, but an individual's personal activity will be protected, basically a guarantee of an individuals rights of freedom. So I don't understand fully your comment ''or the whole thing is pointless''.  

Because you can't. And if you can, the system is worthless. ----- why? Here also, is the point supposed to be porn? So if it addresses all security and privacy issues and doesn't do porn its useless?  

This is just gibberish. Porn exists, it's big business, why would I as a MN owner want to turn away revenue? ---- Here I have another question, is there more money in pornography or in all the other sectors of the world combined?

If you don't like porn, avoid it, what other people do is none of your business - you know, the whole fucking point of Darkcoin? ---- I know what you are saying here too... However, ask yourself what are the two main things governemnets say about anonymity online? They say it helps hide terrorists and criminals like pedophiles. If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two. For the terrorism thing, I guess we will have to work on a world where people no longer want to do such things because their is no reason to. We can also point out how cash is no different in that case too....

well the pedophiles hurt the children thats the point there (the governments too), and it doesn't hurt anyone to not have regular porno on something that doesn't exist yet if they can already find it somewhere else and if that thing isn't meant for that... As for the technically impossible thats not my specialty, I'm just throwing some ideas out there for the community... I'm surprised you think pornography has such an important place in a safenet. Good discussion on these challenging ideas... 

I don't think you do. I don't really give a damn about porn, but I care about privacy.

For MasterNet to be useful to anyone, it has to be completely private, anonymous and secure. If anyone can see what you are up to except yourself, it is broken and worthless.

And if it is completely private, anonymous and secure, there is no way to filter or censor content.

This entire conversation is almost an oxymoron. This bit r-ando

However, ask yourself what are the two main things governemnets say about anonymity online? They say it helps hide terrorists and criminals like pedophiles. If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two. For the terrorism thing, I guess we will have to work on a world where people no longer want to do such things because their is no reason to. We can also point out how cash is no different in that case too....

"If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two"

Tell me you're having a joke with us all...! We're talking about a Tor-like network. How would you prevent any particular type of content being on there!!!

[r-ando]

The SafetyNet nodes wouldn't be able to see content. SafetyNet could make it known the content it blocks from the off. No need to comb the content.

How can you determine what to filter if you can't see it? Everything on MasterNet should be computationally unfeasable to snoop, or the whole thing's pointless.

why not make the new internet pornography content free from the very beginning?

Because you can't. And if you can, the system is worthless.

I know censorship is terrible. I'm just thinking since pornography already has its place it would not be censured only channeled to a specific spot, the old internet. If porn was relegated to the old internet there would be no reason to have it on the new one because if people were really concerned about hiding what porno they watch they can buy a dvd or go through the original Tor on the old internet if they want to. This way no one can see what they are doing and if they are concerned about compromising their IP adresse with relation to pornography irrelevant of content they are surely into something wrong. (maybe politics   ) and what is the government going to do or say, they are watching some kind of porn? This would silence any claims of relation between anonymity on the web and child pornography once and for all. We need to eventually work to take that stick away from them might as well do it now.

This is just gibberish. Porn exists, it's big business, why would I as a MN owner want to turn away revenue?

If you don't like porn, avoid it, what other people do is none of your business - you know, the whole fucking point of Darkcoin?

If the user could filter content, that's fine, but we can't do it for them.

What if it was voted on by the users of the system through a voting system built directly into the client?

 And to enforce the removal of an infraction, the removal must be proposed by a system user and also collectively voted on, if the vote chooses to remove it it should be automatically removed and the user who posted it should have a suspension of access for a period of time depending on prior suspension, this would stop any fake copyright similar issues from appearing too like has been happening on youtube.

What part of "what other people do is none of your business as long as it isn't harming you in any way" is not clear to you?  Also, see my previous comments about it being technically impossible anyway.

Hi thelonecrouton,

I understand what you are saying. Some different perspectives here and that's awesome! By the way I'm a fan of your multisig efforts, thank you! I'll try to answer you best I can:

How can you determine what to filter if you can't see it? Everything on MasterNet should be computationally unfeasable to snoop, or the whole thing's pointless. ---- Well if information is going to be shared it needs to be visible, its the access to it which will be safe right? What I'm mainly understanding right now is that whoever would use the safenet would have their personal data protected and also not be tracked online. Like Tor but better. People will see what is one it, but an individual's personal activity will be protected, basically a guarantee of an individuals rights of freedom. So I don't understand fully your comment ''or the whole thing is pointless''.  

Because you can't. And if you can, the system is worthless. ----- why? Here also, is the point supposed to be porn? So if it addresses all security and privacy issues and doesn't do porn its useless?  

This is just gibberish. Porn exists, it's big business, why would I as a MN owner want to turn away revenue? ---- Here I have another question, is there more money in pornography or in all the other sectors of the world combined?

If you don't like porn, avoid it, what other people do is none of your business - you know, the whole fucking point of Darkcoin? ---- I know what you are saying here too... However, ask yourself what are the two main things governemnets say about anonymity online? They say it helps hide terrorists and criminals like pedophiles. If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two. For the terrorism thing, I guess we will have to work on a world where people no longer want to do such things because their is no reason to. We can also point out how cash is no different in that case too....

well the pedophiles hurt the children thats the point there (the governments too), and it doesn't hurt anyone to not have regular porno on something that doesn't exist yet if they can already find it somewhere else and if that thing isn't meant for that... As for the technically impossible thats not my specialty, I'm just throwing some ideas out there for the community... I'm surprised you think pornography has such an important place in a safenet. Good discussion on these challenging ideas...  

Good grief r-ando the naivety you're demonstrating here is astounding. You're talking a language like pornography is a black and white concept that's as clearly identified as the difference between animal, mineral and vegetable. Before you even start thinking about the "Darktor" as a place that would be "free of pornography", hence would potentially avoid paedophiles wanting to use it you would have to enter the enormously complex sociological debate "What is pornography?"

I am as unenthused by the world's pornography epidemic as most thinking people are, but I also know that the very second you start making moral judgements on behalf of other people you have entered the realm of censorship and big-brother monitoring, THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT AVOIDING!

The "Darktor" is about complete and absolute privacy without some central authority deciding what is and isn't good for us. Your judgement around "pornography" and it being "negative" has absolutely no place within what's trying to be achieved here.

If what you're stating would come to pass, who decides what's pornography? Are you going to put forward a complex categorisation process to determine what is and what isn't pornography? I think you're naive in the extreme and this is just a silly notion.

You're talking a language like pornography is a black and white concept that's as clearly identified as the difference between animal, mineral and vegetable ---- No actually its not, I suggest you read again. I am making no judgement for or against pornography in what I say (Yes I am against child pornography deal with it). And neither do I attempt to conceptualize or define pornography, what I am saying is that porn is not what should be promoted or protected the most right now much less used to establish the fundamentals of a new internet and its interesting that you would want to limit this boundless innovation and its potential for evolution and change by limiting it to 1: a ''better'' financial move, 2 risking to taint it with the  the association to pornography as a primary reference? Everyone has opinions I guess... I'm not saying we should judge anything, just maybe avoid the porn issue and risk or association on a primary level with porn and on a secondary level with child porn claims...avoid it altogether altogether by not having any in my opinion... it already has its place today and the old internet will need a use once everyone uses the safenet for their everyday transactions and business.


Your judgement around "pornography" and it being "negative" has absolutely no place within what's trying to be achieved here------- Once again, I haven't judged pornography, although yes I am personally against child pornography.

If what you're stating would come to pass, who decides what's pornography? Are you going to put forward a complex categorisation process to determine what is and what isn't pornography? I think you're naive in the extreme and this is just a silly notion.---------------We don't decide, just avoid it altogether? The point isn't to become police lets provide for education, safety and wealth for the whole world so there is no longer a need to police. (maybe occasionally )If you take away the child porn claim possibility, you basically take away half the governments argument for spying, lobbying, instating laws against you... and google snooping with gmail! Plus you ensure access to a bigger market, the rest of the world. We still really like the delivery drones    

A voting system for taking down content could be established and a process for creating a vote on a perceived issue also.... Vote for, against, no vote, need more time please click here for information, how is this complex?  Create no more than 1 voting issue per x amount of time... Option to turn off voting, option to select area of interest of participation of votes in the case where voting is based on world issues or concerns... etc. and votes could be redone at will too every so often to see if people think differently about different issues over time and want to implement changes... maybe around taxes?  

[r-ando]

I wasn't really thinking about a clean internet, I was thinking about cleaning up the existing internet and providing a place where adult stuff could be moved onto, and charge the little fuckers that produce that stuff - backed by pressure groups and governments to move to our MN service.

Mrs. Robinson, from memory Google started out with just 250 networked computers that were storing data. Now look at them, they are like SkyNet.

As everything moves to the cloud, servers, processing power and bandwidth are dropping in price as competition heats up.  Its a good time to get thousands of big fat MN servers all serving up your porn of choice, with those thousands and thousands of seedy little Hugh Henfer wannabes paying MNs for he privilege of servicing their clients needs.

Sanity returns!  

This talk sounds like an idea for a new coin, safteynetcoin. This is not for DRK. I hate to be the one to sound evil here but this is an anon coin and the mass adoption will come from the first killer app that people must have. It was silk road that got regular people to use bitcoins and it will be something similar that gets people to use darkcoins.

You could feature creep this roll-out real quickly by getting carried away and high minded with your goals. Like any project, its best to stay focused and keep it simple. Adoption is what we seek and like any new tech, you need a killer app to spread adoption. All efforts should be in catering to those killer app developers.

If we can be part of a coin that provides true anonymity and a platform for building a network like darktor, I promise you that the first wave of users will NOT be looking for a porn free utopian society. If that bothers you, go start safteynetcoin.

Hi Anatol,

If we can be part of a coin that provides true anonymity and a platform for building a network like darktor, I promise you that the first wave of users will NOT be looking for a porn free utopian society. If that bothers you, go start safteynetcoin. -------- I didn't talk about porn free society, I talked about a new porn free internet, because porn isn't the point even though it might be the conclusion to many peoples nights. Pornography also doesn't bother me personally, which once again isn't the point. The first wave of users will not come for porn is what I'm saying, the people who have porn already have porn, now you want to try to make people pay for it when its already free? I like my idea more....

[RenegadeMan]

A voting system for taking down content could be established and a process for creating a vote on a perceived issue also.... Vote for, against, no vote, need more time please click here for information, how is this complex?  Create no more than 1 voting issue per x amount of time... Option to turn off voting, option to select area of interest of participation of votes in the case where voting is based on world issues or concerns... etc. and votes could be redone at will too every so often to see if people think differently about different issues over time and want to implement changes... maybe around taxes?  

So all websites within the "Darktor" have to have some sort of shell construct around them so votes could be cast against each and every page and then all the metadata associated with all the votes feeds back into a centralised database that then determines when pages are going to be "taken down", when they're still within their timeframe to be altered and "re-submitted" for everyone to "vote" again, and then when they're experiencing 50/50 "votes" on whether they're considered "pornography" on not they'll go to some sort of user-based committee that will make a ruling? And all this will be run in real time across (the likely) thousands and thousands of websites that will be part of the Darktor?

as I've said in a subsequent post, I think you're having a joke with us all...

[r-ando]

Hi thelonecrouton,

I understand what you are saying. Some different perspectives here and that's awesome! By the way I'm a fan of your multisig efforts, thank you! I'll try to answer you best I can:

How can you determine what to filter if you can't see it? Everything on MasterNet should be computationally unfeasable to snoop, or the whole thing's pointless. ---- Well if information is going to be shared it needs to be visible, its the access to it which will be safe right? What I'm mainly understanding right now is that whoever would use the safenet would have their personal data protected and also not be tracked online. Like Tor but better. People will see what is one it, but an individual's personal activity will be protected, basically a guarantee of an individuals rights of freedom. So I don't understand fully your comment ''or the whole thing is pointless''.  

Because you can't. And if you can, the system is worthless. ----- why? Here also, is the point supposed to be porn? So if it addresses all security and privacy issues and doesn't do porn its useless?  

This is just gibberish. Porn exists, it's big business, why would I as a MN owner want to turn away revenue? ---- Here I have another question, is there more money in pornography or in all the other sectors of the world combined?

If you don't like porn, avoid it, what other people do is none of your business - you know, the whole fucking point of Darkcoin? ---- I know what you are saying here too... However, ask yourself what are the two main things governemnets say about anonymity online? They say it helps hide terrorists and criminals like pedophiles. If we eliminate the pedophile angle their terrorist angle will be the only one left and it will be easier for us to win on one front than two. For the terrorism thing, I guess we will have to work on a world where people no longer want to do such things because their is no reason to. We can also point out how cash is no different in that case too....

well the pedophiles hurt the children thats the point there (the governments too), and it doesn't hurt anyone to not have regular porno on something that doesn't exist yet if they can already find it somewhere else and if that thing isn't meant for that... As for the technically impossible thats not my specialty, I'm just throwing some ideas out there for the community... I'm surprised you think pornography has such an important place in a safenet. Good discussion on these challenging ideas...  

I don't think you do. I don't really give a damn about porn, but I care about privacy.

For MasterNet to be useful to anyone, it has to be completely private, anonymous and secure. If anyone can see what you are up to except yourself, it is broken and worthless.

And if it is completely private, anonymous and secure, there is no way to filter or censor content.

And I don't care what idiot politicians babble about, the NSA funds TOR, supposed haven of child molesters and Al Quaeda, expecting anything other than nonsense from such people is futile.

Hi thelonecrouton,

I care about privacy too my friend. You are like a hero to me for your work on the project and the beautiful things you are working on like multisig. Thank you for talking about this with me. You stated:  If anyone can see what you are up to except yourself, it is broken and worthless.------ I agree completely, but that doesn't exclude anyone from seeing what exists as far as content, thats a distinction in itself. So basically, I can't see what you do, but I can see what your not doing ''child porn'' because it doesn't exist on the internet you use and this can be verified....(like a block chain?)      So when you say: And if it is completely private, anonymous and secure, there is no way to filter or censor content. ------- if it is privately owned by everyone ( and some people will have more coins like you! With great power comes great respo...   ), privately owned by everyone, anonymous and secure, whether or not content violates something could be voted on. It would be interesting to see is how the votes would differ from our perceived realities of current issues.

And I don't care what idiot politicians babble about, the NSA funds TOR, supposed haven of child molesters and Al Quaeda, expecting anything other than nonsense from such people is futile.-------  Exactly, we should expect it and plan accordingly.

[r-ando]

A voting system for taking down content could be established and a process for creating a vote on a perceived issue also.... Vote for, against, no vote, need more time please click here for information, how is this complex?  Create no more than 1 voting issue per x amount of time... Option to turn off voting, option to select area of interest of participation of votes in the case where voting is based on world issues or concerns... etc. and votes could be redone at will too every so often to see if people think differently about different issues over time and want to implement changes... maybe around taxes?  

So all websites within the "Darktor" have to have some sort of shell construct around them so votes could be cast against each and every page and then all the metadata associated with all the votes feeds back into a centralised database that then determines when pages are going to be "taken down", when they're still within their timeframe to be altered and "re-submitted" for everyone to "vote" again, and then when they're experiencing 50/50 "votes" on whether they're considered "pornography" on not they'll go to some sort of user-based committee that will make a ruling? And all this will be run in real time across (the likely) thousands and thousands of websites that will be part of the Darktor?

as I've said in a subsequent post, I think you're having a joke with us all...

So all websites within the "Darktor" have to have some sort of shell construct around them so votes could be cast against each and every page and then all the metadata associated with all the votes feeds back into a centralised database that then determines when pages are going to be "taken down", when they're still within their timeframe to be altered and "re-submitted" for everyone to "vote" again --------- Interesting, very interesting.

and then when they're experiencing 50/50 "votes" on whether they're considered "pornography" on not they'll go to some sort of user-based committee that will make a ruling------ what would be the odds of this happening? If it happened, vote gain until a different result is achieved... if we also need to vote again on an issue 2, 5, 10, 30 years later, so be it things change with time.

And all this will be run in real time across (the likely) thousands and thousands of websites that will be part of the Darktor?-------   A stair is made of many steps. Just thinking a bit here... Glad to have this discussion, thank you.

[TanteStefana2]

On a more positive note... Id like to organize a Darkcoin community get together in the up coming year.  what are the thoughts to the idea?  

Hawaii or Barcelona.

Bring the wine. 

We have a very active Bitcoin community in Barcelona  Some are Darkcoin supporters too: 

http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-barcelona

I would love help fernando to organize a meeting

Oh!  Barcelona!  I LOVE Antonio Gaudi! 

But will we be rich enough to go so soon?  LOL.  If so, I'll be there!

[TanteStefana2]

Good grief r-ando the naivety you're demonstrating here is astounding. You're talking a language like pornography is a black and white concept that's as clearly identified as the difference between animal, mineral and vegetable. Before you even start thinking about the "Darktor" as a place that would be "free of pornography", hence would potentially avoid paedophiles wanting to use it you would have to enter the enormously complex sociological debate "What is pornography?"

I am as unenthused by the world's pornography epidemic as most thinking people are, but I also know that the very second you start making moral judgements on behalf of other people you have entered the realm of censorship and big-brother monitoring, THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT AVOIDING!

The "Darktor" is about complete and absolute privacy without some central authority deciding what is and isn't good for us. Your judgement around "pornography" and it being "negative" has absolutely no place within what's trying to be achieved here.

If what you're stating would come to pass, who decides what's pornography? Are you going to put forward a complex categorisation process to determine what is and what isn't pornography? I think you're naive in the extreme and this is just a silly notion.

Unfortunately, RenegadeMan is absolutely correct.  Don't get me wrong, it pains me to see young women misuse their bodies for money and drugs, etc.... and the thought of what has and will be done to children just makes me want to barf or go on a killing spree.  BUT, that slippery slope is the most dangerous path humanity is constantly being tempted with.  Aside from the question of who gets to make these moral decisions, we would also be opening ourselves up to being responsible for these things getting to the masses if they slipped through.  I hope you can understand this. 

[cyanez]

R-Ando,

Your conclusion is incorrect. Eliminating pornography from DarkTor (even if such a thing were technically feasible) would NOT make it easier to fight government involvement in DarkTor. The government may say that spying on its citizens is necessary because of all the horrible things that happen in the Internet's dark alleys, but the real reason is because it simply wants control over its citizens. Have you ever watched a politician on TV that didn't seem to think he knew better than you?

So let's pretend you can eliminate porn from DarkTor transactions. Do you think the government won't continue to make it's case for spying on you based on terrorism issues alone? Or that it won't bring other issues into the argument (human trafficking, drugs, illegal xBox mods, etc)? When you take away a thief's access to a particular house, is it plausible to think he'll stop being a thief, or more likely he'll simply pick another house?

What's interesting to me is that you've held up the dual pillars of pornography and terrorism and argued that by eliminating one, you neuter the government's argument against DarkTor, making it easier to fight them.

Why did you choose pornography?

Why not choose terrorism? Which is worse for a society? You want to eliminate boobies, but blowing up kids in a crowded market is okay? Your choice says something about how you view the world. If you examine your choice a little deeper and try to imagine eliminating the "pillar" you didn't choose, you might discover how impossible what you're proposing really is.

DRK is cash, plain and simple. What you're suggesting is that cash be used for all goods and services known to humanity, except one.

Huh?!

[r-ando]

Good grief r-ando the naivety you're demonstrating here is astounding. You're talking a language like pornography is a black and white concept that's as clearly identified as the difference between animal, mineral and vegetable. Before you even start thinking about the "Darktor" as a place that would be "free of pornography", hence would potentially avoid paedophiles wanting to use it you would have to enter the enormously complex sociological debate "What is pornography?"

I am as unenthused by the world's pornography epidemic as most thinking people are, but I also know that the very second you start making moral judgements on behalf of other people you have entered the realm of censorship and big-brother monitoring, THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT AVOIDING!

The "Darktor" is about complete and absolute privacy without some central authority deciding what is and isn't good for us. Your judgement around "pornography" and it being "negative" has absolutely no place within what's trying to be achieved here.

If what you're stating would come to pass, who decides what's pornography? Are you going to put forward a complex categorisation process to determine what is and what isn't pornography? I think you're naive in the extreme and this is just a silly notion.

Unfortunately, RenegadeMan is absolutely correct.  Don't get me wrong, it pains me to see young women misuse their bodies for money and drugs, etc.... and the thought of what has and will be done to children just makes me want to barf or go on a killing spree.  BUT, that slippery slope is the most dangerous path humanity is constantly being tempted with.  Aside from the question of who gets to make these moral decisions, we would also be opening ourselves up to being responsible for these things getting to the masses if they slipped through.  I hope you can understand this. 

What is he absolutely correct about?    You still don't see it but its there, read back a bit please concerning the vote. I think this is mostly what you are referring too: ''very second you start making moral judgements on behalf of other people you have entered the realm of censorship and big-brother monitoring, THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT AVOIDING!''

 Fortunately, with such a direct representation moral judgements are the will of the people concerning themselves, there is no censorship only the choice of the people regarding themselves and there is no need for a big brother because the people decide for themselves. What else is there to say, please and with the utmost respect, I ask that you rethink anything you are convinced about, remain open to the possibilities and slow to judge a creative thought.   Have a great night!

[r-ando]

R-Ando,

Your conclusion is incorrect. Eliminating pornography from DarkTor (even if such a thing were technically feasible) would NOT make it easier to fight government involvement in DarkTor. The government may say that spying on its citizens is necessary because of all the horrible things that happen in the Internet's dark alleys, but the real reason is because it simply wants control over its citizens. Have you ever watched a politician on TV that didn't seem to think he knew better than you?

So let's pretend you can eliminate porn from DarkTor transactions. Do you think the government won't continue to make it's case for spying on you based on terrorism issues alone? Or that it won't bring other issues into the argument (human trafficking, drugs, illegal xBox mods, etc)? When you take away a thief's access to a particular house, is it plausible to think he'll stop being a thief, or more likely he'll simply pick another house?

What's interesting to me is that you've held up the dual pillars of pornography and terrorism and argued that by eliminating one, you neuter the government's argument against DarkTor, making it easier to fight them.

Why did you choose pornography?

Why not choose terrorism? Which is worse for a society? You want to eliminate boobies, but blowing up kids in a crowded market is okay? Your choice says something about how you view the world. If you examine your choice a little deeper and try to imagine eliminating the "pillar" you didn't choose, you might discover how impossible what you're proposing really is.

DRK is cash, plain and simple. What you're suggesting is that cash be used for all goods and services known to humanity, except one.

Huh?!

''why not choose terrorism?''      ''If you examine your choice a little deeper and try to imagine eliminating the ''pillar'' you didn't choose, you might discover how impossible what you're proposing really is.''

Really?


''So let's pretend you can eliminate porn from DarkTor transactions. Do you think the government won't continue to make it's case for spying on you based on terrorism issues alone?''  

 Well why wouldn't they just go and directly spy on terrorists instead?  You know do a bit of real work and follow them around. The government has no role at all, only specific departments within it have real utility and they should be identified.  Everything else and all the big decisions should be done through direct representation, similar to views expressed by Milton Freidman in the video I posted a little earlier on Darkcoin talk.

[cyanez]

R-Ando,

"Well why wouldn't they just go and directly spy on terrorists instead?"

You mean the same way they can go and spy on pedophiles directly as well? Any argument you can make for DarkTor and it's value to society applies to porn as well.

Sorry, mate, you're trying to eliminate car accidents by taking away freeways. You've found a solution in search of a problem. It works better the other way around.

[r-ando]

R-Ando,

"Well why wouldn't they just go and directly spy on terrorists instead?"

You mean the same way they can go and spy on pedophiles directly as well? Any argument you can make for DarkTor and it's value to society applies to porn as well.

Sorry, mate, you're trying to eliminate car accidents by taking away freeways. You've found a solution in search of a problem. It works better the other way around.

Well terrorists probably have training camps for starters, unlike pedophiles I assume....? I am not a specialist in this.


I'm trying to think of a way to best describe it. A popular encyclopedia of consciousness perhaps...

[darkproton]

As far as darktor goes, I think it is perfectly reasonable to eliminate child pornography. If anyone has a host on darktor that has cp, I hope it will not be allowed. I believe it is ok to take a moral stand on issues and not hide from them under the freedom of speech/ well if we ban x then y,z, and all of alpha and half of that is up for discussion. No. Take a fucking stand. Child pornography hurts innocent people. Scars them. FOR LIFE. Don't equate the freedom one chooses to purchase drugs, sell images of their own bodies, etc., to the forceful filming of 4-8 yearolds, or 15 month olds, in sexual situations.

[RenegadeMan]

R-Ando,

"Well why wouldn't they just go and directly spy on terrorists instead?"

You mean the same way they can go and spy on pedophiles directly as well? Any argument you can make for DarkTor and it's value to society applies to porn as well.

Sorry, mate, you're trying to eliminate car accidents by taking away freeways. You've found a solution in search of a problem. It works better the other way around.

r-ando I'm sure no one here would want to discourage your upbeat nature and enthusiasm (the world needs that) but I agree with cyanez, you seem to seriously have hold of the wrong end of the stick about what "DarkTor" will be for and what privacy/anonymity truly means. It's not an opportunity to "rid the world of that disgusting pornography" (my phrase I just penned but unfortunately the nature of your posts and the concentration on pornography are indicating you have a strong distaste for it and and moral desire to see it banned/removed/voted off so "rid the world of that disgusting pornography" is how you're sounding). Your suggestions along the lines of "well there's already the normal Internet for pornography so if we don't have it on the DarkTor, the government will at least strike DarkTor off the list as a place where paedophiles go" is such an unbelievably naive view I barely know how to try to describe why that is and help you realise that.

I think you've completely and utterly misunderstood what this concept is all about. "DarkTor" (or whatever it will be called) will be designed to be completely free, open and devoid of restriction. That means it needs to carry everything and anything without any form of censorship or collective voting. It needs to be "free speech" at its ultimate and enable humans to freely publish, view and have access to anything and everything. Anything less than this and it's a controlled system that no longer assures freedom. I know you'll be thinking "but what about child pornography?" Well to tack onto cyanez's freeway analogy above, we wouldn't think about closing down a section of road when it was revealed that some child pornographers were travelling on it with contraband child pornography in their vehicles would we? That would be ridiculous. Law enforcement needs to use other means to pursue and catch such criminals. Likewise we wouldn't consider banning cars for the same reason just because these same child pornographers used cars.

The DarkTor is to enable humans to operate without overarching monitoring and control by governments and big business. It HAS TO fundamentally be completely private otherwise the core essence of what this is about starts collapsing. Your concepts of voting for content are technically ridiculously cumbersome and socially, a complex disaster where, even with the best crypto signing techniques, all sorts of problems could be introduced to give some types of content (and people publishing it) an edge over other types. It would be unworkable in the extreme and people would simply develop all sorts of mechanisms to get around it. Without even going into the complexities of why it wouldn't work, if there was a voting system, someone would then have to vote on child pornography and by potentially having that image displayed on their device in order to cast a vote, they've effectively "downloaded" it and thereby committed a crime. To even think you could have a voting system is just fraught with so many technical and legal issues it doesn't warrant any further discussion.

I think you need to go do some study on libertarian thought around why the state is such a danger to human progress. I think you're missing much fundamental understanding about what this whole realm and DarkCoin's about and what the potential DarkTor would also be for.

[JGCMiner]

As far as darktor goes, I think it is perfectly reasonable to eliminate child pornography. If anyone has a host on darktor that has cp, I hope it will not be allowed. I believe it is ok to take a moral stand on issues and not hide from them under the freedom of speech/ well if we ban x then y,z, and all of alpha and half of that is up for discussion. No. Take a fucking stand. Child pornography hurts innocent people. Scars them. FOR LIFE. Don't equate the freedom one chooses to purchase drugs, sell images of their own bodies, etc., to the forceful filming of 4-8 yearolds, or 15 month olds, in sexual situations.

Whether it is reasonable or not isn't the problem. The problem is how do you do this in a decentralized fashion. Also child porn is easy, but there are many many things that people will disagree on whether it should be made available.

I am sorry but slippery slopes do exist. The best thing is for someone to come up with a way to prevent certain content from being accessed when using their masternode.