[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Where in the heck are you getting that? Having MNs generate the blockchain would have absolutely no affect on the things you named...?? THe blockchain would be just as visible as it ever was, not that anyone could trace transactions anyway.

Try again.

Satoshis principles of how a blockchain is secured and validated. You just want to let the validation be done by an elitist club of early adopters, instead of giving EVERYBODY a chance of participating in the coin creation. That's what I don't get.

Mining gives everybody the possibility to get to some DRK without the need to go thru an exchange or thru some smug MN holder who thinks he is now supposed to be the sole source of DRK.

I am mining all kinds of coins, so I don't need to go thru the whole established banking system with all their KYC etc...
No bank anywhere has my personal information and knows that I bought cryptocurrencies, EXACTLY because I was able to get to some coins by running a mining machine!

So, if you get rid of mining, you take away from people the possibility that they can create coins themselves, instead you are forcing them to only be able to buy darkcoins thru an exchange, which is INSANE!

Darkcoin is VERY COOL in that regard, because it let's you still mine with your CPU/GPU. (And imagine in the future having X11 USB ASICS that cost 10 $? Isn't that fantastic? Giving some kid a X11 miner as present and having him participate in the network. Ok, maybe in some rich elitist famility they can give some kid 1000 DRK complete with managed server, .... )

If the blockchain were to be validated by MN network only, I would not trust it. Sure, everybody can provide a blockchain, it's not just about its visibility, it's about its integrity!

You have the burden of the proof to show that MN network can really replace mining. Not me!
Such extraordinairy claims require extraordinairy evidence.

+1 georgem

I really can't believe there's another person here that thinks killing of miner's independence is the way to go.
 forward with DRK

If Evan were to implement key generation for anyone owning 100 drk, or even 10 drk, where those keys could be combined to run a masternode with other people... someone would only need to own 10 drk to receive trustless payments. Where does that leave your argument?

Edit: buying drk on an exchange isn't so bad, seeing as how you can anonymize them quickly and forget about being tracked...

[OnetyOne]

Where in the heck are you getting that? Having MNs generate the blockchain would have absolutely no affect on the things you named...?? THe blockchain would be just as visible as it ever was, not that anyone could trace transactions anyway.

Try again.

Satoshis principles of how a blockchain is secured and validated. You just want to let the validation be done by an elitist club of early adopters, instead of giving EVERYBODY a chance of participating in the coin creation. That's what I don't get.

Mining gives everybody the possibility to get to some DRK without the need to go thru an exchange or thru some smug MN holder who thinks he is now supposed to be the sole source of DRK.

I am mining all kinds of coins, so I don't need to go thru the whole established banking system with all their KYC etc...
No bank anywhere has my personal information and knows that I bought cryptocurrencies, EXACTLY because I was able to get to some coins by running a mining machine!

So, if you get rid of mining, you take away from people the possibility that they can create coins themselves, instead you are forcing them to only be able to buy darkcoins thru an exchange, which is INSANE!

Darkcoin is VERY COOL in that regard, because it let's you still mine with your CPU/GPU. (And imagine in the future having X11 USB ASICS that cost 10 $? Isn't that fantastic? Giving some kid a X11 miner as present and having him participate in the network. Ok, maybe in some rich elitist famility they can give some kid 1000 DRK complete with managed server, .... )

If the blockchain were to be validated by MN network only, I would not trust it. Sure, everybody can provide a blockchain, it's not just about its visibility, it's about its integrity!

You have the burden of the proof to show that MN network can really replace mining. Not me!
Such extraordinairy claims require extraordinairy evidence.

+1 georgem

I really can't believe there's another person here that thinks killing of miner's independence is the way to go.
 forward with DRK

If Evan were to implement key generation for anyone owning 100 drk, or even 10 drk, where those keys could be combined to run a masternode with other people... someone would only need to own 10 drk to receive trustless payments. Where does that leave your argument?

That only sticks for people already owning some DRK. So my question to you is, how do you think people accumulate DRK if they dont own any already and normal mining went almost obsolete?
They'll be forced into a fiat/altcoin to DRK exchange.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

That only sticks for people already owning some DRK. How do you think people accumulate DRK if they dont own any already? Not by mining, thats for sure..

Buying 10 drk. Much cheaper than a graphics card.

[OnetyOne]

That only sticks for people already owning some DRK. How do you think people accumulate DRK if they dont own any already? Not by mining, thats for sure..

Buying.

Yes, already edited my post a bit but thats exactly what I'm afraid of. Do you think buying outweighs mining in terms of prosperity/interest in of DRK?

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

That only sticks for people already owning some DRK. How do you think people accumulate DRK if they dont own any already? Not by mining, thats for sure..

Buying.

Yes, already edited my post a bit but thats exactly what I'm afraid of. Do you think buying outweighs mining in terms of prosperity/interest in of DRK?

If mining is not of any value to the coin, and only provides a service that can be better completed by masternodes, then of course. Yes.

[georgem]

If Evan were to implement key generation for anyone owning 100 drk, or even 10 drk, where those keys could be combined to run a masternode with other people... someone would only need to own 10 drk to receive trustless payments. Where does that leave your argument?

Edit: buying drk on an exchange isn't so bad, seeing as how you can anonymize them quickly and forget about being tracked...

I have no problem with buying DRK on an exchange.
I have a problem when buying DRK on an exchange is the only option I were given COUPLED with the horror scenario that only Masternode owners were creating coins.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

....COUPLED with the horror scenario that only Masternode owners were creating coins.

Elaborate, please. I haven't seen anyone mention valid "horror" scenarios, including having butthurt miners.

[georgem]

....COUPLED with the horror scenario that only Masternode owners were creating coins.

Elaborate, please. I haven't seen anyone mention valid "horror" scenarios, including having butthurt miners.

It's not the miners that will be butthurt, they will simply switch to mine another coin.

It's the subsequent death of darkcoin (following such a scenario) that causes horror in my mind, should people like you get their way.  

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

...It's the subsequent death of darkcoin that causes horror in my mind, should people like you get their way. 

And how exactly do you see that coming about?? Miners selling their DRK? Do you not think they do that already??

[georgem]

...It's the subsequent death of darkcoin that causes horror in my mind, should people like you get their way.  

And how exactly do you see that coming about?? Miners selling their DRK? Do you not think they do that already??

[in such a scenario]
Darkcoin will be called FEDcoin or ELITISTcoin, since it doesn't treat individual newcomers the same way it treats its wealthy members.
As I said in the darkcointalk thread. It's basic psychology.

Nobody wants to make rich people even more richer.
Everybody wants to be able to participate in a system that is beneficial to everybody involved and that treats the weakest among us the same way it treats the strongest.
Don't create a gated community and expect large masses to join.

Evan has never disappointed me, and I know he is from the austrian school of economics, so individualism as in "everybody can join/mine" is very important to him.
Accessibility is key.

But you want this accessibility to be restricted, do you not see how this will damage the coin overall?
[/in such a scenario]

[georgem]

If Evan were to implement key generation for anyone owning 100 drk, or even 10 drk, where those keys could be combined to run a masternode with other people... someone would only need to own 10 drk to receive trustless payments. Where does that leave your argument?

Yes, why not, let's make all kinds of masternode deals, I see a bright future in this.

But in the process of this, why kill mining?
Both can coexist.

Your desire is only based on greed, and it's not the good kind of greed (getting wealthy by adding value)... it's the bad sociopathic kind of greed ("Give me your stuff, you useless eater, why do you even exist")

[OnetyOne]

That only sticks for people already owning some DRK. How do you think people accumulate DRK if they dont own any already? Not by mining, thats for sure..

Buying.

Yes, already edited my post a bit but thats exactly what I'm afraid of. Do you think buying outweighs mining in terms of prosperity/interest in of DRK?

If mining is not of any value to the coin, and only provides a service that can be better completed by masternodes, then of course. Yes.

True, if the mining hashrate becomes neglectable using masternodes would be logical. Excluding normal mining would only be a "limiter" at this moment tho.

[myyuxuan]

I don't like DARK

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

But you want this accessibility to be restricted

Being able to generate interest with only purchasing 10 drk is a much lower barrier to entry than building a mining farm ..

Your desire is only based on greed, and it's not the good kind of greed (getting wealthy)... it's the bad sociopathic kind of greed ("Give me your stuff, you useless eater")

Consider the security gains. Is the fact the MN operators make more coin a reason to deny security gains for the coin?

[turk-fx]

I don't like DARK

Dont worry. The feeling is mutual. Drk does not like you neither.

[sergiokkl]

i like dark but makes me lose money, dogecoin is a joke coin but i earn money this month

[OnetyOne]

But you want this accessibility to be restricted

Being able to generate interest with only purchsaing 10 drk is a much lower barrier to entry than building a mining farm ..

Interesting, attracting new people to buy altcoins isn't gonna be easy.
How would you see this interest generated to make up for the loss of mining? Or do you see it as an alternative when most rigs stop mining DRK?

[georgem]

But you want this accessibility to be restricted

Being able to generate interest with only purchasing 10 drk is a much lower barrier to entry than building a mining farm ..

Your desire is only based on greed, and it's not the good kind of greed (getting wealthy)... it's the bad sociopathic kind of greed ("Give me your stuff, you useless eater")

Consider the security gains. Is the fact the MN operators make more coin a reason to deny security gains for the coin?

No, but you would need to prove that security gains do really exist, and are not just based on greed.

You know, miners have a 5 year old history of reliable security. That carries much more weight than Masternodes. Masternodes still have to prove themselves. (especially if you suddenly don't want to use them for anonymization only anymore, but want them to do blockchain securing too!!!)

I am looking forward to what people like gmaxwell have to say about darkcoin now that it is open source. Has he reacted yet?
We need more acceptance on a cryptographic research level before we even start contemplating things like "getting rid of miners". (I am still cringing)

That's why I immediately assume that you must have some bad agenda (I am probably wrong), because you just want to push forward and drop mining altogether... it doesnt make any sense to me.
Darkcoin is soooooooo incredibly young, let's just wait another year or so and see what happens, right?
Only pump and dump schemes need the action to be fast and swift, right?

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

But you want this accessibility to be restricted

Being able to generate interest with only purchsaing 10 drk is a much lower barrier to entry than building a mining farm ..

Interesting, attracting new people to buy altcoins isn't gonna be easy.
How would you see this interest generated to make up for the loss of mining? Or do you see it as an alternative when most rigs stop mining DRK?

Concerning the argument about not being able to mine a crypto resulting in people losing interest... what do you think a noob can wrap his head around more easily.. piecing together a mining farm or purchasing a simple 10 drk and entering his key into a forum/website.

Concerning attracting new people to crypto, the instant and anonymous transactions aspects are useful enough in themselves.

Concerning rigs not mining drk, if the masternode network generates blocks, there is no use for mining.

If Evan created a redundancy of block generation by MNs, it wouldnt have to be activated immediately. We could see that it worked, while increasing MN payment ratio by 5% a month as he proposed. As mining became less profitable, the onus of supporting the network would gently shift toward the the MNs.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

That's why I immediately assume that you must have some bad agenda (I am probably wrong), because you just want to push forward and drop mining altogether...

Slow down. Clear your mind. Look at this picture from 10 steps back and forget everything you know.