[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Ignition75]

Actually, why don't we set-up a series of scam coins and send the profits to the miners and MN operators every quarter.

Darkcoin could remain free for like 5-10 years

Let's start with XCShadowCash

 

In the true nature of all modern scamcoins you really should observe protocol by adding Dark as a suffix.

XCShadowCashDark

That's starting to look more proper.

And there is where my piss-taking ends, I know the SDC designer quite well, he's a top bloke.

[1714484380]

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[coins101]

I'm not seeing how having lots of users mixing counts as an attack or as spam. It's what we want.

i tend to agree.

lets have some human problem solving going on inside the wallets to prevent fuckers from automating mixing, or something to slow down repeat mixing - as its been pointed out - once you've done 8 rounds, your coins are good to go.

[thelonecrouton]

SDC can shove their html5 back up their arses. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmze0KkkAVI

[Ignition75]

DRK Team Tips - Crowd Funding

Over the last few months I've realised how much hard work goes into development and testing by the Dark team and prominent members of the community.  In many cases, lots of personal time and financial resources are contributed to testing and infrastructure of this project.

I'm running a crowd funding exercise for 1 week, as follows:

8th November 2014 - 15th November 2014


DRK Donation Address: Xcd1fuEWooU8QAHDQnpnapqkF9ri8KopNj


At the end of the week, I will be sending the funds to Fernando (Darkcoin Foundation Member) to distribute amongst the team and the community.

So if you would like to show your appreciation for the fantastic work that's being done within the Darkcoin project, please send our unsung heroes a beer or two, I'll get the ball rolling with 25 DRK.

Thanks in advance and feel free to bump this often  

We are at 129 DRK, lets keep this wonderful momentum going!

[coins101]

Fees for Darksend time seem less useful than fees for Darksend amounts. Depending on how many people are anonymising their DRK, 24hrs may or may not be enough, but if you could pay a fixed fee upfront to anonymise a fixed amount of DRK, that would be better IMO.

Solution 1: Fixed Fee Session Model
You enter how many DRK you wish to anonymize and it calculates the fee and will give you access to the masternode network until your set amount of DRK has been anonymized to your requested number of rounds. After that you are locked out and need to pay the fee again to access the masternodes based on how many DRK you want to mix.

This way its a guaranteed delivery of service. However I think it has a major drawback...There might be a way that the fixed fee could be tracked to your mixing input (as its fixed and needs to be tied with your input signature) and compromise your anonymity.

Solution 2: Subscription Model
As I see it the subscription model will just give you a "token" to say you can mix whatever you want for X period of time and not tie your inputs to that subscription hence upholding anonymity. Drawback here is if there isnt enough liquidity during the time period you have been granted, you risk not matching inputs and spending 0.1DRK for nothing. Although talking with Evan the liquidity will solve itself over time as more users mix.

Not sure if ive been smoking too much but let me know if im way off

I'm not 100% against the idea of subscriptions, i guess the foundation can do its bit and get some T&Cs together and limit the network's liability to the fee - you would have to agree to the T&Cs before you could use the service.

But, its moving away from the idea of cash and into the concept of banking.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Hmm I wonder if there is a way to use transaction locking to help with randomizing the fees. Have the number of blocks that the fees are frozen for be a randomized number between 3 and 8. The fee is not spendable anymore and will be deducted, but the transaction is off chain until the randomized amount of time? My brain hurts.

[georgem]

• This is not a bug. A bug is something that is semi-working or is working but can be "flaky." Darksend is currently broken and does not anonymize which is our flag ship.
• Changing everything else around Darksend is wrong and we could irreverently back our self into a corner by taking the easy way instead of and I hate to say it, fixing darksend even if it's rewriting it.

So I guess my thoughts come down to, how do we fix darksend without having to change everything that resolves around it?

I agree.
So it's a combination of darksend-fee and same-amount-of-denomination-each-round that potentially makes it possible to trace a transaction.
We need to make it untraceable again.
If this requires that we add additional layers of mixing to make the darksend process work again, then that's what we have to do.

Surely, the solution can't be to fix the problem (remove the tumor) by ripping out all the "infected organs".

[stealth923]

Just wanted to say in-between discussions that fuck I love this community!

Love the input and discussions that are occurring collectively to solve a problem - even though its complex and brain hurting as hell

[tungfa]

DRK Team Tips - Crowd Funding

Over the last few months I've realised how much hard work goes into development and testing by the Dark team and prominent members of the community.  In many cases, lots of personal time and financial resources are contributed to testing and infrastructure of this project.

I'm running a crowd funding exercise for 1 week, as follows:

8th November 2014 - 15th November 2014


DRK Donation Address: Xcd1fuEWooU8QAHDQnpnapqkF9ri8KopNj


At the end of the week, I will be sending the funds to Fernando (Darkcoin Foundation Member) to distribute amongst the team and the community.

So if you would like to show your appreciation for the fantastic work that's being done within the Darkcoin project, please send our unsung heroes a beer or two, I'll get the ball rolling with 25 DRK.

Thanks in advance and feel free to bump this often  

We are at 129 DRK, lets keep this wonderful momentum going!

129 ... come on guys, we can do better than that !
that is only 1 Beer + 1 Shot per Dev Team member,
i think they are much more thirsty than that !!!
...>

[RenegadeMan]

I don't mean to break up the serious discussion with my silly post but I made this video.

It's Hitler, and he's a little frustrated with setting up his Masternode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bdheH8fRo4

"Don't worry he can still make a node for RainbowCoin"....Hilarious. Good "Hitler" video.

WestHarrison you've probably not had much feedback because we've had another of these Hitler videos just recently. You may not have been here in this thread long enough but there's this legendary and infamous character that's usually here (but hasn't been for about a month now) named Camosoul who's a really wild, out-there, very unusual fellow with a pretty abrasive personality. Some of his views on life, the universe, and everything make your most hardcore Libertarian look fairly mainstream but he also brings up completely out-of-left field ideas about DRK and crypto that make everyone stop and think. Anyway, he had a complete meltdown rant about how terrible the masternode setup guides were, throwing all sorts of wild accusations that they were full of irrelevance and didn't explain the "why" of anything, blah blah blah. It was an atypical rant for him in many ways but probably one of his all-time finest too. Someone did the same Hilter Youtube video with all of Camo's word pasted in and it was one of the funniest things ever given the history we all know of him and the circumstances leading up to it.

 

[georgem]

• This is not a bug. A bug is something that is semi-working or is working but can be "flaky." Darksend is currently broken and does not anonymize which is our flag ship.
• Changing everything else around Darksend is wrong and we could irreverently back our self into a corner by taking the easy way instead of and I hate to say it, fixing darksend even if it's rewriting it.

So I guess my thoughts come down to, how do we fix darksend without having to change everything that resolves around it?

I agree.
So it's a combination of darksend-fee and same-amount-of-denomination-each-round that potentially makes it possible to trace a transaction.
We need to make it untraceable again.
If this requires that we add additional layers of mixing to make the darksend process work again, then that's what we have to do.

Surely, the solution can't be to fix the problem (remove the tumor) by ripping out all the "infected organs".

It seems that's its not so much the fee in itself that is the problem. The problem is that the fee for first round of mixing could potentially provide a trace back to the original address, because it is not anonymized yet. What if the first round of mixing is "free" and subsequent rounds carry the standard fee? Just an idea :-)

Very interesting.
But what are the dangers of mixing the first round for free?
What if someone starts a lot of one round mix sessions, over and over again? With no intention to ever go to round 2?

[coins101]

I've got it.....

Lets merge mine with DogeCoin, and then use the SuperDuperNet unity thing and we can throw snoopers off the scent without having to give up on the fees.  

Problem solved.

I thank you, and good night.

Actually, got to run.  Sleeping on it (not the merge mining with DogeCoin, BTW).

[snogcel]

• This is not a bug. A bug is something that is semi-working or is working but can be "flaky." Darksend is currently broken and does not anonymize which is our flag ship.
• Changing everything else around Darksend is wrong and we could irreverently back our self into a corner by taking the easy way instead of and I hate to say it, fixing darksend even if it's rewriting it.

So I guess my thoughts come down to, how do we fix darksend without having to change everything that resolves around it?

I agree.
So it's a combination of darksend-fee and same-amount-of-denomination-each-round that potentially makes it possible to trace a transaction.
We need to make it untraceable again.
If this requires that we add additional layers of mixing to make the darksend process work again, then that's what we have to do.

Surely, the solution can't be to fix the problem (remove the tumor) by ripping out all the "infected organs".

It seems that's its not so much the fee in itself that is the problem. The problem is that the fee for first round of mixing could potentially provide a trace back to the original address, because it is not anonymized yet. What if the first round of mixing is "free" and subsequent rounds carry the standard fee? Just an idea :-)

Very interesting.
But what are the dangers of mixing the first round for free?
What if someone starts a lot of one round mix sessions, over and over again? With no intention to ever go to round 2?

I started thinking about that soon after posting (and removed it, you quoted it before I did hehe). The system would have to retain a way to tell if the coins had already been mixed once, which just wouldn't work.

Solution is changing denomination amounts per round? This seems like the "real" fix to the problem. Fees could be linked from round 0 to 1, but after that I'd think not. I think Kristov Atlas even recommended using a different denomination set way back when (related to powers of 2).... maybe alternating denomination approaches in each round?

Edit -- sending 35 Darkcoin

Round 1
1
1
1
1
1
10
10
10

Round 2
1
2
4
4
8
16

Round 3
1
1
1
1
1
10
10
10

...etc etc

[salmion]

err what if the fee gets sent to a stealth address?

They would be useful to have anyway for donations/tips/etc..

[thelonecrouton]

I don't mean to break up the serious discussion with my silly post but I made this video.

It's Hitler, and he's a little frustrated with setting up his Masternode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bdheH8fRo4

"Don't worry he can still make a node for RainbowCoin"....Hilarious. Good "Hitler" video.

RainbowCoin will have 1-click RainbowNode installs. Right now you still have to set up your own firewall, I got diverted this evening with fat flying cryptoequoids. Blame vertoe.

[georgem]

A fringe idea thrown in here.

What if someone else   is randomly chosen to pay for your darksend fee?
So you the recipient would owe this guy some money, but he wouldn't know who it is that he payed the first darksend-round-fee for?

And somehow this guy will get his fee payed back after the other guy finished the darksend mixing process?

[shojayxt]

Fees for Darksend time seem less useful than fees for Darksend amounts. Depending on how many people are anonymising their DRK, 24hrs may or may not be enough, but if you could pay a fixed fee upfront to anonymise a fixed amount of DRK, that would be better IMO.

Solution 1: Fixed Fee Session Model
You enter how many DRK you wish to anonymize and it calculates the fee and will give you access to the masternode network until your set amount of DRK has been anonymized to your requested number of rounds. After that you are locked out and need to pay the fee again to access the masternodes based on how many DRK you want to mix.

This way its a guaranteed delivery of service. However I think it has a major drawback...There might be a way that the fixed fee could be tracked to your mixing input (as its fixed and needs to be tied with your input signature) and compromise your anonymity.

Solution 2: Subscription Model
As I see it the subscription model will just give you a "token" to say you can mix whatever you want for X period of time and not tie your inputs to that subscription hence upholding anonymity. Drawback here is if there isnt enough liquidity during the time period you have been granted, you risk not matching inputs and spending 0.1DRK for nothing. Although talking with Evan the liquidity will solve itself over time as more users mix.

Not sure if ive been smoking too much but let me know if im way off

I'm not 100% against the idea of subscriptions, i guess the foundation can do its bit and get some T&Cs together and limit the network's liability to the fee - you would have to agree to the T&Cs before you could use the service.

But, its moving away from the idea of cash and into the concept of banking.

The subscription idea should be a non starter.  How would these subscriptions be maintained?  You move away from decentralization once you introduce entities to manage something like subscriptions for use of network services.

Think about the implications of going down this path.  
 

[thelonecrouton]

Hmm I wonder if there is a way to use transaction locking to help with randomizing the fees. Have the number of blocks that the fees are frozen for be a randomized number between 3 and 8. The fee is not spendable anymore and will be deducted, but the transaction is off chain until the randomized amount of time? My brain hurts.

This is a great idea.

[strix]

I truly feel the name Darkcoin is going to forever diminish the possibility of mass adoption.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg9491295#msg9491295

[...]
Embrace the name, love it and others will love it too  

 

The name Darkcoin is one of the main reasons we have been successful so far. It ignites debate and keeps us relevant, the media likes stories that sell and Darkcoin gives them just that.  Passion positive or negative is good, indifference is the enemy.

The very first contact I had with Darkcoin back in Jan/Feb was looking at insane volumes on Cryptsy and working out it was one of the most unprofitable coins to instamine, which is why I couldn't understand why there was such a high hashrate.  Then I came to this ann and an image I never forget was the first thing I saw, it was a picture of a house burning down, insinuating a house full of scrypt mining rigs and the caption was "x11 runs cooler"...

When x11 first came onto the scene, the fact your rigs ran so cool had just as much to do with stirring the imagination as the name Darkcoin.  The two of them went really well hand in hand, because it's usually nice and cool in the Dark...

Love that meme maker!



[...]

:')

Haha!  That's the one!  It had such a profound impact on my opinion of Darkcoin, I immediately switched the whole farm over and have never mined anything else since.  A picture truly says 1000 words.

OK, now your user-name makes sense! 

[oblox]

Hmm I wonder if there is a way to use transaction locking to help with randomizing the fees. Have the number of blocks that the fees are frozen for be a randomized number between 3 and 8. The fee is not spendable anymore and will be deducted, but the transaction is off chain until the randomized amount of time? My brain hurts.

This is a great idea.

I'm interested in also hearing the viability of this idea, perhaps even randomly holding back denominations as well to go in later rounds.