[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[iCEBREAKER]

That's a good question, but unfortunately we can't discuss it here without being accused of "shilling."   

Because you don't have an answer more likely. Monero has yet to solve this. Another thing Monero has yet to implement is tree pruning, which will be very important for dealing with blockchain size

BTW for anybody who doesn't know, I feel the need to point this out. Monero was created for the sole purpose of implementing Cryptonote. So when somebody says "monero like" ring signatures what they're really talking about is implementing Cryptonote. Monero has nothing to do with it.

Monero has everything to do with it.  Your ignorance is showing.

There are very good reasons why Vitalik wrote "monero-like" instead of 'cryptonote-like.'  You just don't know those reasons.

Here, I'll help.  Pay attention!

Monero has fixed, improved, and built on the canonical Cryptonote implementation, which is called Bytecoin.

https://lab.getmonero.org/

Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future

Publications:

MRL-0001: A Note on Chain Reactions in Traceability in CryptoNote 2.0
MRL-0002: Counterfeiting via Merkle Tree Exploits within Virtual Currencies Employing the CryptoNote Protocol
MRL-0003: Monero is Not That Mysterious
MRL-0004: Improving Obfuscation in the CryptoNote Protocol

You should really try to find out WTF you're talking about before posting in public.

Of course blockchain bloat and possible solutions like pruning/sharding are an open issue.  You think I don't know that?

Monero already uses some clever incentives to discourage bloat.  The idea came from Cryptonote, but it was borken so we fixed it.

Thanks for the update! I'll try it out now too. Maybe you or someone explained this already, but how does the regular update work? Does it restrict tx sizes by denying large size transactions and couple the larger ones with the higher fee? Or are all tx's going to have the same fee you set regardless of size now? What's different with the experimental update 0.8.8? Does it scale on the medium block size or something?

It's a fairly severe bug introduced by TFT. The penalty free block size is the median block size (right now ~20kb), and block reward decays exponentially with block sizes that are larger than the median block size. The maximum block size is 2 * median block size, and as you approach that you rapidly approach a reward of zero. When TFT replaced the old tx mempool getblocktemplate generating code (which had a bug that caused blockchain halting), he made it so that all tx would be included in blocks regardless of the penalty they incur. This is why we're seeing problems now with block reward.

In my update, I have limited the maximum possible penalty incurred to about 9% of the block reward (so at worst instead of 16.5 you get ~15.0 MRO, and aren't penalized any more than this).  The median block size will now grow more slowly.

The ideal behaviour, as proposed in the cryptonote paper, is to only include tx with fees large enough to compensate for the penalty. I'm not sure this would even work as they intend as the incentives are kind of bizarre (it probably incentivizes hoarding tx and not sending them to other miners so you can reap larger rewards). I will be working on a more elaborate fees and penalty algorithm for the mempool, but this will have to do for now.

The severity of the issue may be directly observed here: http://monerochain.info/charts/reward

State of Monero: 2014

May:

- fixed the block reward penalty mechanism and dynamic block sizing

[sangoku]

My God, the troll iCEBREAKER never sleep!!

[Chronikka]

That's a good question, but unfortunately we can't discuss it here without being accused of "shilling."   

Because you don't have an answer more likely. Monero has yet to solve this. Another thing Monero has yet to implement is tree pruning, which will be very important for dealing with blockchain size

BTW for anybody who doesn't know, I feel the need to point this out. Monero was created for the sole purpose of implementing Cryptonote. So when somebody says "monero like" ring signatures what they're really talking about is implementing Cryptonote. Monero has nothing to do with it.

Monero has everything to do with it.  Your ignorance is showing.

There are very good reasons why Vitalik wrote "monero-like" instead of 'cryptonote-like.'  You just don't know those reasons.

Here, I'll help.  Pay attention!

Monero has fixed, improved, and built on the canonical Cryptonote implementation, which is called Bytecoin.

https://lab.getmonero.org/

Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future

Publications:

MRL-0001: A Note on Chain Reactions in Traceability in CryptoNote 2.0
MRL-0002: Counterfeiting via Merkle Tree Exploits within Virtual Currencies Employing the CryptoNote Protocol
MRL-0003: Monero is Not That Mysterious
MRL-0004: Improving Obfuscation in the CryptoNote Protocol

You should really try to find out WTF you're talking about before posting in public.

Of course blockchain bloat and possible solutions like pruning/sharding are an open issue.  You think I don't know that?

Monero already uses some clever incentives to discourage bloat.  The idea came from Cryptonote, but it was borken so we fixed it.

Thanks for the update! I'll try it out now too. Maybe you or someone explained this already, but how does the regular update work? Does it restrict tx sizes by denying large size transactions and couple the larger ones with the higher fee? Or are all tx's going to have the same fee you set regardless of size now? What's different with the experimental update 0.8.8? Does it scale on the medium block size or something?

It's a fairly severe bug introduced by TFT. The penalty free block size is the median block size (right now ~20kb), and block reward decays exponentially with block sizes that are larger than the median block size. The maximum block size is 2 * median block size, and as you approach that you rapidly approach a reward of zero. When TFT replaced the old tx mempool getblocktemplate generating code (which had a bug that caused blockchain halting), he made it so that all tx would be included in blocks regardless of the penalty they incur. This is why we're seeing problems now with block reward.

In my update, I have limited the maximum possible penalty incurred to about 9% of the block reward (so at worst instead of 16.5 you get ~15.0 MRO, and aren't penalized any more than this).  The median block size will now grow more slowly.

The ideal behaviour, as proposed in the cryptonote paper, is to only include tx with fees large enough to compensate for the penalty. I'm not sure this would even work as they intend as the incentives are kind of bizarre (it probably incentivizes hoarding tx and not sending them to other miners so you can reap larger rewards). I will be working on a more elaborate fees and penalty algorithm for the mempool, but this will have to do for now.

The severity of the issue may be directly observed here: http://monerochain.info/charts/reward

State of Monero: 2014

May:

- fixed the block reward penalty mechanism and dynamic block sizing

None of this answers any of my questions. Monero has not found a reliable way to reduce the blockchain size, period. You have alluded to some of the tricks they put in place to moderate it, but nothing they've implemented is a solution. At its core Monero is a cryptonote implementation with a few little quirks to solve some minor issues, nothing more.

Back to my original question though, how does anonymity benefit Ethereum?

[iCEBREAKER]

None of this answers any of my questions. Monero has not found a reliable way to reduce the blockchain size, period. You have alluded to some of the tricks they put in place to moderate it, but nothing they've implemented is a solution. At its core Monero is a cryptonote implementation with a few little quirks to solve some minor issues, nothing more.

Back to my original question though, how does anonymity benefit Ethereum?

Thank you for conceding you were wrong to claim Monero has nothing to offer over plain-vanilla Cryptonote/Bytecoin.  You could be a bit more gracious, and admit the block reward penalty is a reliable way to reduce discourage bloat, rather than being a snipey little bitch and creating a distinction without a difference between that and "tricks to moderate it."

Regardless, your concessions are quite distinct from your previous statement that "when somebody says "monero like" ring signatures what they're really talking about is implementing Cryptonote. Monero has nothing to do with it."

Obviously, you are embarrassed to have received such a spanking for being an ignorant brat, and that's why you are moving to goalposts to a new demand for some kind of final solution to the blockchain size problem.  Never mind that even Bitcoin hasn't solved it; you still think it's fair to demand another coin, with even worse bloat, be the first to fix it.

And your final act is an attempt to completely derail the thread, from the OP about ETH to a general discussion about the value of privacy.

http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters?language=en

http://zeroknowledgeprivacy.org/library/why-privacy-matters/

[NextGenCrypto]

None of this answers any of my questions. Monero has not found a reliable way to reduce the blockchain size, period. You have alluded to some of the tricks they put in place to moderate it, but nothing they've implemented is a solution. At its core Monero is a cryptonote implementation with a few little quirks to solve some minor issues, nothing more.

Back to my original question though, how does anonymity benefit Ethereum?

Thank you for conceding you were wrong to claim Monero has nothing to offer over plain-vanilla Cryptonote/Bytecoin.  You could be a bit more gracious, and admit the block reward penalty is a reliable way to reduce discourage bloat, rather than being a snipey little bitch and creating a distinction without a difference between that and "tricks to moderate it."

Regardless, your concessions are quite distinct from your previous statement that "when somebody says "monero like" ring signatures what they're really talking about is implementing Cryptonote. Monero has nothing to do with it."

Obviously, you are embarrassed to have received such a spanking for being an ignorant brat, and that's why you are moving to goalposts to a new demand for some kind of final solution to the blockchain size problem.  Never mind that even Bitcoin hasn't solved it; you still think it's fair to demand another coin, with even worse bloat, be the first to fix it.

And your final act is an attempt to completely derail the thread, from the OP about ETH to a general discussion about the value of privacy.

http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters?language=en

http://zeroknowledgeprivacy.org/library/why-privacy-matters/

People must really hate you given you're such a pompous bitch.  Even when you have valid points you come off like a smug know-it-all.  I guess that's why you spend all of your time here trolling trying to get people to care about your dying coin that will NEVER reach mass adoption.

[arielbit]

^

ETH to 5000 pages..LOL 

[newb4now]

That's a good question, but unfortunately we can't discuss it here without being accused of "shilling."  

Because you don't have an answer more likely. Monero has yet to solve this. Another thing Monero has yet to implement is tree pruning, which will be very important for dealing with blockchain size

BTW for anybody who doesn't know, I feel the need to point this out. Monero was created for the sole purpose of implementing Cryptonote. So when somebody says "monero like" ring signatures what they're really talking about is implementing Cryptonote. Monero has nothing to do with it.

Monero has everything to do with it.  Your ignorance is showing.

There are very good reasons why Vitalik wrote "monero-like" instead of 'cryptonote-like.'  You just don't know those reasons.

Here, I'll help.  Pay attention!

Monero has fixed, improved, and built on the canonical Cryptonote implementation, which is called Bytecoin.

https://lab.getmonero.org/

Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future

Publications:

MRL-0001: A Note on Chain Reactions in Traceability in CryptoNote 2.0
MRL-0002: Counterfeiting via Merkle Tree Exploits within Virtual Currencies Employing the CryptoNote Protocol
MRL-0003: Monero is Not That Mysterious
MRL-0004: Improving Obfuscation in the CryptoNote Protocol

You should really try to find out WTF you're talking about before posting in public.

Of course blockchain bloat and possible solutions like pruning/sharding are an open issue.  You think I don't know that?

Monero already uses some clever incentives to discourage bloat.  The idea came from Cryptonote, but it was borken so we fixed it.

Thanks for the update! I'll try it out now too. Maybe you or someone explained this already, but how does the regular update work? Does it restrict tx sizes by denying large size transactions and couple the larger ones with the higher fee? Or are all tx's going to have the same fee you set regardless of size now? What's different with the experimental update 0.8.8? Does it scale on the medium block size or something?

It's a fairly severe bug introduced by TFT. The penalty free block size is the median block size (right now ~20kb), and block reward decays exponentially with block sizes that are larger than the median block size. The maximum block size is 2 * median block size, and as you approach that you rapidly approach a reward of zero. When TFT replaced the old tx mempool getblocktemplate generating code (which had a bug that caused blockchain halting), he made it so that all tx would be included in blocks regardless of the penalty they incur. This is why we're seeing problems now with block reward.

In my update, I have limited the maximum possible penalty incurred to about 9% of the block reward (so at worst instead of 16.5 you get ~15.0 MRO, and aren't penalized any more than this).  The median block size will now grow more slowly.

The ideal behaviour, as proposed in the cryptonote paper, is to only include tx with fees large enough to compensate for the penalty. I'm not sure this would even work as they intend as the incentives are kind of bizarre (it probably incentivizes hoarding tx and not sending them to other miners so you can reap larger rewards). I will be working on a more elaborate fees and penalty algorithm for the mempool, but this will have to do for now.

The severity of the issue may be directly observed here: http://monerochain.info/charts/reward

State of Monero: 2014

May:

- fixed the block reward penalty mechanism and dynamic block sizing

None of this answers any of my questions. Monero has not found a reliable way to reduce the blockchain size, period. You have alluded to some of the tricks they put in place to moderate it, but nothing they've implemented is a solution. At its core Monero is a cryptonote implementation with a few little quirks to solve some minor issues, nothing more.

Back to my original question though, how does anonymity benefit Ethereum?

The CryptoNote blockchain bloat problem has already been solved. Monero takes a cautious development approach but at some point I expect they will implement a solution close to the one explained below (which already works):
http://boolberry.org/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf

Pruning is more than possible. It has already been done by Boolberry! Ethereum can also implement pruning if it wishes.

[iCEBREAKER]

you're such a pompous bitch 
you come off like a smug know-it-all 

Your butthurt is duly noted.

[LiQio]

It's very tiring to follow topics when they are crashed by the pseudologist.

But I think the TL;DR is "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete".

(Farewell iCEBREAKER)

[iCEBREAKER]

It's very tiring to follow topics when they are crashed by the pseudologist.

But I think the TL;DR is "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete".

(Farewell iCEBREAKER)

Not really.  A layer approach to security is preferable to reliance on any single platform/product.

And they don't even to the same thing.



See?  XMR and ETH go together like peanut butter and chocolate!

You are just mad because ETH makes your precious bags of NXT as obsolete as flat panels made those heavy-ass giant old TVs.   

[LiQio]

It's very tiring to follow topics when they are crashed by the pseudologist.

But I think the TL;DR is "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete".

(Farewell iCEBREAKER)

Not really.  A layer approach to security is preferable to reliance on any single platform/product.

And they don't even to the same thing.

https://i.imgur.com/yqz2vCz.png

See?  XMR and ETH go together like peanut butter and chocolate!

You are just mad because ETH makes your precious bags of NXT as obsolete as flat panels made those heavy-ass giant old TVs.   

Keep telling yourself that, darling 
I repeat again: "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete"

(Why don't you take your NXT obsession to the NXT-thread? Being intimidated by every altcoin must be confusing at times. Take a nap iCEBREAKER)

[iCEBREAKER]

See?  XMR and ETH go together like peanut butter and chocolate!

You are just mad because ETH makes your precious bags of NXT as obsolete as flat panels made those heavy-ass giant old TVs.   

Keep telling yourself that, darling 
I repeat again: "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete"

(Why don't you take your NXT obsession to the NXT-thread? Being intimidated by every altcoin must be confusing at times. Take a nap iCEBREAKER)

Hmm, I don't know who to believe, you or Vitalik.   

Vitalik is the lead dev for Ethereum, and recently used "monero-like" linkable ring signatures to upgrade his project's privacy.

You are some random die-hard (probably Because Bagholding) NXT scam defender.

I think I'll go with VUB's opinion, ie ETH and XMR can get along just fine.

Why don't you want to see XMR and ETH "play nice?"  Is it because NXT's last ditch attempt at relevance is a coinjoin based mixer that is obsolete trash compared to ring sigs?

[LiQio]

https://i.imgur.com/yqz2vCz.png

See?  XMR and ETH go together like peanut butter and chocolate!

You are just mad because ETH makes your precious bags of NXT as obsolete as flat panels made those heavy-ass giant old TVs.   

Keep telling yourself that, darling 
I repeat again: "Ethereum will make Monero obsolete"

(Why don't you take your NXT obsession to the NXT-thread? Being intimidated by every altcoin must be confusing at times. Take a nap iCEBREAKER)

Hmm, I don't know who to believe, you or Vitalik.   

Vitalik is the lead dev for Ethereum, and recently used "monero-like" linkable ring signatures to upgrade his project's privacy.

You are some random die-hard (probably Because Bagholding) NXT scam defender.

I think I'll go with VUB's opinion, ie ETH and XMR can get along just fine.

Why don't you want to see XMR and ETH "play nice?"  Is it because NXT's last ditch attempt at relevance is a coinjoin based mixer that is obsolete trash compared to ring sigs?

My prediction doesn't contradict Vitalik's statement.

(Again NXT is off-topic here)

[various]

It is pending like that since yesterday, how can I fix this?

Also

I transferred 0.99 Ether to my deposit account, but my balance seems 1.99 Ether. Is this normal or a bug?

[Mrboot]

Hey Everyone,

Anyone know why there is not a normal ETH wallet out just yet ? or did i just missed it ?
How do you all store your coins atm ? cause a exchange aint the way to go atm .

Also did anyone ever counted the max coin amount ? or a approx of it?

Kind regards,

[Abiky]

Hey Everyone,

Anyone know why there is not a normal ETH wallet out just yet ? or did i just missed it ?
How do you all store your coins atm ? cause a exchange aint the way to go atm .

Also did anyone ever counted the max coin amount ? or a approx of it?

Kind regards,

The GUI wallet called Mist is currently in beta stage. You have to be careful storing large amounts of Ether there now that the software it is beta. In the meantime, you can use the command line wallet called geth to store all your Ether as this is the one that it is being used right now because it is stable. Hope this helps. 

P.S. You could also make a ETH paper wallet 

[various]

Hey Everyone,

Anyone know why there is not a normal ETH wallet out just yet ? or did i just missed it ?
How do you all store your coins atm ? cause a exchange aint the way to go atm .

Also did anyone ever counted the max coin amount ? or a approx of it?

Kind regards,

The GUI wallet called Mist is currently in beta stage. You have to be careful storing large amounts of Ether there now that the software it is beta. In the meantime, you can use the command line wallet called geth to store all your Ether as this is the one that it is being used right now because it is stable. Hope this helps. 

P.S. You could also make a ETH paper wallet 

is geth command line wallet ? i am using geth it is working but i can not see my balance.

[Blazin8888]

When will a stable official wallet come?


Suspect any time now?

[mistercashking]

It is pending like that since yesterday, how can I fix this?

Also

I transferred 0.99 Ether to my deposit account, but my balance seems 1.99 Ether. Is this normal or a bug?

looks like an older build. Try updating the wallet. To the latest version.
https://github.com/ethereum/mist/releases

[Longenecker]

Hey Everyone,

Anyone know why there is not a normal ETH wallet out just yet ? or did i just missed it ?
How do you all store your coins atm ? cause a exchange aint the way to go atm .

Also did anyone ever counted the max coin amount ? or a approx of it?

Kind regards,

The GUI wallet called Mist is currently in beta stage. You have to be careful storing large amounts of Ether there now that the software it is beta. In the meantime, you can use the command line wallet called geth to store all your Ether as this is the one that it is being used right now because it is stable. Hope this helps.  

P.S. You could also make a ETH paper wallet  

Why does it matter if you store large amounts of ether in a beta release, so long as you keep backups of keystores?